kenneth Yates of South Carolina

[oreganus]

Okay....

Let me set the record straight,

That mamba is the EXACT mamba that was sent, I never switched any snakes out. I took the pictures right after the snakes were upacked. As for the venomoid thing, that is just B.S., the snakes were not venomoid and were never going to be venomoided. That is simply Scotts' assumptions due to his "can't resist starting trouble mentality". I have done everyting right in this situatation, for anyone to say that I am "trying to scam a scammer" that is an absolutely false analogy, YES, I did have trouble with someone in the past and there was a thread posted on the BOI, but one has completely nothing to do with the other. I did nothing wrong in that situation except for not accurately follow a TOS agreement.
Anyways, assumptions and attempts at starting a flamewar aside, I have been totally truthful about this whole thing, I have offered to settle for less to get at least some reimbursement on my losses. The ONLY reason that I agreed to only get paid back for the greens, was because I didn't want to argue about anything else, I just simply wanted to get this done and over. I am not a scammer, I never was in the other thread. I have not scammed anyone, I simply bought a collection of snakes that were going into a private collection and WERE NEVER TO BE ALTERED. I have posted every email on here, pictures, and everything else to prove my case. The people starting the assumption that I am " trying to scam" anyone, some of you are going off of your hate for venomoids and have the notion that I am the bad guy no matter what the situation.
Kevin Smith

 

[oreganus]

one last thing....

I am done with this thread, I am not going to get into another battle over the venomoid thing or over the other thread on the BOI, i really don't want to get into it again, it is a complete losing battle in which noone can possibly win, except for people like Scott Bice, who can never resist throwing flames. For everyone who has participated intelligently, thanks for showing that this BOI can work.
As for Kenneth, DON'T think that just because I am not participating in this thread any longer, that I am by any means done with you. You have made it even easier for me to legally collect my money from you. All I have to do is print out your contadicting yourself, admitting that you did not properly pack the animals, and that you agreed to reimburse for the snakes. Oh yeah, and I won't be going for the amount for just the green mambas, I will be going for the entrie amount for all of the snakes, and at the prices you posted on your classified ad.
Thanks
Kevin Smith

 

[Ken Harbart]

i followed the agreement we made and things went well.

I can't help but laugh... things went well???

you always try to make that as few as possible and pack them the best you can which is what i did.

If that piss poor packing job was your best, I feel sorry for yuo. No, I take that back- I feel sorry for the snakes you've killed and those that you will likely kill in the future.

ken herbart hates me and will do anything he can what a moderator. just someone who runs a site like a dictator

Hate is such as trong word. It implies that I feel you are someone of consequence, which I do not. A good way for you to stay off my radar scope is to stop killing snakes and screwing your customers out of their cash. Were you an ethical businessperson, I wouldn't have much, if anything, to say.

It's rather amusing that I "run a site like a dictator" because you are held accountable for your actions. I've come to realize that personal responsibility is a foreign concept to you. Regardless, if you'd been paying attention all along, you'd know that I don't run this site.

But I digress.

 

[kingmike]

The only thing that is known as absolute FACT at this point is that the packaging was way substandard. So the only KNOWN fault is of Ken's doing. Although like I said 20 or more pages ago something just isnt right about the Black Mamba, and that being the case can bring all the other deaths into suspicion. But, irregardless of that they were packaged poorly, and for that Ken is responsible. I could understand Ken fighting the issue if indeed that was not the Mamba sent, anyone would be mad, but since he didnt package them right even if that is the wrong Mamba in the pic he doesnt have a leg to stand on so to speak because of his own actions.

 

[The BoidSmith]

Kevin,

There is no doubt Ken is responsible for the death of the snakes. In MHO any previous agreement between both of you as for who was going to be responsible for eventual deaths while in transit is meaningless, due to the Ken's faulty shipping practices. He owes you at least the three dead green mambas you posted as proof.

Please check again the e-mail exchange you posted. Your address is there, and although it is important to prove your case, we also know from a previous thread that you consider it a dangerous threat to your family.

 

[oreganus]

actually

That is not my home address, that is another address that I put for delta, since they do not deliver door to door, it doesn't matter. I am down there alot and they know how to get ahold of me. Sorry for not answering your question right away,there was alot of posts since my last post, so I missed your question. I know I said I was done, but I don't mind answering intelligent questions that are reasonable.
Thanks
Kevin Smith

 

[Roger Jolly]

Come on! This has got to be a joke!

This Ken Yates guy writes like a 10 year old girl. "I HATE YOU!! YOU BRUTE!! LEAVE ME ALONE!!"

Unbelievable.

And he calls himself a businessman???

Anyone who would do business with this guy in any manner would have to be looney anyway.

Retirement? Is that what they call "going to prison" these days?

 

[Rob @ RK Reptiles]

rob and everyone

I PACKED THEM AS I THOUGHT WOULD BE GREAT.you pack something poorly and should be held liable only if you intentionally packed them poorly and npt caring if they died
the only live arrival was not given and agreed between the 2 of us was because he wanted them so quick and the low low price he paid i reduced the package asking price by over 700.00 and paid for all box charges
that was the AGREEMENT!!!!

Ken you really must be a total idiot. What you did was intentional and you did not care if the animals arrived alive or dead. Had you cared even the slightest for the animals you would have ensured they were shipped in a proper, humane, safe, and correct way. I honestly hope that someone informs Delta of the way you packaged this shipment as you will lose your account and ability to ship through them and very possible could face federal charges as it violates international law to ship animals in an inhumane fashion which either causes their death or helps to cause. We have yet to see anything that shows your so called agreement on a no live arrival. No matter what Kevin's past is this situation is plain and simple. you packaged the animals in a unsafe improper fashion which caused the death of the animals. Therefore you owe Kevin a refund for ALL the animals that arrived dead period! No if's and's or But's about it.

 

[Mustangrde1]

Kevin perhaps you should have read things more clearly or is it something about logical questions and facts being asked unsettles you. Perhaps a few quotes might make you think and see some logic.

Onto the Black Mamba question. Mardi said it did not appear to be the same animal. Kevin backed off his request for reimbursement of it. This sounds to me like a switcharoo did take place for the picture!!! or he just didn't care and wanted some financial reimbursement!!" This is why I am skeptical of him"on this thread.

As I stated an now Quoted: You backed off the Black Mamba at the price you paid for the animal why would you give up trying to regain the money you paid for it unless.

" A " It was not the snake he sent you?
Although $435 dollars is a hell of an amout to just dismiss to have this over with. So I do believe it has relevance to this thread.
" B" You simply wanted to try and put this behind and move on? If this is the case then say it and move on you got ripped and just wanted some compinsation for your loss.

Next I stated:

I did notice however the prices of the Mambas and at $425.00 each my guess is they are venomoids already. The selling price for venomous Mambas are running only about $125 to $150 for W/C and could be higher for C/B or LTC depending on who and where you purchase . So the argument of Kevin doing venomoid surgery on them would be moot at this point if they were already venomoids. I would like to know though if they were it would tend to show Ken brought up the Venomoid issue to purely try and make this in to something else and divert attention off the subject.

Kevin your responce was:

As for the venomoid thing, that is just B.S., the snakes were not venomoid and were never going to be venomoided. That is simply Scotts' assumptions due to his "can't resist starting trouble mentality".

Ok question answered. Although if you read it carefully perhaps with your glasses on you will be able to notice that as pointed out you paid a price that is comparable to venomoids. With that in mind I simply asked if they were already venomoids or not. Had they been then it would have shot down KEN'S not my attempt at diverting the subject to the venomoid issue. Also I gave other circumstances of which they might be higher priced. a simple answer from you would have been fine. Trust me if I wanted to make it an venomoid issue I would have sounded off the first day.

Awe yes on to my next statement:

I will conclude with saying Kevin you have learned from past problems and stayed on focus which shows more maturity and credibility in this case and I believe you on most of your points. Still with your past history I am very leery to believe it all. Perhaps in time I will believe you are trying to change but so long as you are in to venomous reptile alterations I can never believe you 100% when it comes to dead animals you may have received.

And Kevins reply:

YES, I did have trouble with someone in the past and there was a thread posted on the BOI, but one has completely nothing to do with the other

First on my statement I do believe I gave you credit for the manner in which you have handled this entire thread up to and including staying on the topic. I do believe I even stated I believed you in this case " However that is still with some skeptisism because of you alteration practices" but none the less I beleived you.

However as per your own statement <you have had problems in the past> This would lend to your credablity on this one as well. So yes one deffinately has to do with the other. If you had been more credable on your first problemed posting then your current credability would not be questioned. It is a simple matter of bussiness ethics and honesty reguarding how you conduct it.

I do find it funny that you got very upset though when I brought up the" V "word. As the contex was to give you a chance to explain the entire situation and never was it to bash you over it. Makes me wonder why you would be so defencive over a simple question? I never attacked you or tried to change it into a venomoid subject just asked what appeared to be a very pertenant question. Hell even one that would lend credablity to your case.

Scott Bice

 

[W.Wedeking]

Well, here is my take on the whole thing.

It seems to me that Ken likes to deal with people who have, shall we say, a less than shining reputation. this seems to ensure for him that when he does get caught that nothing will come of it because there is soo much mud, it is difficult to see who is dirtier.

In otherword, we know that Kevin has some very "questionable" (to say the least) practices himself and were he to go to authorities, chances are that not only would Ken be in trouble, so would he.

As far as the "no live arrival guarantee" thing, let me explain it so Ken can understand.

You go to your local Ford dealer and order a new F150 truck.
It gets delivered to you, you jump in turn the key and nothing happens, the truck is dead. You call the dealer and he says "you agreed to waive the guarantee on the engine".

Do you think this will hold up in court? No, because there is this thing called "reasonable expectation". It is reasonable to expect that when you buy a car/truck that the engine is working, just like it is reasonable to expect that then you purchase live animals, they are ALIVE when you get them.

So what does this mean? This means that your "no live arrival guarantee" just got flushed down the toilet and this means it doesn't matter if you unintentionally packed them poorly or not.

As for Mardi, while I am happy that he saw fit to come and post here, there has been one nagging question in the back of my mind. If he didn't know either party very well, and all he did was bag up those snakes, how did he know the age of the Black Mamba and that it was CB?

 

[oreganus]

I will respond....

Scott:

I apologize for some of the way that I lashed out towards you. That was wrong of me and I am man enough to say it. I will say that I did not agree with the way you stated some of the post, but that is okay and I don't want to go back and forth about it. As far as my "reputation", I have a very good reputation. One inicident in another thread does not make me "shady", I deal with lots of people and have had no problems. I did make a mistake by starting the other thread, since I did not know the lengths people would go to cover up their wrong doings. But that is the past and now I know and will avoid making that mistake again. That in no way makes me of "questionable" character, like I said, I have dealt with alot of people and as with any thing else, there have been a couple of problems(them, not me). As far as this situation, I guess I do take it kind of offensive when someone says that perhaps I may have switched snakes in attempt for financial gain. I simply dropped the issue on the black mamba because there is no point in pushing the issue and losing any chance of getting money back for the other animals. I did not pay the full price of what he posted the snakes for, that is why in my previous post I stated that I did not expect to get that much out of them. This is an extremely messed up situation, I took pictures of the exact snakes that were dead right after I unpacked them. And now there is a question of it being the same black mamba? It is frustrating because with Kenneth, I have no way of knowing what happened on that end after Mardi bagged them. So now I am left to wonder which mamba I actually got and what happened to the other one if this is truly a different snake, I don't know, I didn't see it until it showed up. Don't worry, I am fully prepared to file a legal claim against Kenneth, I have tried to give him the chance over and over to make it right, but unfortunate for him, he would rather come on here and make my case against him even better. I WILL be asking for the money for ALL of the mambas in court, plus the other animals that were missing. I may not get the money for the rattlers that were missing, but thanks to this thread and Kenneth's own comments I will get the full amount for the mambas. It is just sad that this hobby has become so corrupt and there are so many theives out there. Look at how big the BOI has become compared to four or five years ago, it is really scary. Well, if I missed any questions or comments, feel free to post and I will reply as long as it is civil and on topic.
Thanks
Kevin Smith

 

[Mustangrde1]

Accepted .

As to what happened after Mardi packed them ONLY KEN really knows, I could not believe Mardi would ever put his reputation on the line he spent to many years build such a good one. Mardi is a good guy and would not screw someone like that.

Good luck with Ken though

Scott Bice

 

[Mardi Snipes]

Black Mamba question

Your question was how did I know the age of the Mamba? The answer is this: The entire group of snakes that Ken sold Kevin came from a private collection in Florida. I happen to know the individual that sold the collection to Ken very well and sold him many snakes over the past 4 years. I have met Ken twice over the past month or so because I was friends with one of his prior employees. Ken called me to ask for help because he knew I was the only person in the area that had the experience to do what he needed. I have lived in Florida for the past 7 years and just got married and moved to South Carolina 3 months ago. Never knew Ken prior to that. Don't know Kevin either other than a phone call and a few emails. I never intended to post anything until someone brought up my name. I posted an accurate description of what I did so everyone could get some unbiased facts and to prevent anyone from including me in this deal other than my stated participation. Don't get me mixed up in this ridiculous situation.

Best Regards,
Mardi Snipes

 

[W.Wedeking]

Mardi, I meant no disrespect, just one of things I thought needed more explaination and you gave it. Thank you. Personally, I believe you did exactly what you stated.

I happen to know the individual that sold the collection to Ken very well and sold him many snakes over the past 4 years.

This means that this person in Florida could identify all of the snakes if need be then?

Don't get me mixed up in this ridiculous situation.

Sorry Mardi, Ken already did that.

 

[W.Wedeking]

Kevin

I took pictures of the exact snakes that were dead right after I unpacked them.

This may have been asked earlier, I can't recall, but did you have someone else there when you unpacked them? It would be a great help expecially in court if you did.

Keep in mind when using this thread in a court case that it will be just as easy for Ken to use the one in which you were asked point blank if you perform surgery on your own snakes. I don't recall you ever answering that question either way.

To most people, that seems pretty suspicious. Suspicious enough to cast some doubt on your credibility and yes, giving you a questionable reputation.

Personally, I find it odd that you would choose to do business with this man. You must have read the other threads about him on the BOI.

 

[oreganus]

I had a friend measure the snake.....

and it was not quite five foot, So I don't know if it is the same snake, Mardi told me the one he bagged was about 4 and a half foot, so I am undecided if this is the same snake. In any case, I have two witnesses that were here when I unpacked the snakes and my friend was the one that opened the bags on the mambas, since I am not that comfortable with mambas. It is not that I cannot handle them, I just don't feel comfortable and nervousness=a bad situation waiting to happen. I just think this shows truly what kind of guy that Kenneth is, everyone saw his emails saying he wouldn't garauntee them, him stating that he would make it good, and then throwing a tantrum and saying he wouldn't pay. I don't know what made him so angry and for him to change his mind so quickly, maybe I was too nice in my posts or maybe I offended him by asking for so little reimbursement? Hmm, very strange.
Kevin Smith

 

[JungleHabitats]

4 1/2 ft - almost 5 foot ???

Ok i have to ask this ...
Ken stated he doesnt mess with venomous so first of all how other then measuring with a string or something Viable do you know the true length of the snake??

Mardi please forgive me but i think this is one you may could answer, you had stated the black mamba was 41/2 foot long Did you actually measure the snake while it was alive ? or was your size a educated guess?due to it being a deadily snake and not to take a chance in gathering its length.

Now Kevin just stated that the measured snake in question was almost 5 foot. Is it at all possible that the black mamba could have been 4-3" ,4-6" or 4-8"?

also is it al possible that once dead that the snake could gain any inches in length due to muscle loss due to not being tense or alive ? i guess if the snake measured "almost 5 foot then that could quite possibly mean it is the same snake if there was never a exact length of the snake ever made and recorded anywhere . and even now unless marty states he phiscally measured the snake Ken you word would count for nothing so dont answer that you " have it wrote down"

 

[The BoidSmith]

I had a friend measure the snake.....
and it was not quite five foot, So I don't know if it is the same snake, Mardi told me the one he bagged was about 4 and a half foot, so I am undecided if this is the same snake.

"Not quite five foot (actual measurement)" and "about 4 and a half (visual estimate)" sound pretty close to me.

 

[Clay Davenport]

Someone correct me if I'm just not looking at this correctly. In the picture on the first page of the thread, the hand holding the black is above his head, the tail is about his knee and the head, if the body hung straight, looks like it would hang around his belt or a little below.
It just appears to me that unless he is a particularly short individual, that snake is considerably longer than 5 feet.
I'm 6 feet tall and happened to have a tape measure laying on the desk. Simulating the snake with the tape measure, I got around a seven foot length.
I'm not saying who's right or wrong on this issue, it's just my observation.

From the beginning, I thought it would be fairly stupid to try to switch snakes for a picture when the snake was twice as long as the one that was sent, but anything is possible when looking at so many obvious possibilities.

 

[elite]

Sorry to come back on the BOI all of you do nothing but make guesses and have nothing to back what you say and most do not know what they are even talking about. i boxed and shipped in 6 boxes (more than needed) heated and shipped the fastest right. I could do no better.
i will NEVER be back on this site again

all of you can have fun with your gossip.
kevin
the deal has now been and has been completed
goodbye