I just thought that this illustrates just how pompASS Joe Polanco can be. The following is an exchange between him and Jeff B about a year ago...Joe distributed this to many over the internet no doubt editing it to his favor but it still pretty much shows what kind of person we're dealing with...This is about the time Joe broke off and started his own forums...
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Jan: 29th 2001
JMP to Jeff B.
Jeff:
It's time for another chat.
Please call, when you have a minute.
Jan: 29th 2001
Jeff B. to JMP
What about?
Jan: 29th 2001
JMP to Jeff B.
I'll call, the phone is lot friendlier medium.
I'm cleaning cages and will call soon.
Jan: 29th 2001
Jeff B. to JMP
No I think that this is best left by email.
You are posting ads for your arboreal classifieds in our
boa & python sections, the rules for which explicity
state that said sections are for posting animals for
sale wanted or trade ONLY.Your ads did NOT
have any specific animals for sale, no prices, no pictures.
In effect your are using OUR classifieds not to sell
YOUR animals but to sell animals FOR OTHERS
via our classifieds, others that are NOT registered
classified account holders, thereby allowing others
to circumvent the abuse/theft deterence of our
registration system and creating a security hole that
subjects us to any FTC violations and/or fraud
complaints that YOUR users might cause on your system
as well as allowing others the access to our classified traffic
without paying for it.
You are no longer using our classifieds to sell animals
but to sell your own competing services (even if they are free).
Not only did we not agree to let you do this, we asked you to stop
three times. We have NEVER allowed vendors to sell competing
classified services or hosting services on our site, nor are we
under ANY obligation to do so. To do so would be to allow
you to directly take revenues from our business through
loss of new account revenues and open us up to fraud and theft
complaints that we have no recourse or ability to resolve.
You have been warned 3 times, including last night, that you
were violating the site rules, and after the warning last night
you again attempted to post an ad for your classifieds.
While you may post animals YOU SPECIFICALLY have for sale
you may in no way shape or form advertise your competing service
(i.e. your classifieds or your arboreal site)on any of our services,
classifieds or forums.
If it happens again we will invoke the following clauses of our Terms
of Service, terms you agreed to...
* kingsnake.com reserves the right to terminate any account or refuse
service at our discretion.
You have rules and terms on your classifieds that you enforce,
so do we.
Jan: 29th 2001
JMP to Jeff B.
Jeff:
In so far as what you have posted below, No Problem.
However lets get a few things straight.
Your automated message does not constitute a warning. My site address is NOT
in anyway shape or form a violation of your T.O.S. unless you decide to
change them which is certainly within the your rights as your caveat states.
If you wish me to NOT do a thing, then have the common courtesy to address
me personally as to the specifics of the request. I am not a robot, nor do I
intend to be governed by one or as if I were one. I would have thought our
previous issue would have already established that point.
Have I shown myself to be an unreasonable or unsympathetic person to you in
anyway? Was it not a phone conversation initiated by me that saved you
$1000's of dollars? Do you think I OWED you that? I did it because it was
the right thing to do. I listened to your perspectives, was enlightenend and
agreed. I did recieve my requested new court date as I assured you I would. I then wrote the
court and dropped the issue also as I promised. I have honored every aspect
of our agreement to the letter. You on the other hand have completely
ignored one of the primary terms of that agreement. Allowing the defamatory
message on the Tree Boa Forum Is Closed page to remain up, contrary to your
word to remove it is I'm sure what, an oversite? Furthermore you have
allowed Trooper Walsh to continue his assault on my character on your
Chondro Python Forum. I know for a fact that you received complaints about
these as I have been CC'd the messages myself by the individuals who wrote them.
Have I as much as uttered a word to you about it? Have I ever posted in ANY
of your forums? NO , I have not. We are both completely aware that I am
fully capable of posting on any of them at any time I choose, but I have
not. I am an honorable man and keep my word.
In future if you wish to request of me that I NOT do a thing, please have
the decency to ask.
What is it with you? Do you really LOVE confrontation? Apparently so. I had
no desire to have this escalate at all. I wanted to hear from you what was
going on in a friendly decent manner. I was going to spend my dime on a 5
minute call to get an understanding of the whole thing. Apparently you
don't feel a need to be courteous. Fine, you want to be officious, I'll
play. It costs very little for me to seek relief and I would think you
would have understood that by now. If not, apparently that lesson must not
have been as clear as I hoped.
Try Ruling benevolently, it eats up a lot less energy and resources and you
might actually make a friend or two along the way.
Best Regards
Jan: 29th 2001
Jeff B. to JMP
I sent you 2 emails personally asking that you not
post your classified ad ads. See below:
( Two inserted message texts. Both politely requesting that I (jmp) not post Classified or Forum ads. )
I can send them individually so you can review the header info
but we did in fact send 2 emails asking that you stop.
We asked politely TWICE and you still did it. So we sent you a warning
last night and AGAIN you did it. I am not looking for a confrontation
but from your continued posting of the ads after being asked politely
TWICE and then warned I can only assume that you do seek a confrontation.
The boa forum index not being pulled was a simple mistake on our part
due to lack of staffing and overwork and this is the first I was aware
that it was still up. As well I can not find any email from you telling us it
was still up.
As to the posts you refer to by Mr. Walsh, we have told you that the
proper method for dealing with forum posts is to file a formal complaint
by email. As you recall thats how this got started in the first place.
Send us complaints with specific posts and we will deal with them.
If complaints were made that did not refer to specific posts we cannot
remove them. If you have copies of those complaints please forward them
to me and I will review them again.
Jan: 29th 2001
JMP to Jeff B.
Jeff:
My apologies for not having received either. I have no idea why I didn't get
them but the fact remains. Had I received them I certainly would certainly
have contacted you. At the very least I would have returned the emails.
Please accept my apology for continuing to post after the date of the first
email. Just a suggestion, but in future you might request a return
confirmation on such correspondence.
I am actually gratified that such is the case. Another simple case of
misunderstandings, generated via email. This is a prime example of the very
reason I detest doing business in this manner. Even for people like me who
have been in the electronic age since it's inception, releasing old values
of a handshake and a real voice on the phone are hard to part with.
Thank you for your timely response.
Joe P.
Feb: 27th 2001
Jeff B. to JMP
Please stop posting advertisements for your cages in the
Boa & Python Classifieds. Those sections are strictly for
animals. You can post the ads in the cage section but not
the animal sections. Those are strictly for animals. We are
not singleing you out, we are removing all non-animal ads from
the animal sections.
Subject:
Re: Cage Ads
Date:
Fri, 23 Feb 2001 13:38:44 -0600
From:
Jeff Barringer <
[email protected]>
To:
[email protected]
Please stop posting advertisements for your cages in the
Boa & Python Classifieds. Those sections are strictly for
animals. You can post the ads in the cage section but not
the animal sections. Those are strictly for animals. We are
not singleing you out, we are removing all non-animal ads from
the animal sections.
Feb: 27th 2001
JMP to Jeff B.
Jeff:
I don't want to create another problem, but I do want to market my enclosures to people who want to see them. I
have not done this falsely by advertising an animal I don't own and then putting my products behind it as in this
ad http://www.kingsnake.com/market/boid/messages/20660.html . I would never have mentioned it, but I
can't imagine that you have taken it upon yourself to call me on the carpet for having placed my ad in the Boa
and Python pages without first having had it brought to your attention by some obviously disgruntled party. So, if
I am to not be allowed to advertise these enclosures in places where people I know will be interested in them
will see them and in which the response has been tremendously well received and interest in them has been very
high I will begin calling many of such ads to your attention.
Why for instance should I, and individual hobbist, be required to compete with XXXXXXXX, a commercial retail
chain, when there is clearly a Commercial Dealer section? I think it would be a diservice if you forbid them to
advertise in the Boa or Python or whatever section. By the same token, I feel it's a diservice by forbiding me to.
Do I have to post some lead in ad for some animal and then follow it with my enclosures? Why should that be
necessary? You can get as picky as you like, but please show some discretion. Tell the whiners to piss off. This
is clearly a no harm no foul situation.
I'm anxious to hear your thoughts although I know your time is limited.
Thanks
Joe P.
Feb: 27th 2001
Jeff B. to JMP
Joe....
The rules for the classified sections are specific. If its not an animal it doesn't belong in that section.
Your posts were not reported to me, I patrol the classifieds daily. If you see ANY non-animal ads in the animal
section please do call them to our attention and they will be removed.
As I said in my email we are not singleing you out, we have sent over 100 such emails over the past 30 days and
have removed appx 300 non-animal ads.
The commercial section is a no holds barred area where any business can post any ad they like, and as many ads
as they like as long as the ads are herp related in some format. We don't make a distinction
between a hobbyist and commercial vendors. If you post something for sale that makes you a business. We do
not prevent or forbid businesses from advertising in the other sections, nor do we prevent hobbyists from posting
in the commercial section, but we do limit posts to all sections BUT the commercial section to 3 posts per day,
and all ads have to be topic specific in those sections.
CHRONOLOGIC NOTATION:
At this point several non-incidental days passed. On March 3rd I again posted an ad, this ad I composed
for usniveral use on several classifeds. It contain a pair of animal I was selling AND an ad for my cage
line.
This ad was deleted in lue of the fact that there were ads both before it and after it containing
specifically CAGES. Subsequently the ad was customized specifically for KS and yet was deleted 3
more times, the last of which was a simple “reference” mentioning IF anyone needed a cage in which
to keep their new acquisition (the snake I was advertising) to visit my ad in the Kingsnake Caging
section. Even such a benign reference as this was deleted, but, all around ads advertising everything
from misting systems to pro-biotics were allowed to stand unquestioned. Admittedly this got under my
skin and the following email exchange ensued.
Mar: 6th 2001
JMP to Jeff B.
Jeff:
As long as others on your forum are mentioning non-snake items I am going to do so also.
This is simply to inform you. You have had a hard on for me for quite a while and I guess that it's only going to
be resolved one way. If this is what you want, then I'm game.
Don't remove any more of my ads as long as a single one is allowed to remain that mentions in any way shape or
from anything other than a snake. No "come visit my site" no "don't forget to buy this" no "please check out"
.....nothing. I won't be harrassed without it costing you. I've had enough. I have abided by the agreement, you have
not.
Any further infringment on my posts will cost you some legal fees, and I think you know I'm not kidding.
Mar: 7th 2001
Jeff B. to JMP
NO sir....
Just because others are violating the rules as well does NOT give you the permission to violate them.
You have now posted cage ads twice in the boid section and attempted to post an ad for your classifieds after
you had been asked not to. I have records of over 10 requests sent to you to politely stop.
Additionally I am also aware of your SPAMMING users of our service with ads for your competing service
directly from our classifieds.
If I hear/see of any of these again I will terminate your account and if you want to pursue it further thats fine. I
am not going to be pushed around by you any longer. I will bankrupt this business fighting you on this if I have to
but I am telling you, you don't want to cross that line sir.
I may not have any money but I will spend every penny I have in this business fighting you on this. This is my
web site not yours. Its not yours to make the rules, or to violate the rules.
Mar: 7th 2001
JMP to Jeff B.
Jeff:
Consider your next move carefully. There will be no second retractions. You will accomplish nothing. I will
continue to SPAM (as you put it) your users. I will simply use alternate posting address jump pages to post my
ads all over every forum you have. You'll see 10 times more of me than you ever did.
YES sir.....
I will do exactly that.
YES sir......
If you want to play this hand out... CONSIDER ME IN!!!!....
Mar: 7th 2001
JMP to Jeff B.
Jeff:
I didn't read your entire post...
Let me invite you to terminate my account right not because I fully intend to post whatever I wish whereever I
wish as long as in my estimation, I am being singled out.
You WILL get your wish and your opportunity to make as many lawyers wealthy as you like.
It is I who no longer intend to sowcow to your little empire mainia. If you believe the rest of this business
community is here to have you delegate to it, you're about to learn an expensive lesson.
I on the other hand am not.
I'm am an individual. As such, not required to answer to any out of state claims filed against me.
You on the other hand are a corporation, required by federal statue to answer all claims via registered legal
agent in the state of the claim.
Its going to cost me $32.00 and a little bit of my time. Time very well spent I might ad, as I will handly win a
judgement for damages almost without constest. You see, you by law MUST be fair and equitable, even if I don't
chose to be.
You choose the road. I'll travel either. I have attempted to be polite, respectful and cooperative. However, I am
in this for the money, not to make you happy. You want a piece of me... No XXXXXXX (edited out as this
explitive was inappropriate for underaged readers) problem pally.
See your boy in court, unless you actually choose to be SMART for once.
Of course...that would be too #### much to ask.
Joe P.
Mar: 7th 2001
Jeff B. to JMP
Sir...
My next move is to continue to follow the posted classified site policy. If you choose to violate that policy
again, after being sent numerous warnings, warnings that many others have received, and responding
with threats, then I will have no choice but to continue to follow our policy, and terminate your account.
You will spend your money and file another lawsuit. I in response will do the same. Based on the documentation
you have sent below, you have just made a terroristic threat against our internet business and its users, and
customers, one that may be prosecutable under the Federal National Infrastructure Protection Act. If you proceed
with your threat we will have no choice but to file a criminal complaint with the FBI.
At this point Joe I have nothing to lose. I don't really care anymore and I want to go out in a blaze of glory, the
more public the better. If your the guy that wants to hand me the match and the gasoline
thats fine, but remember I'm going to take you with me. Just think, you'll be famous, or wait, thats INFAMOUS
isn't it.
Mar: 7th 2001
JMP to Jeff B.
Like I said son....
I'm gonna do what I'm gonna do.. and you do whatever blows your skit up.
The more infamous you make me, the more traffic my site gets.
It's simply a rule of the internet. Site traffic sell ad space.
You have a lovely day.
BTW Threatening court action isn't considerd terroristic, and your rules do not constitue the rule of law.
Just in case you didn't know.
Have fun at the FBI site. I'll see you very expensive attorney in downtown Cincinnati.
Blaze away, there will be someone standing right there ready to fill the spot, of that you can be certain.
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