Jeane Best / Wendy Childs...Beware

[Gecko_Den]

Wendy, I'm going to stray a bit off topic here, but since you brought up professionalism, I was curious if you could clear something up for me regarding the wording in one of your ads in Alex's first post:

You state "Paypal can be accepted to [email protected] IF you add in the 4% fee they charge to the total amount of the auction".

Two things about this statement bother me.

1. Where did you get the 4% number from, as PayPal charges 2.9% or less for transactions.

2. Charging the customer for using Paypal is in violation of their T.O.S. as well as illegal in many states.

From PayPals website:
No Surcharges. Under Visa, MasterCard, Discover and American Express regulations and the laws of several states, including California, merchants may not charge a fee to the buyer for accepting credit card payments (often called a "surcharge"). You agree that you will not impose a surcharge or any other fee for accepting PayPal as payment. This restriction does not prevent you from imposing a handling fee in connection with the sale of goods or services, as long as the handling fee does not operate as a surcharge (in other words, the handling fee for transactions paid through PayPal may not be higher than the handling fee for transactions paid through other payment methods).

If you didn't read the users agreement on your PayPal account, might I suggest that you remove that from your ads and discontinue charging for the use of Paypal in the future? Just a bit of friendly advice, in case you were unaware of the policy.

 

[Gecko_Den]

Wendy, I'm going to stray a bit off topic here, but since you brought up professionalism, I was curious if you could clear something up for me regarding the wording in one of your ads in Alex's first post:

You state "Paypal can be accepted to [email protected] IF you add in the 4% fee they charge to the total amount of the auction".

Two things about this statement bother me.

1. Where did you get the 4% number from, as PayPal charges 2.9% or less for transactions.

2. Charging the customer for using Paypal is in violation of their T.O.S. as well as illegal in many states.

From PayPals website:
No Surcharges. Under Visa, MasterCard, Discover and American Express regulations and the laws of several states, including California, merchants may not charge a fee to the buyer for accepting credit card payments (often called a "surcharge"). You agree that you will not impose a surcharge or any other fee for accepting PayPal as payment. This restriction does not prevent you from imposing a handling fee in connection with the sale of goods or services, as long as the handling fee does not operate as a surcharge (in other words, the handling fee for transactions paid through PayPal may not be higher than the handling fee for transactions paid through other payment methods).

If you didn't read the users agreement on your PayPal account, might I suggest that you remove that from your ads and discontinue charging for the use of Paypal in the future? Just a bit of friendly advice, in case you were unaware of the policy.

LOL, Dennis you were reading my mind, imagine my surprise when i hit post and then saw your post above mine, nearly verbatim....

 

[ReptileAddictions]

This is completely OFF TOPIC, I shouldn't bother risking my points answering and will not after this. I have made a standard reply if anyone cares to message me about paypal.
I guess since I am at it............ALEX, what I keep saying over and over is that "WHEN I speak to the West's I will let you know what he said as to your bloodline".
But isn't it fact that Shelly has your bloodline????? So again isn't it probable that when he gave my mom the "bloodlines" that they might be both produced by her? Making me 3rd and 4th generation owner?

I have a bold strip jungle I got from hot geckos 4 weeks ago that went from 24 grams to 52. I have pics and the seller to prove it I send all my sellers pic updates! The Snow Mack breeders are now Male 79 grams and female 57 grams. I can also prove that.
If you would like to start a thread somewhere about the overall health and happiness of an animal in a more natural enviornment with a large array of food verses a rack system and 1 or 2 staples only I would be more than happy to participate!

But for now the topic was that I was asked multiple times to removed Alex from my ad and didn't comply. I have shown that I was asked 2 times within 2 hours between 11 pm and 1 am in the morning and then given 14 minutes to comply at 1 am before I this thread was started. That is not the purpose of the BOI.I have proved my case and this case is closed as far as I am concerned.

On a final note.....Alex, I'm surprised you aren't all back and blue from tripping and falling over all the facts you dropped on the floor as you raced for the BOI sometime around 3 AM Saturday morning in Michigan. You came to the BOI not to straighten things out, cause if thats what made a difference to you, you wouldn't have been at your computer at 3 AM printing 1/2 truths. Here we are again in the middle of the night. You may be able to do this every night but not me. I have geckos to feed and a warm bed to get to. Maybe you can do better next time, cause this thread is a train wreck, like Sam says, and you were the conductor.

 

[Hues1]

show me in any of yor ads including the one you re-worded which indicates you are actually refering to "bloodlines" and "lineages"....

obviously these ones here do not...now do they?

Quote:
One of which is said to be Lizard Lair and one of which is said to be Alex Hue.

Quote:
Produced by me from breeders aquired from Lizard Lair and Alex Hue

 

[KelliH]

Wait a minute

This is what you love to do is start wars with anyone who is selling animals like you let alone lower than you.It is apparent in every wording of every ad for Mack's on Kingsnake.

Would you mind explaining that? I have sold several Mack Snows on kingsnake over the past few months. I have sold them at the prices I thought were fair. Alex has not started any wars with me over my ads. Could you be more specific about -every as for Mack's on kingsnake-?

I have made a standard reply if anyone cares to message me about paypal.

That's great, but why not address it here, since it has been brought up?

If you would like to start a thread somewhere about the overall health and happiness of an animal in a more natural enviornment with a large array of food verses a rack system and 1 or 2 staples only I would be more than happy to participate!

LOL perhaps I will start a thread, it would be very amusing.

BTW, I just saw the newest ad you posted for the gecko, it is worded much better (glad to see you are correctly labeling the animal as 0.1 now, rather than 1.0). It is also easier to understand since you clarified the origin somewhat

Produced by me from MY breeders that are Lizard Lair X Alex Hue bloodlines.

Good luck.

 

[Dennis Hultman]

This is completely OFF TOPIC, I shouldn't bother risking my points answering and will not after this. I have made a standard reply if anyone cares to message me about paypal.

Actually, This thread is titled Jeane Best / Wendy Childs...Beware. In the future if someone were to address your business on the BOI in a negative light, They would be required to use this thread according to the rules. You have mentioned that you’re professional, honest and going to be in this business for a long time. It is appropriate to address the question here.

 

[Chameleon Company]

Alex, hopefully now that we have all expended enough arrows from our quivers ...

I am hoping to begin and finish this post in a civil fashion.

There is the likely probablility that many will read here and not do much research on either of us elsewhere, as they aren't buying what we are selling. I know that I have some "followers" here, who will read what I have said, much of it having been contrary to you, and take a negative opinion from it. Likewise you to me.

Let me state for all who took a negative view of you beyond just the issue in this htread, that Alex has a long history in the business, not just with geckos, but a wide variety of reptiles. A search of the BOI will show both good and bad deals, but the good overwhelm the bad, and we all have bad deals. Bad deals also seem to get the air-play. While I have never done business with Alex, one can not help but find a tremendous volume of good experiences from folks whom I respect. Both inside and outside of the reptile business. Regardless of my positiopn in this thread, there is no way I could recommend anyone not do business with you, and would have to recommend such. I may have my opinions, but I am not blind.

I also had some fun bantering with you. I enjoyed the "shine my armor", and "bullfrog and slug" stuff thrown my way too. FYI, I spent 7 years shining my armor, 5 years with the 82nd Airborne, and 2 with 5th SF, and have spent more time falling from the sky than most bird defecation. The adage there is that "only two things fall from the sky ... bird crap and fools".

Which brings me to a last point. I know it well because Rich made me pay $10 for saying it, in that he said I called you "stupid". The "KISS" principle, written as "keep it simple-stupid", and in more politically correct tones now sometimes stated "keep it simple-straightforward", is older than dirt. Perhaps I made an assumption that most would get it. Anyone in doubt can Google it. I want you to know that while we disagreed in this thread, my intent was not to find a backhanded or clever way to imply I thought you were stupid. If anyone had raised the point in the thread, I would have explained it better, for it was not something to get all wrapped-up over if there was a misunderstanding.

I also have a history, as I said in an earlier post, of taking defensive positions in the BOI for folks when I feel like it. Nothing personal. The Alan Belcher thread is an extensive example.

To my supporters, Alex and I will likely always disagree about the specific topic of this thread. But every conceivable other means of evaluating he and his business should indicate a big green light. I hope your son had a good football day. Thanks

 

[MattP]

Jim, your smart...... you seem to be on a higher level (Take it to mean whatever you want)....... but I think you know what I'm saying. I really like the BOI, because not only does it give you information on buyers'/sellers' transactions, but it also gives you information about the character of each. I learned a lot about Alex, Wendy and Jim from this thread.

Thanks guys!

 

[Griz]

Actually, This thread is titled Jeane Best / Wendy Childs...Beware. In the future if someone were to address your business on the BOI in a negative light, They would be required to use this thread according to the rules. You have mentioned that you’re professional, honest and going to be in this business for a long time. It is appropriate to address the question here.

I for one, have taken the stance to never do business with an individual who charges the Paypal fee. If you are willing to ignore proper business practices, not to mention state law, then I find you are much more willing to ignore other standard protocols.

Alex, your points have been well taken and I am in complete agreement with your stance. I have several very interesting breedings in the works as we speak and I would not be the least bit happy if someone implied they received the animal directly from me vs through a different avenue solely to make a buck.

Griz

 

[Hues1]

Jim, I can not for the life of me figure out why a apparently intelligent person as yourself would challenge every single thing I've posted on this thread word for word...line by line. It makes absolutely no sense to me.

You can be a good guy, bad guy, scammer, lurker, "simple-Stupid" (yes, I knew what you were implying and didnt take offense to it) person and still realize what they implied in their ads was 100% false.

There is no excuse or reasoning for posting those ads in that manner, it absolutely leads people to believe they obtained those animals directly from me and because of the fact that non of those animals were purchased from me directly as implied is justification enough and plausible enough to substantiate my claim that they may not be actual Mack Snows.

I'll say it again just for clarification, we've now wasted many many many pages and comments back and forth only to end up right where we started, they implied something in their ads which was 100% false and by doing so...casted a shadow of doubt in the animals they were representing regardless of what hidden agendas and conspiracy theories you though you were trying to uncover. Your whole gripe with the possibility those animals originated from Shelly whom is a known Mack breeder doesnt change any bit of the fact that they already misreprented the actual chain of possession for those animals. Those ads were not a "typo" or a error in wording as they have claimed....its a flat out misrepresentation. I personally wish nothing to do with anyone or any organization that is willing to blatantly misrepresent a product or service in order to benefit themselfs, not hard to realize that poop flows downhill and I'd hate to be in the poop's path which was my primary drive to post this thread. You keep bringing up "my motives", if you look at those e-mails posted, my only motive is and was to be not associated with them or their ads.

As for my business which is irrelevant to this thread, we process and ship on average 20 or so orders per day locally and internationally and everyone in business will have good or bad transactions, for the amount of good versus bad posted here on fauna in relation to the amount of transactions we do, I'm happy as can be that the vast majority (98% or better) of our customers are happy with us....but this particular thread isnt about a business transaction, I've never had a business dealing with these people and they dont know me from beans. I'm like any other passionate business person in the world, when confronted with what I believe to be unjust or unfair circumstances...I pursue it with alot of passion. There's a difference between a bad business dealing versus plain ole misrepresentation.

I dont have the time or energy to post here on fauna as often as I'd like which is pretty obvious by my total post count in relevance to the amount of time I've been registered here, heck...most days I dont even have the time or energy to post on my own forums which is also pretty active. But I do use the BOI and other parts of fauna when the occassion warrants it. Its a double edged sword, when people consistently come here to post threads of a "negative" nature, they are automatically labeled as stirring the pot amongst other things. What most people dont realize is that some people just dont have the time to "socialize" and can only come here when the need arises.

Fauna is a huge resource, to some its a place to socialize, to others its a place to sell/buy/and peruse the ads, some come here purely for the info, and yet to others like me....come here to report/hash/and substantiate current business dealings. If every single person here was required to use every single part of Fauna, then Fauna wouldnt have the member base it enjoys. Its not about "rubbing" shoulders with the more outspoken members here in order to get into their good graces so when and if a BOI thread arises, those more outspoken people will come running to your defense as you've done for Jeane/Wendy...its about right and wrong. In my opinion and the opinions of many other people here based on the amount of PM's and e-mails I've been receiving, my point was made. I was justified in starting this thread, and you are the personification of how someone more outspoken and posts regularly here can and will try to use that type of notiriety in order to "twist" and manipulate the final outcome of a thread.

There are people posting on this thread that I've bumped heads with in the past, but you know what??? I've got moooocho respect and admiration for those people regardless...because no matter what the circumstance, those people have always shown to be honest/respectable/full of integrity and I would never try to challenge or take that away from them as you've tried to do with me on this thread....and you dont know me from beans either.

 

[Chameleon Company]

Hey Alex, thank you for the in-depth thoughts

I do not know at what point the length of a BOI thread makes most of it moot to all but those few who have the time to follow so many of the threads. I know from personal experience that its easy to get caught up in one well beyond the point of it mattering a "hill of beans". Beyond a certain length, things get lost.

Here's a paste form one of my earlier posts, and is something that I have said several ways within the post:

I do not see it as a one party right, the other party wrong scenario. I see it as a problem handled poorly, with Wendy and Jeane not grasping what they needed to be more accurate about, or deliberately being slow to change it. With that error, I also believe that Alex made all the mistakes that I have outlined as well.

There's really nothing to be gained by going over the minutia of everyone's opinion again. We made our points, levied opinions, etc. If anyone did not now believe in what they had said earlier, having had a change of heart, or wanting to clarify, they would change it. My above post was because I felt a need not to change anything that I said, but hope to deflate it to its proper perspective. The BOI is a format that makes things explode, or as Sam put it, become a train wreck. It changes the dynamics of how something that maybe could have been solved with another 24 hours of email or phone communication into a whole different beast. At times it probably isn't much too different than opening Pandora's box. Unless somebody says something about my Mother or thinning hair, or the length of my ....... snake, right or wrong, weak or strong, agree or disagree, the explanations are there. I believe that every entity involved in this thread has strong track records of providing quality reptiles, and standing behind their TOS and then some. That is not to be lost despite all the other disagreements here. I'm moving on, and trying to keep the next Hamilton in my wallet a little longer.

 

[VFR!]

I would like to know more a little about Paypal. I remember getting bashed once for including the 2.9% paypal fee into an ad. How does one feel for getting charged 4%?

Jim, I have to say that I like the way you have came back to handle yourself. Your character has been judge. :thumbsup

 

[Chameleon Company]

Looks like a new profit center !! Seriously, it is rather improper, poor from a PR standpoint (that would be public relations, not Puerto Rican), I believe a violation of PayPal policy, etc. I think it far wiser to just raise all prices by 2-3%.

 

[liquidleaf]

Well, it was clear to me from reading Alex's first post what his objection was - that even if these macks were descended or related to those he produced, he could not trace any easy ownership trail to the seller who posted the ad. That would be like saying in the boa world, "produced from a hypo obtained from Ihle and an albino obtained from Sharp" rather than just mentioning the bloodlines.

Yes, people get very upset over what boils down to a minor change in wording. But the meaning of that tiny little change is humongous and had Alex not brought this up, HIS name could have been affected later from whoever purchased the critters in question. But if you enter the business world, you'd better be prepared to be flexible and change incorrect wording as quickly as possible. That's why so many corporations have lawyers poring over ad copy and why the "cease and desist" letter exists.

So saying "geez, sorry, just a typo, you just want a stranglehold on the bloodline, that's why you're pickin' on me" isn't a good excuse. And the fact that Alex had already gotten an inquiry from someone ABOUT that ad in that short period of time shows that there were already people looking at the ad and thinking the lizards were produced by Alex... and probably other people who did not email Alex who assumed he produced them due to the wording. Time was a factor (more ad uptime, more people looking, more probability that someone wanting a Hue-produced mack would purchase the animals and be upset later).

We all know this thread doesn't need any more longwinded posts... heh. I just wanted to let those involved know my response would have been similar to Alex's in the same situation. Your name is your business, and if that is misused, your name gets dirty too...

 

[Golden Gate Geckos]

Has anyone done any background checks on Mike West?

Sorry I'm late on this thread... Apparently, the inquiry on the BOI that I started on Mike West awhile back wasn't researched?
http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/forums/showthread.php?t=73724

This is a kid that makes deals with people to trade his crickets for high-end geckos, but then turns around and charges those people for shipping. Also, when I last spoke to Mike West, he told me he only had line-bred snows from Lizard Lair.

 

[Alias47]

I haven't weighed in on this thread...but it is obvious (at least in my little world) that I should.

I want to begin by stating that I have known Alex Hue very well for years.
We speak on a fairly regular basis.

First and foremost...I do not believe his name should be included in the ad in any way shape or form.

Almost any of the bloodlines of Mack Snow available now in the market will trace back to Alex in some way. This ad stated that they were produced from Lizard's Lair x Alex Hue animals. They were actually produced from Lizard's Lair x Lizard's Lair animals...by way of a third party.
To include Alex's name seems to be an attempt to directly undercut ALEX'S advertising...something not previously mentioned...by Alex or anyone else.

Alex simply requested that his name be removed from the advertising.
I believe that this is a request that can be simply and quickly remedied. Instead his name was still included...with an explanation as to WHY it was included...even though none of the animals came from him directly...the breeders or the animals for sale. He has a right to request his name be removed...for any reason whatsoever...and it should be honored.

Jim it seems you may have dug under the coffin while looking for the bones. I don't believe Alex has any "hidden agenda" here as your anonymous sources claim.

Alex was the person who sold the first Macks...to several people in the industry. The people in this group were hand picked to further the morph by crossing it with others, instead of flooding the market, which at this point I feel they were picked well. To say that "Alex and Shelly no longer have a hold on the line and the prices start to drop." is ridiculous. They are definitely not the only two people with Mack Snows...and they both are well aware of that fact. Let me relate a little story...just to put an end to this line of thinking...it seems to be driving this little inquest of Alex when he simply requested him name be disinvolved with the advertising posted by Jeane and/or Wendy.

I was at a show in early February. I saw someone selling Mack Snows. I may not be a Leo person...but I know what a Mack Snow looks like...having seen them before they were offered to the public. I knew this person had received stock from Alex in the initial offering. I noted his price and sent PM to Alex on his forum the next day asking him if this was about the market value.
You know what his reply was?
"Thanks for the heads up....but its currently a free for all, I've got way too much going on to be worried about what the next guy is doing considering we sell mack snows for way more money than everyone else....and we sell way more mack snows in quantity then the other breeders"

This was on Feb. 7th.
Long before the actions that led to this thread even occured.
Long before the accusations about Alex's intentions were levied.

Alex is requesting that his name be removed from the ads.
I think that is a fair request and should be complied with...he never questioned her prices...or the fact that she had these animals for sale...although he did state that the timeline MAY be a little tight for Jeane/Wendy having produced offspring already, he never stated that these were NOT Mack Snows.

Why is it so hard to grasp that the only way he is involved with these offspring is at least 4 parties removed and he wants no part of people misrepresenting these animals as having come from him?

 

[Golden Gate Geckos]

Almost any of the bloodlines of Mack Snow available now in the market will trace back to Alex in some way.

Well, almost... I got mine from John Mack.

 

[Alias47]

LOL...
I understand. And I know John Mack sold to several people as well...but I believe...and I may be wrong...that the majority of the initial offering of Macks came through Alex...
Alex never stated this...just a conclusion I came to after reading the "Dan's" Thread...

 

[reptilebreeder]

This is completely OFF TOPIC, I shouldn't bother risking my points answering and will not after this. I have made a standard reply if anyone cares to message me about paypal.

It's not off topic. You aren't risking any points, you are however skirting the valid questions posed to you. Threads in the BOI usually deal with issues that many times boil down to; ethics, honesty, business practices, and so on, therefore there is more "latitude" in what is off or on topic. Were this a regular forum, straying off topic may get you "points" but not here as the questions deal with BOI issues, and one of the rules of posting about a person is, if there is already a thread about them you are supposed to post in that thread.

That said. Maybe you would like to rethink your answer, or at least change your policy, as I've seen in some of your posts (or posted e-mails) that you pride yourself on honesty and integrity. Charging the paypal surcharge, is neither honest, nor good integrity. I assume your e-mail that you send when people inquire is a "other people put this charge into the cost of the animal, I'm charging seperate, so you know what you are paying for" or some such "justification".
Bottom line is, it is a cost of doing business, YOU use paypal probably because it helps your business, people can pay you with different methods, so it is a convenience for you and your customers, therfore it is unethical, and dishonest to go against their TOS. If you don't agree with their TOS don't use their service, simple as that. Not to mention a violation of TOS, but in many states it is actually illegal, where is your honesty and integrity in that? Last but not least, charging 4% instead of the actual 2.9%! so you are actually making a profit on your unethical, possibly illegal act.