Short and sweet...
Sam,
You just saved me a lot of typing, thank you.
Regards.
Sam,
You just saved me a lot of typing, thank you.
Regards.
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Responding to email notices you receive.
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In short, DON'T! Email notices are to ONLY alert you of a reply to your private message or your ad on this site. Replying to the email just wastes your time as it goes NOWHERE, and probably pisses off the person you thought you replied to when they think you just ignored them. So instead of complaining to me about your messages not being replied to from this site via email, please READ that email notice that plainly states what you need to do in order to reply to who you are trying to converse with.
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Want to get rid of them? Simple. Just become a Contributor level member or above and they will be gone. -> Please click HERE."
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Google Adsense ad revenue for December, 2025 was just $30 over the cost of the lease for the server running this site. So, in effect, the money providing the incentive for me to continue running this site is coming SOLELY from the paid memberships and sponsorships here. Which honestly ain't much....
Jeane Best / Wendy Childs...Beware
- Thread starter Hues1
- Start date
Lizard Lair
New member
A little clarification
The only ADULT geckos I sent to Idaho were Line Bred Snows, and Super-Hypo Tangerines. All of the Macks were juveniles. I sent a LOT of leos, of various morphs and sizes to Mike. Way to many to remember individual weights, and at the time I didn't see any reason to keep track of the weights of the various morphs. I did say that it's possible those juvi Macks grew rapidly under Mike's care if they were receivng a mealworm diet. I feed mostly crickets and it seems that leos grow faster on a mealworm diet. My juvies reach the same size as the mealworm fed juvies, but it takes a bit longer.
VFR!
New member
I did not see anything wrong with Alex's initial post and no I have never spoken with him or done business with him as you have with the other persons in question. His initial post was that someone used his name as if they had acquired specific animals directly from him. THEY DID NOT! I know things eventually got out of hand and maybe Alex lost his cool but where in his initial complaint did he go wrong?
I do agree with Sam that it appears you got on the defensive side from the get go asking questions like an interrogation. Instead of jumping on Alex you could of been more of an assistance by convincing your friends to edit the add to read appropriately. Hope this doesn't get you heated and get on the defensive side with me. I'm hoping that you understand I am not involved with no party here and give my input from an outside perspective. Maybe your relationship/feelings is playing a part in how you view this situation.
I do agree with Sam that it appears you got on the defensive side from the get go asking questions like an interrogation. Instead of jumping on Alex you could of been more of an assistance by convincing your friends to edit the add to read appropriately. Hope this doesn't get you heated and get on the defensive side with me. I'm hoping that you understand I am not involved with no party here and give my input from an outside perspective. Maybe your relationship/feelings is playing a part in how you view this situation.
KelliH
doesn't drink the koolaid
I can understand why Alex would not want his name in the ad. The wording of the original ad was misleading. I think that there is not too much that can be done about this. I see my name pop up all the time in leopard gecko ads, ie "SHT from HISS line breeders". Most of the time I have no idea who the people posting the ads are, and I have no idea if they are being honest about the bloodline of their geckos or not. Frankly, it isn't my responsibility to know if they are being honest or not. I have sold a lot of leos to a lot of people. I am sure some of those people have sold/traded to other people.
My point is that there has to come a time, Alex, where you have to realize that you cannot control this kind of stuff. You are not responsible for what otherws are selling, you are only responsible for what you are selling, and the ads you post. It seems you have become a brand name in the leo world (don't feel bad, so have I), and while it is irritatring at first, in time it probably won't bother you as much. In this specific case I can kind of understand why you are making a big deal about it. The wording of her ad is annoying anyway:
"I keep all my babies in full view enclosure terrariums with real succulents and hideys so they are used to seeing people. We handle them several times a day to insure they are sweet and loveable. No scared / sketchy lizards around here living in enclosed racks!"
and then of course when she states, "Produced by me from breeders aquired from Lizard Lair and Alex Hue." it does seem to imply that HER adult breeders were acquired from Alex and Shelley. The proper way to state it would have been, "Produced by me from breeders acquired from Mike West that are from Alex Hue/Lizard Lair bloodlines." Also she asks for the 4% Pay Pal fee to be added in by the buyer if they use Pay Pal. Big turn off.
Well, it will be interesting to see what Jeane/Wendy has to say on all this.
My point is that there has to come a time, Alex, where you have to realize that you cannot control this kind of stuff. You are not responsible for what otherws are selling, you are only responsible for what you are selling, and the ads you post. It seems you have become a brand name in the leo world (don't feel bad, so have I), and while it is irritatring at first, in time it probably won't bother you as much. In this specific case I can kind of understand why you are making a big deal about it. The wording of her ad is annoying anyway:
"I keep all my babies in full view enclosure terrariums with real succulents and hideys so they are used to seeing people. We handle them several times a day to insure they are sweet and loveable. No scared / sketchy lizards around here living in enclosed racks!"
and then of course when she states, "Produced by me from breeders aquired from Lizard Lair and Alex Hue." it does seem to imply that HER adult breeders were acquired from Alex and Shelley. The proper way to state it would have been, "Produced by me from breeders acquired from Mike West that are from Alex Hue/Lizard Lair bloodlines." Also she asks for the 4% Pay Pal fee to be added in by the buyer if they use Pay Pal. Big turn off.
Well, it will be interesting to see what Jeane/Wendy has to say on all this.
Chameleon Company
New member
Angel,
Nope, I don't need a reason, implied or otherwise, to point out what I see as problems in Alex' initial post, and much of his comments thereafter. I do not see it as a one party right, the other party wrong scenario. I see it as a problem handled poorly, with Wendy and Jeane not grasping what they needed to be more accurate about, or deliberately being slow to change it. With that error, I also believe that Alex made all the mistakes that I have outlined as well. If you doubt my motivation, and want to suggest motives of some "personal" nature, that is your option. I have a very thorough history in the BOI in the last year of looking real hard at the "accusor's" claim in any thread, regardless of who the "accused" is. Others will vouch for me that I have gone to considerable lengths for folks I had absolutely no knowledge of, solely because the accusor was weak or careless or negligent in their position. Seeing how Alex reacted early in the thread confirmed many of my opinions in the matter.
Nope, I don't need a reason, implied or otherwise, to point out what I see as problems in Alex' initial post, and much of his comments thereafter. I do not see it as a one party right, the other party wrong scenario. I see it as a problem handled poorly, with Wendy and Jeane not grasping what they needed to be more accurate about, or deliberately being slow to change it. With that error, I also believe that Alex made all the mistakes that I have outlined as well. If you doubt my motivation, and want to suggest motives of some "personal" nature, that is your option. I have a very thorough history in the BOI in the last year of looking real hard at the "accusor's" claim in any thread, regardless of who the "accused" is. Others will vouch for me that I have gone to considerable lengths for folks I had absolutely no knowledge of, solely because the accusor was weak or careless or negligent in their position. Seeing how Alex reacted early in the thread confirmed many of my opinions in the matter.
ReptileAddictions
The ONLY Reptile Store in
I do not have the time now to read past page 5 so forgive me in advance if I missed something.
My mother (Jeane) traded for these animals with out bug wholesaler’s son “Mike” for my birthday in November. Mike is the care giver of the animals that his father purchases. Trading is something she does often with them with her dragons. At the time of trade she wrote in their running log “1.1 Mack Snows Alex Hues/Lizard Lair (possible gravid) $1500.00 Credit” Then there is the running tally. At that point and still they owe her a substantial amount of $. They have taken a lot of dragons on trade credit for bugs and animals. Let me point out that MIKE is a 15-year-old kid. So in fact our business deals are done through the father after speaking with Mike about the animals overall health, appearance, ect.
My mother and I have emailed and called the family and have not gotten a response yet. They will be here for bug delivery on Thursday. It has been said that Shelly NOT Alex has spoke with Mike, I have no knowledge or proof of that, and like I told Alex- Mike is a kid, and not the one who ultimately did the deal with my mother. Jeane will deal with him personally on Thursday and get whatever paperwork above and beyond what we have that is necessary.
It has been substantiated by Shelly herself that she has in fact traded/sold Mack Snows to the bug wholesaler family. I am going to go far as to claim her now in black and white that there was some sort of promise that this kid made to Shelly not to sell Macks. I am not aware of the exact details of the deal. But the simplest way I can put it is that if Mike sells Mack to me and I sell Macks to the public what happens? Alex and Shelly no longer have a hold on the line and the prices start to drop. The beginning and the end of this here problem. I listed Macks cheaper in the same advertising arena!
As you will see by all emails below. Alex from the beginning was confrontational and in my opinion antagonistic. I did the best I could to try to be professional and respectful and do not feel I was dealt with the same way.
To clarify the original ad, I use a cut and paste very fast version of listing. If you look at the ads I had listed crested geckos right before it as I always do and they are “acquired from” Dragons Den. Not thinking I changed a few words in the ad to describe the Leo and the bloodlines.I have never listed a Leo so I had no form ad for one. Sloppy. And incorrect. Alls someone had to do was point it out to me.
Alex first started to email me at 10:09pm at night on the 17th wording in the ads was not brought to my attention and was never discussed until the end.. The mention of the “wording” of my king snake ad was not brought up or demanded to be changed until an email he sent the 17th at 11:10pm. Then another demand email was sent at 1:01am. He then made the post on the BOI at 1:24 am and never emailed me again. He didn’t care if I met his demands. He didn’t give me a chance to. I the first email around 11:45 then changed the wording at once around 1230 AM and emailed him to inform him at 1:13am. (I highlighted that in red below).Even though I made a substantial change he posted in the BOI a whole 11 minutes later. I showed that I was willing to change the ad (and did) to something he hopefully found satisfactory until I got the paperwork and or Mike to speak with him to make him happy. He could have suggested a few corrections, if necessary, but instead he came here 11 minutes later.
I didn’t find out about the BOI thread from him or until later that afternoon when someone called me on the phone to tell me. I was in Idaho for the whole day away from email.
I have not to date received an email from Shelly asking any request of a name removal, change, rewording, or anything.
I think it has been and still is obvious he will allow me NO association with the bloodline at all. He came to the BOI without informing me in an attempt to slander my mother and I in a community and business we have worked hard at earning and maintaining our respect in.
I feel I have the right to sell these animals in the same manner that they were presented to me by associating them with the bloodline. It is my responsibility to inform the potential buyers that the breeders did not come from him only the bloodlines. And I need to provide the potential buyer with the sources of my animals so the buyer can confirm with them if they choose. The sources of my animals is Not Alex Hue or Shelly and I have not asked either to “Back up” my claims. I at no time was trying to imply they were, although after Alex pointed it out to me, I did realize it could be taken that way. If there was a misunderstanding in my original hasty posted ad, my apologies. It will not happen in the future.
OLD AD: Produced by me from breeders by Lizard Lair and Alex Hue.
NEW AD: Produced by me from breeders by Lizard Lair and Alex Hue. To clarify this statement. I have signed paperwork that serves as proof that backs up my claim of a trade for the breeders that produced this animal. One of which is said to be Lizard Lair and one of which is said to be Alex Hue. I also have direct knowledge and email documentation of the purchase of those animals directly and indirectly with above said breeders. I have no reason to believe these documentations are falsified in any way. The quality and appearance of the listed animal speaks for itself. I will not be backed into a corner and forced to remove information from my ads. Alot of dragons were traded ay a great cost to obtaining these breeders and I have a right to sell their offsping for whatever price I choose for what they in fact are.
----- Original Message -----
From: [email protected]
To: [email protected]
Sent: Thursday, March 16, 2006 10:09 PM
Subject: mack snow female
I see you have a mack snow listed on auction and also at fauna, you claim you received one of the breeders from me...Alex Hue. Please forward me your name and shipping address so I can verify that your claim is true, I looked through my records and dont see any sales made to "Wendi Childs", forgive me if I may have overlooked it in my records.
Thank you,
Alex
www.AlexHueReptiles.com
616-8355405
From: Jeane Best
To: [email protected]
Sent: Friday, March 17, 2006 1:56 AM
Subject: Re: mack snow female
Hi Alex. You are correct , I did not get him directly from you. My mother (Jeane Best) DragonLady did a trade for him for my B'Day present. She has got allot of animals from him over the last few years. He buys large lots usually. They trade beardies for stuff. I have gotten several leos and chams. Their family runs a large bugs cricket, supers, wax, and mellies wholesale.
I know the uncle does the bugs, dad does the distribution and son is the one who is into all the breeding, sons name is Mike West personal email XXXXXXXXXXX that’s all I know. I am not sure if he is the purchaser or the uncle or father is. They are in Idaho.
But she(Jeane) gets home at 1:30 am from work, I will ask her his info. I have been to his facility. He has Chams and Leos only. He has about 40 macks and super macks. He has been trying to talk me out of some of my bold stripe jungles to make one like you have!
The one from you is beautiful! I feed him at midnight, I should send you a photo then. He is 7 1/2" and 71 grams. Perfect patterns. Large spots. I love him! These 2 (one listed) are his first. Since she has laid 2X more. I just set her back to slow her down.
I will email you in a bit!
----- Original Message -----
From: [email protected]
To: Jeane Best
Sent: Thursday, March 16, 2006 11:14 PM
Subject: Re: mack snow female
Thanks for the reply, I hate to say this but I've never sold any mack snows to anyone in Idaho nor have I ever delt with anyone with the last name West.
Sounds really fishy to me, I'm familiar with just about everyone who's currently working with Macks and it just doesnt sound right.
Alex
From: Jeane Best
To: [email protected] <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, March 16, 2006 11:34 PM
Subject: Re: mack snow female
I sent him an email right after I sent yours to ask him for his invoice info on exact purchse dates, seller, ect..
I know they go to all the shows and deal with a lot of people. They sell to all the stores here except for petsmart and petco. I know he wouldn’t make it up. I have seen their facility and his animals and they are absolutely amazing. He runs a tight ship.
If anything, maybe he acquired some of them from someone you've sold to. Like me I don't know. I am only speculating.
I am sure he will get back to me by tomm. But at the very worst case, they delivery here on Thursday and he will be here himself to pick up a chameleon from me.
I will let you know as soon as I talk to him and his response. But I can promise you that no one is in any way trying to use your name to scam anyone if that is what you are thinking.
We have been dealing in reptiles for 7 years now. We know quiet a few people in the circle. Anyone who knows us knows that we spend a lot of $ buying the very best animals out there. We conduct ourselves honesty and with integrity. We don't buy low quality animals, and we don't any animals without a bloodline guarantee. I don't believe in line breeding, so I have to know where they come from.
That’s why I only have the one pair of these. I bought them because they are my favorite besides the bold striped you have made. There are few too little available out there for me not to end up crossing lines if I got into a big project with them. So I decided to breed them just this season to make back some of the $ I put out for them. Then that’s it for me. To date they were the most expensive Leos I have purchased. I plan to up the anny though and buy a bold stripe from you in the future.
From: Jeane Best
To: [email protected]
Sent: Friday, March 17, 2006 3:14 PM
Subject: hello
Hi Alex, Shelly from the Lizard Lair contacted me this morning. And she guessed it without even hearing from me. Based on the closeness of all of us. She sold Mike in Idaho his Macks. So I really have no doubt that he does in fact have your line as well. I am still waiting to hear from him though on who he got them from.
But I am sure she can help shed some light about him and how many quality animals they do purchase. They are good people.
Will email you as soon as I get word.
----- Original Message -----
From: [email protected]
To: Jeane Best
Sent: Friday, March 17, 2006 11:10 PM
Subject: Re: hello
I just spoke with and received another e-mail from Shelly so I know you received and read my last e-mail requesting my name be removed from your ads. This is the last time I will be requesting this in private, if I need to request my name be removed after this...I will be doing so publicly. It doesnt matter to me if you sold this animal or not, I'm requesting one final time that my name be removed from your ads immediately. Your ads give people the impression that the animals you are working with some how originated from me, which is 100% false. We never sold any Macks directly to you or Mike West...and Mike West has not admitted to selling you any, whether or not he's lieing doesnt matter to me either, thats between you guys and Mike West.
I expect you to comply with my wishes immediately.
Alex
----- Original Message -----
From: [email protected]
To: Jeane Best
Sent: Saturday, March 18, 2006 1:01 AM
Subject: Re: hello
You were told Mike West did not purchase these from me directly and you did not purchase any animals from me directly...kinda misleading putting my name in your ads...dont you think?
From: Jeane Best <[email protected]>
To: [email protected] <[email protected]>
Sent: Saturday, March 18, 2006 1:13 AM
Subject: Re:Hello
No I do not think so. Mike West is a KID. He did not purchase them from you. But obviously he has purchase them from someone who got animals from you and her. Oh wait, she is the one who sold directly to a minor.
I acquired yours 4rd party. And hers 3rd party. In a year someone will refer to theirs as being from your bloodline too and it will be 20th part by then. This is what happens when you sell animals Alex. Other people breed and sell them to. It was bound to happen. It seems in your case you have seen it sooner than you expected.
The ad is NOT misleading at all. I didn't even have to bother making that kind of statement but I did out of respect. Something it would be nice if you showed me a bit of.
From: Jeane Best
To: [email protected]
Sent: Saturday, March 18, 2006 3:24 AM
Subject: Re: hello
I only just read your email 30 minutes ago. I sold the Leo before noon. Your assumptions are running ramped again.
I did reword the ad, not because I have to, but because you "asked" me to.
I do not appreciate the tones of all of your emails to me. I have been nothing but respectful and professional, when in fact I am under no obligation what so ever to answer you at all.
I have the right to sell my animals as they were stated to me at the time I received them. I have paperwork of that. You have no "proof" whatsoever that they do not originate from you. The emails you are referring to are from a teenager. Not even of age to negotiate a contract, let alone be the record keeper and final word.
I see that you have bullied others on kingsnake as well. It is obvious in the way they word their ads.
Well, you will not bully me. Do not email me and threaten me. In fact, do not email me at all. I am keeping record of your emails and take whatever action is necessary to defend myself and the sale of my animals. This is my livelihood too. I will not allow you to take food off my table all because you can't stand the competition. At one time I admired you and respected the work you have done. It was a goal of mine to one day be able to actually afford to purchase directly from you. That alone is why you have your panties in a wad. I didn’t buy directly from you because your prices are ridiculously high that very few can even afford to. Now I am selling the same product for a lesser price so other people like me can afford to enjoy them too. I thought you made a line of living art for all of us to enjoy. Now it is obvious to me you did it to line your own pockets and for non other than your own personal gain no matter what the cost.
You actions are uncalled for and harassing! This is the second late night in a row you have been making demands of me. Stop sitting up all night and bothering me. There must be something you can do with yourself!
The ad is worded as factual and will remain.
--------------------------------------------------
Lastly, we were rudely treated by Alex. Then he jumped the gun with his BOI post. The email time-lines show that. As others have pointed out, had his complaint with us, and with this BOI thread, been only about correctly identifying the lineage of the animals from him to us, that would have been fine. Because he also felt it necessary to attack our integrity, question our breeding timelines which he knows nothing about, and then be in a race to post this thread, we are rightly upset. It seems obvious that while he kept just harping on "not selling Mike West any animals", he was also not only in possession of our ad which listed Lizard Lair (Shelley), but also communications from Shelley explaining Mike West. To not disclose that in his initial posts is to be deliberately misleading as he attacked our integrity. Maybe this can be handled better by all next time, and especially by Alex.
Wendy Childs
My mother (Jeane) traded for these animals with out bug wholesaler’s son “Mike” for my birthday in November. Mike is the care giver of the animals that his father purchases. Trading is something she does often with them with her dragons. At the time of trade she wrote in their running log “1.1 Mack Snows Alex Hues/Lizard Lair (possible gravid) $1500.00 Credit” Then there is the running tally. At that point and still they owe her a substantial amount of $. They have taken a lot of dragons on trade credit for bugs and animals. Let me point out that MIKE is a 15-year-old kid. So in fact our business deals are done through the father after speaking with Mike about the animals overall health, appearance, ect.
My mother and I have emailed and called the family and have not gotten a response yet. They will be here for bug delivery on Thursday. It has been said that Shelly NOT Alex has spoke with Mike, I have no knowledge or proof of that, and like I told Alex- Mike is a kid, and not the one who ultimately did the deal with my mother. Jeane will deal with him personally on Thursday and get whatever paperwork above and beyond what we have that is necessary.
It has been substantiated by Shelly herself that she has in fact traded/sold Mack Snows to the bug wholesaler family. I am going to go far as to claim her now in black and white that there was some sort of promise that this kid made to Shelly not to sell Macks. I am not aware of the exact details of the deal. But the simplest way I can put it is that if Mike sells Mack to me and I sell Macks to the public what happens? Alex and Shelly no longer have a hold on the line and the prices start to drop. The beginning and the end of this here problem. I listed Macks cheaper in the same advertising arena!
As you will see by all emails below. Alex from the beginning was confrontational and in my opinion antagonistic. I did the best I could to try to be professional and respectful and do not feel I was dealt with the same way.
To clarify the original ad, I use a cut and paste very fast version of listing. If you look at the ads I had listed crested geckos right before it as I always do and they are “acquired from” Dragons Den. Not thinking I changed a few words in the ad to describe the Leo and the bloodlines.I have never listed a Leo so I had no form ad for one. Sloppy. And incorrect. Alls someone had to do was point it out to me.
Alex first started to email me at 10:09pm at night on the 17th wording in the ads was not brought to my attention and was never discussed until the end.. The mention of the “wording” of my king snake ad was not brought up or demanded to be changed until an email he sent the 17th at 11:10pm. Then another demand email was sent at 1:01am. He then made the post on the BOI at 1:24 am and never emailed me again. He didn’t care if I met his demands. He didn’t give me a chance to. I the first email around 11:45 then changed the wording at once around 1230 AM and emailed him to inform him at 1:13am. (I highlighted that in red below).Even though I made a substantial change he posted in the BOI a whole 11 minutes later. I showed that I was willing to change the ad (and did) to something he hopefully found satisfactory until I got the paperwork and or Mike to speak with him to make him happy. He could have suggested a few corrections, if necessary, but instead he came here 11 minutes later.
I didn’t find out about the BOI thread from him or until later that afternoon when someone called me on the phone to tell me. I was in Idaho for the whole day away from email.
I have not to date received an email from Shelly asking any request of a name removal, change, rewording, or anything.
I think it has been and still is obvious he will allow me NO association with the bloodline at all. He came to the BOI without informing me in an attempt to slander my mother and I in a community and business we have worked hard at earning and maintaining our respect in.
I feel I have the right to sell these animals in the same manner that they were presented to me by associating them with the bloodline. It is my responsibility to inform the potential buyers that the breeders did not come from him only the bloodlines. And I need to provide the potential buyer with the sources of my animals so the buyer can confirm with them if they choose. The sources of my animals is Not Alex Hue or Shelly and I have not asked either to “Back up” my claims. I at no time was trying to imply they were, although after Alex pointed it out to me, I did realize it could be taken that way. If there was a misunderstanding in my original hasty posted ad, my apologies. It will not happen in the future.
OLD AD: Produced by me from breeders by Lizard Lair and Alex Hue.
NEW AD: Produced by me from breeders by Lizard Lair and Alex Hue. To clarify this statement. I have signed paperwork that serves as proof that backs up my claim of a trade for the breeders that produced this animal. One of which is said to be Lizard Lair and one of which is said to be Alex Hue. I also have direct knowledge and email documentation of the purchase of those animals directly and indirectly with above said breeders. I have no reason to believe these documentations are falsified in any way. The quality and appearance of the listed animal speaks for itself. I will not be backed into a corner and forced to remove information from my ads. Alot of dragons were traded ay a great cost to obtaining these breeders and I have a right to sell their offsping for whatever price I choose for what they in fact are.
----- Original Message -----
From: [email protected]
To: [email protected]
Sent: Thursday, March 16, 2006 10:09 PM
Subject: mack snow female
I see you have a mack snow listed on auction and also at fauna, you claim you received one of the breeders from me...Alex Hue. Please forward me your name and shipping address so I can verify that your claim is true, I looked through my records and dont see any sales made to "Wendi Childs", forgive me if I may have overlooked it in my records.
Thank you,
Alex
www.AlexHueReptiles.com
616-8355405
From: Jeane Best
To: [email protected]
Sent: Friday, March 17, 2006 1:56 AM
Subject: Re: mack snow female
Hi Alex. You are correct , I did not get him directly from you. My mother (Jeane Best) DragonLady did a trade for him for my B'Day present. She has got allot of animals from him over the last few years. He buys large lots usually. They trade beardies for stuff. I have gotten several leos and chams. Their family runs a large bugs cricket, supers, wax, and mellies wholesale.
I know the uncle does the bugs, dad does the distribution and son is the one who is into all the breeding, sons name is Mike West personal email XXXXXXXXXXX that’s all I know. I am not sure if he is the purchaser or the uncle or father is. They are in Idaho.
But she(Jeane) gets home at 1:30 am from work, I will ask her his info. I have been to his facility. He has Chams and Leos only. He has about 40 macks and super macks. He has been trying to talk me out of some of my bold stripe jungles to make one like you have!
The one from you is beautiful! I feed him at midnight, I should send you a photo then. He is 7 1/2" and 71 grams. Perfect patterns. Large spots. I love him! These 2 (one listed) are his first. Since she has laid 2X more. I just set her back to slow her down.
I will email you in a bit!
----- Original Message -----
From: [email protected]
To: Jeane Best
Sent: Thursday, March 16, 2006 11:14 PM
Subject: Re: mack snow female
Thanks for the reply, I hate to say this but I've never sold any mack snows to anyone in Idaho nor have I ever delt with anyone with the last name West.
Sounds really fishy to me, I'm familiar with just about everyone who's currently working with Macks and it just doesnt sound right.
Alex
From: Jeane Best
To: [email protected] <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, March 16, 2006 11:34 PM
Subject: Re: mack snow female
I sent him an email right after I sent yours to ask him for his invoice info on exact purchse dates, seller, ect..
I know they go to all the shows and deal with a lot of people. They sell to all the stores here except for petsmart and petco. I know he wouldn’t make it up. I have seen their facility and his animals and they are absolutely amazing. He runs a tight ship.
If anything, maybe he acquired some of them from someone you've sold to. Like me I don't know. I am only speculating.
I am sure he will get back to me by tomm. But at the very worst case, they delivery here on Thursday and he will be here himself to pick up a chameleon from me.
I will let you know as soon as I talk to him and his response. But I can promise you that no one is in any way trying to use your name to scam anyone if that is what you are thinking.
We have been dealing in reptiles for 7 years now. We know quiet a few people in the circle. Anyone who knows us knows that we spend a lot of $ buying the very best animals out there. We conduct ourselves honesty and with integrity. We don't buy low quality animals, and we don't any animals without a bloodline guarantee. I don't believe in line breeding, so I have to know where they come from.
That’s why I only have the one pair of these. I bought them because they are my favorite besides the bold striped you have made. There are few too little available out there for me not to end up crossing lines if I got into a big project with them. So I decided to breed them just this season to make back some of the $ I put out for them. Then that’s it for me. To date they were the most expensive Leos I have purchased. I plan to up the anny though and buy a bold stripe from you in the future.
From: Jeane Best
To: [email protected]
Sent: Friday, March 17, 2006 3:14 PM
Subject: hello
Hi Alex, Shelly from the Lizard Lair contacted me this morning. And she guessed it without even hearing from me. Based on the closeness of all of us. She sold Mike in Idaho his Macks. So I really have no doubt that he does in fact have your line as well. I am still waiting to hear from him though on who he got them from.
But I am sure she can help shed some light about him and how many quality animals they do purchase. They are good people.
Will email you as soon as I get word.
----- Original Message -----
From: [email protected]
To: Jeane Best
Sent: Friday, March 17, 2006 11:10 PM
Subject: Re: hello
I just spoke with and received another e-mail from Shelly so I know you received and read my last e-mail requesting my name be removed from your ads. This is the last time I will be requesting this in private, if I need to request my name be removed after this...I will be doing so publicly. It doesnt matter to me if you sold this animal or not, I'm requesting one final time that my name be removed from your ads immediately. Your ads give people the impression that the animals you are working with some how originated from me, which is 100% false. We never sold any Macks directly to you or Mike West...and Mike West has not admitted to selling you any, whether or not he's lieing doesnt matter to me either, thats between you guys and Mike West.
I expect you to comply with my wishes immediately.
Alex
----- Original Message -----
From: [email protected]
To: Jeane Best
Sent: Saturday, March 18, 2006 1:01 AM
Subject: Re: hello
You were told Mike West did not purchase these from me directly and you did not purchase any animals from me directly...kinda misleading putting my name in your ads...dont you think?
From: Jeane Best <[email protected]>
To: [email protected] <[email protected]>
Sent: Saturday, March 18, 2006 1:13 AM
Subject: Re:Hello
No I do not think so. Mike West is a KID. He did not purchase them from you. But obviously he has purchase them from someone who got animals from you and her. Oh wait, she is the one who sold directly to a minor.
I acquired yours 4rd party. And hers 3rd party. In a year someone will refer to theirs as being from your bloodline too and it will be 20th part by then. This is what happens when you sell animals Alex. Other people breed and sell them to. It was bound to happen. It seems in your case you have seen it sooner than you expected.
The ad is NOT misleading at all. I didn't even have to bother making that kind of statement but I did out of respect. Something it would be nice if you showed me a bit of.
From: Jeane Best
To: [email protected]
Sent: Saturday, March 18, 2006 3:24 AM
Subject: Re: hello
I only just read your email 30 minutes ago. I sold the Leo before noon. Your assumptions are running ramped again.
I did reword the ad, not because I have to, but because you "asked" me to.
I do not appreciate the tones of all of your emails to me. I have been nothing but respectful and professional, when in fact I am under no obligation what so ever to answer you at all.
I have the right to sell my animals as they were stated to me at the time I received them. I have paperwork of that. You have no "proof" whatsoever that they do not originate from you. The emails you are referring to are from a teenager. Not even of age to negotiate a contract, let alone be the record keeper and final word.
I see that you have bullied others on kingsnake as well. It is obvious in the way they word their ads.
Well, you will not bully me. Do not email me and threaten me. In fact, do not email me at all. I am keeping record of your emails and take whatever action is necessary to defend myself and the sale of my animals. This is my livelihood too. I will not allow you to take food off my table all because you can't stand the competition. At one time I admired you and respected the work you have done. It was a goal of mine to one day be able to actually afford to purchase directly from you. That alone is why you have your panties in a wad. I didn’t buy directly from you because your prices are ridiculously high that very few can even afford to. Now I am selling the same product for a lesser price so other people like me can afford to enjoy them too. I thought you made a line of living art for all of us to enjoy. Now it is obvious to me you did it to line your own pockets and for non other than your own personal gain no matter what the cost.
You actions are uncalled for and harassing! This is the second late night in a row you have been making demands of me. Stop sitting up all night and bothering me. There must be something you can do with yourself!
The ad is worded as factual and will remain.
--------------------------------------------------
Lastly, we were rudely treated by Alex. Then he jumped the gun with his BOI post. The email time-lines show that. As others have pointed out, had his complaint with us, and with this BOI thread, been only about correctly identifying the lineage of the animals from him to us, that would have been fine. Because he also felt it necessary to attack our integrity, question our breeding timelines which he knows nothing about, and then be in a race to post this thread, we are rightly upset. It seems obvious that while he kept just harping on "not selling Mike West any animals", he was also not only in possession of our ad which listed Lizard Lair (Shelley), but also communications from Shelley explaining Mike West. To not disclose that in his initial posts is to be deliberately misleading as he attacked our integrity. Maybe this can be handled better by all next time, and especially by Alex.
Wendy Childs
ReptileAddictions
The ONLY Reptile Store in
Also to clairyfy something Alex clipped from my email. I intended to find out what paperwork and reciepts Mike and his Father might have gotten from Shelly. That is what I was going to show Alex once I spoke with Mike. But as said I have not spoke with Mike. But Shelly has already acnowledged that she sent Mike Lots of Geckos. Including Mack Snows.
Alex never asked me to see my log book/reciepts or anything else.
When I said "the one from you" discussing the male breeder, I meant the male is the one with the Alex Hues bloodline. The female is said to be Lizard Lair blooodline.
Alex never asked me to see my log book/reciepts or anything else.
When I said "the one from you" discussing the male breeder, I meant the male is the one with the Alex Hues bloodline. The female is said to be Lizard Lair blooodline.
ReptileAddictions
The ONLY Reptile Store in
Alex first started to email me at 10:09pm at night on the 17th wording in the ads was not brought to my attention and was never discussed until the end.. The mention of the “wording” of my king snake ad was not brought up or demanded to be changed until an email he sent the 18th at 11:10pm.
TYPO!!!!!!!!!!IT IS THE 18th AS SEEN IN THE EMALS. A whole 24 hours after he started emailing me he mentioned his name in the ad be removed.
TYPO!!!!!!!!!!IT IS THE 18th AS SEEN IN THE EMALS. A whole 24 hours after he started emailing me he mentioned his name in the ad be removed.
Gecko_Den
New member
Wendy, the problem as I see it is that in your explanation and your e-mail you properly phrase it as bloodlines, but in the actual ad you say that one of the breeders is from Alex, not from his blood lines. You even go on to lecture him about future generations being referred to as his bloodlines, etc....
While Alex may have been a bit impatient in the e-mails to you, I didn't really see them as rude, if anything some of your response e-mails were condescending and aggressive in nature.
As for your updated ad, that was about as unprofessional an ad as I have ever seen. Rather than adding a bunch of rhetoric regarding your rights and how you refused to be bullied, simply changing the ad to read "Hues line Mack snows" would have nipped this entire episode in the bud.
As a buyer seeing an ad where the seller dedicates an entire paragraph to how they can prove the lineage despite what some unnamed person may think further adds validity to these mysterious claims and throws up an immediate red flag.
In the end you and Alex could have both handled things better, once both parties started to take things personal the whole situation spiraled out of control.
Hopefully valuable lessons were learned by all witnesses to this train wreck, somehow though I get the impression that this isn't the end of this soap opera...
While Alex may have been a bit impatient in the e-mails to you, I didn't really see them as rude, if anything some of your response e-mails were condescending and aggressive in nature.
As for your updated ad, that was about as unprofessional an ad as I have ever seen. Rather than adding a bunch of rhetoric regarding your rights and how you refused to be bullied, simply changing the ad to read "Hues line Mack snows" would have nipped this entire episode in the bud.
As a buyer seeing an ad where the seller dedicates an entire paragraph to how they can prove the lineage despite what some unnamed person may think further adds validity to these mysterious claims and throws up an immediate red flag.
In the end you and Alex could have both handled things better, once both parties started to take things personal the whole situation spiraled out of control.
Hopefully valuable lessons were learned by all witnesses to this train wreck, somehow though I get the impression that this isn't the end of this soap opera...
ReptileAddictions
The ONLY Reptile Store in
So the fact that he asked me to change the ad 2 times in the middle of the night , didnt give me time to even reply, then posted here in 14 minutes is simply overlooked? He wasnt honest about any that at all.
My english in the middle of the wee hours of 2am could have been better sure, he could have just said that too. When I sat down awake and able to make sense of it I rewoeded it.
Point is at no time did I say I would'nt. Out of nowhere I got 2 nasty emails in a row within minutes of each other demanding me to do so at the crack of dawn. Still I did it.
The ads are chenged again and have been.
My only fault is of bad wording and a typo. Had someone just said hey look at what the ad says, it would have been a simple fix!
My english in the middle of the wee hours of 2am could have been better sure, he could have just said that too. When I sat down awake and able to make sense of it I rewoeded it.
Point is at no time did I say I would'nt. Out of nowhere I got 2 nasty emails in a row within minutes of each other demanding me to do so at the crack of dawn. Still I did it.
The ads are chenged again and have been.
My only fault is of bad wording and a typo. Had someone just said hey look at what the ad says, it would have been a simple fix!
Hues1
New member
Heres the issue I have had with your ads ever since I had a customer e-mail me asking to verify whether or not you were working with aniamls from me directly....
1. Your ads dont say anything about "bloodlines" or lineage, they simply say "acquired from" which as I told you from the beginning makes it sound as if they were directly from me.
2. I told you Mike West did not purchase any animals from me directly.
3. All of the animals sent to Mike West from Shelly were produced by Shelly and not me.
4. The only adult animals Shelly sent to Mike West were LINEBRED snows.
5. You claim you traded for your adult Mack breeders and that they may have been "possibly gravid".
6. The Actual Mack Snows Shelly Sent to Mike were 20 or so grams.
Now do you see why I asked you to remove my name from your ads? although my name should not have been in them anyway?
1. Your ads dont say anything about "bloodlines" or lineage, they simply say "acquired from" which as I told you from the beginning makes it sound as if they were directly from me.
2. I told you Mike West did not purchase any animals from me directly.
3. All of the animals sent to Mike West from Shelly were produced by Shelly and not me.
4. The only adult animals Shelly sent to Mike West were LINEBRED snows.
5. You claim you traded for your adult Mack breeders and that they may have been "possibly gravid".
6. The Actual Mack Snows Shelly Sent to Mike were 20 or so grams.
Now do you see why I asked you to remove my name from your ads? although my name should not have been in them anyway?
Hues1
New member
Lets get something straight....I never asked you to reword your ads, I simply asked that my name be removed from your ads.
I sent you e-mails asking for my name to be removed twice BEFORE you re-listed your ad on Kingsnake, instead of simply just removing my name altogether which is what I had asked for, you opted to relist/reword that ad with my name still intact within the ad.
You knew full well prior to relisting that kingsnake ad that I wished to have my name removed from it for the reasons I posted above.
I sent you e-mails asking for my name to be removed twice BEFORE you re-listed your ad on Kingsnake, instead of simply just removing my name altogether which is what I had asked for, you opted to relist/reword that ad with my name still intact within the ad.
You knew full well prior to relisting that kingsnake ad that I wished to have my name removed from it for the reasons I posted above.
ReptileAddictions
The ONLY Reptile Store in
Tell the truth now....................
1. Your ads didn't say anything about "bloodlines" or lineage, they simply say "acquired from" which as I told you from the beginning makes it sound as if they were directly from me.
-----Correct and I publically apologized for my typo. Why didn't you just point that out to me from your first email? You never said anything about how I had worded the ad. I was UNAWARE of the error.-------
2. I told you Mike West did not purchase any animals from me directly.
-------I NEVER said he did.-------------------
3. All of the animals sent to Mike West from Shelly were produced by Shelly and not me.
--------------From your bloodline----------which is all I meant to say if someone would have just pointed out the error to me...........
4. The only adult animals Shelly sent to Mike West were LINEBRED snows.
---------That in a total UNTRUTH read what she herself posted. She DID send him Macks, she did NOT weigh them, and if he feed them meallies they could have in fact been big enough to breed---SHE SAID THAT HERE!------------------
5. You claim you traded for your adult Mack breeders and that they may have been "possibly gravid".
------------Correct. And she was. You do see the baby Leo right?????-------
6. The Actual Mack Snows Shelly Sent to Mike were 20 or so grams.
----------Your point? She later posted she is guessing weights and they may have been breed by the time that I received them------Again Alex, SHE SAID THAT!-----------
Now do you see why I asked you to remove my name from your ads? although my name should not have been in them anyway?
----------I see that my error should have been pointed out to me about my wording in the ad. YES. Then I would have changed it at once. You NEVER pointed out to me that I had the ad worded wrong! You just flipped on me out of nowhere and demanded the removal of the name all in 14 minutes. I had to read here that there was a error in the ad. Then you bombarded over here and STILL continue to make false claims. READ THE THREAD! Good Grief! Are you reading what you are saying?
1. Your ads didn't say anything about "bloodlines" or lineage, they simply say "acquired from" which as I told you from the beginning makes it sound as if they were directly from me.
-----Correct and I publically apologized for my typo. Why didn't you just point that out to me from your first email? You never said anything about how I had worded the ad. I was UNAWARE of the error.-------
2. I told you Mike West did not purchase any animals from me directly.
-------I NEVER said he did.-------------------
3. All of the animals sent to Mike West from Shelly were produced by Shelly and not me.
--------------From your bloodline----------which is all I meant to say if someone would have just pointed out the error to me...........
4. The only adult animals Shelly sent to Mike West were LINEBRED snows.
---------That in a total UNTRUTH read what she herself posted. She DID send him Macks, she did NOT weigh them, and if he feed them meallies they could have in fact been big enough to breed---SHE SAID THAT HERE!------------------
5. You claim you traded for your adult Mack breeders and that they may have been "possibly gravid".
------------Correct. And she was. You do see the baby Leo right?????-------
6. The Actual Mack Snows Shelly Sent to Mike were 20 or so grams.
----------Your point? She later posted she is guessing weights and they may have been breed by the time that I received them------Again Alex, SHE SAID THAT!-----------
Now do you see why I asked you to remove my name from your ads? although my name should not have been in them anyway?
----------I see that my error should have been pointed out to me about my wording in the ad. YES. Then I would have changed it at once. You NEVER pointed out to me that I had the ad worded wrong! You just flipped on me out of nowhere and demanded the removal of the name all in 14 minutes. I had to read here that there was a error in the ad. Then you bombarded over here and STILL continue to make false claims. READ THE THREAD! Good Grief! Are you reading what you are saying?
ReptileAddictions
The ONLY Reptile Store in
Ya lets get that straight, you sent e- mails and you are ASSUMING I had read them. But you say you were re listing on Kingsnake. .....
Did it ever occurred to you that I was doing EXACTLY what you just said? I was on line re listing all my ads.
You know as well as I do that you do not see the full ad when re listing just the title. I STILL did not know there was an error.
I read the emails after I was done working. See when I replied?????????
You admit here that you never motioned the wording of the ad to me, but yet you come here and make this whole scene???? How unprofessional.
Did it ever occurred to you that I was doing EXACTLY what you just said? I was on line re listing all my ads.
You know as well as I do that you do not see the full ad when re listing just the title. I STILL did not know there was an error.
I read the emails after I was done working. See when I replied?????????
You admit here that you never motioned the wording of the ad to me, but yet you come here and make this whole scene???? How unprofessional.
ReptileAddictions
The ONLY Reptile Store in
I have nothing further to say. I have made my point. I made an error that is it. You made a false thread. You are unprofessional at best. You should be embarrassed you started this thread.
This is what you love to do is start wars with anyone who is selling animals like you let alone lower than you.It is apparent in every wording of every ad for Mack's on Kingsnake. You are a bully. I am not going to stoop to your level.
Alls I can say is get used to it Alex. I am here to stay. I am honest and patient. Two things you are not.
This is what you love to do is start wars with anyone who is selling animals like you let alone lower than you.It is apparent in every wording of every ad for Mack's on Kingsnake. You are a bully. I am not going to stoop to your level.
Alls I can say is get used to it Alex. I am here to stay. I am honest and patient. Two things you are not.
Hues1
New member
This is quoted from your Kingsnake ad that you re-worded.....
Would you please explain to me me how that is possible if all the animals Shelly sent to Mike West were produced by Shelly....asin non of those animals were porduced by me.
Would you please explain to me me how that is possible if all the animals Shelly sent to Mike West were produced by Shelly....asin non of those animals were porduced by me.
Lizard Lair
New member
I just want to clear a couple of things: First - I said this earlier, but it must have been missed. I never told Mike what he can and can't do with geckos that I sold him. That's ridiculous, who in their right mind would dictate to a customer what to do with their purchase? Second - none of the Macks that went to Mike were close to breeding size. 20 grams is an average number. Of the juvenile Macks, line breds, and SHT's sent to Mike the weights varied between 15 grams to 30 grams. It's also a big maybe that with heavy feeding the leos could grow very quickly. I am not saying that happened, only that it is possible.
Hues1
New member
Thanks for clarifying that Shelly.
Chameleon Company
New member
You were in a good position to know Shelley. Seems a few other posts were in a rush to misstate what you had to say on more than one occasion, and couldn't hurry fast enough to try to cast doubt on someone else's animals. Sam got it right .... train wreck.
Dennis Hultman
New member
spokanelizardlady said:I have nothing further to say. I have made my point. I made an error that is it.
I am honest and patient. Two things you are not.
Wendy, Since you’re done posting, I would like you to consider a suggestion. Someone already mentioned it but you didn’t respond to it.
Please read your contract with PayPal
I don’t understand why this is such a big deal for some sellers. Figure your costs into the asking price. It's just bad business to tell your customer(s) that you’re going to tack on another 4%.