Everyone, no matter where they are and what they've done, can decide to change and be better.
Jim, what are you going to do for the OP?
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Bad Guy Jim Scharphorn - Bad Guy
- Thread starter futureherpbreeder
- Start date
Everyone, no matter where they are and what they've done, can decide to change and be better.
Jim, what are you going to do for the OP?
Em Wright
New member
Well said, Lucille. Redemption is possible, if someone is willing to put forth the effort and see it through.So I too will ask, what are you doing to make things right with Josh? I think if you truly want to turn this around that doing something to settle things with the OP is an excellent place to start...
And maybe looking into some anger management classes.
Southern Wolf
I don't bite..... HARD!!!
No problem, do not need your business.
I am a
I am
Never said I was'nt
I did not graduate,
I do not have have any english skills.
I do make a killer cage that all of you are missing out on.
I have 3 very successfull businesses.
What pot do you all have to piss in ?
By the way for those that are not in your mommas basement their is a guy at your drive up window waiting for you to take his order.
Clay.... you still feel like defending Jim? If I denounce someone... it's because I have a very good reason to.... and Jim just made my point in his own words.
Hey Guys, even Charlie Sheen’s publicist had to call it quits when things went too far. But I will hang with Jim a little longer if you want to pull me back in as you seem to be wanting. (I don’t blame you. It’s a lot of fun to spend so much time and energy discussing such a controversial person.)
Jim, as you read this, if you have realized any reason why Joshua “could have” gotten holes like that in his panels, you really need to admit it and get this resolved ASAP. It would be better in the long run.
You all arguing back and forth with Jim is solid entertainment (though admittedly unproductive up until now). If I have calculated Jim correctly, which requires me to account for education-level, a perception of himself as an overall good guy, perhaps a tougher childhood than normal, and a GREAT sense of humor, then I admit that I about fell out of my chair with laughter when I read what he posted early this morning. This is me assuming still that Jim really didn't drill those holes in the panels and that a customer wanted to make sure that the outcome of the transaction got rubbed in his face. It is only an assumption and I would like more information to know for sure what happened here. If there were holes on those panels that Jim didn’t personally drill, but the panels might have been drilled when Jim shipped them out, it is Jim’s responsibility to make this situation right with his customer.
This transaction was a process. Some problems with the order unfolded and those problems that Joshua encountered are highly believable! A scratched panel. Missing screws. Some minor indentations that nobody would see once the cages were assembled. Cheap lights (Jim doesn’t charge for expensive lights and they are totally optional accessories). You DO get what you pay for when talking about accessories. Thermostats are a perfect example. Those believable issues with the order unfolded in the context of one detail that started it all and that is how Joshua explained how two of his panels got warped to begin with. Joshua said that he was trying to install panels without the countersunk holes and it totally screwed up his panels (a sign of over tightening) and that the panels all needed to be countersunk just like some had already been countersunk. Some would think that Joshua could have said this in order to excuse the “already used” look of one or more panels that Joshua needed to have replaced. If I have that wrong Joshua I really need you to clarify so I am being 100% fair to you in how I interpret that part of the transaction between you and Jim. Did at least one of the panels that you wanted replaced have those countersunk holes or were the countersunk holes on panels you planned on keeping? It should be a very important detail since you both disagree on how the holes got there and that detail is responsible for the downward spiral of this transaction. Answering that question would clarify if you had any motive at all to misstate facts about those panel holes. I cannot come up any other motive for you to keep arguing about holes that were already in panels. I mean, I can see why you would have started to show him what you wanted and how his pilot holes were not what you wanted and wouldn’t work in your opinion, but not to keep arguing about it when you realized how Jim just wasn’t going to give up the issue. Right? I mean, you could have just said, “Man I over-tightened some screws and now I have to replace these panels” or “Man your panels just won’t work without countersinking screws and I just figured that out the hard way so will you please send me more?” But to state that there were holes you didn’t drill, what would have motivated you to state that and keep insisting on it like you did other than that those holes were really there and it irritated you that Jim was confused by the holes? But that’s not a good enough reason unless you knew he had to accept at least one of those panels back without you paying (hopefully). What other motive could there be because if you had none, then there is no reason to keep this thread moving like this unless it is just to play cat and mouse with Jim & the gang.
At any rate. I do not agree at all with Jim's use of the word "f*gs" as I am actually a strong advocate for gay rights. However, having said that, just to be realistic, Jim has no idea why the use of that word is totally unethical to use as an insult. So why would I treat him as if he does? Since I can't change him nor do I care to, I find his post to be the highlight of my day. TOO FUNNY!
I don't live in my moma's basement either. He wasn't being literal and if you are to be fair with what he really meant, as you don't seem to be concerned with based upon some of the BS I see posted here, Jim would say that I have a legitimate purpose. Whereas you might too if you were focused on what happened in this specific transition. What this really might come down to is this question:
If your respective cage dealer of choice sold a large order and a customer called and emailed the vendor to repeatedly claim that the vendor used a tool that the vendor didn't even own but the subtext of the communication indicated that the customer had damaged parts and the customer also thought that the tool the vendor didn’t own was required to properly build the cage and that the customer actually owned that tool and had already been using that tool on panels…would the vendor be okay to go either way in how the vendor chose to deal with that customer (i.e., sending out replacement panels for the panels the customer damaged… or …providing the customer an exact $ amount for replacement parts … or …. allow the customer to back down from her or his story about how they damaged their own panels and THEN proceed with finding a fair $ for replacing those parts and shipping them). What should the vendor’s policy be in that situation? Just to refund the entire transaction and have the customer send the large order back? Eat all expenses? Or replace the damaged parts anyway, no questions ask? I would like to know how your respective vendors would answer that question but I imagine that if they were honest, which many of them will be, some would just toss the customer a bone and some wouldn’t and most would probably say that each problematic transaction of this nature (which might only occur once a year) is handled on a case-by-case basis and they use their discretion when handling those situations.
I never said that Jim handled it the way I would have. I never said that anyone was wrong here to want a vendor who goes above and beyond at their own expense to “hook up” customers when they seem to have accidently damaged parts during an install. In fact, Jim pointed out from the start that Joshua could have purchased the cage assembled already which implies that Jim thought the customer had damaged his own panels during assembly. I have only said that Jim handled it in the way Jim would handle it and I wouldn’t call it bad. The personality insults are not a big deal as I have said. He seems to like the attention and the banter and that goes back to his attitude. It’s a little twisted I suppose but he is already on the defensive anyways. He is not going to fold if others are not willing to admit that there is the slight possibility here that Jim might have avoided being strong-armed by a customer. Though the customer appears to be in the right in the main text of the email exchange, not so much in the subtext and that is important.
As one of Jim’s customers, in fact as one of his Raving Fans, it matters to me how this transaction goes down in the books because, as a reptile enthusiast (not a breeder yet), I think everyone should have cages that look as good as mine.
And Em I seem to agree with you on a lot. It’s not too late for Jim to make this right. But to be fair to Jim, if there really wasn't any way for those holes to have been drileld before leaving Jim's hands, I think Joshua would have to backpedal on one detail first. I don’t think that it is going to happen anymore than you think that Jim will help Joshua get what he really wants (wanted, paid for): cages that look like mine or even better than mine (if he gets to put those countersunk screws all the way around).
In my opinion, IF those panels really came to Joshua as Joshua says they did (countersunk holes), then after all this trouble, Joshua needs a HUGE apology and a full refund and a fully assembled, perfect cage, delivered free. If those panels were not already drilled, then Joshua “got what he got”. Not that I agree with the screws or scratched panel being skipped (I don’t agree with that AT ALL in fact)—but I am not sure how long it was before Joshua put that complaint in with Paypal because that was a bigger barrier for Jim to jump over and probably sealed the fate of the transaction.
Joshua, you don’t have to obviously. But I would appreciate knowing the information I asked about. I am certain nearly everyone here read your exchange with Jim and supported your position and I think that is a lot of protection for your reputation as an honest guy. I am the oddball so what do you have to lose?
And Jim, if you have more information to offer before Joshua buries you (or himself), why not offer it up and just get it over with so we can all move on?
Jim, as you read this, if you have realized any reason why Joshua “could have” gotten holes like that in his panels, you really need to admit it and get this resolved ASAP. It would be better in the long run.
You all arguing back and forth with Jim is solid entertainment (though admittedly unproductive up until now). If I have calculated Jim correctly, which requires me to account for education-level, a perception of himself as an overall good guy, perhaps a tougher childhood than normal, and a GREAT sense of humor, then I admit that I about fell out of my chair with laughter when I read what he posted early this morning. This is me assuming still that Jim really didn't drill those holes in the panels and that a customer wanted to make sure that the outcome of the transaction got rubbed in his face. It is only an assumption and I would like more information to know for sure what happened here. If there were holes on those panels that Jim didn’t personally drill, but the panels might have been drilled when Jim shipped them out, it is Jim’s responsibility to make this situation right with his customer.
This transaction was a process. Some problems with the order unfolded and those problems that Joshua encountered are highly believable! A scratched panel. Missing screws. Some minor indentations that nobody would see once the cages were assembled. Cheap lights (Jim doesn’t charge for expensive lights and they are totally optional accessories). You DO get what you pay for when talking about accessories. Thermostats are a perfect example. Those believable issues with the order unfolded in the context of one detail that started it all and that is how Joshua explained how two of his panels got warped to begin with. Joshua said that he was trying to install panels without the countersunk holes and it totally screwed up his panels (a sign of over tightening) and that the panels all needed to be countersunk just like some had already been countersunk. Some would think that Joshua could have said this in order to excuse the “already used” look of one or more panels that Joshua needed to have replaced. If I have that wrong Joshua I really need you to clarify so I am being 100% fair to you in how I interpret that part of the transaction between you and Jim. Did at least one of the panels that you wanted replaced have those countersunk holes or were the countersunk holes on panels you planned on keeping? It should be a very important detail since you both disagree on how the holes got there and that detail is responsible for the downward spiral of this transaction. Answering that question would clarify if you had any motive at all to misstate facts about those panel holes. I cannot come up any other motive for you to keep arguing about holes that were already in panels. I mean, I can see why you would have started to show him what you wanted and how his pilot holes were not what you wanted and wouldn’t work in your opinion, but not to keep arguing about it when you realized how Jim just wasn’t going to give up the issue. Right? I mean, you could have just said, “Man I over-tightened some screws and now I have to replace these panels” or “Man your panels just won’t work without countersinking screws and I just figured that out the hard way so will you please send me more?” But to state that there were holes you didn’t drill, what would have motivated you to state that and keep insisting on it like you did other than that those holes were really there and it irritated you that Jim was confused by the holes? But that’s not a good enough reason unless you knew he had to accept at least one of those panels back without you paying (hopefully). What other motive could there be because if you had none, then there is no reason to keep this thread moving like this unless it is just to play cat and mouse with Jim & the gang.
At any rate. I do not agree at all with Jim's use of the word "f*gs" as I am actually a strong advocate for gay rights. However, having said that, just to be realistic, Jim has no idea why the use of that word is totally unethical to use as an insult. So why would I treat him as if he does? Since I can't change him nor do I care to, I find his post to be the highlight of my day. TOO FUNNY!
I don't live in my moma's basement either. He wasn't being literal and if you are to be fair with what he really meant, as you don't seem to be concerned with based upon some of the BS I see posted here, Jim would say that I have a legitimate purpose. Whereas you might too if you were focused on what happened in this specific transition. What this really might come down to is this question:
If your respective cage dealer of choice sold a large order and a customer called and emailed the vendor to repeatedly claim that the vendor used a tool that the vendor didn't even own but the subtext of the communication indicated that the customer had damaged parts and the customer also thought that the tool the vendor didn’t own was required to properly build the cage and that the customer actually owned that tool and had already been using that tool on panels…would the vendor be okay to go either way in how the vendor chose to deal with that customer (i.e., sending out replacement panels for the panels the customer damaged… or …providing the customer an exact $ amount for replacement parts … or …. allow the customer to back down from her or his story about how they damaged their own panels and THEN proceed with finding a fair $ for replacing those parts and shipping them). What should the vendor’s policy be in that situation? Just to refund the entire transaction and have the customer send the large order back? Eat all expenses? Or replace the damaged parts anyway, no questions ask? I would like to know how your respective vendors would answer that question but I imagine that if they were honest, which many of them will be, some would just toss the customer a bone and some wouldn’t and most would probably say that each problematic transaction of this nature (which might only occur once a year) is handled on a case-by-case basis and they use their discretion when handling those situations.
I never said that Jim handled it the way I would have. I never said that anyone was wrong here to want a vendor who goes above and beyond at their own expense to “hook up” customers when they seem to have accidently damaged parts during an install. In fact, Jim pointed out from the start that Joshua could have purchased the cage assembled already which implies that Jim thought the customer had damaged his own panels during assembly. I have only said that Jim handled it in the way Jim would handle it and I wouldn’t call it bad. The personality insults are not a big deal as I have said. He seems to like the attention and the banter and that goes back to his attitude. It’s a little twisted I suppose but he is already on the defensive anyways. He is not going to fold if others are not willing to admit that there is the slight possibility here that Jim might have avoided being strong-armed by a customer. Though the customer appears to be in the right in the main text of the email exchange, not so much in the subtext and that is important.
As one of Jim’s customers, in fact as one of his Raving Fans, it matters to me how this transaction goes down in the books because, as a reptile enthusiast (not a breeder yet), I think everyone should have cages that look as good as mine.
And Em I seem to agree with you on a lot. It’s not too late for Jim to make this right. But to be fair to Jim, if there really wasn't any way for those holes to have been drileld before leaving Jim's hands, I think Joshua would have to backpedal on one detail first. I don’t think that it is going to happen anymore than you think that Jim will help Joshua get what he really wants (wanted, paid for): cages that look like mine or even better than mine (if he gets to put those countersunk screws all the way around).
In my opinion, IF those panels really came to Joshua as Joshua says they did (countersunk holes), then after all this trouble, Joshua needs a HUGE apology and a full refund and a fully assembled, perfect cage, delivered free. If those panels were not already drilled, then Joshua “got what he got”. Not that I agree with the screws or scratched panel being skipped (I don’t agree with that AT ALL in fact)—but I am not sure how long it was before Joshua put that complaint in with Paypal because that was a bigger barrier for Jim to jump over and probably sealed the fate of the transaction.
Joshua, you don’t have to obviously. But I would appreciate knowing the information I asked about. I am certain nearly everyone here read your exchange with Jim and supported your position and I think that is a lot of protection for your reputation as an honest guy. I am the oddball so what do you have to lose?
And Jim, if you have more information to offer before Joshua buries you (or himself), why not offer it up and just get it over with so we can all move on?
charleshanklin
New member
Clay Josh wasn't just trying to get free panels. He offered to buy them am rat the extra cost so his cages were perfect. The price he was quoted for the panels was $100 each which was incredibly high and Jim said this was his cost for them. If you can handle math as well as grammar you will see that is a lie.
Jim did not send the screws as promised either. He changed his mind and told Josh to just go buy them himself. He didn't refund any portion for the inconvenience or the parts Josh needed. To me that's bad customer service.
The lights do not matter as Josh didn't want a refund for those. It's just a heads up that you get what you pay for which you admit they aren't exspensive lights anyway. The counter sunk holes are one big dead horse thy do not matter and have only caused senseless bickering.
Jim did not send the screws as promised either. He changed his mind and told Josh to just go buy them himself. He didn't refund any portion for the inconvenience or the parts Josh needed. To me that's bad customer service.
The lights do not matter as Josh didn't want a refund for those. It's just a heads up that you get what you pay for which you admit they aren't exspensive lights anyway. The counter sunk holes are one big dead horse thy do not matter and have only caused senseless bickering.
Hi Charles. From what I read in the emails, Jim was furious with Joshua who just wouldn't stop telling Jim that Jim drilled those holes when Jim (at least at the time the emails were flipping like hot cakes) thought that there was no way they could have shipped that way. It seemed like Jim returned fire with the "F" bomb when Joshua kept on telling Jim that Jim was a liar. It seemed to fly all over Jim.
I remember reading Jim's odd cost for a panel. I am interested in knowing the date and time of that quoted price in relationship to that first email exchange. Because it appeared to me that Joshua started by asking for replacement parts at no charge and then later changed his approach and offered to pay for them. I could have it wrong. But I doubt it.
Everything centers on those first emails and the sequence of what was said as Jim and Joshua communicated about the condition of the panels. There was an escalation and Joshua was making adjustments throughout the process. It reads like Joshua eventually offered to buy them and by that time it was too late as far as Jim was concerned (not that I totally agree with that either).
The countersunk holes are where this thing gets resolved. If Jim has rethought all this and it has occurred to him that the panels may have slipped through to Joshua, then Jim has a responsibility to Joshua and to all of us because that’s where everything went haywire. If Joshua is proven to have a motive to lie about those holes, then this whole situation changes and Jim is owned the apology. If that is that case, then in this thread, I am sure that Jim might be able to work something out with Joshua so long as Joshua offers up an apology and is willing to pay a reasonable price for the panels.
I remember reading Jim's odd cost for a panel. I am interested in knowing the date and time of that quoted price in relationship to that first email exchange. Because it appeared to me that Joshua started by asking for replacement parts at no charge and then later changed his approach and offered to pay for them. I could have it wrong. But I doubt it.
Everything centers on those first emails and the sequence of what was said as Jim and Joshua communicated about the condition of the panels. There was an escalation and Joshua was making adjustments throughout the process. It reads like Joshua eventually offered to buy them and by that time it was too late as far as Jim was concerned (not that I totally agree with that either).
The countersunk holes are where this thing gets resolved. If Jim has rethought all this and it has occurred to him that the panels may have slipped through to Joshua, then Jim has a responsibility to Joshua and to all of us because that’s where everything went haywire. If Joshua is proven to have a motive to lie about those holes, then this whole situation changes and Jim is owned the apology. If that is that case, then in this thread, I am sure that Jim might be able to work something out with Joshua so long as Joshua offers up an apology and is willing to pay a reasonable price for the panels.
Southern Wolf
I don't bite..... HARD!!!
Clay... did you also see how Jim tried to throw his own wife under the bus when things weren't going his way. Do you really want to stick up for a guy like that? Do you really want to be associated with a guy like that?
charleshanklin
New member
If they would of moved on from the countersunk holes and just stfu about it they wouldn't of spent needless time argueing over it and losing tempers. The real issue is the scratched panels and missing screws.
If you want to know that bad about timeline just look at the email sequece he posted.
At the end of the day Jim did NOT keep his word and that speaks volumes to me on his integrity. In business it's better to just be the bigger man.
The countersunk holes are NOT where this gets resolved. If they move past it then they can work on resolving the real issues.
If Josh owes Jim an apology then Jim owes him and the whole Fauna community one twice over for his actions here.
If you want to know that bad about timeline just look at the email sequece he posted.
At the end of the day Jim did NOT keep his word and that speaks volumes to me on his integrity. In business it's better to just be the bigger man.
The countersunk holes are NOT where this gets resolved. If they move past it then they can work on resolving the real issues.
If Josh owes Jim an apology then Jim owes him and the whole Fauna community one twice over for his actions here.
Em Wright
New member
I think this whole thing has just gotten insane. I'm all for people changing and coming around, but you know, Jim has quit posting in this thread again. I wouldn't be surprised if his one nice response was only to butter up a customer he didn't want to lose. I wish he'd prove me wrong, I really do, but I don't see that happening.
Jim has had plenty of opportunity to move on passed the frustration and make the real issues right. But Jim has shown time and again his blatant disrespect to anyone in this thread, even those who have spoken to him in a polite manner, and kicked dirt in all of our faces. You might think it's funny, but I find it offensive and repulsive that a person who claims to be a businessman stoops to the level of name calling and swearing, no matter his level of frustration. It's called having control, decency, and a sense of integrity. From his actions, I gather that Jim has none of those traits.
As to the issue of the countersunk holes... That's Josh's word against Jim's word. There's no solid proof that either of them didn't do it. Jim says he doesn't the right equipment, we can't be sure of that, he back-peddles and changes his story, has even admitted to lying in the past and felt justified to do so (sorry Jim, two wrongs don't make a right). Josh has a bit, but by his word it was purchased after he discovered that some holes were countersunk and others were not and the ones that weren't countersunk kept bulging and warping the plastic when screwed, as directed in the instructions. I think BOTH parties need to agree to disagree on this point and move on. Period. With no firm proof one way or another beating the issue over and over is never going to solve anything.
About the missing screws and caps and the damaged panels... I think Jim needs to do something about that. He needs to take a breath, collect himself, and get with Josh on how they can resolve those two issues. If Jim wants compensation for the replacement parts he needs to give Josh a reasonable estimate and then make good on it. I also think reimbursing Josh for the missing parts would also be necessary... as Josh paid for those and then had to buy them again elsewhere due to Jim's refusal to cough it up.
Of course, that's just my opinion. Take it or leave it. Josh may want to chalk it up to a loss and move on. I don't know. But some effort to reconcile on Jim's part would be nice to see.
Jim has had plenty of opportunity to move on passed the frustration and make the real issues right. But Jim has shown time and again his blatant disrespect to anyone in this thread, even those who have spoken to him in a polite manner, and kicked dirt in all of our faces. You might think it's funny, but I find it offensive and repulsive that a person who claims to be a businessman stoops to the level of name calling and swearing, no matter his level of frustration. It's called having control, decency, and a sense of integrity. From his actions, I gather that Jim has none of those traits.
As to the issue of the countersunk holes... That's Josh's word against Jim's word. There's no solid proof that either of them didn't do it. Jim says he doesn't the right equipment, we can't be sure of that, he back-peddles and changes his story, has even admitted to lying in the past and felt justified to do so (sorry Jim, two wrongs don't make a right). Josh has a bit, but by his word it was purchased after he discovered that some holes were countersunk and others were not and the ones that weren't countersunk kept bulging and warping the plastic when screwed, as directed in the instructions. I think BOTH parties need to agree to disagree on this point and move on. Period. With no firm proof one way or another beating the issue over and over is never going to solve anything.
About the missing screws and caps and the damaged panels... I think Jim needs to do something about that. He needs to take a breath, collect himself, and get with Josh on how they can resolve those two issues. If Jim wants compensation for the replacement parts he needs to give Josh a reasonable estimate and then make good on it. I also think reimbursing Josh for the missing parts would also be necessary... as Josh paid for those and then had to buy them again elsewhere due to Jim's refusal to cough it up.
Of course, that's just my opinion. Take it or leave it. Josh may want to chalk it up to a loss and move on. I don't know. But some effort to reconcile on Jim's part would be nice to see.
futureherpbreeder
Reptile Enthusiast
Wow, that was a lot of reading after a long day's work.. LOL
To reply to Clay: Only some of the holes were countersunk in the panels so one panel I wanted replaced had only pilot holes and the other had some pilot holes and some countersunk holes. In both cases the bulging only occured at the pilot hole sites. The pre-countersunk holes turned out nice. The pilot holes were too close to the edge. If you look at the pictures of the bulges, you will see the nice straight line up the side of the cage where the screw was too close to the exterior surface of the cage because of the location of the pilot hole, not due to my error.
We value our money very much having 3 children to support. My fiance also saved long and hard to help me buy these cages for my birthday. This was no small purchase for us. I have also been a carpenter many years throughout my life and have always been praised on my quality jobs. So when I got the cages I took great care in assembling them. Following Jim's directions, no matter how delicately I installed the screws into the pilot holes I noticed the bulging of the material. Then when I installed the screws into the countersunk holes I noticed there was no bulging. This made me concerned enough to contact Jim wondering if he overlooked the holes that weren't countersunk because I assumed they should have all been that way since the countersunk ones weren't bulging and were nice and flush for when you put the screw hole covers on. Imagine my surprise when Jim tells me he doesn't countersink any of them and to me this is obviously a lie because I'm looking right at them. So I try to offer Jim a bone and say maybe his wife accidently did it or maybe these panels were part of a customer return, but he just keeps denying what I can plainly see with my own two eyes to be true. Everything Jim says loses credibility for me after this.
What I really think most likely happened is someone started to assemble the cages and then took them back apart. This is my best guess at how that happened if Jim really doesn't own a countersink bit: Maybe Jim's wife (he says she can barely hold a drill bit straight) partially assembled a cage to hold it together so her pilot holes would line up properly, or maybe an unhappy customer returned partially constructed cage parts for a refund and I got those. (maybe they saw the bulging because of the pilot holes and didn't like it either) All I can tell you is that they came straight out of the box that way and my fiance was sitting right there with me for the whole process and saw exactly what I saw.
I think we both got a little caught up in the countersunk arguement quite frankly, but that arguement does matter because the ones he didn't countersink caused damage no matter how gently I assembled the cages and that is what I wanted him to understand. I went out and spent more money to buy a bit to countersink the rest of the holes so that the rest of the cages looked good. That was the only way to assemble Jim's "quality" cages without them looking like crap.
The big indents in the exact same 2 spots on 4 panels were identical so this leads me to believe the surface he cut them on had something on it that did this. If Jim would like to try to remedy this, I would still like those 4 indented panels replaced and certainly don't think I should have to pay for them, he sent them to me that way. The main thing I want replaced though, are the bulged panels from the pilot holes being too small and too close to the edge which is also not my fault. I would also like to be reimbursed for the screws I had to buy and it would be super nice if he replaced the faulty lights. He has quoted other people for panels at $3.50 a square foot so it would be $63 total to replace the 6 panels (not over a hundred each like he tried to tell me - caught him in a big lie there!) and I checked online and shipping would only be around $17 USPS parcel post. (not 50 bucks like he said) He could fix this problem for under a hundred bucks.
Although I was once willing to pay for these parts myself just to have perfect cages, after some time has passed I now realize that would be completely ridiculous since I already paid him for perfect brand new parts and he should just send them to me and be done with this. I don't think I will get any of this and I will just have to settle myself to being satisfied with spreading the word about this experience to fellow herp lovers and watching Jim shoot himself in the foot over and over again.
Josh Carlson
To reply to Clay: Only some of the holes were countersunk in the panels so one panel I wanted replaced had only pilot holes and the other had some pilot holes and some countersunk holes. In both cases the bulging only occured at the pilot hole sites. The pre-countersunk holes turned out nice. The pilot holes were too close to the edge. If you look at the pictures of the bulges, you will see the nice straight line up the side of the cage where the screw was too close to the exterior surface of the cage because of the location of the pilot hole, not due to my error.
We value our money very much having 3 children to support. My fiance also saved long and hard to help me buy these cages for my birthday. This was no small purchase for us. I have also been a carpenter many years throughout my life and have always been praised on my quality jobs. So when I got the cages I took great care in assembling them. Following Jim's directions, no matter how delicately I installed the screws into the pilot holes I noticed the bulging of the material. Then when I installed the screws into the countersunk holes I noticed there was no bulging. This made me concerned enough to contact Jim wondering if he overlooked the holes that weren't countersunk because I assumed they should have all been that way since the countersunk ones weren't bulging and were nice and flush for when you put the screw hole covers on. Imagine my surprise when Jim tells me he doesn't countersink any of them and to me this is obviously a lie because I'm looking right at them. So I try to offer Jim a bone and say maybe his wife accidently did it or maybe these panels were part of a customer return, but he just keeps denying what I can plainly see with my own two eyes to be true. Everything Jim says loses credibility for me after this.
What I really think most likely happened is someone started to assemble the cages and then took them back apart. This is my best guess at how that happened if Jim really doesn't own a countersink bit: Maybe Jim's wife (he says she can barely hold a drill bit straight) partially assembled a cage to hold it together so her pilot holes would line up properly, or maybe an unhappy customer returned partially constructed cage parts for a refund and I got those. (maybe they saw the bulging because of the pilot holes and didn't like it either) All I can tell you is that they came straight out of the box that way and my fiance was sitting right there with me for the whole process and saw exactly what I saw.
I think we both got a little caught up in the countersunk arguement quite frankly, but that arguement does matter because the ones he didn't countersink caused damage no matter how gently I assembled the cages and that is what I wanted him to understand. I went out and spent more money to buy a bit to countersink the rest of the holes so that the rest of the cages looked good. That was the only way to assemble Jim's "quality" cages without them looking like crap.
The big indents in the exact same 2 spots on 4 panels were identical so this leads me to believe the surface he cut them on had something on it that did this. If Jim would like to try to remedy this, I would still like those 4 indented panels replaced and certainly don't think I should have to pay for them, he sent them to me that way. The main thing I want replaced though, are the bulged panels from the pilot holes being too small and too close to the edge which is also not my fault. I would also like to be reimbursed for the screws I had to buy and it would be super nice if he replaced the faulty lights. He has quoted other people for panels at $3.50 a square foot so it would be $63 total to replace the 6 panels (not over a hundred each like he tried to tell me - caught him in a big lie there!) and I checked online and shipping would only be around $17 USPS parcel post. (not 50 bucks like he said) He could fix this problem for under a hundred bucks.
Although I was once willing to pay for these parts myself just to have perfect cages, after some time has passed I now realize that would be completely ridiculous since I already paid him for perfect brand new parts and he should just send them to me and be done with this. I don't think I will get any of this and I will just have to settle myself to being satisfied with spreading the word about this experience to fellow herp lovers and watching Jim shoot himself in the foot over and over again.
Josh Carlson
Robert Potts
Robert Andrew Potts
Clay it's obvious your standard's of what is considered descent are much, much, much lower than the majority of those who frequent the BOI. By your own word's you find what this idiot is saying to be funny and entertaining and this in my opinion makes you as bad as the idiot this thread is about. I bet you wouldn't find his behavior funny or entertaining if he spoke or treated your mom or grandmother the way he spoke and treated Joshua. I'll be the first to admit I'm not as smart, educated or as gifted at writing the english language as you Clay but at least I know when someone is a dirt bag and a serious cancer to the herp community. Your open ended support of this person regardless of what he does and say's wil someday come back to haunt you.
Southern Wolf
I don't bite..... HARD!!!
Robert... Im sure it already has. He just doesn't know it yet.
If Jim could get you fixed for under $130 he should probably give you the hook up. Jim needs the last page of this thread to end on a good note. And the truth is that those pilot screws were a problem. Your pics do prove that and Jim understands what you meant. In fact, I think all future cages I buy from Jim will be chemical welded. He does make some really nice cages doesn't he? But he does need to get you hooked up. If you like the cages more than his competitor’s cages, and if you are anything like me, you just might buy another cage from him if he assembles it and inspects it very well before shipping. And with you I am certain that he would do that exact thing.
Jim, if you get this guy straight, my gut is that he will probably bring some business your way if he knows you assemble the cages prior and inspect them for the issues he had with his order. The pilot screws can be problematic. I thought there were indentions in some of my panels too but to be honest I can't see them so they were probably in a place that are not noticeable. The lights going out and the screws being missing...those kind of make it easier to justify fixing this instead of walking away leaving him wishing his cages were perfect.
Jim, he shouldn’t have jumped the gun with Paypal. But he was sort of backed into the wall and I am sure you might have done the same thing if you were in his shoes.
Joshua, the facts surrounding your argument with Jim do make it seem like you were trying to return an item and knew that Jim would make an excuse if you had already "drilled all over it". But you know? There is the right thing here when it all comes down to it and that is that you really did probably have over $100 worth of problems and hassle. Even if we count interest for the time it has taken to get your complaints resolved, as a customer, you have earned at least a couple bones to be thrown your way right?
Jim. You want business. You want business. You want business. If your cages are as good as you say they are, and I as well, people will buy those cages if they know you do take care of your buyers one way or another. It really is in your court and some people might be crossing their fingers right now that you do what seems like the right thing. What I am saying is that you have the ball. Look at the hoop and decide if you want to toss it in the basket and make some money.
Joshua I backed out a screw here and took some pics and they look a lot like your countersunk pics. I could post them but the more I think about it I think it doesn't matter anymore. My pics only proved that a countersunk hole and a “used” pilot hole look identical when you back the screw out. Maybe there was some strange circumstance that didn't involve a drill bit at all that caused those holes. It's possible...even it might seem improbable to both you and Jim.
Lastly Jim, if you know of any reason why those two panels may have slipped through to Joshua causing a lot of confusion for both of you, even if they might have only looked like countersunk holes but weren't, Joshua needs more than just a couple bones. It’s better to get it right the way you know it needs to be if you later figured out what happened but it was too late to do anything with it.
I think Joshua deserves to have some cages he is proud of and PVC Cages look damn good when they are build right. I think Joshua is a customer who has the skill to make those cages look great and if he feels good about those cages when he looks at them, he will know what a pain in the a$$ it was to get them looking so good, but he will remember who designed them and I have no doubt that he will tell people. Don't you want him showing off pics of his cages Jim? Smack him with some love for a change and let’s be done with it. Does that sound like a better plan?
Robert, buy one of this guys cages (prebuilt!) and you wouldn't be saying everything you said in that last post. It's okay though. You won't know until you know so who could expect you to say otherwise? It's cool
Jim, if you get this guy straight, my gut is that he will probably bring some business your way if he knows you assemble the cages prior and inspect them for the issues he had with his order. The pilot screws can be problematic. I thought there were indentions in some of my panels too but to be honest I can't see them so they were probably in a place that are not noticeable. The lights going out and the screws being missing...those kind of make it easier to justify fixing this instead of walking away leaving him wishing his cages were perfect.
Jim, he shouldn’t have jumped the gun with Paypal. But he was sort of backed into the wall and I am sure you might have done the same thing if you were in his shoes.
Joshua, the facts surrounding your argument with Jim do make it seem like you were trying to return an item and knew that Jim would make an excuse if you had already "drilled all over it". But you know? There is the right thing here when it all comes down to it and that is that you really did probably have over $100 worth of problems and hassle. Even if we count interest for the time it has taken to get your complaints resolved, as a customer, you have earned at least a couple bones to be thrown your way right?
Jim. You want business. You want business. You want business. If your cages are as good as you say they are, and I as well, people will buy those cages if they know you do take care of your buyers one way or another. It really is in your court and some people might be crossing their fingers right now that you do what seems like the right thing. What I am saying is that you have the ball. Look at the hoop and decide if you want to toss it in the basket and make some money.
Joshua I backed out a screw here and took some pics and they look a lot like your countersunk pics. I could post them but the more I think about it I think it doesn't matter anymore. My pics only proved that a countersunk hole and a “used” pilot hole look identical when you back the screw out. Maybe there was some strange circumstance that didn't involve a drill bit at all that caused those holes. It's possible...even it might seem improbable to both you and Jim.
Lastly Jim, if you know of any reason why those two panels may have slipped through to Joshua causing a lot of confusion for both of you, even if they might have only looked like countersunk holes but weren't, Joshua needs more than just a couple bones. It’s better to get it right the way you know it needs to be if you later figured out what happened but it was too late to do anything with it.
I think Joshua deserves to have some cages he is proud of and PVC Cages look damn good when they are build right. I think Joshua is a customer who has the skill to make those cages look great and if he feels good about those cages when he looks at them, he will know what a pain in the a$$ it was to get them looking so good, but he will remember who designed them and I have no doubt that he will tell people. Don't you want him showing off pics of his cages Jim? Smack him with some love for a change and let’s be done with it. Does that sound like a better plan?
Robert, buy one of this guys cages (prebuilt!) and you wouldn't be saying everything you said in that last post. It's okay though. You won't know until you know so who could expect you to say otherwise? It's cool
Southern Wolf
I don't bite..... HARD!!!
why would you want to give someone your money that has a major attitude problem when you can get the same if not better quality cage somewhere else... and even with less attitude?
There is two things that make a business a success.
Quality Product --- Jim's is questionable at best.
Quality Customer Service -- Jim has no customer service.
Once again... why do you keep backing him with the information that has been put forth. Are you trying to get a discount on your next cage from Jim?
Em Wright
New member
I find it frustrating when people automatically assume the worst about a person or their motives. At this point I see Clay as trying to encourage Jim to step up and take care of his customer. I don't see anything wrong with that.
Snide comments like that don't help anyone, they only escalate negative emotions and make coming to a conclusion more difficult.
Robert Potts
Robert Andrew Potts
Clay you've made it abundantly clear that ones' character, moral's, value's(or lack there of) has no bearing what so ever on who you will do business with. What you find cute, funny and no big deal is an enormous mental defect to me and most other's. As mentioned previously your standard's for whom you will do business are much, much lower than the majority of poster's on this site. To be blunt this idiot is a psycho who should be run out of town with only his britches on to hopefully fade away to nothing and you sent to find him. Last what an *ss you are for implying that I'm some how towing the party line, not capable of forming my own opinion simply because I haven't purchased a cage.
Southern Wolf
I don't bite..... HARD!!!
Em, Clay has been backing Jim from the get go.... even when he had all the history (I think thanks to your efforts and links) he still even said he would buy from Jim. So my question is a valid one to try and get to the bottom of him holding fast in defense of Jim.
You are correct that Clay is trying to get Jim to do the right thing... and I applaud Clay for that. We have all been trying to get Jim to do the right thing. But I have to question his other motives about sticking up for Jim.
You are correct that Clay is trying to get Jim to do the right thing... and I applaud Clay for that. We have all been trying to get Jim to do the right thing. But I have to question his other motives about sticking up for Jim.