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Jake Terry tricked me

John,

If you read the entire post, you will see that this snake is living with the president of the NWHKA. If Jake can arrange for an equivalently reliable person in his own city to receive the snake from me, I will gladly return it at my expense. Also, if you read the entire story, you will see that most of the posters on this thread have indicated that the snake should not go back to Jake. In fact, I had offered to send the snake back to Jake at my expense, but he refused, triggering me to start this thread in the first place.

Since Jake doesn't come here and post, he has left me guessing.

Any other suggestions for an appropriate course of action?

And John, theft isn't a term that should be bandied about by gentlemen, don't you agree?
 
Ummm...It's his snake. If he wants to fry it up and eat it then so be it. It's not your snake unless you pay for it. I understand your concern; but could this be more about spilling the news to the president of NWHKA than not wanting the snake in his hands.

If you are really concerned for the snake then maybe approach Jake and tell him you will give him half or a fourth of what you paid for it. If he refuses then PAY for it outright.

IMHO.
 
Mr. Ferrin,
I did read that you had handed it off but how is anyone to know that you scored nothing on the deal, if only the good will of the president of the NWHKA?
As I said I really do understand your unwillingness to return this animal to someone like Mr. Terry but the fact remains, he sold you a snake, as inferior as it was, and you not only refuse to pay for it but you also refused to send the animal back. Not only is Mr. Terry out the money but he is also out the snake you get your money back on the purchase and keep the snake, even if you gave it away. It would appear that you profit 100% he loses 100%.
Think objectively on it for a moment and I believe that you will understand how some would see this as wrong.
 
It was not until Mr. Terry had broken off any form of communication with Mr. Ferrin that a dispute was filed. It seems as though this is more due to Paypal policy than any arrangement made between Mr. Terry, Mr. Ferrin, and the CC company. Why is Mr. Ferrin expected to track down this guy to send back a snake that is better off somewhere else? At this point, what action can be expected on Mr. Terry's part upon receipt of the snake? What are the chances it arrives alive(even if it does...if you know what I mean)?
 
You make good points

Mr. Dove,

I do see your point.

As far as NWHKA, I told Joni Jones, the president of that association, the entire history, and I told her as well that she might only be able to keep the snake temporarily, as I was seeking a refund of what I paid. I called Joni to tell her about the direction the thread was going tonight, and she agreed that it would be appropriate for her to make a statement. Since she is not a fauna member yet, she said that she would prefer to deal with this (registering and posting) tomorrow.

I am glad people are responding, as this is something of a tricky ethical as well as a tricky practical situation. Since Jake tricked me once, and since he showed a disregard for the health of the snake, I am not sure how best to proceed. One possible way would be to determine the market value of a male butter ball python in this condition (fine pet, but not breeder unless maybe surgery?), then hopefully find someone willing to pay that amount directly to Jake (as part of that deal Jake agrees to state in writing that he agrees this is equivalent to having the snake sent back to him). Jake would of course keep all of the money. The buyer would pay me for shipping of course, since I would have to cover that. The net effect of this arrangement would be that Jake ends up with the true amount that the snake was worth to begin with.
 
Jake has been paid. Just because Doug got reimbursed by his credit card company does not mean Jake, a minor, has re-paid the credit company. I mean honestly, what recourse does the credit card company have in trying to recoup the money from a minor?

I personally would not do a damn thing until Jake contacted me with a verifiable receipt showing he has in fact paid off the credit card company with instructions on what he wants done with the snake.

Otherwise Jake aint out anything. He will still have the money Doug sent and the snakes. Then he can resell the snakes again to someone.
 
I think part of Doug's concern is that he wants to be able to use his PayPal account...which he has been told won't happen until he returns the "product".

I understand your argument, Doug...but not why you feel you are in a position to dictate terms (or has PayPal agreed to accept the options you have put forth? Somehow, I would expect that their stance would be you got your money back, return the item to the seller)
 
hhmoore said:
I think part of Doug's concern is that he wants to be able to use his PayPal account...which he has been told won't happen until he returns the "product".
Click to expand...

Then yes I guess he will have to bend to their will or work out a resolution that they will accept if that is what he wants.

I got so tired of financial institutions treating me like they were entitled to my money that I quit using them, other than PayPal and a checking account that has the same $50 in it that I used to open it up 4 years ago.

The bulk of my money sits happily in a safety deposit box at the post office. The day banks actually realize that I am a customer and quit treating me like they are entitled to use my money to profit from then I may consider using them again. Somewhere along the lines the banks have plain forgot who the customer is. If a large percentage of people would do what I do banks would get a whole new attitude..... or government bail out money.
 
shrap said:
Jake has been paid. Just because Doug got reimbursed by his credit card company does not mean Jake, a minor, has re-paid the credit company. I mean honestly, what recourse does the credit card company have in trying to recoup the money from a minor?

I personally would not do a damn thing until Jake contacted me with a verifiable receipt showing he has in fact paid off the credit card company with instructions on what he wants done with the snake.

Otherwise Jake aint out anything. He will still have the money Doug sent and the snakes. Then he can resell the snakes again to someone.
Click to expand...

Iiagree:

I belive it will probably fall on his Dad's lap though.
 
Along the lines of what Mike Curtin posted earlier, what I sent the snake back to Jake, and then Jake claimed it was DOA in an attempt to get back his money (or an excuse not to pay the credit card)?

The only way I would even consider returning the snake is if I could send it to the vet that Jake originally took the snake to, and only after Jake sends me the shipping fee. Then the vet could verify the snake's live arrival, and Jake could p/u at the vet's office.

Have I made it clear that at this point, I don't even trust Jake one little bit?

Jake, step up and say something.
 
It might sound fair, but I'd advise you to check with PayPal before proceeding. If the tracking number shows you shipping to somebody other than the disputing member, they may find you in violation of your agreement.
If you can ship Delta - do that (you'll probably have to cover the insurance, but its only a few bucks & well worth it in this case). Advise Jake to open and check the package there; and if there are any problems, he has to take pictures & file a claim on the spot. FedEx won't let him open the package there, and doesn't guarantee live arrival.
If you can't use Delta - check into Northwest Airlines...you don't have to be a recognized shipper, but I'm not familiar with their claims process.
 
That is a good idea

Shipping Delta will offer more protection from a legal point of view, and is generally safer for the animal.

OK, now I need to craft a letter to Jake, offering to return the snake via Delta.

It would seem fair that I should require that I send the snake with shipping paid by him at the time of arrival - are all in agreement here? Shipping via Delta costs close to $100 now I think.

Then if Jake, in his apparently characteristic fashion, does not respond, I can use that as evidence that he will not agree to receive the snake, which will possibly get me back into Paypal.

Other feedback?
 
My email to Jake

I sent the following email to Jake yesterday at 2:23 PM:

Jake, Are you willing to go to your local airport to pick up the butter male? I am a Delta shipper, and am willing to return the snake, which is now technically yours. My money has been returned to my credit card account. Now I need to return the snake to you. If you do respond [I meant to say do not respond], Paypal has suggested that I just send the snake Fedex, and if you do or do not sign for him, my Paypal service will still be restored. But if you force me to send Fedex, and you do not sign, and the snake is harmed by the trip back and forth, I will post this information on fauna. Doug
 
Jake has responded

Jake has responded and is willing to receive the butter male next week via FedEx.

It looks like this situation is reaching a conclusion.
 
doug-ferrin said:
Jake has responded and is willing to receive the butter male next week via FedEx.

It looks like this situation is reaching a conclusion.
Click to expand...

Well of course he will. He now has the original payment you sent him and the snake to rip someone else off with. He is a happy little scammer. You should be ashamed of yourself, Jake. We will be watching you.

All that aside, I am very glad you got your money back and the use of your paypal account, Doug. Minus several bottles of Excedrin of course. :D
 
My name is Joni Jones and I'm the president of the Northwest Herptile Keepers Association in Portland, Oregon. I have known Doug Ferrin for some time and find him to be honest and a very reputable herp owner.

Doug told me the situation about the Butter Ball Python. He gave him to me with the understanding that the gift was a temporary one until the dispute was resolved and he was satisfied with the outcome. I offered to pay for the snake, but Doug informed me that he expected to recover all of the money he had invested in the snake from the original seller, and so he declined to accept any payment from me. I do not breed animals at this time so I don't realize any financial gain from the snake and am happy to simply have him as a pet. I am also willing to let Doug come get the snake at any time.
 
i would not have givin him the option of fedex myself. delta shipping is in the snakes best interest and thats what should be the most important thing here. if he doesnt agree to take the snake with having to pay the shipping then i would see that as a non agreement of wanting the snake back. he has the money to pay the shipping or did because he sold the snake and got money he never paid back. i would not send it fedex i would send it in what is in the snakes best interest which is delta. he should pay it or he should let the person with it now keep it and be properly taken care of or have it sent to a local rescue in his area. he does not need this animal or any other animals, he doesnt have enough common sense to care for a pet. all this kid sees is dollars and not the welfare of the pets. regardless of outcome i would never buy from him and he will always be nothing but a scamming scumbag in my eyes.
 
The butter male has been received at Jake's house

I sent the butter male out yesterday via FedEx (Jake's preference). The package was signed for, and now I have my Paypal restored.

The net effect of the deal for me was wasted time, gasoline, and the fee for the shipment of the snake. But I have received all of the money I sent to Jake via my credit card dispute.

Jake, you will see several people expressing concern that the snake will be well taken-care of. I assume that you will not try to sell this male again as a breeder, but will disclose the true nature of his condition to any potential future owner. Consider placing him as a pet with your local herp society if they are reputable.
 
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