Killing the messengers....

[WebSlave]

I've been hearing this far too often lately, and from many quarters. That people are afraid to post on the BOI because they get attacked viciously for their statements made there. That they wind up virtually fighting for their own reputation because of attacks made on their own character because of their statements made either for or against someone on the BOI.

Personally, I think this is a serious issue that I need to address. If people are afraid to post on the BOI, then what will be the eventual result of non participation because of the grinder people are put through there?

Yeah, I do understand that some people WILL make false claims, or mistakes in judgment that their own postings will reveal, but seriously, are the attacks really necessary? Are the personal attacks going to defeat what most people are hoping to get out of the BOI? If few participate because of the danger and stress to themselves, then how much information will not be forthcoming that really needs to be?

Most of you know that I have been gradually turning up the heat to try to make the BOI and this site in general, a better place for all to participate within. I think the heat needs to be cranked up a notch or two in regard to the problems that this post here is attempting to address. That the behavior that will be counterproductive of the purpose of the BOI needs to be weeded out, either by the people who engage in such attacks toning it down, or by the elevated levels of the infractions levied for such behavior moving them on out of the picture if they refuse to willingly comply.

I believe that the truth CAN be uncovered without rancor and derogatory and belittling attacks. I believe that people will get professional dialog if they themselves engage in a professional manner. I BELIEVE that this is how I want this site to BE.

Forthwith I am asking the moderators to start cracking down harder on incidents whereby unnecessary force is being used to examine or cross-examine anyone and their statements made. It will still be completely acceptable to question anyone's statements and motives, but to do so in a belittling or inflammatory manner is going to have elevated risks associated with it.

I will copy this message over onto the BOI to make certain that everyone involved their has the opportunity to see my opinion about what needs to change there.

 

[scaledverts]

I've been hearing this far too often lately, and from many quarters. That people are afraid to post on the BOI because they get attacked viciously for their statements made there. That they wind up virtually fighting for their own reputation because of attacks made on their own character because of their statements made either for or against someone on the BOI.

Personally, I think this is a serious issue that I need to address. If people are afraid to post on the BOI, then what will be the eventual result of non participation because of the grinder people are put through there?

Yeah, I do understand that some people WILL make false claims, or mistakes in judgment that their own postings will reveal, but seriously, are the attacks really necessary? Are the personal attacks going to defeat what most people are hoping to get out of the BOI? If few participate because of the danger and stress to themselves, then how much information will not be forthcoming that really needs to be?

Most of you know that I have been gradually turning up the heat to try to make the BOI and this site in general, a better place for all to participate within. I think the heat needs to be cranked up a notch or two in regard to the problems that this post here is attempting to address. That the behavior that will be counterproductive of the purpose of the BOI needs to be weeded out, either by the people who engage in such attacks toning it down, or by the elevated levels of the infractions levied for such behavior moving them on out of the picture if they refuse to willingly comply.

I believe that the truth CAN be uncovered without rancor and derogatory and belittling attacks. I believe that people will get professional dialog if they themselves engage in a professional manner. I BELIEVE that this is how I want this site to BE.

Forthwith I am asking the moderators to start cracking down harder on incidents whereby unnecessary force is being used to examine or cross-examine anyone and their statements made. It will still be completely acceptable to question anyone's statements and motives, but to do so in a belittling or inflammatory manner is going to have elevated risks associated with it.

I will copy this message over onto the BOI to make certain that everyone involved their has the opportunity to see my opinion about what needs to change there.

Thanks Rich!!! I think this is a much needed move (although you really shouldn't have to!).

 

[KelliH]

I think that's a wise decision. Thanks for the BOI.

 

[Tigger the Tiger]

Why now?

 

[WebSlave]

Why now?

If not now, then when?

 

[Focal]

I was kind of getting sick of all the "cry baby" and "feelings hurt" nonsense. It's really counter-productive to what the BOI it there for.

 

[bloodybaroness]

Thank you Rich, this really needed to be said.

The "wolf pack attack" has gotten a little excessive at times.

It still falls on the thread starter to provide proof and evidence of claims, but hopefully this will give them a little more confidence to start out.

Also it should make some of the thread responders cool their jets and be less intimidating.

I hate to hear about a genuine BOI worthy issue that people are too scared to post for fear of being attacked.

 

[snowgyre]

I think part of the problem stems from people simply not knowing when to stop putting their two cents in. Say your piece, and move on. The continuous back and forth arguments really gets distracting from the original topic. In addition, I have received negative feedback simply for disagreeing with the bandwagon's assessments. I can understand negative karma for bad behavior, but negative karma simply because I disagree with your assessment of the situation? I can certainly see why some people would be reluctant to post in the BOI.

Thanks for tackling this problem head-on, Rich. Hopefully this will force people to cool their heels a bit before they post emotionally riddled responses. If people just took a deep breath before responding, I feel a lot of these issues would be resolved without administrative hammers.

 

[scaledverts]

Thanks for tackling this problem head-on, Rich. Hopefully this will force people to cool their heels a bit before they post emotionally riddled responses. If people just took a deep breath before responding, I feel a lot of these issues would be resolved without administrative hammers.

I agree. However, since it is the BOI, people seem to get more emotional than they would normally get. Because of this I think you end up with many more "knee jerk" posts than you might otherwise. Unfortunately, I think that is human nature and I am not sure that self-policing will/can work (or has worked previously). Maybe after a few infractions/bans are handed out the culture will slowly start to change.

 

[Tim Cole]

I think part of the problem stems from people simply not knowing when to stop putting their two cents in. Say your piece, and move on. The continuous back and forth arguments really gets distracting from the original topic. In addition, I have received negative feedback simply for disagreeing with the bandwagon's assessments. I can understand negative karma for bad behavior, but negative karma simply because I disagree with your assessment of the situation? I can certainly see why some people would be reluctant to post in the BOI.

Thanks for tackling this problem head-on, Rich. Hopefully this will force people to cool their heels a bit before they post emotionally riddled responses. If people just took a deep breath before responding, I feel a lot of these issues would be resolved without administrative hammers.

Well put.

 

[Southern Wolf]

So how are you gonna deal with the folks that are just stuck on stoopid? (borderline trollish behavior)

It will be those folks that end up getting your regulars that have something to contribute to the site banned.

 

[WebSlave]

So how are you gonna deal with the folks that are just stuck on stoopid? (borderline trollish behavior)

It will be those folks that end up getting your regulars that have something to contribute to the site banned.

In cases of two parties going at each other and resorting to personal attacks in the process, unless it is EXTREMELY obvious who is the actual antagonist, BOTH will get infractions for the altercation. I am not going to waste much of my time trying to figure out "who started it" and really don't care if the OP wants to continue it. I don't expect my mods to expend much of their time neither in that pursuit. So if someone attacks YOU, it will be in your best interests to let them get the infraction rather than jumping into the cesspool along with the other guy. The trouble makers will be weeded out pretty quickly, so don't be part of the collateral damage.

The two new mods (John and April) have been doing a fine job patrolling the classifieds section, getting their feet wet modding here, so I am going to open up the rest of the site to them to help with the moderation tasks. That will give more eyes in the BOI to try to enforce the peace.

Just for the record, I don't want anyone coming to me whining about the mods not being fair because you got an infraction defending yourself, or the other guy was solely at fault. I DON'T CARE. I am NOT going to side with you over my mods. I am NOT going to waste my time second guessing their judgment. If you have any complaints, the mod who gave you the infraction is the one you need to convince about how they misunderstood you. The mod who gave the infraction is going to be the only one who can later rescind it, if they see that it is fitting and just.

Oh yeah, another point needs to be made. Racking up infractions will automatically generate a 3 day ban when you reach a certain level. If anyone decides to go around this by creating another registration, that earns that person a YEAR LONG ban. I used to have it a permanent ban, but perhaps that was too harsh for a mistake in judgment. In any event, any posts made under that "bypass" registration will be subject to being deleted, along with that account. Of course, someone who continually creates these bypass accounts has then surpassed the case of it being a simple lack of judgment and will then incur a PERMANENT ban accordingly.

I know this may sound harsh of me, but quite honestly, I don't care how many trouble makers need to be thrown out of here to make this site more respectable. We are still getting between 40 and 60 new registrations each and every day here, so the void made by anyone getting tossed out won't take long to fill.

I've been gradually turning up the heat to move this site more in line with how I want it to be. This is just another notch up the scale. I'm trying to give everyone enough time to adapt and modify their behavior as necessary to comply with my desire to make this site much more professional and actually useful to people.

So take heed, please. I really don't like to boot anyone out of here, but will not hesitate to do so, no matter who you are nor how long you have been here, paid member or paid advertiser or not. I cannot have people simply AFRAID to participate here and not provide information that will certainly be of value to someone.

 

[kerit]

Is there a way that a post that has earned an infraction can be visibly marked by the mods as such? Or is that another unrealistic programming demand? Being able to plainly identify what has been deemed unacceptable within a thread would be a helpful learning tool, especially for those that may not read the rules thoroughly or keep up with these announcements. As it is, newer readers may see the bickering and antagonism and think it's acceptable behavior, not knowing it's racked up points for its poster.

 

[Southern Wolf]

Is there a way that a post that has earned an infraction can be visibly marked by the mods as such? Or is that another unrealistic programming demand? Being able to plainly identify what has been deemed unacceptable within a thread would be a helpful learning tool, especially for those that may not read the rules thoroughly or keep up with these announcements. As it is, newer readers may see the bickering and antagonism and think it's acceptable behavior, not knowing it's racked up points for its poster.

That may open up a whole other can of worms. Then you got someone whinning about so and so not getting an infraction. Some whine enough when they themselves get one... I can see this making the problem worse.

 

[hhmoore]

When I first joined here, there was a place in profile you could click (kind of like the Trader Rating, I think) to view the person's infractions. From what I recall, it was an issue in a few ways - ranging from people asking why others didn't get the same infractions to a person's infractions being brought up in inappropriate areas for any number of reasons.

Given the reaction that many people have to just getting an infraction - can you imagine the response if the fact that they got it was viewable by everybody? IMO, the benefit of other people seeing that moderators are addressing the issues would be outweighed by the aggravation that it caused (and the fact that disciplinary action taken against a member really isn't any of anybody else's business)

 

[kerit]

I'd imagine there'd be a burst of whining about it at first implementation, yeah, and probably from the same whiners already around. I do think the system now will prod BOI posters into line, just more gradually than having such immediate feedback would.

Mods continuing to hop into a thread and giving general "back on topic" warnings is probably just as effective.

 

[HecticLifeReptiles]

I think this is a wonderful Idea! IMHO It's going to cause people to give information more readily instead of holding it back for fear of being fed to the wolves. I remember when I first came here to this site, it was to post a Bad Guy BOI and I felt like I had fed myself to the wolves, thankfully I had some pictues that I posted which cleared up my end, but It was still really rough at first. I really hope this will get the people it needs to and create an all around better experiance for those of us conducting business in a professional, calm manner. Thanks Webslave for the notch up ^_^ Really think it's going to help this site!

 

[rcarichter]

This is a really great improvement. The first time I dared enter the BOI, it was to say I was very happy with a transaction. Apparently the seller was not too popular, because I was answered with accusations of posing as someone else, being an irresponsible pet owner for buying from him, being a friend of his w/ a secret IP address, even actually being him! Holy cow, I'm a middle aged mom who just bought a really nice gecko! And, BTW, I would still buy from this person. But, I learned my lesson about what I'm getting into by posting! I, for one, appreciate the change!

 

[crotalusadamanteus]

Can we make no whining a rule too?

I pretty much just read anymore. Since most of the time people just make me want to say STFU or leave.

 

[GreenCountryHerp]

I agree with the majority. Something needs to be done about this. People start to take jabs at each other and the thread becomes more about them than the original topic. Everyone needs to quit being so personal and enter their own opinion on the topic and move on. There are other places to take your attacks and the BOI should not be one of them.