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    Google Adsense ad revenue for December, 2025 was just $30 over the cost of the lease for the server running this site. So, in effect, the money providing the incentive for me to continue running this site is coming SOLELY from the paid memberships and sponsorships here. Which honestly ain't much....

Ken of Exotic Pets in Las Vegas*BAD*

I think it's rediculous that Ken should take any percentge of the blame here when the animals were improperly packed. Let's look at the logistics of shipping to the desert....

For those of you who live out there you know that temps swing in a BIG way in a 24 hour period. Evenings in the desert are quite cool while the days are incredibly hot during the summer. This means those animals could possibly experience a 30-40 degree difference at any point of arrival...something most animals (especially young ones with no body mass) couldn't easily handle when coupled with stress. This would tell me to package the animals in a way that would thermo-insulate them as best possible. Especially since temps at the departure point were in the 60's-70's as Bobby stated.

Bottom line is if the animals were properly packaged with styrofoam lining (industry standard) their chances of survival would be much higher regardless of when the delivery was made. They were never afforded that chance since they were improperly packaged and exposed to some very extreme conditions therefore the fauly lies 100% with the shipper, especially one with a shaky shipping past at best.

For Ken to be held responsible or expected to pay for anything is just REDICULOUS. And the fact that Bobby Pruett is logged in and reading this in and not answering is just more proof of where the fault lies.
 
I would have to guess this is why there are soooo many lawyers and the courts are soo backed up. NO one can agree on anything..

:puke:

Shawn Morelan
 
"They were never afforded that chance since they were improperly packaged and exposed to some very extreme conditions therefore the fauly lies 100% with the shipper"

Danny, you are absolutely correct in that statement. If Ken had been there to receive shipment at the first attempt, and the snakes were dead, there would be no question at all as to whom was 100% to blame. However, that is not the way it happened, and it is not Bobby's fault that FedEx tried to deliver to Ken's chosen address before Ken was ready for them to do so.

You have to ask yourself, if Ken had given Bobby his home address for delivery, or if Ken had gone to the shop early for some reason, is it POSSIBLE that the animals would still be alive? If so, then you have to take that into account to some degree, it seems. LOTS of shippers, myself included, do not extend guarantees to those who are not there to receive shipment on the first try.

That's the ONLY thing that ISN'T Bobby's fault, but it is somewhat of a mitigating factor in this situation. At least, it is in my opinion.
 
Ken not being there at eight forty five really can't be called Ken's fault either... Bobby never mentioned which shipping company he would be using, slight issue there but...

Big issue- Bobby never labeled the package as containing live animals, perishable goods or anything else (say... "Fragile, avoid extreme temps") that would have prompted the delivery driver to either call the number for emergencies/deliveries that IS posted on Ken's front door and DOES get used when live shipments arrive at funny times. Couple this with the craptacular packaging job that's either ignorant or negligent (only two choices) where the temps are concerned and the issue is placed right back in Bobby's lap.

I loitered around Ken's shop for a few weeks last Thanksgiving, delivery drivers with a package clearly marked "Live animals" or even "Perishable" do call the number on the door and he IS at the shop within five minutes to sign for and reccieve the package... early shipments aren't an issue when marked properly.

Unmarked boxes are assumed to be magazines or dry fishfood, drivers will attempt redelivery sometime during the marked business hours, when they have something else in the neighborhood.

Once again, there is really no fault whatsoever on Ken here... But Ken still was willing to take on some burden of culpability just for entering into the transaction and was the only one to offer anything reasonable... or at least seemed willing to discuss it... Bobby thus far has, despite being clearly in the wrong here, there isn't much debate over that, everyone seems to put the majority of it on him if not the entire thing (Really, it's the entire thing) and all he has done so far is imply that he wants the animals that he would have gotten had he not F!@#$ed up the shipping so badly.

So...

Bobby, can't ship, can't accept responsibility, wants others to pay for his stupid mistakes. Has a history of bad shipping, bad animals and no ability to work with anyone or admit his guilt and culpability.

Ken, nice guy willing to try to at least work towards a compromise (not bend over and take it to give someone something they don't deserve, but work towards a compromise) despite being called a bad guy when not even given a chance to respond. Has a history of being a good guy who is honest, up front and knowledgeable (won't ship animals inside ovens) for longer than some equally respectable people have been alive, much less in the business.

Hmmm... tough call figuring out which one is worth doing business with, isn't it?

I know which one I trust, I guess it's up to the rest of you to make up your own minds.
 
Big issue- Bobby never labeled the package as containing live animals, perishable goods or anything else (say... "Fragile, avoid extreme temps") that would have prompted the delivery driver to either call the number for emergencies/deliveries that IS posted on Ken's front door and DOES get used when live shipments arrive at funny times
Click to expand...

Should read "arrive at funny times or attempt an earlier redelivery and keep the box out of the back of the truck/van where it's likely 140 degrees by noon."

If the box was labeled properly, then the number would have been called or the driver would have come back before ten AM. The box wasn't, the driver didn't... The animals riding around in a van during the hottest part of the day is Bobby's fault. Ken would have gotten the package at eight fifty if it had been marked.

Just wrote that incorrectly, I'm long winded and unable to stop typing to the point where I forgot what I was saying halfway through writing a sentence.
 
Big issue- Bobby never labeled the package as containing live animals, perishable goods or anything else (say... "Fragile, avoid extreme temps") that would have prompted the delivery driver to either call the number for emergencies/deliveries that IS posted on Ken's front door and DOES get used when live shipments arrive at funny times
Click to expand...

Extremely bad packaging, bad labeling, bad all round job on the seller's part.

I know I won't be buying from seller's who do this and then can't admit their own mistake because of their *BIG* head!
 
Sorry guys

I did not know you could not get an ETA with the tracking # through Fed Ex.


But I feel that this whole deal went bad on both ends. starting with Bobby and ending with Ken. Bobby did not pack the best and Ken was not there to sign for the snakes.

I do not believe the blame falls on one person. Both parties should have been more into the deal. If you get what I mean. Ken should have made sure that he told Bobby about the weather and to pack a certian way. And Bobby should have let Ken know about the early arrival date.

none of this happened so I think it is up to Ken and Bobby now....to work this out!

But I do not see either as a bad guy....
 
Hey Gary,

I agree with you 100% here. The fault definately lies with BOTH parties involved. A terrible packing/labeling job coupled with taking the chance in 115 degree heat has the blame with both in my eyes. Suck it up guys and split it:D
 
This thread has a life of it's own. Split the loss guys and move on. Shippers on this end won't call. If you miss first attempt, your lucky to get a second on the same day. You can have them hold at the local hub for pickup.

Mike Conley
 
A package that is not marked in anyway telling that its contents are live animals is ridiculous. What could you possibly be thinking just throwing them in an unmarked box into the desert during summer? No insulation or cold packs?
Even without any real box preparation, he wouldve probably been called if the package was marked. I would just suck it up and take a good look at my own shipping practices.
Thanks, Tom Baker
 
http://www.weather.com/outlook/travel/detail/USNV0049?dayNum=1

O.K. to those guys who thought that Ken and Bobby should split the lost, although I can't get the temperature of the day the incident occured, the link above will take you guys to the temperature chart in Las Vegas for tomorrow. 82F at 6:00 a.m. and 92F at 9:00 a.m. You can do a test on your own by sitting in a car at temperature in range 82F to 87F with windows are up, no air condition for at least half an hour to two hours. Then come back here to post your experience, and let's see if your opinions are still split the lost 50/50. That's the condition the snakes were suffering - in side two plastic containers, which were inside of a carton box w/ no mean of insulator, which were inside of a truck bed w/ no air conditioner for almost two hours (they were first attempt delivered at 8:45 a.m., and the driver start loading their stuff at 7:00 a.m., 4:30 a.m. maybe - I have a brother-in-law who worked for UPS.) I would said those two poor snakes were already cooked at 8:45 a.m. Agree????
 
Ken should have made sure that he told Bobby about the weather and to pack a certian way.
Click to expand...

You've got to be joking! I find it rediculous that someone needs to be told what the weather is like in Vegas in the summer! Bobby has been around and should know how to pack by now and I am sure he does know what the weather is like at that time of year.

The box should of been marked "perishable goods keep out of heat" or to that affect, but that was not done, which is rediculous!

This mess could of been worked out instead of Bobby running to the BOI before Ken could even reply to his offer of how he wanted to handle it.
 
I have to agree. The idea that Ken was responsible for telling Bobby what the weather was going to be like in Las Vegas in July is silly. If Bobby is the long term shipper that he claims to be, he should know better than to ship in the manners he has adopted. He doesn't, and that tells us something about Bobby, Huh?
 
If Bobby is the long term shipper that he claims to be, he should know better than to ship in the manners he has adopted. He doesn't, and that tells us something about Bobby, Huh?
Click to expand...

I would have to say that I personally would be *VERY* hesitant to buy from Bobby. Someone that can't be bothered to pack animals properly or inform you when to expect them or what shipping company they are coming from is *NOT* good business person!

It borders on pure negligence!

I have had people ship things to me, but never notify me they are coming! Fortunately I have been home at the times these animals arrived, but it is very irritating dealing with people like this.
 
Darin,
ThanksI see more clearly now. Or should I say I am even more confused.

Because now I can see it going both ways.

As the shipper....if you give me a place to ship to....you should be there.

As the buyer.....While it is true I should not have to open up early for one ousy shipment.....I should be at that place to receive animals I had sent to that place.

But if he was there.....would the animals be alive?
ause wheather they were there at 8:45 or at 1:00. Bottom line...
115 degrees and no cooling pack.

I start to panick when I see the temps go above 85 at the place I am delivering to.


Oh well I think this might be a no win situation. I can see the arguement on both sides. You should have been there. Well you should have packed properly.....
 
I guess the big question is ................ were they already DEAD at 8:45 am?

They may of been dead then because of bad packaging or because of no label warning to keep out of or away from heat!

Or were they still alive?
 
Before I make a FEW short points, I want you all to know I ONLY read the first 3 pages. I did not go through all the other stuff that follows in most posts on the BOI.

I live in Phoenix, Arizona, just a side note so people do not argue with what I might say.

I donot know Bobby (never spoke to him as far as I know) and I do not know Ken (never spoke to him as far as I know).

Bobby,
I believe the fact that you have been working/breeding.caring for snakes for 15 (I think you said) years. WIth that said, I am sure this is not your first rodeo. You have shipped before (I assume) and you also know that more snakes are lost during the summer than the winter. Even on the east coast (pic a city or state) with daytime highs in the 80-90 range, it can have a "feels like temp" MUCH higher than that if you add the humidity and a snake would most likely die had it been shipped the way you packed it even if it was going across the street. You showed ZERO care for your animals that you were shipping and you showed ZERO care for your reputation (good or bad) in doing so.
A little education of the mighty dessert in the southwest. Last night I was watching the 10pm news. At 10:20 when the weather came on it was still 96 (I believe) they said. That is nothing. I have been out herping at 2am in August and it is STILL over 100 degrees. Do you think an animal of ANY KIND would survive any period of time in a 12 cubic inch (as an example) box in that heat? NO circulation etc. and packing the way you did!
Now for something about shipping to the southwest. I received a package just this morning. It came at 9:50am. The temp at that time in Pheonix was 94 degrees (at least at my house). I asked the shipper how they dhip (packaging/company etc.) and they said they will be shipping in a styro insulated box. EVERYONE: THIS SHOULD BE STANDARD IF YOU SHIP ANIMALS OF ANY KIND. I never understood why people ship in the summer OR winter without it. Anyway, I asked the shipper to make sure they add a cold pack and that way we would both know the snake would arrive just fine. Long story short, it came JUST FINE. She is a healthy snake, wasn't dying for water, was active, and when I opened the box, there was not a wave of heat that came out of it. By the way, they came from Gulf Coast Reptiles. GREAT JOB CHRIS AND SHEILA!

Now there is the argument of whether or not Ken should have been there. THat is between you two. I say it should not matter. I have been in the same situation that Ken was faced with where I missed the delivery attempt OR it just came late. IF IT WERE PROPERLY PACKED IT WOULD HAVE BEEN FINE UNTIL THE NEXT MORNING IF NEED BE (no I am not yelling, just making sure my point is clear).

As far as I am concerned Bobby, you owe this individual the replacement of snakes OR the $$ in the amount you all agree on.

Too bad this happened at all, but you hear this every year. Unfortuantely people only read these stories, get caught in the same situation, rather than do what is best for the animal, their pocket ($$), and their reputation.
One mentioned that people that ship like this should be banned. I would not buy from Bobby knowing he did this. In other words, he has been banned, just up to you all as far as how many people he would be banned from shipping to.
 
I have not read this 6 pg. complaint but read the first and last pg.

If I were in Bobby's shoes I would be thinking that It is the other guy's fault for not being there to recieve the package. You have to assume it could show up at 7am or 5 pm you just never know when recieving. And as far as everyone complaining about the no insulation in the box, I am sure that would not have played a roll in this at 8:45 in the morning. I am sure the snakes road around in a van all day till the next delivery attempt.

I would find for the reciever in the loss for not being there to recieve.
 
Thanks for bringing that up Sputnik. I meant to speak on that as well.

I guarantee you, the snakes were dead when they got on to the truck in Vegas. There is no way those snakes made it through all the stuffy travels they indured for 24 hours and lived without being kept at a SOMEWHAT humane temp.

Just another point. When I ship, I always asak the receiver what the weather is like where they are. Maybe it is because it is always a concern here (at least for a good part of the year), but we ALL should get in that habbit. Do not rely on the recipient to tell you how hot or cold it is.
 
Jim, packaging has EVERYTHING to do with it even if they were coming to a town near you. At 8am in the southwest, it can be in excess of 85+ degrees. Put that on top of being in a small box with not ventilation and you have a recipe for death.

Here is the link to weather.com
It will show you temps at various times of day in Vegas.

http://www.weather.com/weather/detail/USNV0049

I think it is quite relivant that there was no insulation or cold pack.
 
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