Kingsnake problem, anyone else had this problem with classified account?

[Bob Clark]

One of the major theme of this whole threads revolves around the idea that if a person(s) is a known or convicted criminal, it is best to stay clear of any dealings (business or otherwise) with said person.

You've completely missed the point here. My interest in Miller is due the the fact that he owes me a substantial amount of money. He is a theif that has stolen from me and has been ordered by the court to pay me back. He's also a felon. If he's trying to legitimize himself through another business, well, I'm against that. I'm not interested in seeing Miller enter the market in any form.

Miller may, or may not, have friends, parents and other relationships. These do not concern me. I am only concerned with his dealings in this business and being paid what is owed to me.

 

[Darin Chappell]

To be fair, I have not seen Bob Clark on multiple forums trying to attack all those who happen to know Ms. Wong, past or present. It seems that what is being questioned here is not that Savannah knows Ms. Wong, but regarding how she knows her. How does an 18 year old girl make connections with people half-way accross the world?

That doesn't make her guilty of anything, but if the connection was made via Miller, why lie about knowing him to Bob in the first place, unless there is something to hide? I understand that she wants to appear to do things on her own, and does not want anyone thinking of her as a kid (her own site's description of herself is evidence of that), but Bob has every right to be suspicious, given the circumstances.

Since Miller is under court order to pay Bob back, he has every right to seek answers to the basic questions concerning the ownership of the animals in question. I have no problem with that.

Where I disagree with Bob is that he did not stop emailing Savannah after she clearly asked him to do so multiple times. I do not believe he was trying to coerce her into anything as some have supposed. I believe he simply allowed his desire to collect get the better of him. For the amounts we are talking about, I can't say I neccessarily blame him, but it is unfortunate nevertheless.

 

[Bob Clark]

Where I disagree with Bob is that he did not stop emailing Savannah after she clearly asked him to do so multiple times. I do not believe he was trying to coerce her into anything as some have supposed. I believe he simply allowed his desire to collect get the better of him. For the amounts we are talking about, I can't say I neccessarily blame him, but it is unfortunate nevertheless.

If I didn't have any facts to support my position in a discussion I think it would be great if I could just say stop, end of discussion, I'm out of here. It doesn't really solve anything though. Savannah had one weapon and she used it in lieu of a convincing argument in her behalf.

 

[mr2nr6]

Thanks Bob for the reply.

I actually do understand your point. Getting money paid back on what is owed will always be on ANY persons priority list. And you doing the same is not an issue.

It is an issue when other people seem to chime in on how they view Savanah once they learned that she is associating with a convicted felony in any shape or form.

"Savannah, the above statement tells me a lot about you, irregardless of all the other things that have been said. You hang out with a piece of poo such as Miller, a criminal, someone who was convicted of stealing snakes from someone, and you expect anybody to have an ounce of respect for you? You expect people in this business to take you seriously, while you are fraternizing with the scum of our hobby??" <--quote from Kelli Hammack

"I've got nothing against you personally, but if you keep company with people like Jeff Miller....I'm sorry to say, but you've basically taped a bullseye on your chest. " <---quoted from Alex Hue

"She had to know that involving a thief and felony animal smuggler in her new reptile business might have detrimental effects on its success." <---quoted from Mike Wilbanks

"And if I were to start a business......connecting with shady characters would have been the last thing on my mind." <--- quoted from Ritchie Luna

The above quotes depicts pretty well the general mindset a person typically adopts when finding out that a business or person is associating (in any form) with a KNOWN convicted criminal.

With that said, what are YOUR particular views about what I am asking? Is it okay to deal with a business or person that has a current association with a convicted criminal? If so, which circumstances would justify in doing so?

Again thanks for the prompt reply Bob Clark....

and everyone else for reading....

 

[Adam Block]

Tha law also states that you have to follow those posted sigs.
If an establishment posts a sign of no guns allowed.....then you decide to bring your gun.

You just broke the law.

No. In Arizona you are not allowed to carry a firearm where it is posted no firearms allowed.

You both need to look into the laws a little more. I was speaking of parks not private establishments. The reason I said park was because it's legal to carry in the parks despite the posted signs saying it isn't. Has nothing to do with this thread I just hate seeing people not know gun laws.

Sometimes, as is the case in many NC State law supercedes County or local laws. To double back up what I was saying if a County has a law saying "no guns in parks" but State law protects that right the signs are worthless for all but those who don't know the law.

 

[bpc]

Whewww! Finally! Man it took a long time to read all that!

And why is everyone dancing around the obvious here? Political correctness to the extreme?

Now, Savannah has done nothing wrong. Her judgement of friends/business associates may be questionable, but that's not illegal. I firmly believe that Miller is very involved with that business. But, unless Bob can prove that he is getting money/products/services from the business, to damn bad. Savannah owns the corp. She is the business. She can get info, help, whatever, from Miller all day long. The only part of that that concerns Bob is, what is she giving him in return. If he is getting paid in any way shape or form, Bob is legally intitled to part (and only part) of that "paycheck."

Bob, someone posted a very good question a few pages back. Did you (or someone you know) say ANYTHING to Jeff (or anyone else at Kingsnake) about Savannah? I believe you did. Sorry to jump to conclusions, but that's what my gut is telling me. Another thing my gut is telling me is that there is no way you are not interested in those snakes! Dwarf Burmese! Cmon, we've all seen how heavily you've jumped into dwarf retics, dwarf burms would be hotter than those by a long shot. You may have let your hatred of Miller get in the way, but everyone who is into burms for commercial purposes would LOVE to get thier hands on those snakes.

Kingsnake banning her for whatever reason is BS! If she had not violated the TOS, then it's BS. And, getting back to the heart of this thread, we, the herp communnity, really need to start taking a closer look at how we spend our money. Kingsnake is guilty of this crap all the time, yet we all run there to hand over cash. Why? To make cash. Because, we all are just as greedy as Jeff is. And he is the biggest outlet there is. Until we let these people known that this BS is unacceptable they will continue to do it. I try very hard not to shop at Wal-mart. Do I always succeed? NO, but I still try. I guarantee they lose at least $5000 a year of my money because of thier business practices. They still get probably $500 or so, but at least I try.

Savannah, I believe Miller is using you to run this for him. You know what? Great! Guess what? YOU and YOUR corporation now own the hottest new thing on the market. And guess what else. YOU can tommorow decide to sell everything housed in YOUR warehouse, hell maybe even the warehouse itself, to the highest bidder. Now, because Miller is probably very closely involved in all of this, and because we all know what kind of a guy he is, you will need to be VERY careful. You have a lawyer, make sure it is your lawyer, and not his. Hire a bodyguard, get some big dogs, good locks, and good security system and tell Miller to hit the road. If he balks, treatens you, or in any way, gets in your face about it, have him arrested. Because you have chosen to be associated w/ this guy, you will now have to stoop to his level. Get a good attorney, they are good at stooping. LOL

If you are truly interested in these animals, breed them and sell them. Bob Clark and Kingsnake.com will not be able to stop you. If you were tricked, coherced, conned, whatever, into all this, sell them and get out. You will not be successful if you don't know what you are doing. And if Bob does finally prove that Miller is involved, you will lose everything. Take the money and run. Run and hide, because Miller will probably try and find you.

 

[Bob Clark]

With that said, what are YOUR particular views about what I am asking? Is it okay to deal with a business or person that has a current association with a convicted criminal? If so, which circumstances would justify in doing so?

Nick, I'm not the moral authority here and I'm not trying to be. My only interest is in getting paid what Miller owes me.

 

[Bob Clark]

Did you (or someone you know) say ANYTHING to Jeff (or anyone else at Kingsnake) about Savannah?

no, and I have not banned her from my own site. She has posted there regularly in the past.

I try very hard not to shop at Wal-mart. Do I always succeed?

What's wrong with Walmart?

Another thing my gut is telling me is that there is no way you are not interested in those snakes!

I think they are interesting. If I want some I will buy them.

 

[TJEvans]

So, Bob.....what were your intentions when you made the exposure threat?

DID you follow through with it?

If so, what exactly did you do?

What about these ones, Bob......

By exposue threat, I mean, "exposing her to kingsnake"

Thanks

 

[Bob Clark]

TJ, I would have mentioned the connection on a Kingsnake forum. I didn't do it, this forum has been a better vehicle for the information.

 

[JungleHabitats]

lol ...

well i did get banned from bobs site ,,,

but it didnt bother me and yes i am still on the mailing lists and i do read them when they are mailed

I was banned for replying to a another memeber for asking if someone had any just plain normal babyBCI for sale i replied that if he wanted he could email me as i had some and left it at that. while maybe i was wrong for doing so he had already checked bobs site and he didnt have any available. No hard feelings bob I even have you linked in the forums from my website.
take care

 

[Bob Clark]

Whoops!, sorry about that!!

 

[TJEvans]

OK.....I can accept that

So, back to topic of the thread.......

BOB HAD NOTHING TO TO WITH SAVANAH'S ACCOUNT GETTING CANCELLED.

If he didn't contact Jeff, or follow through with his threat, then it wil lremain a mystery as to why Savanah lost posting capabilities on Kingsnake.com.

unfortunately, as I stated before, this only means that we will NEVER know why Savanah had her account cancelled.

Kssping with the topic of this lengthy thread, I'm pretty sure that it can now be left to sink to the bottom since an answer to the main question was never reached. It also appears that the sideshow of the Jeff Miller conspiracy will also never be answered since Savanah will no longer (obviously) post here again.

 

[DThomas]

You both need to look into the laws a little more.

I would suggest you do the same thing. I would bank on the fact I have a much better working knowledge of the law in AZ than you do. Maybe I wasn't clear enough in my other post but here you go:

Originally posted by TheGhost The reason I said park was because it's legal to carry in the parks despite the posted signs saying it isn't.

The only people allowed to carry in posted parks are CCW permit holders. Cities and Counties in AZ CAN enact laws/ordinances restricting carrying of firearms to CCW permit holders only. ARS 13-3108.C.5

Originally posted by TheGhost Has nothing to do with this thread I just hate seeing people not know gun laws.

Before you make such a broad sweeping statement you might want to find out what it is the person does that you are making the statement about. I make a living enforcing the law in AZ. When was the last time you read ARS? I read it completely through every year when we get the new and updated version. And it sits on my desk at work for easy reference.

 

[bpc]

Bob, I don't shop there for two reasons:

1. They do not sell certain drugs which can be prescribed by doctors to end pregnancy. If they run all the other pharmacies out of business, then where are people supposed to get them.

2. They force musicans who wish to sell thier cds in Wal-marts (often the only source of cds for miles around) to print edited copies. I don't like censorship.

 

[Bob Clark]

Kssping with the topic of this lengthy thread, I'm pretty sure that it can now be left to sink to the bottom since an answer to the main question was never reached. It also appears that the sideshow of the Jeff Miller conspiracy will also never be answered since Savanah will no longer (obviously) post here again.

I'm for that. I'll have more information to report after Miller's debtor's examination. Thank you and good by.

 

[Roger Jolly]

Uh, what is this thread all about again?

Just how many bad guys are there in here anyway?

1 - Savannah. She is cavorting with the devil, was in the jungles of Malaysia catching Chondros at the age of 8, and has made contacts at that tender age and risen quickly to the top of the food chain on imported high $$ animals. Last seen competing with Bob Clark.

2 - Jeffie. Somehow he flexed his miraculous powers of intuition and psychic abilities (or is Ms Cleo now one of the moderators over there???) and affixed the Savannah + Devil pact in the brewing and saved the world from the birth of the anti-Christ by banning her (them?) from kingsnake.com. Last seen flexing his pudgy fingers looking for the next person to ban.

3 - Bob. Somehow he expects us all to swallow the Jeffie psychic connection and that there is absolutely no connection between his threatening to expose Savannah on kingsnake.com, and her getting banned two (?) days later. Last seen looking in the mirror to see if his nose is growing.


Uh, Bob, you have made a very big deal about how Savannah lied to you and how that got your suspicions up. And that is why you are pursuing here now. Apparently you knew enough about the situation before you even asked the question, didn't you?

So how can you come on here, and flatly say that you have no idea why Savannah was banned from kingsnake? Sure, we could probably never prove it one way or the other, and a possible pending lawsuit from Savannah would probably keep it in your best interests to play dumb anyway. But how many of us do you think are really swallowing that story line?

If you have enough evidence to attempt to destroy someones business then you have enough evidence to build a case in court against her and her supposed relationship. If you don't have enough evidence, then just suppose for a moment that you are wrong. Are you saying that that just is not possible? Are you comfortable that a "Gee, Savannah. Sorry babe that I destroyed your business and credibility. No hard feelings, OK?" will make things better if you do happen to be wrong?

And by the way, I guess I need to put on my doubting thomas hat again. I just read your page about the burglary. I guess this is the short version. You don't have a burglar alarm system for all those high end animals? How did the people that stole those animals know right where to get them once in your building? Were any of these people past associates or employees of yours? I would expect your facility to be large enough that no one could just walk into it and immediately find exactly what they were looking for. Especially if they assumed there was a burglar alarm activated the moment they stepped into the place and they had no more than three minutes to find what they wanted and get out of there. I mean, they were rushing so much they left finger prints, right?

Is there a long version of this story somewhere? I would like to read it, please.

 

[Adam Block]

I make a living enforcing the law in AZ.

Oh well forgive me, I didn't know you couldn't be mistaken.

I only remembered you could because when a local gun group held there meeting at a park in AZ to make a point. A bunch of people who made their living "enforcing the law in AZ" showed up and put them in jail. Only to find out they were mistaken for putting them in jail. But hey, if you have a book on your desk you must know for sure.

 

[Adam Block]

You know what, I'm sorry for undermining what you were saying.

You could very well be correct and I may be wrong. This was some time ago as well and things may have changed. So forgive me sounding like I think you're stupid when I may be the dummy.

AZ has such easy open carry laws I never felt the need to get my CCW there. I've read the books but not the law books.

I was only trying to say sometimes laws are governed by other laws, meaning a websites TOS by local laws those by State laws and those by Fed laws. Point being TOS sn't the law and enforcing it may be breaking the law.

Sorry for sounding like an idiot.

 

[ms_terese]

3 - Bob. Somehow he expects us all to swallow the Jeffie psychic connection and that there is absolutely no connection between his threatening to expose Savannah on kingsnake.com, and her getting banned two (?) days later. Last seen looking in the mirror to see if his nose is growing.

Uh, Bob, you have made a very big deal about how Savannah lied to you and how that got your suspicions up. And that is why you are pursuing here now. Apparently you knew enough about the situation before you even asked the question, didn't you?

Roger, I think Bob already stated earlier in the thread that Savannah's name came up during the course of an investigation of Miller's assets. It is not difficult to believe that an investigator may well have had conversations with JeffB or one of his staff in relation to that.