Killing the messengers....

[Chris Kindred]

I think the BOI needs to be redone... I admit, I have popped off a few times on there, and I was banned for a short time. no problem. I do have a problem being threatened to be banned again for simply asking how much someone would like for a snake they weren't happy with. Just trying to help the other person recoupe some of thier loss... Trying to be nice... If someone posts a picture of an animal, and someone else remarks nice snake or something, isn't that the same as asking how much? I understand why this is frowned upon, as the BOI post becomes like reading a novel. but you continue to allow other people to argue back and forth about he said, she said nonsence, which also makes the post extremely long and really off the main topic... The moderators, who are doing their job, are turning people off of Fauna by what seems to me to be a really petty thing, considering what else is going on in the BOI forum. May I suggest that you pick your battles, and try to be a little more friendly and professional.

 

[hhmoore]

I think the BOI needs to be redone... I admit, I have popped off a few times on there, and I was banned for a short time. no problem. I do have a problem being threatened to be banned again for simply asking how much someone would like for a snake they weren't happy with. Just trying to help the other person recoupe some of thier loss... Trying to be nice... If someone posts a picture of an animal, and someone else remarks nice snake or something, isn't that the same as asking how much? I understand why this is frowned upon, as the BOI post becomes like reading a novel. but you continue to allow other people to argue back and forth about he said, she said nonsence, which also makes the post extremely long and really off the main topic... The moderators, who are doing their job, are turning people off of Fauna by what seems to me to be a really petty thing, considering what else is going on in the BOI forum. May I suggest that you pick your battles, and try to be a little more friendly and professional.

Quite simply, the BOI isn't the place to discuss that aspect of sales/purchases...that sort of thing is for the classifieds. If one wants to express an interest in something outside of the classifieds, it should be by PM (email, visitor message)
As fast as the reference to being banned, I looked at that warning - I didn't view it as a threat...I considered it a reminder that you had accumulated points, and that you should be more careful (as in try to function within the rules/policies so you don't get banned again).

 

[hhmoore]

And, no, "nice snake" is not the same as "how much do you want for it?"

 

[WebSlave]

I think the BOI needs to be redone... I admit, I have popped off a few times on there, and I was banned for a short time. no problem. I do have a problem being threatened to be banned again for simply asking how much someone would like for a snake they weren't happy with. Just trying to help the other person recoupe some of thier loss... Trying to be nice... If someone posts a picture of an animal, and someone else remarks nice snake or something, isn't that the same as asking how much? I understand why this is frowned upon, as the BOI post becomes like reading a novel. but you continue to allow other people to argue back and forth about he said, she said nonsence, which also makes the post extremely long and really off the main topic... The moderators, who are doing their job, are turning people off of Fauna by what seems to me to be a really petty thing, considering what else is going on in the BOI forum. May I suggest that you pick your battles, and try to be a little more friendly and professional.

Nope. Sorry, but I disagree. If someone displays an animal or merchandise in a BOI thread that you are interested in, take it to PM with an offer. That is not the place to then engage in any sort of sales negotiation. If the fact that we are trying to eliminate that sort of fluff from the BOI is "turning people off", then I guess that's just tough noogies. My guess is that it is only the people getting infractions for such shenanigans who are getting "turned off". The biggest complaint I have heard about the BOI is that there is often too much irrelevant posting made there. Which is EXACTLY what a sales negotiation would be classified as in that context. Saying that this is the same category as people engaging in a conversation related to the topic issue of the thread with "he said, she said nonsense", is in itself COMPLETE and TOTAL nonsense. That is what the thread is there for. It is not there as a sales pitch (not if it wants to remain on the BOI) and neither should anyone solicit sales there.

 

[KelliH]

Ah yes, the Karma.

 

[serpentz]

I think this is a great idea, im fairly new here, and I love the website, and I have delt with an individual whom had bad guy threads here, and what I took from those posts was exactly wat this site was meant to be for. information, I went into my negotiations with all information from this site and I had a good experience, that is all this site should and can ever be, ppl don't need to be attacked or insulted because they have delt with someone whom others say they shouldn't. and in regards to infractions and warnings for the personal attacks and childish writings, let me ask a question, when ur a child and u do something bad your parents give u a time out, when u break a law, u get arrested, so why when you harass and verbally attack someone on the web do you assume no liability for your actions, this site is simply doing what society is lacking these days, individual accountability for your words and actions. and I love it, and should the mods deem this post frivolous or wrong by all means I expect to hear about it. that's my dollar fifty. because I said way more then 2 cents lol

 

[serpentz]

I think the BOI needs to be redone... I admit, I have popped off a few times on there, and I was banned for a short time. no problem. I do have a problem being threatened to be banned again for simply asking how much someone would like for a snake they weren't happy with. Just trying to help the other person recoupe some of thier loss... Trying to be nice... If someone posts a picture of an animal, and someone else remarks nice snake or something, isn't that the same as asking how much? I understand why this is frowned upon, as the BOI post becomes like reading a novel. but you continue to allow other people to argue back and forth about he said, she said nonsence, which also makes the post extremely long and really off the main topic... The moderators, who are doing their job, are turning people off of Fauna by what seems to me to be a really petty thing, considering what else is going on in the BOI forum. May I suggest that you pick your battles, and try to be a little more friendly and professional.

question for you sir, I have no knowledge of what you are referring to except for what has been posted here, but I ask you a question, you were in fact not banned for wht you asked, so it was essentially a warning. how else are you to know that you should not be doing that unless a moderator informs you, also once again just saying how does society deal with repeat offenders? harsher punishments correct, so if the mods see someone constantly breaking their rules ( all theoretical) you must expect them to have less patience dealing with that individual, and I agree to a point with the he said she said stuff, but as long as they are presenting new information or proving a point, it seems alright, but these new rules seem to be in place to eliminate exactly what you are saying is wrong, if ppl act unprofessional or childish the mods will be dealing harsher with it. sorry for the rant here, I just understand what its like to have a less then popular job to do, and there mod jobs are pretty thankless, you must admit. anyway cheers from canada

 

[RDLinATL]

I had a similar situation happen where I went against the bandwagon, albeit not in a BOI thread. I stated my point with a single comment, some people rebuttaled with good advice, some not so good. I rebuttaled with one subsequent comment. Afterwards I was sent a PM where we explained our sides in a professional manner and I was able to elaborate on some of my rhetoric.

It all went down very smoothly with both of us expressing our concerns, stating our points and clearing a few misconceptions. All this without turning into a flame war, getting completely off topic, and wasting away valuable space for more informative information on the subject. The system works very well if you know how to use it and stay level headed. I'd like to think this process is what the fauna team had in mind when opening the BOI to everyone.

 

[Caledonia]

Take Back The BoI

I think this sticky needs to revisited and reemphasised to a lot of the BoI "regulars". Some many of the folks there are helpful in a nonemotional, non judgemental, polite but not naive manner there are quite a few that are constantly on the hunt for someone to beat up on.

There have been many threads over there recently that have been less than constructive and respectful and it is because of the manner in which some people decide to interact with others.

This kind of behavior is allowed to slide by quite frequently and I think it is because the demeanor has slowly taken a turn down a slippery slope and rudeness has simply become somewhat common instead of the exception.

I see unmoderated profanity getting thrown around over there more frequently with every thread. I see the OPs getting dragged through the mud by the tenth post before they can provide a single response to valid questions. Condescension and disrespect are running rampant and are going to ruin this fantastic place where folks come to voice concerns.

The BoI is clearly the most active place on the classifieds and this draws everyone in. Everyone wants to be part of the action and some folks do not care how they get their attention. They goes for OPs and responders alike.

I don't know how it gets done, but the BoI needs to be taken back to the unemotional, logical, respectful, informative place it is intended to be.

I'm sure this post will generate a handful of negative comments from certain folks that love kicking others around and Im sure I will incur some more negative karma from this post but frankly I don't care. I have more interest in starting a conversation about fixing a problem on a board I love than making friends.

We are all better than this and the BoI should be reflective of the best segment of this community rather than what it is currently showing.

 

[Fangthane]

This kind of behavior is allowed to slide by quite frequently and I think it is because the demeanor has slowly taken a turn down a slippery slope and rudeness has simply become somewhat common instead of the exception.

Or, maybe you're just a bit of a habitual whiner, whose opinions rarely reflect that of the vast majority of the site's other members. I have a feeling that that likelihood hasn't occurred to you. You'll undoubtedly latch on to my statements as just more invective coming from one of the 'regulars' who you believe feel some innate need to create senseless drama; but I suspect a great many others see us regulars as people who simply call it like they see it - likely appreciating our candor and the desirable results that have consistently come from knowing which buttons to push to lead to the truth. You want to try to hold everyone's hands and lead a round of Kumbaya, you're free to do so. Those of us who've noticed how typically useless that is are also free to try to actually accomplish something more useful with our posts.

 

[nickolasanastasiou]

Michael, how would you be aware of when profanity is moderated versus not? Unless someone comes out and admits it, warnings and infractions can only be viewed by the staff and the individual receiving the action.

 

[Caledonia]

Michael, how would you be aware of when profanity is moderated versus not? Unless someone comes out and admits it, warnings and infractions can only be viewed by the staff and the individual receiving the action.

I assume foul language would be edited from the post by a mod much like a quote made by an unidentified 3rd party, the sugarhedgie thread as an example.

If I am mistaken it is my lack of knowledge in the functional interworkings of this particular board. I'm fairly new here so please excuse me if my noob is showing.

 

[Caledonia]

Or, maybe you're just a bit of a habitual whiner, whose opinions rarely reflect that of the vast majority of the site's other members. I have a feeling that that likelihood hasn't occurred to you. You'll undoubtedly latch on to my statements as just more invective coming from one of the 'regulars' who you believe feel some innate need to create senseless drama; but I suspect a great many others see us regulars as people who simply call it like they see it - likely appreciating our candor and the desirable results that have consistently come from knowing which buttons to push to lead to the truth. You want to try to hold everyone's hands and lead a round of Kumbaya, you're free to do so. Those of us who've noticed how typically useless that is are also free to try to actually accomplish something more useful with our posts.

Case in point, ladies and gentlemen. Thanks for illustrating that for me.

This isn't about everyone being friends and holding hands etc.. but thanks for the attempt at branding me as a "kumbaya" singer, but you've got the wrong guy.

And a habitual whiner? I'm new to this board, I've made about 20 posts since I joined the classifieds a few months ago, I don't think you can pin down any of my personality habits in 20 posts. You in the other hand make about 20 posts a day in same disrespectful tone, so I've got a pretty good handle on what makes you tick, at least around these parts.

And that is the crux of my argument : It is about people having a tone, just like the one you displayed above, that is simply an attempt at showing how edgy you are for the rest of this community. You're really not that hard to read.

Being flat out rude to people who have differing opinions or are not giving you the information you want is not a constructive form of conversation. It makes folks who do it look desperate and redirects a conversation from the topic and onto personal defense and offense. If you truly had the best interest of the community in mind, I don't think you would want to detract from the topic by doing such things.

You may be of the opinion that people around here appreciate, respect and revere you but just think how much more appreciated you could be if your fostered constructive, streamlined conversations instead of getting snippy and rude and showing your buds who you think yourself to be.

There certainly are, as I said above, many, many regulars who are helpful and constructive and they are much more appreciated than those who aren't. Im sure you can think of some of the people I'm referencing. You should read the tone of their posts, then read your own and you will surely see what I mean.

I don't really care how you conduct yourself in life or in other sections of the classifieds or the BoI for that matter, but you should at least show respect for the noble aim of the BoI section by acting a bit more civil and respectful or risk the whole endeavor becoming a side show.

 

[nickolasanastasiou]

I assume foul language would be edited from the post by a mod much like a quote made by an unidentified 3rd party, the sugarhedgie thread as an example.

If I am mistaken it is my lack of knowledge in the functional interworkings of this particular board. I'm fairly new here so please excuse me if my noob is showing.

No, that is not how it works with the profanity rule.

 

[Caledonia]

No, that is not how it works with the profanity rule.

Lesson learned. Is there a place I can find these policies to save myself the embarrassment in the future?

I know there is and have read the rules section but I don't recall seeing that entry.

 

[Fangthane]

This isn't about everyone being friends and holding hands etc.. but thanks for the attempt at branding me as a "kumbaya" singer, but you've got the wrong guy.

Given your little play-nice crusade here, the shoe certainly fits.

And a habitual whiner? I'm new to this board, I've made about 20 posts since I joined the classifieds a few months ago, I don't think you can pin down any of my personality habits in 20 posts.

Of your 13 current posts on this site, nearly half of them are you simply bitching about something. So, yes, habitual whiner is an appropriate description, obvious even with such a relatively small sample size. My 'tone' works just fine for me and what I do around here. The moderators aren't shy about stepping in and issuing infractions when they feel someone's overstepped their bounds. Considering that I very rarely hear from them, I have to doubt that your interpretation of my posts and the damage I'm supposedly doing to the BOI has any basis in reality.

Aside from the scammers I've helped expose, it's generally only the very rare crybabies that have expressed any issues with my posting habits. Since I don't really care to cater to either of those demographics, I'll just keep on being me, without worrying too much about how some random person chooses to perceive me.

You in the other hand make about 20 posts a day in same disrespectful tone, so I've got a pretty good handle on what makes you tick, at least around these parts.

In the past month, I've made something like 41 posts. Rudeness is bad, but your choice to grossly misrepresent a given situation is perfectly acceptable? Now I can see why you'd feel the need to jump in and try to spare the feelings of someone like Chris Davis. It's looking like you both may have the very same aversion to honesty.

And that is the crux of my argument : It is about people having a tone, just like the one you displayed above, that is simply an attempt at showing how edgy you are for the rest of this community. You're really not that hard to read.

I have no need to be edgy. I'm just me. If you don't like it, you're free to make use of the site's ignore function. That's the easy way out. Seeing as how you've put more effort into whining than you have into defending those you feel are being wronged, it's pretty obvious that you're all about doing that which is just easier. My tone has helped quite a few people. You've accomplished what around here, exactly?

Being flat out rude to people who have differing opinions or are not giving you the information you want is not a constructive form of conversation. It makes folks who do it look desperate and redirects a conversation from the topic and onto personal defense and offense. If you truly had the best interest of the community in mind, I don't think you would want to detract from the topic by doing such things.

You're welcome to your interpretation, even though it's laughably incorrect and wholly uninformed.

You may be of the opinion that people around here appreciate, respect and revere you but just think how much more appreciated you could be if your fostered constructive, streamlined conversations instead of getting snippy and rude and showing your buds who you think yourself to be.

I don't really want or need 'buds.' I'm friendly with a few people, but everyone's pretty much free to go pound sand for all I care. I've happily stood alone on numerous occasions - without tucking tail and running when the masses made it clear that they vehemently disagreed with me. I stand by my convictions, even when they're not popular. You, on the other hand, have run away like a coward when the mean troll wouldn't go away at your command. I'd rather be despised for having the courage of my convictions, than be 'revered' for trying to play some role that just doesn't fit me.

You making the case for the idea that someone should alter their habits simply to gain the crowd's favor sure does seem to be saying something about yourself, though. Given that red block directly under your name, maybe you should quit while you're behind, since popularity is apparently such an important thing. If mass approval is so desirable, you're clearly doing something wrong.

 

[nickolasanastasiou]

Lesson learned. Is there a place I can find these policies to save myself the embarrassment in the future?

I know there is and have read the rules section but I don't recall seeing that entry.

While there are rules out there, I think there might not be codified guides for all of the things we do not do in response to one infraction that we might do for another. Another thing to consider is simply that this site has existed for a long time. In some cases, we have members who sign up who are younger than the website itself. While a lot of things have remained the same, there has been some change over time in response to perception of needs and changes in perspective by management in response to an evolving social landscape. In the case of not editing out profanity, that is because the words are owned by the poster and it becomes the poster's liability. If a poster composes something, it is one of the many aspects readers can consider when deciding to deal with or not deal with that person (or the manner in which they might communicate during disagreements, disputes, or other problems may speak to how "reasonable" the person may make oneself appear). The ownership and liability concern also applies to anonymous third-party quotations, but that is why those have grounds for removal (there is no ownership if anonymous). Also, anonymous fabricated statements, if allowed, could be used to plant mental seeds in the course of an argument and create false voices of support or dissent.

In short, profanity is not edited out on the BOI and anonymous third-party quotations are often removed if not given attribution because the weight of their respective presences carries differing sets of implications and potential consequences.

 

[Lucille]

the BoI needs to be taken back to the unemotional, logical, respectful, informative place it is intended to be.

Bear in mind that a lot of opinion is a matter of perspective as well. Generally, if you agree with what is being said, you will tend to list such statements as being perhaps "forcefully direct opinions". And YAY for them. However, if you disagree with the points made by such statements, or even on the receiving end, well yes, they just might appear to be "mud slinging" to you. BOO for them.... The same words will look differently depending on who is actually doing the reading.

This site HAS come a long way in cleaning things up here. But it will never be perfect (in the sense of being EXACTLY what everyone wants it to be), and will never, ever be (at least in the BOI) a kind and gentle environment, simply because of the topic matter that tends to be discussed there. Discussing someone who screwed you out of your hard earned money doesn't lend itself to "bambi and roses" style conversations. Other people chiming in with their opinions of such actions are rarely going to be rubber baby buggy bumpered. That is just the nature of the beast. Granted, some people would really like to look at the world through rose colored glasses for their entire life, and I applaud the efforts to try to make the less tasteful aspects of life into a "out of sight, out of mind" sort of attitude. But to understand what exactly the BOI's goal is towards bad guys, you have to either accept the methods being used as being a reasonable compromise between allowing a no holds barred completely unmoderated free for all, and the other end of the spectrum of being a good guy only forum, with absolutely no negativity at all allowed. I'm sure some people would draw the compromise line either north of south to where we are trying to keep it, but trust me when I say that no matter what you may think could be improvements made here, it will be MUCH easier said than done.

The BOI was never meant to be unemotional. It was established to help those who have been ripped off, and those folks are not in an unemotional state of mind.
Michael, there is a 'report' icon on the left side of each post, it looks like a little red triangle. If you feel that a post violates the rules here you can report it, and the moderators will take a look.
Realize that infractions are private matters, so that while your report may initiate some consequences, those consequences will not be visible until a member gathers enough infractions to be banned.
But realize also, that strong responses can have value in finding truth, as long as they are not so strong that people fear to post (and you obviously are not one of those people).

While the subject matter of the BOI does not lend itself to the gentle environment you seem to be wishing for, it is well moderated, and it is effective.

 

[Casey Hulse]

Being flat out rude to people who have differing opinions or are not giving you the information you want is not a constructive form of conversation. It makes folks who do it look desperate and redirects a conversation from the topic and onto personal defense and offense. If you truly had the best interest of the community in mind, I don't think you would want to detract from the topic by doing such things.

Michael, I agree with some of what you are saying, but disagree as well. This is still a very good reptile website that I visit daily. I also go to other sites, some of them used to flourish, now they might see a couple new threads started in a weeks time. The difference ( IMO )is the way this site was created, without needless heavy handed moderation, it goes kind of where the members take it, not so much where webslave wants it to go. There are several very rude individuals here, a few are just trolls, and some actually have good intentions, but they are just rude. All of them have to live with what they post, as it will be here for a long time.
I for one welcome you here.

 

[Mistyck]

I think this sticky needs to revisited and reemphasised to a lot of the BoI "regulars". Some many of the folks there are helpful in a nonemotional, non judgemental, polite but not naive manner there are quite a few that are constantly on the hunt for someone to beat up on.

Revisited or not, everything you have requested was already addressed further up in this thread. Whether you like the answers given is another matter entirely.

There have been many threads over there recently that have been less than constructive and respectful and it is because of the manner in which some people decide to interact with others.

This kind of behavior is allowed to slide by quite frequently and I think it is because the demeanor has slowly taken a turn down a slippery slope and rudeness has simply become somewhat common instead of the exception.

How people interact with others is NOT the moderation teams concern to be honest. If people want to be jerkish in their responses with one another then that's on them. If they want to be helpful, then that's even better.

How do you know what is "allowed to slide by" and what isn't? You're not part of the moderation team, and you don't know what rules they have and don't have behind the scenes in regards to how they have to handle interactions or posts. Being rude doesn't constitute an infraction unless you call someone a name (as far as I know.) If you don't like the rudeness, then don't read it, but don't expect it to change from certain people. Also, don't expect the moderation team to have the same views you have concerning things.

I see unmoderated profanity getting thrown around over there more frequently with every thread. I see the OPs getting dragged through the mud by the tenth post before they can provide a single response to valid questions. Condescension and disrespect are running rampant and are going to ruin this fantastic place where folks come to voice concerns.

Again, how do you know what is moderated and what isn't? It's not your place to demand that something happens, and you don't know what happens behind the scenes and if infractions are given out for certain instances.

How the thread goes is dictated by the OP, and the people who respond. If the OP doesn't want to get dragged, then they work it out. The layout of the BOI is a pretty given thing, and the same questions are asked EVERY time. People who respond to threads ask pretty much the same questions every time, and then the OP's get all offended when they're asked for things. That's when snarkiness and the condescending tone comes out from a lot of the "regulars."

The BoI is clearly the most active place on the classifieds and this draws everyone in. Everyone wants to be part of the action and some folks do not care how they get their attention. They goes for OPs and responders alike.

Obviously, but does that mean that everyone should run the BOI how you think it should be run? No, it does not. If you don't like the way it's going, then obviously that is something offends you, not everyone.

I don't know how it gets done, but the BoI needs to be taken back to the unemotional, logical, respectful, informative place it is intended to be.

Interesting how you think the BOI should and should not work. People use the forum which means that it can never be an unemotional place. It is also interesting to see that you have your own misconceived notions about the BOI is or isn't.

I'm sure this post will generate a handful of negative comments from certain folks that love kicking others around and Im sure I will incur some more negative karma from this post but frankly I don't care. I have more interest in starting a conversation about fixing a problem on a board I love than making friends.

Sigh, you sure can hand out the BS crap about making this place better, yet be condescending about others in your own posts. You obviously care, or you wouldn't say that you don't care. You may see a problem, but that doesn't mean there is one. If you don't like the way the BOI is run, then you are probably more than welcome to figure out how to get one going that will run on your accord, because this one doesn't. It doesn't really matter to the owner, or the moderation team if YOU don't like the way things run, because Rich has found a rhythm for the way things run here and it works.

It's also interesting to see that you can demand how things need to change, and what the problems are within this board that you "love" when the majority of the posts on this board have been criticism in how this board is run & moderated.

We are all better than this and the BoI should be reflective of the best segment of this community rather than what it is currently showing.

I'm sure it takes all kinds to make sure how a board is ran, but you have to look at it as a society. Society is not perfect, so how can you request that a forum that is discussing individuals & members of a society to be perfect? It can't and it will never be unless it becomes a forum where you can only say good things about a person, and damn the other opinions. That would be a utopia, and utopia's do not exist. For you to demand that the BOI become one is asinine and is derived from what YOU want to see. Not from what best suits the community.

I'm sure you'll take everything that I have said as an attack, and if you do, so be it. I don't control the way you think, and quite frankly it doesn't matter to me what you think of me or the way I interact with people. What should matter is that you can actually garner the way the board actually runs, not the way you think it should be run.