Bad Guy Jeff and Christina Wise (Wise Reptiles) Stole Money from Benefit Auctions for Maggie

[bear]

wow... This is crazy, I cant believe this happened, people seem to be going lower and lower lately.. Christina contacted me a month ago trying to trade my cinny ball python for a website design. she claimed she designed boarepublic.com. I wonder if any of that was true. Either way im glad i didnt do the deal. She is local too, my wife works in flint, its only 20-30 minutes from me..

 

[Herpster]

DAND you rock for



Everything. Good night friend.

 

[Herpster]

DAND you rock for



Everything. Good night friend.

I obviously didn't do that right, but I hope you know what I meant!

 

[garweft]

You obviously have not been here long enough to remember what happened what I called Chris Johnson out in a rather similar circumstance. Many people will vehemently defend a "feel good" lie over a hurtful truth. Anyone doing so in this case would have been in EXTREME jeopardy of being absolutely BLASTED for appearing to throw a wet blanket on what appeared to be an altruistic gesture by the Wise's.

I don't blame them one little bit for not grabbing that nettle....

Sorry if I am behind the curve replying to these posts. This thread is progressing a LOT faster than I can find time to read it...

Ed Clark called them out and look how we reacted..... Granted it was Ed, but still he had proof and we tried our best to tear it apart.

 

[zzzdanz]

Ed did call them out but I believe he also made up an e-mail on that thread as well.

 

[StrictlyExotics]

Fri, March 26, 2010 8:02:43 AMRe: Concerns
From: XXXXX Add to Contacts
To: Dean Stemple <[email protected]>


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How long have they been close, though? I don't notice anything substantially different about Alex's site compared to when I made my purchase last year...though he did comment about a new run of Tshirts.

Harald Moore





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From: Dean Stemple <[email protected]>
To: XXXXXX
Sent: Fri, March 26, 2010 7:08:30 AM
Subject: Re: Concerns


On the Website, Nick designed it then thats ok. I am not totally in disbelief then. Nick and the Wise's have become really close. Thanks for letting me voice my concerns.

Dean




--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: XXXXXX
To: Dean Stemple <[email protected]>
Sent: Fri, March 26, 2010 4:45:19 AM
Subject: Re: Concerns


I have had similar concerns, and, told Christina when this first started that she would likely be called upon to show that all the money was going to the intended parties.
I'll contact Alex about whether he has had any work done by Christina...but the site itself says designed by polasian studio

Harald Moore





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From: Dean Stemple <[email protected]>
To: XXXXX
Sent: Thu, March 25, 2010 10:58:28 PM
Subject: Concerns

Harald,

As the title describes, I am haiving some concerns regarding a couple of things. I know that this is probably not something that you are looking forward to as I am not looking forward to even writing it. Anyhow...

Is there any way that we can check to make sure that all of the auction money is getting to the right people. I am really concerned that not all of it is getting to where it should be going. I have noticed some changes with Jeff and Chrisitna that makes me worried about it. They, the familes should have thousands now, as I have bid on most every auction there has been. If the money is in fact getting to the right people, I dont have an issue with this whatsoever. I am not close to either Rick or Maggie so I wouldnt know how to ask them if they have been receiving all of the money that the auctions have generated for them.

I also notice that, both Jeff and Christina seem to be going on shopping sprees within Fauna. I dont know if they have actually spent money in Fauna but I do wonder myself. Because they do interact with me, I know some new things that they have puchased, Windows 7, rats, stuff to build racks, etc. The part that really throws me off is that Jeff's work seems seasonal, mowing lawns and I dont think Christina is employed at all. Now this doesnt mean that they have no income, but I cant see that the possible income that they are bringing in can generate that much flow to afford some of these things.


The other concern that I have is that Christina has claimed to have made the website, BoaRepublic.com. I know you have had dealing with them because I saw it when I did your feedback. Is there a subtle way that you could find out for sure for me, I would greatly appreciate it. I want to say that no, they did not have it done by her. If Nick created it, I could associate him with them regarding the actual website.

Christina told me that their website design was like 25k because of other stuff they did, like T-Shirt designs and so forth. When we asked her about some of the stuff, her answers seemed very vague, like why the cost was so high. I cant remember the last time a website was THAT pricey.

I really hope I am wrong here but my intuition tells me that I am not. I am a decent read of people and this one is really eating at me.

Thank you for helping me.

Dean Stemple





________________________________________________________________

I will address one thing that was asked of me, why didnt I bring this to public attention. Why would I bring this to public attention, especially to the person who told me today in chat that they dont trust me anyhow?
________________________________________________________________









On Sat, Mar 27, 2010 at 1:57 AM, Dean Stemple <[email protected]> wrote:

I will keep it between you and I but if thats the site she is using for her "portfolio" she should use one a little less dramatic.

Thank you sir and no hurry on mine.

Dean




--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: XXXXXXXX

To: Dean Stemple <[email protected]>
Sent: Sat, March 27, 2010 12:46:55 AM
Subject: Re: Hey Dean, its Nick...


Sigh...well, I didn't know she was so vocal about it. You're correct, I've never done a single website with her. Boarepublic was the very first job that I ever did (6 or 7 years ago), and I only met Christina (via FC) about a month or so ago?!?! I told her to keep my name out of the Chuck auctions, so that she can take the credit for the new sites and promote her new website designing venture. However, I really didn't think she'd be running around taking credit for ALL my jobs?!?!


This MIGHT be a misunderstanding, though. I told her that she can be the marketing agent for my future jobs. This would entail her calling potential leads to get my foot through the door, so I can book clients. I also told her that Polasian and Wise Guy Web Design (or whatever she will call it) can occasionally collaborate on projects. So...maybe thats what she meant? Like..."I am working with Polasian now, and we did Boarepublic."...? Technically, she is (although in a TINY way) working with Polasian now (or WILL be working)...so maybe thats how she meant for it to sound?



She seems like a sweet girl, and shes doing so much to help Chuck that I wanted her to get the pat's on the back...not me. I dont need them...I'm content helping out from the shadows LOL. I'm the most relaxed dude on earth...it doesn't bother me too much that shes saying that. As long as she doesn't somehow cost me potential biz. But I do appreciate you telling me (I'll be a bit more cautious with her)...and no worries...I hate drama, so this stays between you and I. I wont confront her about it.


I just hope that she doesn't dig herself into a grave, though. Eventually, if it ever comes out that I'm a web designer, and show people my portfolio...people might be like "HUH??? I thought Christina did that job???" In which case the cat will be out of the bag. I can just see ED resurrecting his "are they liars" thread over this. So I hope she is careful with how loud she talks about "her" sites.


As far as trading snakes for sites...yes...she is learning web design, so thats how she is currently taking payment. She asked me if i will help her out a bit (helping HER out really means ME doing 80% of the work) ...and I said no problem. Right now, it would take me a day to make a site that will take her a couple weeks (she is still learning)...so I have no problem "helping" her out . However, I did tell her that ALL-FLASH sites are off limits. I will not help her with those, because she doesn't know anything relevant about the Flash program yet. So that will be me doing 100% of the work...and thats just too much. So yea, snakes for sites is all good...I am aware that she is doing that.


We will work on your site and David's site first...so dont worry about there being any delay. I told her not to take on any jobs until we finish yours first.


OK, thanks Dean, I do appreciate you letting me know...and no worries, this will stay between us.


Thanks man,
Nick










I'm the most relaxed dude you'll ever meet...I'm not one who runs around saying "i did that, i did that, that was all me." . Obviously, Christina is that type of person...


On Sat, Mar 27, 2010 at 12:00 AM, Dean Stemple <[email protected]> wrote:

Nick,

You know that I have a ton of respect for you so I really hope you can keep what I say private. Someone is taking credit for your design work sir. I know you are "helping" them with the designs and so forth but I think you are being shortchanged.

I was told by Christina, that she designed BoaRepublic.com by herself, with you consulting her. Now I know better being that I can look it up fairly easily as well as make some inquiries. The thing that is getting to me is that, not only that, but she is trying to sell a lot of website design as well. She has been telling me that she is trading for snakes with this person and that person. I dont see how this all works out for you.

This is just my .02 as I am concerned someone who is going to end up doing most of the work is going to be cut out. Also, I truly thought the deisgn work you were going to do with her was strictly for Chucks family, which I dont see trading for snakes is going to help them.

I still want to work with you but I dont know how this is going to work for you.

Thank you,

Dean




--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: XXXXXX
To: [email protected]
Sent: Fri, March 26, 2010 10:46:29 PM
Subject: Hey Dean, its Nick...


Hey,


I got your PM. You can E-mail me on this address whenever you want.


Thanks Dean,
Nick

 

[scaledverts]

I obviously didn't do that right, but I hope you know what I meant!

 

[zzzdanz]

Dean I think your reputation here is as solid as it gets,and I know I'm not the only one that's feels that way.For someone to claim they don't trust you anyhow?..What is that lack of trust based on I'ld ask?

 

[StrictlyExotics]

I addressed my concerns. Thats all I felt like I could do, other then to ignore the Wise's and remove myself from posting in any other auction had there been anymore. I even left the site for awhile because I was bothered. I mean, I read posts, but I stopped posting. I had a sick aweful feeling and it got worse when the dollar amounts were posted.

I felt like I accused people of wrongdoing and they were on the up and up at that point. I didnt want to post those emails but now, I felt like I needed to. People ask why I didnt make it public a long time ago? How could I? Especially when I am asked by somone who makes it blatantly obvious to me that they dont trust me to begin with "because I am new", what would a public announcement have done? I would have been shredded either way.

 

[StrictlyExotics]

Did someone call?I didn't have much to do with the auction except to make a "test" run to see if it was actually on the up and up...and the events that transpired drew Dean under my suspicion too . He was buying stuff like mad at rock bottom prices (nah, I ain't mad at him..just showing how my mind works).


I also didn't say much when Ed was accusing the two of them, because even a broke clock can be right twice a day and I really didn't see why he would pull such a lie out of thin air...ummm Sometimes, it's just best to shut up when people want to see the 'good' in everyone.

As for the "rock bottom" prices, I dont see this either. I won 2 auctions total and donated some cash plus a snake in other auctions.

I won 2 geckos at 100.00 + 60.00 shipping. Can someone tell me how this is "rock-bottom"?

I also won some custom t-shirts AND... I even offered them to you at YOUR final bid price Deb. I would have paid the difference being that ALL I really wanted to do was donate some more money and have something to show for it so I wouldnt have to explain. Its not like I beat by you by a dollar, I beat you by 35.00.

You ask me why I didnt make a public announcement as to why I didnt say anything but you tell me TODAY that you dont even trust me anyhow. The question I have is why didnt you being that you arent "new" and may have garnered some trust here. You felt the same way I did and took the same routes I did about your feelings but, you have no issues calling me out about it.

 

[dturner100]

I think it's been settled why everybody didn't come out and say anything. I was the first person to ask this, and the issue was addressed. There is ABSOLUTELY NO reason for two respected members of this forum to turn on each other because of the wrong doings of Jeff, and Christina Wise.

 

[cat snake]

Quote Mrs wise reptiles post #366:

Yes I have avoided this thread because I didnt know what to do or say. The check is a fake the PAYPAL is all real and can be verified by Dand. HE has been in my account and has seen it. I did lie about the money. I was scared.

Well, I can't even post a quote like normal members or do a screen saver shot to save my life, but finding MS Paint and then finding a font that looks like hand-writing to alter the image of a check and posting it up doesn't sound like "I didn't know what to do." It sounds more like knowing exactly “what to do.” That other members figured this out and exactly how it was done (such as brd7666, post #176, Southern Wolf, post #273, LauraB, post #300 and others) puts me in awe of the CSI-like powers of the BOI. It also sounds like stealing from funds for person A (tattoolost, post #42) while telling them that the funds were given to person B (herpster) who never got them sounds like knowing exactly “what to do.” Recruiting others against a grieving widow (DanD, post #297…THIS MAN DESERVES MORE GOOD KARMA POINTS!) sounds like knowing exactly “what to do,” and possibly hacking someone’s Paypal account (StrictlyExotics, post #343) sounds not only like knowing exactly “what to do,” but that there is a level of experience in doing things like this that takes some time to perfect. It sounds like this sort of thing may have happened before, but these folks did not anticipate the power of the BOI to expose the whole sordid charade so completely. My only concern at this point is that--with the admission of forgery (post #366), the accusations made by members that grand larceny and other federal offenses have been committed, the statements made that federal/state/local law enforcement officials may be notified and that child welfare services may also be notified --these two might be “scared” (or foolhardy) enough to compound their problems and attempt to vanish in the dark of night with kids, reptiles and stolen monies in tow before DanD comes knocking on their door. I hope I am wrong for the sake of all involved.

If the Wises are reading this: Don’t drag your children through this. Deal with what comes, even if it means that your kids have to stay with relatives for awhile. As per King Solomon's ring: This Too Shall Pass...but YOU need to do the right thing.

 

[brd7666]

I think it's been settled why everybody didn't come out and say anything. I was the first person to ask this, and the issue was addressed. There is ABSOLUTELY NO reason for two respected members of this forum to turn on each other because of the wrong doings of Jeff, and Christina Wise.

I agree, finger pointing and accusations between other members here is going nowhere. I really don't think anyone thought people could be so low as to do what the Wise's have done. It is unthinkable for the rest of us. So stop blaimng others and stop blaming yourselves. There are only two people to blame here and that is Jeffery, and Christine Wise.

I don't believe any of their so called excuses either. I think this was planned from the beginning. So they thought they were being clever and out smarting everyone, and I suppose to some degree they did. Now they have to face the consiquences for their actions. I don't think they even realize just how serious this is, and I say that because I'm not sure they have a very high intellangence level.

So lets all just do what we can to bring this to a closure, and bring justice where justice needs to be done.

 

[HyderHouseHerps]

There's a special place in hell for people who violate chlidren in any matter and that includes stealing and lying!! Sorry it infuriates me.

 

[SirenSanJose]

Sorry, I also wanted to let you know that I am not sending them to a "camp". They are going to what is called summer camp, but it is at their school. It hopefully will be good for them, it will keep them busy and I'm sure some of their friends will be there also. Put it this way - if they would have "failed" this year, I wouldn't have to pay for it. I am basically paying for "summer school", but my in laws cannot handle all 3 kids, all day, every day. They have their own grief.

And, just wanted to add that my mother in law said Christina was a wacko from the first time she spoke to her. She is just like Charles and I mean, she HATED Christina, and I couldn't figure out what it was. I just shrugged it off, but when I told her today what was going on, she said I told you about her and she better hope she never sees me.....seriously, my mother in law would kick her butt. Where do you think Charles came from????

Far as I'm concerned, you don't have to explain or justify what kind of thing, exactly, the kids are going to. Overnight "summer camp" or "summer school", they'll still be getting a dose of normalcy and hopefully some fun and friendship that I'm sure they sorely need right now.

 

[kmrkvicka]

THAT WAS THE 1500.

I just didnt know what to do.

first off, I paid in $1575 as well as donated snakes... so that $1500 right there was my PERSONAL donation to Maggie. I DEMAND you make this right by borrowing, selling, or pawning whatever you can to make this right

That money was from my mom she knew I wanted ball pythons and hadent gave me christmas or my birthday yet along with loaning me alittle more till we get taxes. I could careless if you believe me or not on this. I never paid 1000 for the snakes they was on a payment plan

Sounds like the TOTAL for the animals is $1000, just because it was paid on a payment plan doesn't change the overall price. Also, god forbid you spend your "christmas and birthday" money repaying the STOLEN funds to Maggie and her kids!! How old are you? Aren't these lessens we learn by the age of 5???????

I want the money you collected for me to either be sent to me or back to the people who were kind enough to do what they did - you know, the GOOD people on this site - a place you should not be allowed to crawl around, on your belly like the snake that you are - funny, ha?

LOL - my snakes take offense to that statement!!!

Not long before the Wise's started the... hmm, not sure WHAT to call it, now that the details have emerged... "for" Maggie, they set up a fund raiser for this site. I believe that video of Jeff laying in the snow doing a snow angel and then jumping into the river naked was part of it. In any event, money was collected by them and then forwarded to me. Sorry, but if the evidence that is being displayed here is even half true, I have absolutely NO desire to have any money that came from their hands in my own hands, so I have forwarded those funds to Maggie.

Thank you!!!!



So now the true question becomes, what do we all do? I feel beyond guilty knowing that the two boas I have, that clearly meant so much to Rick, are in my collection under false pretenses. Woody is the only remaining son of his Aurora he had left. Sammy was the dad to his first litter of sunglows.... I'm currently in possession of stolen goods. I dearly care for these snakes, but now owning them feels tainted... as I haven't gotten them under the agreed upon terms....

 

[Shadera]

First, I have to get this out..

-ahem- Back to serious stuff.

That thing I posted about family working for DHHR? That wasn't a threat at all. I think anyone who even thinks they know me, knows that's a promise you can bank on. I have zero qualms about having my mom (who is the family member spoken of, and she's every bit the bear that I am) pull that trigger if you two don't get off your duffs and get that money where it was originally intended to go - NOW.

I'm also curious about a question asked a little earlier. What if the reptiles given don't cover the entire amount? That's a lot of money, and given the prices they'll probably have to be sold at to move them, would need to be a large amount of animals. And yes, any of those that aren't paid off, need to be so that probably adds even more to the final tally you actually need to come up with.

As for animals won, I too feel dirty. One was adopted out to a local family who have wonderful children interested in reptiles, and the other I am going to offer back to the breeder or offer above what I won it for to make it an adequate sell price since that's effectively how I view that transaction now since funds didn't go where they should have. No reason everyone should lose. I'm not at all saying that's what everyone else should do, but it's what feels right for me.

And now, I'll be waiting with everyone else to see how today and the promised drop off goes.

 

[crotalusadamanteus]

Not to keep beating this horse, it happened, it's over with and I won't hold it against anyone either. We're all still good.

BUT, in the same manner that the mods were notified, would it have really started a big old mess to drop a PM to the people involved, stating their suspicions?

I mean, "Hey bud, just a heads up that something ain't right about these auctions. Can't prove it, but something ain't feeling right, so be careful." Ed did it publicly, and opened himself up to it. Behind closed doors, it may have been a little different.

Maybe it just seems easier to me then it actually is. But a simple PM like that to me, would have started me looking a little closer at things, or at least comparing some things with other members. Might have come to this conclusion a little sooner, or even stopped it from progressing.

Anyway, that'll be my last comment on that aspect of this mess. Just trying to see and understand the reasoning.

You obviously have not been here long enough to remember what happened what I called Chris Johnson out in a rather similar circumstance. Many people will vehemently defend a "feel good" lie over a hurtful truth. Anyone doing so in this case would have been in EXTREME jeopardy of being absolutely BLASTED for appearing to throw a wet blanket on what appeared to be an altruistic gesture by the Wise's.

I don't blame them one little bit for not grabbing that nettle....

Sorry if I am behind the curve replying to these posts. This thread is progressing a LOT faster than I can find time to read it...

 

[hhmoore]

BUT, in the same manner that the mods were notified, would it have really started a big old mess to drop a PM to the people involved, stating their suspicions?

I mean, "Hey bud, just a heads up that something ain't right about these auctions. Can't prove it, but something ain't feeling right, so be careful." Ed did it publicly, and opened himself up to it. Behind closed doors, it may have been a little different.

I was pretty comfortable with the Wises running a few auctions to benefit Rick and (at the time) Chuck & his family. I still laid some groundwork, and told Christina about some past issues to let her know that she might be called up on to show how much money had been received, and to prove that it had been properly distributed.
As more and more people got involved, and the scale of things started to increase, the question was like a little worm working its way in. (It's a lot easier to trust somebody to handle a couple hundred dollars; but when it turns into a few thousand, without any real oversight, it becomes a different story.) Hard to say exactly when it started, or how long it took me to be aware of it, but all the sudden it was there. When I started seeing them making purchases, it definitely threw up some flags...but, by that point, the Wises were riding high on the popularity polls, and they had answers in hand for what they were doing.
Keep in mind that I did come right out and tell Christina that people were having concerns (ok, at the time, I may not have known that other people were having those concerns), and it would be a good idea to make a statement showing the money generated & distributed. I made the same mistake that Dean did...I didn't approach Maggie directly. My reasons were also the same - her situation, combined with her post thanking everybody for the contributions.
People WERE talking, and apparently more groups were having the same thoughts than any of us were aware of. It WOULD have been nice if we had found each other, compared notes, and been able to prevent this outcome...but how often does that happen .

 

[crissabella]

Maggie I don't know you or your daughter personally. But she pretty much summed up ~60 pages of comments. It is funny how kids can see through all the other stuff and get down to the nuts and bolts of the matter!

Here's hoping that tomorrow the Wise's begin the process of seeing what they started through to the end and getting you the donations that you are owed. Rest assured that if they do not start going in the opposite direction than they have been this community will not let it rest.

DAND you rock for exposing and now taking over the process of getting the money where it SHOULD go!

Maggie, my thoughts and prayers continue to be with you and your children as this situation continues. I'm hoping in praying that today's meeting will get the process started in getting you what is rightfully yours back. You and your kids have the entire reptile community here behind you and as Dawn said above, we will not rest until this situation is rectified.

I will be literally glued to this computer, waiting for updates on the meeting, until my doctors appointment at 11.

Dave, i cannot express how impressed i am on how you are handling this. You are truly one of the leaders here on Fauna, and you definitely are the man !!!

BTW, i would be scared to death of crossing you in any way, cause i know i would have my handed to me on a platter!