Jeane Best- River City Reptiles (Bad Guy)

[HowlinGaleDragons]

ugh

This makes me so sick let me tell you this is very upseting for me...

on one side I could have been saved having to see him die

but yet on the other note I wouldn't have had the chance to love the quirky little guy either

So on that end ATLEAST I was able to give the guy some love before his untimely passing Rascal was "My Boy" just as quirky as I can be

 

[HerpOly]

Nicole, copy and paste the email you received last night, along with any others to and from Jeane you have saved.

 

[Chameleon Company]

Nicole,
You have posted proof that you contacted the vendor six-plus months after the purchase. That and $1 buys you a cup of coffee. No emails from 2007, much less within the 72 hr TOS time frame to support your earlier claim. The apparent contradictions, and failure to answer any of the questions about such contradictions, much less support your allegations, casts enormous doubt on your changing versions of events. That this is anything more than someone who cannot own their choices, or deal maturely with the loss of a loved animal, requires more imagination and gullibility that I have at my disposal.

 

[John E Dove]

Ms. Norton,
I don’t know whether you had done so or not, and it may have done no good if she had your email blocked, but one of the first things you should have done was to notify her of this thread right after posting it. We were somewhat remiss for not suggesting it from the start.
This would allow her the chance to come on here with some sort of an explanation for her behavior though I doubt it would have done her any good given the other five long bad guy threads with her name attached to them.
I would imagine that she only emailed you because her good friend emailed her that she had yet another bad guy post on the BOI.

If you still have them I would still like to see ALL the emails you exchanged with her or sent to her unanswered. Not that I am doubting you, but rather to shut up the nay Sayers in regard to her lack of response. (I believe the nay Sayers are counting on the fact that not everyone saves all of their business emails for years and years.) Then, since we know she is aware of this thread, if she has the intestinal fortitude she can come here and respond if she feels anything you have stated is in error.

He was a beautiful animal and I hope you were able to capture his coloring through the breeding though like others here I do not believe that it was the best of ideas to put a newer animal that had never acted right in with healthy stock.
One thing I would do, if he produced offspring from the pairing, would be to hold them back for awhile just incase he had a genetic weakness that could be passed on which allows a susceptibility to this problem.

 

[Cat_72]

Ms. Norton,
I don’t know whether you had done so or not, and it may have done no good if she had your email blocked, but one of the first things you should have done was to notify her of this thread right after posting it. We were somewhat remiss for not suggesting it from the start.
This would allow her the chance to come on here with some sort of an explanation for her behavior though I doubt it would have done her any good given the other five long bad guy threads with her name attached to them.
I would imagine that she only emailed you because her good friend emailed her that she had yet another bad guy post on the BOI.

If you still have them I would still like to see ALL the emails you exchanged with her or sent to her unanswered. Not that I am doubting you, but rather to shut up the nay Sayers in regard to her lack of response. (I believe the nay Sayers are counting on the fact that not everyone saves all of their business emails for years and years.) Then, since we know she is aware of this thread, if she has the intestinal fortitude she can come here and respond if she feels anything you have stated is in error.

He was a beautiful animal and I hope you were able to capture his coloring through the breeding though like others here I do not believe that it was the best of ideas to put a newer animal that had never acted right in with healthy stock.
One thing I would do, if he produced offspring from the pairing, would be to hold them back for awhile just incase he had a genetic weakness that could be passed on which allows a susceptibility to this problem.

Excellent post, sir, you took the words right out of my mouth.

Nicole, did you retain any of the emails you sent to Jeanne at all?

And, I can understand why after her complete failure to communicate with you shortly after his arrival, you would have seen no point in taking pictures of him after his demise....though now you may know that in any business transaction, it can be a wise idea, as difficult as it may be for you. You have to realize that some folks DO just think of these animals purely as business, and do not have nor understand the hard feelings some have when they lose them.

Looking at your webpage, it seems you have some darn nice animals, and have put together quite a quality collection, and I am very glad that all of the others seem to be doing well - they certainly look fat and healthy! I do hope you are keeping in touch with buyers of babies out of Rascal, if they have already been sold, just to be sure they remain healthy as well.

Oh, and my doggie is actually "smiling", lol...

 

[Chameleon Company]

Nicole,

Is it not possible that on a purchase you made in November of 2007, you might be mistaken about when you actually first contacted the vendor with any concerns? Did you type and send this email to the vendor?:

From: [email protected] <[email protected]>
Subject: Male Dragon
To: [email protected]
Date: Wednesday, June 18, 2008, 11:40 PM


I will just repost in the guest book every day Until you contact me, why didn't you have your dragons seen by a vet for 6 month exams or a presale you Guaranteed he was healthy and he died from something he had while you had him. This is not good for your business all animals I sell including babies are always taken to a vet for pre sale exams which are cheap and prevent problems like this happening. If I need to I will post you on Fauna Classifieds as a Bad Guy I will not be put out like you did to me I paid a lot of money for a healthy dragon not one that dies in less then 6 months time from something that could be found in exams. I will begin preparing a post for Fauna if I do not get contact from you by tomorrow at noon I will post it I have never been screwed like this before by ANY breeder.

Nicole

An animal dies of cancer six months after you buy it, and you've "never been screwed like this by any breeder" ? In fact, you also did get contact. Here it is:

From: Jeane Best <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Male Dragon
To: [email protected]
Date: Thursday, June 19, 2008, 10:31 AM

Nicole,

This is the first e-mail that I have received from you about your dragon. I told you that I did not raise that male, he came from another breeder that I bought out.

You might do all the vet check stuff, but my vet doesn't think it is necessary when my dragons are healthy. She only comes out when I have a sick one, and that is rare. I truly doubt that you would take all of your babies to the vet if you raised over 400 per year.

What would you like me to do? I won't refund your money as I have no proof that the dragon died, or when or from what. All I have is you ranting about me cheating you. I only guarantee that the reptile is healthy at the time it is shipped, go look at my terms of service.

Also, I really could care less if you post on Fauna, the people that go there have nothing better to do in life than attack other people. I don't respect the site or it's webmaster as he allows anything to be said about people, including filthy name calling.

You can try posting on my site every day if you wish, but I can always remove the guestbook. Please be adult about this.

Jeane

It is clear that Nicole is truth challenged. Been a while since the truth mattered to a few here. Most who could no longer stand the stench of the BOI have left long ago, or become very infrequent in their contributions. Yet there are those committed to still wallow in it daily, as without this, what would they do ..

 

[shrap]

Bro,
When I saw you reading here, I had to assume that certain things transcend normal communications, like a sixth sense ... LOL ! Hope all is well.

LOL... aint it the truth! Hope all is well with you and yours as well, my friend.

 

[monkeywrench133]

This is from the OP's original post:

He simply went back to his old laying around and eating very little which concerned me so I took him in with several of my males for a 6 month check up I do on all of my dragons this is a very basic exam and the vet said he seemed ok but he was a bit concerned about the lethargy. I began to think "Well ok maybe this is just how he is" and continued doing as I always did, May came around he began to eat even less which made no sense to me at the end of the month he suddenly could no longer move or would even eat so I rushed him into the vet for testing. Upon X-rays the vet found tumors on his spine he stated that for something this involved this dragon was like this for over a year and probably was always lethargic like this during that time.

Couple things strike me as odd here.

1) The OP has stated a number of times that Jeanne should have known about the health issue because she should have been conducting 6 month exams as is industry standard (I must have missed that chapter in the Beardie Breeder's handbook). However, the OP's own vet FAILED TO DIAGNOSE THE PROBLEM CORRECTLY ON EXACTLY SUCH AN EXAM. So, how can Jeanne reasonable be expected to have known about the tumors when a qualified vet dismissed the symptoms as merely the animal's natural disposition?

2) Veterinarians can be sued for Malpractice. The OP's Vet failed to diagnose the animal correctly, who knows if there might have been a hope of treating this animal if the problem had been diagnosed correctly the first visit.
However, when the OP's Vet finds out that the dragon had substantial value, then the seller MUST have known about the problem? And MUST have been trying to dump the animal to make a quick buck? Sounds fishy to me.

And before anyone starts: YES, I am fully and completely aware of Wendy Child's reputation, as well as Jeanne Best's. I personally would never buy from either.

However, it appears to me that the OP's entire argument and indignation are based on statements by an individual who is facing a potential financial loss for misdiagnosing the animal unless he (or she) can divert blame to a third party.

 

[HowlinGaleDragons]

emails

I kept some of the emails for fear things would get worse with Rascal only once did I ever have to save emails besides this but that was not even involving dragons.



This was the first email sent I had some saved on a cd I burned when my pc crashed a little while back.

Jeane,
I have a concern with Rascal I am wondering if you can contact me? This is why I wanted your
phone number from the beiginning if something happens your easier to contact. Rascal isn't eating
right nor dose he seem to be as active as my other males is this just how he is or is thier something
wrong with him?

~Nicole

These are fallow ups...

Jeane,
I tried to contact you yesterday on rascal did you get my email he isn't acting right
seeing he is an adult male.

~Nicole



Jeane,
It's been four days now aren't you getting any of these emails? I'm worried about Rascal
I've been trying to contact you for a bit now.

~Nicole



Jeane,
Are you ignoring me or something? Fine I'll try to deal with this on my own but I think it's wrong
to ignore someone who purchase a dragon and it's not acting right.

~Nicole

This is the last email I sent within the first month

Jeane,
Are you still around? I tried to contact you two weeks ago with no reply please call or email me
you have my cell number.

~Nicole
Howlin' Gale Dragons

 

[Chameleon Company]

5 gold stars ! I am Karma challenged, but that is an objectively brilliant post Erin.

 

[Chameleon Company]

Nicole,
Where are the date/time headers ? PC crashed, but you have those communications ? What of your own vet's failure to diagnose this ?

 

[The BoidSmith]

Good posts Erin and Mark.

This particular condition (tumoral growth) could have been difficult to diagnose. In fact, it's even possible it was not even there 6 months before. I is possible the dragon was not behaving 100% as the sellers would have liked under their care. He was probably not an aggressive eater with them also. But if no other external problems were diagnosed (including loose feces) it's highly unlikely that the average keeper/breeder would take him in for a routine x ray examination. If it was a sluggish eater that should have been disclosed but the fact is that the animal was strong enough to breed for Nicole so it's tough to tell if it was "that" listless. I'm going to assume here that Nicole has some experience with dragons, in fact she has bred them. If the animal was in such condition that suggested it could be used for breeding then he was obviously not as listless as to suggest he needed urgent veterinary attention. For future reference, a breeder who sells a beautiful, breeding age animal, for way under market value:

a. the animal has been done breeding for him/her thus has limited breeding value.
b. has another problem that makes him a problem animal with particular needs.
c. does not fit into his breeding plans (that's your best case scenario).
d. was sold to them by another party which in turn could have been because of a, b, or c above.

Corollary: breeders do not generally sell underpriced breeding animals unless they find no use for them. Second postulate to corollary: ...If something is too good to be true, ... etc. etc.

 

[HowlinGaleDragons]

Thats all I have saved on the CD thankyou

And since you want to get into other things our little Jeane loving friend the vet got a ear full from me and I got a new vet.

 

[Chameleon Company]

Dan,

Again, an excellent post. Regarding the market value, whether the animal may have been dumped, etc, we do have Nicole's own words, which I confess, she may have flip-flopped on, but

.... I paid a lot of money for a healthy dragon

And with regard to this by Nicole:

Thats all I have saved on the CD thankyou

Nicole, I think it abundantly clear at this point that you struggle mightily with the truth. That would be the polite version.

 

[HowlinGaleDragons]

lol

I love how people accuse me of lieing and flip floping, ops I mean only Jim our little Jeane lover friend. Hey Jim welcome to ignore I am taking the advice given by a mature member after reading some of the other threads your on.

 

[monkeywrench133]

And since you want to get into other things our little Jeane loving friend the vet got a ear full from me and I got a new vet.

I'm sorry, but I find this confusing. If you fired your previous vet for being too inept to have diagnosed the problem correctly the first time, why would you continue to trust his (or her) statements that the seller must have known about this condition before the sale?

But my original question still stands: If your own vet couldn't diagnose the problem in a standard exam, why do you continue to think Jeanne could have had knowledge of it? Add Dan's professional opinion that such tumors could have developed within the time it was in your care solely, and I don't see how you have much solid ground to stand upon in blaming Jeanne.

I'm sorry, but sometimes you have to accept the fact that bad luck happens.

 

[LauraB]

Rascal certainly was a looker! Truly a beautiful animal. Healthy and fat, not sickly looking or thin. One would never suspect, looking at the photo, that he was in need of vet care.

I also noticed on your site, Nicole, that you've made note not only of the date of his death, but of TKO as the breeder of Rascal. To that end, he has been through at least 3 keepers, none of whom may have suspected illness.

You stated in your original post: "May came around he began to eat even less which made no sense to me at the end of the month he suddenly could no longer move or would even eat so I rushed him into the vet for testing."
Your euthanasia report is dated April 28. May comes after April. Did you mean March?

You also stated in your original post: "Upon X-rays the vet found tumors on his spine he stated that for something this involved this dragon was like this for over a year and probably was always lethargic like this during that time. I told him about the price I paid he stated with the color and quality of the animal it was most likely the seller knew something was wrong and wanted to move the dragon and make some money while she could."
Basically, that's heresay. Your vet is qualified to diagnose, but not to speculate motive or what someone "most likely" should have known.
You've presented a report of euthanasia (with the Doctor's name misspelled no less!); you've presented no vet exam to prove tumors (although I am not doubting your claim). Additionally, as pointed out, you saw two different vets before Rascal was diagnosed, yet you still think somehow Jeane should have magically known about his condition when even a licensed, qualified vet did not. Odd.

I also saw a previous post where you claimed Jeane bought dragons from a breeder you know and never paid him for them. Again, more hearsay (but again, I don't doubt that). However, knowing that you still bought from her? Odd.

Unfortunately, I have to agree with the majority that after nearly 6 months, the seller is not obligated to reimburse you. That does not mean I would ever make a purchase from Jeane, I would not. Not ever.
I am fully aware of her association with Wendy, her Rankin "problem", her less-than-stellar business practices and shady deals.
*************************************************************************

Is it not possible that on a purchase you made in November of 2007, you might be mistaken about when you actually first contacted the vendor with any concerns? Did you type and send this email to the vendor?

Jim, with all due respect, that email of 6-18 proves nothing. The very wording in the opening sentence, "I will just repost in the guest book every day Until you contact me" simply does not sound like a first-time notification. It sounds more like someone who has attempted to open communication and received none in return.
I believe Nicole probably did try to contact Jeane. I also believe Jeane probably did not respond. Hell, she's not responding now, despite every poster agreeing she owes Nicole nothing. You are her conduit.

~ Laura Bolt

 

[HowlinGaleDragons]

You've presented a report of euthanasia (with the Doctor's name misspelled no less!); you've presented no vet exam to prove tumors (although I am not doubting your claim).

I was given the Euthanasia report like that the receptionist or whoever did that part of the report must have spelled it wrong then corrected it. I was never given a vet report of any sort he took the xrays told me he had cancer and all I could do was put him down.

I also saw a previous post where you claimed Jeane bought dragons from a breeder you know and never paid him for them. Again, more hearsay (but again, I don't doubt that). However, knowing that you still bought from her? Odd.

I did not know that untill after I purchased the dragon from her or I would have never bought anything from Jeane.

 

[Chameleon Company]

Laura,
Have to agree with much of what you say, but not all. As pointed out by others, and I think obvious from your post, its just about the truth. Not conduits, etc. That Jeane sees it pointless to participate here is a value shared by an enormous number of folks in this industry. Not always about "proof" either, as proof seems elusive to some here. What the email is indicative of is that Nicole was having a hissy fit on Jeane's register and wanted restitution where it was not owed. Jeane responded. That Jeane was aware of all the hypocrisy that you have also high-lighted not painfully obvious ?

With all due respect, and in the hope off clarifying things, you state:

I am fully aware of her association with Wendy

Let there be no doubt, for the less-informed reader, that the "association" is that Jeane is Wendy's mother, and that she is tarred and feathered with that "association" every time her name is mentioned in this holy of places. Cheers.

 

[The BoidSmith]

Nicole,

Are you aware how old was the dragon when he died?

Best!