Kingsnake Upped their price to post! Actually doubled it!

[Adam Block]

Neil said it best although he wasn't speaking for me:

we're ALL in this to TRY and make a profit.... you've got to go where the MONEY VOLUME is???....

I'm in it because I love it and when I started thinking about the money I stopped what I was doing.

Rich, you have a loyal base of people in this for the love of snakes. Jeff has a group of fairweather customers who don't like him but deal with his **** for the money he brings them. Much like the difference betwean a husband and a pimp. You two are night and day and I only suggest that you find a balance while keeping yourself and the site grounded.

You have a site with some amazing growth potential, where you go with that is your choice.

Adam Block

 

[Rob @ RK Reptiles]

Rich,

I am not sure you understand where some of the people are coming from. I personally help fund this site (Banner advertisements) and really appreciate the benefits I get from this site. I would pay to advertise here as well as I pay on Kingsnake. The BOI is and has been more valuable of a tool than KS or any other web site out there for many people. Even though KS is where alot of sellers make their money they are not running away from your site. I still use and will use your site for Posting animals for sale and the use of the BOI. I know a very large number of people will be unhappy if you decided to shut the entire thing down.
Also I belive this thread was started because the person thought or thinks Jeff is being a band person by increasing his prices and that is what this site is for. Letting others know about people doing things bad or the ones doing good.

 

[Arboreals of the Rainforest]

I know a very large number of people will be unhappy if you decided to shut the entire thing down.

I can think of a large number of scammers just off the top of my head that would be glad to see this site shut down. Just think of all the bad guys that will get a free pass should this site fold.

Just think of that when and if Rich asks us to pay to advertise. I know I will, traffic numbers of not.

 

[HerpVenue]

I can think of a large number of scammers just off the top of my head that would be glad to see this site shut down. Just think of all the bad guys that will get a free pass should this site fold.

Wow....that sums it all up for me.

While it is true...I keep promising monetary support.
And I do intend to make good on that promise.
But things are getting tighter on the Luna end. I can forsee my cable internet being the first to go. Then I will be on dial up...
Then the motorcycle will have to go to. How unfortunate because I only owe 1500 on it.

 

[jbuncc]

Well Rich, here's the way I see it...

This site is an incredible tool!! MOSTLY for the BOI, but that's because the rest of it needs to grow. Here's an idea, transfer the BOI to: http://www.boardofinquiry.com (which it seems you already own b/c I typed it into my webbrowser and came up with a message from you) and transform this site into KS competition. Link the two together so they can feed off one another (and add a link to your corn snake site as well, I didn't even know you had one until recently - this thread I think).
And actually, I agree with Adam when he suggested the following...
1) Forums
2) Keep it free for the time
3) Hosting
4) Find a site designer to work on a % and build sites for people
5) Choices, offer something from the little guy wanting a $100 site up to the big dogs. Offer free hosting with a size limit and banner ads up to whatever needs somebody big will have. People like to choose!
6) Caresheets
7) DIY Section
8) Information
9) Forums
10) Naked women

He listed forums twice, but they are important! (minor oversight, I'm sure )
Free is good. And the idea about turning the BOI into a pay service... BAAAAAAD idea. It is an incredibly useful tool as it is, however it does tend to suffer from the "good 'ol boy" syndrome once in a while as well as being a breeding ground for "bandwagoning". If it's turned into a pay forum, it WILL be useless because it will be a clique.
Hosting is a great idea! If I didn't get 10MB of free space with my ISP and I actually had a need for a site, I'd use FC to host my site in a heartbeat!
Caresheets!!!! That is SUCH a great idea. Think of all the misinformation spewed on a daily basis on the forums, all because people read some B.S. care sheet. Ask the best of the best to write the care sheets for you (and give them credit), post them onto a message board for further editing and feedback, and then make an EXTENSIVE care sheet section to the website.
A DIY is a good idea, but given the target audience, MANY disclaimers should be made throughout any instructions given. Basically, my thought is: if they need a caresheet, perhaps they shouldn't be doing other things themselves. But I think that some info like probing, or incubating eggs, etc... would be helpful. (With the probing, maybe the disclaimer could be: have an experienced individual help you, etc...)
And down to naked women, ALWAYS a good idea, lmao.

And Rich, you're classifieds section (which I'm guessing is where you feel the biggest problem of your site stems from based on your response) is good. It just is yet to see the traffic needed to move animals in the amount of time KS does. Give it time man, it WILL come around. And as for the idea of mirroring ebay's postings, I don't like that idea at all. Pinning some ads at the top while others get bumped from page to page just isn't fair. It will also create the idea in some buyers mind that the ads at the top are the ads with the best animals, when in fact, that may not be the truth or it could be the exact opposite of the truth (of course, the BOI could wipe that problem out quickly).

And something I just thought of, you may want to encourage the people posting ads to post a link to their feedback on the BOI (similar to ebay's link to feedback). Of course, you run into the problem of people not posting links to bad threads on themselves, but, it was just a recommendation/idea.

When you said...

From what I am hearing here and elsewhere, it is the traffic of the buyers that the people willing and able to pay the bills want the most.

... you may want to consider the fact that this site is relatively new. You will get the traffic eventually if you keep things innovative, attractive, fun, exciting, and truthful. And options! Options are always good!

Also...

Seems to me that it would be rather foolish to continue on my current course when it is very obvious that the financial angle is topmost in most people's minds here. Sorry about being blind for so long to that fact.......

I disagree again. I like this site the way it is and if you don't want to change it, I (and I'm sure others as well) will continue to see it as a valuable tool. That may seem weird given the context of the rest of this post, but basically what I'm saying is you can keep it the same and keep me happy, or you can expand on what you've got and capitalize on the mistakes of others and make this site better. Your choice, I'm fine with either.

Anyway, this site has a LOT of room to grow and better itself and I'd hate to see it taken down. It's run properly, it's easy to navigate, and it's extremely useful.

Best of luck with whatever path you choose for it, Rich.
JB

 

[HerpVenue]

10) Naked women

Well I like to help out anyway I can.
With that in mind.

I do have 513 megabytes of pictures. (down from 2gig)
I gots movies too.

Anything to help

 

[Neil Gubitz]

Well.... now that I've said my piece about KS.... let me get into the GOOD SIDE of Fauna.... as I said before, each site has it's advantages.... FOR NOW!.... Fauna has become the PREMIER site for Herp Talk and the like.... it is a lot easier to get around the site than KS, and the forums, here, are a lot easier to navigate than KS.... I, personally, have only posted TWICE on KS, the last time being about a month or so ago.... I don't like those forums, there are just too many "novices" to pique my intertest for too long.... I LIKE a good argument, especially one where I might end up learning something along the way.... you're never too old!

What disturbs me MOST about this site, will probably NEVER be seen by the people I'm talking about.... there are over 3000 registered users, and only 425+ people have read the TOS??? That means that there are over 2500 people that haven't even been here to read the new rules??.... This might be a good time for the Webslave to email all 2500 of these folks and "invite them back" to see the NEW YOU!!.... Why not give them an incentive??.... 10% off banners, maybe?.... The only way this site will TRULY grow, is by getting people to USE IT!!.... With enough support from US.... this site could be the best thing since perforated toiletpaper!.... If more of you would post some ads in the For Sale sections, more people would gravitate to this site to see what's up??.... It's got to start with us, because, right now, KS is for the Dealers, whereas Fauna is for the Consumer!.... This is a site where the CONSUMER finds out about the DEALERS.... but, if we (as dealers) see more than 450 people are actually READING this site, we will absolutely start putting more money into it because it will start reaching a larger audience.... it's a one hand washes the other type situation.... but, on THIS site, it's got to start with YOU, the consumer.... if you start BUYING your animals from THIS SITE.... we (again, as dealers) will start posting more and more, and pretty soon, Rich will start charging us!!.... lol
Look, I really do LOVE THIS SITE!.... I am doing everything *I* can to help out and support this site.... But, I NEED HELP!!.... I'm certainly not one to lay down and die.... I will CONTINUE to post ads on this site, and in a much greater volume.... as well as Moderate and post (much to the chagrin of some).... lol

Now, we (as dealers) can do OUR part, as well.... if we could get the "bigger names" to start posting on THIS site, then, obviously, THEIR customers will start coming here to see what's up.... and on and on and on, until Rich will HAVE TO start charging us, too.... lol Personally, I would love to see Rich become a millionaire over this site, because if that ever happens, it would be ONLY because we ALL succeeded!!

....Neil

 

[Rob Hill/Geckos Anonymous]

This site is definitely a useful tool in its current state. I would hope that you don't take my post earlier meaning I am going to stop using this site in favor of kingsnake. That is not the case with me AT ALL, and I am pretty sure not the case with everyone else. Everytime I post animals for sale on kingsnake, they are posted here as well. There have also been instances where I've posted animals here that I NEVER posted on kingsnake.

I will agree that kingsnake has provided me with more hits for my ads and more sales compared to this one. However, that does not mean better buyers or fewer window shoppers. Although I may be able to sell more animals, I go through twice the number of window shoppers(higher traffic does NOT guarantee a sale) and there have been times I've had animals posted daily for 2 months with no serious bites. The two people that have scammed me bigtime(Jon Dvoretz and Matt Bendig) were both advertisers on kingsnake that I met up with and got burnt by. I have yet to be burned by anyone coming off of this site.

And YES Rich, naked women are a MUST!!!

 

[EXCLUSIVELY EXOTICS]

NO

Rich,
Putting this website away is a horrible mistake. The way I see it you have to look at it this way. The glass is half empty when it comes to the people saying KS is better, but then again look at it this way the glass is half full because those people who said ks is better is still coming to this site everyday and replying. So who's saying this site gets less hits? I was not crying about the price I was making the general public aware of this and hope that everyone who sings your praises would step up and help. NO I didn't send a donation for this site, should I have yes, but when it comes down to it I would rather give you 100 to pay for privleges on this site! For all who voted no definitely then what are you doing on this site anyway, your here aren't you, why mooch be productive. I never have once seen any reps. of KS get involved as our webslave here have you? He is in this like the other 90% of us out there(The love of the animals.) Yes I want money too but if we all pitch in yes this site can be just as great, with a little hard work and effort you can raise any junker car from the junkyard can't you? Then why can't we restore this half decent car? Yes I probably will continue to use KS as for now, but just like the phone company, when they call with lower prices and a better service I listen. Do you shop around for your animals? Then why shouldn't we shop around for a better and cheaper site? I think this site could become #1 easy! If better quality comes from the smaller breeders and they get discouraged from ks and decide to come here and pay a fraction of the price then hits will foolow I assure you. As one great movie said "If you build it he will come" Instead of complaining about people complaining, and singing praises of KS help out. I know moneys tight everywhere, so give suggestions instead of statements. I want more money like the rest of us and if I can get it w/out spending more money but putting in a little work, Hell I will do it. So rich if you need help we are here. You have my e-mail address so e-mail me or call me at (267)992-4303. Hey I may be partially computer iliterate but I know buisness! Like I said before with us opening our store it is all location location location, WHY? BEcause if you can see it easier then the next you will go thier first. Get this site out of the closet, if you were going to pull the plug on this site anyway then hell start charging!!! What do you have to lose? My 54bucks is awaiting your demand. If it was going bye bye anyway then do it and see what happens. Worse case scenario you got my 54 bucks for nothing!!! LOL. Hope all stays civil and peaceful worldwide! So I hope stays for this tread.
Thanks
Vic Machese
Exclusively Exotics

 

[diablo snakefarm]

I agree with you Vic shure I will probably still pay for kingsnake but if I had another option I would be willing to pay I like the free BOI and have purchased some really nice animals through this site but some regulation would be nice to keep out the mischievious riff-raff
Jeremiah Ronsonet
Diablo Snake Farm http://beneathmusic.com/snakes/[/URL]

 

[Chondrophiles]

i didn't read this whole thing so if this has already been brought up please excuse me.
i'm one of the guys who only produces a few exceptional animals a year and the price increase will hurt me. i too would like to have another option and this site has a great head start but as everyone has mentioned ya need more traffic.
webslave, just a simple idea to get people to the other parts of the site.
when you click on the reptiles section of the site from the main page the top listing is the BOI. i think if ya move the BOI link to the bottom and have the classifieds be the first thing people see alot of people will click and check out what's available.
alot (likely most) of people come here just to read the boi and either don't realise the rest of the site exists or are just too damn tired to check out the classifieds after reading some of the nightmares that go on here and don't go back to see them.
put the classifieds at the top and get more people checking them out before you start considering charging for them.
my 2 cents, peace,
steve

 

[Chondrophiles]

woops, haven't posted here in a long time. name's steve barringer.
happy new year people!!

 

[Double "D" Reptiles]

all hail the little guys

Okay, I finally voted (for paying, but less...and that would sometimes be a deep reach into the pocket.) I look at kingsnake maybe once or twice a month, just to see if there's anything I positively can't live without in regards to project needs that hasn't been posted here. I generally can't stand KS because of all the problems I've seen along the way and have never paid them their fee to post. We have never been large enough here to warrant a yearly fee and prefer to watch the sale of our animals closely to be certain that they go to responsible people. I know, probably a whole lot naive and not the best business model but we've never been in such a position that we're making much money on our offspring and don't expect to any time soon. Heck, half of our 16 corn offspring this year are being held back for future breeders as I'm looking into genetic appearances and trait sharing and not looking to make much on our corns for a long while yet. I'd rather be known for careful selection of animals and knowledge about genetic traits than for selling a whole $#!^ load of animals that aren't in pristine condition. Guess I'm a little goofy that way, but it takes all kinds to make the world go 'round.

That said, I would pay a small fee just for the use of a quality site like this. We've sold animals off of here and some have not sold at all (that's the nature of the markets sometimes.) I'll be putting a FC banner on our site and removing the KS search engine banner in a bit (should have done it long ago but was too lazy to bother with it...wasn't in the way or anything, so why bother.) The professional nature of the core group here (Rich, Ritchie, Neil, Adam, Rob, Fred, Seamus, Ken and numerous others I'm not thinking of at this very minute), even with the disagreements we see sometimes is extremely valueable to me. I deal with, probably, 95%+ of all our intenet transactions as Debbie doesn't care for this end of it as well. She's the one that will sell 90% of the animals at a show...people may recognize my name and associate it from posts/website, but it's her they tend to deal with at a table. And she knows her stuff. We both do our own part to make things happen here and we compliment each other in our abilities and knowledge.

That's what I see happening with KS and FC. KS is like a big reptile show where people can see everything their little hearts desire. There are people who, like myself, prefer the quality of people on FC who will use KS simply because, at this time, it is the best way to sell animals...much like a show. However, FC is, in my mind, the premier place for professional minds to get together and hash out the BS that we encounter and sell our animals to others with professional attitudes and approaches. Would I pay membership to this "country club" of professional herpers for the privelage of sharing and selling, you bet. Do I know and respect some of the people who help out with KS...you bet (John Hollister leaps to mind.) I just hate the overall atmosphere that KS projects and do not want, at this time, to be associated with it in any way. I've felt that if I pay to advertise there I've done nothing but advocate the BS I abhor. So, even though sales have lagged and it's taking us a whole lot longer to reach the point we'd like to be at with our animals, I'd rather do it this way and respect myself in the morning. That's not to say others are wrong for doing it their own way. Heck, if everything breeds this next year and we produce the offspring that are actually possible, I may have to change my approach and rethink our needs. Between my job and Debbie's shows are difficult to attend now and, until we can reach a point where we both can replace incomes by breeding our animals (highly unlikely) we will need to sell the majority of them over the 'net or wholesale. I just hope that this site can reach a point quickly where it rivals KS for hits and sales so that I don't have to change my way of thinking.

So, I'll stop my typing here (hoping I've written something that makes sense and is not too long in the rambling department) and get that banner thing done. Rich, I'm willing to help in any way possible and when you decide to start charging, let me know...I'll find the $$ somewhere because I believe in this site and absolutely hate the idea of eventually needing to send money to Jeff for any reason.

David

 

[HerpVenue]

I'll be putting a FC banner on our site and removing the KS search engine banner

It is done. (at least on my end)
If everyone did this.....that would be one way to garner up some traffic. I put it on my Live camera page. I get about 100-200 hits a day just from that page alone of people watching my snake get ready to have eggs. I do not know how many are unique hits though.
http://ritchiereptileslive.camarades.com/

 

[Roger Jolly]

How long are you people going to ignore the main issue here?

Let me give you a couple of hints.

Both WEBSLAVE and ADAM BLOCK pointed your noses at it, but your eyes aren't seeing the words.

Take what Jeffie pulled on WEBSLAVE and put Joe Polanco's name in Jeffie's place. Oh yea! You all would be crying for blood then, now wouldn't you??? Look at the JoeP thread to see about you all chortling over JoeP deleting messages and blocking people he feels has done him wrong. What's different about what Jeffie pulled?

It looks to me that the only difference between how you all look at JoeP and Jeffie is that your wallet is stuck in the middle there.

A lot of people over the last few months or so have posted messages here about Jeffie's growing apparent megalomania. It is in his TOS that he can ban you simply by arguing with him. Well isn't that just ducky?

I seem to remember in one of the older BOIs that WEBSLAVE posted a list of people whom had threatened him with lawsuits. Boy did the sparks fly then! A lot of people were pounding on their keyboards then and sending whomever it was nasty grams telling them what a jerk the guy was. So it gets mentioned here that Jeffie hinted at a lawsuit that would involve WEBSLAVE and what did we hear from you all. Nothing. Not even a damned whimper.

Heads up you guys. You have basically given Jeffie the green light to do what ever he wants. You are all perfectly willing to keep lining his pockets with your money, giving him the working capital necessary to steamroll over everyone else in this business. And you all just try to tell me it's not going to happen.

I am sure he has been reading this board with interest to see what you will all say about his actions. And it is very obvous that you have told him that you will put up with anything he does as long as his site can make you all money.

Suppose he goes head to head with this site? Suppose he trumps up some reason to file lawsuit against this suit for any number of reasons? I think you all would abandon WEBSLAVE like rats from a burning barge. Suppose Jeffie starts methodically banning people from his site because they post their ads on other sites or have banner ads there. After all, it's his site and he can do what he wants, right? Do you think you all would start pulling your heads out of the sand then? No, I don't either. You probably won't do a thing until you feel that sharp pain in your buttocks and even then, all you will do is sheepishly request that he be a bit more gentle.

I think the WEBSLAVE should just close this site down now while he has a whole skin. There is no loyalty when money is in jeopardy. Scruples and ethis take a far back seat on the bus when money can be lost because of it.

This thread started out with someone strongly suggesting that an alternative could be made from this site. The response was underwhelming, at best. Yeah, WEBSLAVE might do a makeover on this site, but I think you all will just yawn and keep on paying Jeffie, making him bigger and stronger, giving him more incentive to make sure no competition can take away any money from him. But as long as you all can make money (before you tick him off and get banned yourself) this is OK, right?

You are seeing the symptoms now. Yet you refuse to even talk about it here. Guess what? If this site goes, where will you even hear about the next steps Jeffie takes? I think I will start calling Jeffie by a more appropriate name: Mr. Teflon. How's that fit?

I guess when all of the rest of the services on KS go up, you all are going to go right along with that as well, right? And you know that is coming, right? Are you doing a durn thing to give yourself more options or just keep on lubing up the ol buttocks?

I would like to say you should mark down my words. But by the time you all find that I am right, this site won't be here any longer for you to reference.

 

[Rob Hill/Geckos Anonymous]

Well, Mr. "Jolly,"

Let me say that as far as I am concerned, Jeff is NOT god. The Webslave is NOT god. Jimmy John-John is NOT god. I don't mean this as an offense to any of you, but noone is infallible. I don't see anyone here singing the praises of Jeff as you claim. What he's got running is a good site viewed by thousands and thousands of people each day(sorry, don't know the actual numbers). And as I said, I don't agree with the price hike because I don't see anything all that special that warrants it, but when the time comes for my current account to expire, yes I will most likely renew for the higher rate. Why? To keep my options open. Like I said in another post, never put your eggs all in one basket. Kingsnake is NOT my only source of herp sales. Fauna has brought me sales as well as well as a few other lesser known free classifieds boards. Kingsnake.com will NEVER be my only outlet for selling animals. Faunaclassifieds.com is a great site and as many of you know I use it very often, but it will never be my ONLY outlet to sell animals. I will use kingsnake.com and faunaclasifieds.com TOGETHER to sell my animals. If Rich were to decide to start charging a nominal advertising fee, I would pay.

Jeff is out for money, plain and simple. That is what comes from running a business. If he chooses to ban anyone that even thinks about the BOI, then so be it. As crappy as it is, kingsnake.com IS the property of Jeff Barringer and he can allow whomever he wishes to take advantage of his services. If he wants to listen to what is being said and come up with better compromises to suit his customers, good for him, glad to see he's paying attention. If he doesn't and he wants to make it $500/year to have a standard classified account, that is his prerogative. Would I pay $500/yr? Hell no, I don't produce enough to justify THAT kind of outlay on advertising. But if he were to go to that extreme, he would end up shooting himself in the foot because I doubt THAT many would renew at those prices.

Bottom line, Fauna good. Kingsnake good. Fauna cheap, kingsnake not so cheap. Both sell my animals I post. I will spend money with both when the time comes.

 

[Arboreals of the Rainforest]

Here is the number of Visits to Kingsnake for the month of Feb., 2002. Every month seems to be pretty equal in number.

 

[EXCLUSIVELY EXOTICS]

Everyone stop grumbling about who is right who is wrong etc etc. When I started this thread I expected to see support for rich and this site. I know if all of you people keep coming back here and tiff this and tiff that then you would care if this site went under. All I wanted to do was to gain support for and show it to rich. He needs it for God sakes. Fine Kingsnake has problems, Fauna has problems, Hell I have problems but if we want to keep talkting then just do that! But I think at this point in this tread everyone who replies needs to do this, show support to this site. You all are obviously loyal people to this site and the majority of the people psting are all long time members and good people, so can't we all put our heads together and pull something out of our butts to help this site? I mean hell after this holiday I think my butts big enough to pull something good out! LOL! I know I have met some of the best people I have ever dealt with on this site(Ben Sparks Shawn Gray, etc!) I just hope the future replies are positive in at least the support section. Damn Rich is going through hell now, and why wouldn't he I mean all the people who he converses with daily who he felt would go down with him to the end basically have said they would pick another site over his. If it's true then fine but don't tell him jeez! It's obvious in his one post he is at his witts end with trying to save this site, and giving up seems like a good alternative to his headache! I hope it doesn't come down to that! I mean he has already tried to gain hits for this site he has already reconstructed it how many times??? Just give him support and tell him what you like about KS that you would like to see applied on this site. IE what would make this site more desireable to you??????? Hope all is well with everyone
Vic Machese
Exclusively Exotics

 

[dwedeking]

The only way that I can think of to generate the sales that people will need to make this a primary site for advertising is to replicate what Jeff has done at KS. Is this what you truly want? I like the fact that this site is primarily focused on the business end of the industry, which is what makes it unique to the online world.

FC is my first stop when I log on in the morning. This is why when Rich asked for donations, it was paypaled over. When he had problems with enough advertisers, I added a second banner. These net me few sales (just to show that it is not a business decision) and done strictly to assist the site.

My recommendation to Rich is to make this site as maintenance free as possible and relax. Enjoy the fruits of your labor.

If you wish to make a profitable portal type site then let us know what you need from us (most of us have caresheets you can replicate, bannder ads that can be bought, and classifieds we will pay for, forums we can assist people in), but my personal opinion would be to do it separate from BOI as the demographics to the two ventures will be different.

 

[Fred Albury]

No doubt!

Man, I am appauled at the criticism waged against Ritchie. The guys builds this site and monitors it and what does he get in the end..................*Grief*

This site, being a viable alternative to Kingsnake, is a valued commodity. Yes changes could be made, and I hope that they will, on order to make it more competitive. I have advertised on kingsnake in the past and present, mostly to sell snakes. I think that several of the posters here are right when they say that no one is comeing to Ritchies aid financially or otherwise, and he bears the brunt of the labor. I am guilty of this too and have taken a small step in trying to change that(Read my ads) but know that more needs to be done. Whenever I want to know the truth, whether good or bad about a breeder or keeper,I come to Fauna. The forums on kingsnake, contain some truth , to be sure, but they also contain amyriad of cliques(Especially boa) which merely cheerleads existing bad guys(Cagle) and showcases pictures. Fauna on the other hand showcases a lot of knowledge and involvement on the part of breeders and customers. I truly think that this site is a valuable commodity and definite threat to existing servers that specialize in reptiles.

Yes,I have and will advertise on Kingsnake, not because I am feeding into it, but simply because I am trying to sell snakes that I have to sell. Note the word HAVE TO in there, not want to, if it was want to, I wouldnt sell squat and I would come on here to engage in discussions. And thats it. Hopefully one day that where I will be at, with the exception of a 3 monthswindow when I am trying to sel mt snakes. But who knows?


I think we should try and support Ritchie the best way we can, any way we can. It would be a damn shame if this site didnt exist, truly.

Well, thats al for now, take care and have ahappy New Years.


Fred Albury
AZTEC REPTILES