Kingsnake Upped their price to post! Actually doubled it!

[EXCLUSIVELY EXOTICS]

Thank you guys now thats what I was looking for. There were some very good ideas brought up there which should be highly thought about. Fred we all know you don't need to advertise people come to you no matter what!!!!! See rich I told you there was a silver lining somewhere. I know the herd will soon follow. We are here at your convience!
Thanks Guys
Vic Machese
Exclusively Exotics

 

[Adam Block]

Hey Rich, you ever notice. It's always mister nice guy, you know, the one who stops to help the older lady with a flat on the hwy. It's always that guy who gets hit by the car and killed in return for the good deed. For that matter, they say no crime goes unpunished when I think they meant no good deed goes unpunished as it's always the guy like Jeff getting rich and the guy like Rich getting Jeffed!

I'm so sick of this crap, so sick of the reptile "business", so sick of the money, the people who are never happy, the people with sick animals, the 12 year olds with the nicest looking sites, the who cheap, checks in the mail, I'll take it, can you include free shipping on the $20 corn, I like you, I don't like you, my morph, your morph, his morph crap that I think I'm just going to back away from this for awhile. We're all adults and very few are acting like it including myself, I'm very unhappy with how I've acted and I can only hope many of you can refect and come to the same conclusion.

If you all need anything feel free to shout and good luck with the junk. I'm starting to feel like a green peace member myself. So worried about that damn seal I can't see the boat headed right for me.

Good luck Rich either way you go and look out for CARS!!

Adam Block

 

[HerpVenue]

Hey wait a second guys.
Don't get us confused. We are two different people
Rich Z = webslave = cornsnakes.com = BOI= faunaclassifieds.com = herpwantads.com = good guy = wise man

Ritchie L. = RitchieReptiles.com = good guy = loud mouth = can't shut up= jerk


someone mentioned that Rich is at his wits end trying to save this site.
I would like to differ in my opinion.
Rich might be at his wits end. but it is not to save this site. He might be trying to improve....but not to save.
This site does not need saving. it will never go down (unless the plug is pulled). this site is a very valuable source. I have sold from both this site and KS. I did not have much animals to sell.....so I would say I got 50/50 from both sites. So if I paid to sell 50% of my animals on KS. I would pay to sell the other 50% of my animals on here.
Also this site either has or will have the support of all the people it has saved from being cheated.
(okay...the point I am trying to make is probably not very well conveyed in the above paragraph) I guess my point is this site is not going down. it is just having a REVOLUTION !!!!

What this site needs right now is traffic to increase the banner sales and traffic to convince other people to fork over some of their cash and support this site.
so what we need now is to pull our heads together. Brain storm. etc etc. fork over some cash too.

Now there are people out there who say they are not willing to pay for adds right now because it does not get enough traffic.
I think traffic is the key.

what can we do to increase traffic?
1. Word of mouth. (KS is nothing without the word of mouth)
2. Different sturcture to the forums (yes we do have forums...but it seems no one can find them)
3. Links. link to this site from your website if you have one. (if you look, almost every single little itty bitty site has a KS link)
4. Banner exchange. .....It does not necessarily have to be a banner exchange. Your banner does not have to appear on fauna. if you look, my banner is nowhere to be found on fauna....But yet you can easily find fauna's banners on my website. So if you can't give up cash or time or ideas.....at least grab the banner and put it on your website (if you have one) and link it.
5. Hosting. Those of you who are looking to have a website......have it hosted here. some of you will say "but there is not enough traffic here" here is a little note. If you have a hosted website......the traffic on fauna will not affect your website. Fauna can get a million hits a day....but if your site su(ks......you won't be getting hits. conversely, if your website is cool, fauna can get one hit a day....but your website can get a million. In other words...one does not affect the other. so if you are looking to make a website.....have it hosted here.

okay that is all I could think of for now

 

[HerpVenue]

Jeff Barringer calling me on the phone, DEMANDING that I delete Adam Block's thread off of MY site, drop a hint about a lawsuit, and then tell me he was BANNING any mention of the BOI on KINGSNAKE.COM

I have seen everyone talk about prices. (which Jeff has the right to raise)
I have seen everyoe talk about bans (which Jeff has the right to implement)
I have seen everyone talk about rules being selectivley enforced (which he has a right to do....even though I would prefer that they fairly be enforced)
I have seen everyone talk traffic and stats and such.

What I would like to find out more about is this lawsuit business.
Was this lawsuit "hinted" at by a guy who just happened to be mad?
Was this lawsuit "hinted" at by a guy who means business?

When Taron Langover and Brian Rogers and some cricket company (or is that mouse company) threatened lawsuits.....Everyone jumped at the chance to "talk" their piece. Everyone jumped at the chance to "boycott".
Now ask yourselves this.......Why did everyone boycott the cricket place? Because there was competition to turn to, that's why.

But now that Kingsnake mentions lawsuits........it ws just a passing thought in the wind? No one wants to talk abou tit? why?
Because people are scared to talk that is why.
I have been getting e-mails and PM of people who are complaining aabout KS......but they do not want to say anything publicly.
Hello Brains !!!!
Let's see if I can follow your train of thought.
1. You complain about KS
2. You get banned from KS because of your complaint
3. You can no longer move your snakes because of aformentioned ban.
4. You go broke and die.
Did I get it right?

Now follow my train of thought.
1. You 100 or so people get the basketBALLS to complain about KS
2. You 100 or so people get banned.
3. You 100 or so people take your business to someone else
4. The rest of the world will be mad because KS banned you for complaining and voicing your opinion.
5. So then everyone decides to go away from KS
6. KS goes down.
Now with that in mind.........Do you really think Jeff will ban you because you decided to have an opinion? I think the guy might be smarter than that.


Oh and another thing. Take this analogy.
I am a wanna be comedian.
I go to the funny club and tell my jokes there. People find me funny and have a whole hell of a lot of respect for me there. but if I go to any other clubs no one laughs at my jokes. What should I do?

If all your sales are from KS
And you can't make it in this world without KS
Don't you think you better find something else you can be good at?

 

[HerpVenue]

If all your sales are from KS
And you can't make it in this world without KS
Don't you think you better find something else you can be good at?

I have at least a dozen friends who fall into this category.
I do not mean to offend you.
but you seriously need to look at your business plan.
(Grant it, I am not a business, so what the H3LL am I talking about right?)
If you are sending money to Jeff because you can sell at KS and you can sell at the other countles sites.......good for you.....go for it.
But if you are sending your money to Jeff because he is all you got..........Time to look at the business plan.


and someone enlighten me about this lawsuit business.

 

[Adam Block]

I know the two Rich's and didn't confuse them.

What you're looking for is Rosa Parks and there sure as hell is no Rosa Parks in the herp business. You're asking people to risk their income for what? Because Jeff has gotten too big and needs to be knocked off his high horse?

Well, I'll tell you. People don't play when it comes to money, they don't take chances! They put it someplace safe like the IRA, 401K or some Mutual fund because it's safe there! Then 911 happens, they loose their ass and don't understand how it happend. Well, I'm not going to loose another minute of sleep thinking about it. I'll just do like many other great breeders and forget about the hobby.

My wife has beading as a hobby. I've never seen her deal with this BS! She just makes stuff out of beads and that's it. NO POLITICS, NO BEAD BOI, NONE OF IT!

Just let this thread die! I'm 100% sure this has been an eye opener for the webslave! It's been one for me and nothing will change. People are either too lazy, too gready, too anal, too scared of change or too scared of Jeff.

To make change you need people, backing, support. Rich has support but the masses don't wanna pay him and the few of us that like Rich enough and see what he could do don't seem to be enough.

The one thing that amazes me about people. The one thing that makes me think I'm loosing it, is when I ask. Why the other cows can see that there's a line of them going in one end of the building and trucks going out the other end. Well, I know it's the slaughter house so I'll just keep myself out and not worry about the masses.


Adam Block

Sometimes it tough knowing the sky's blue when 6 billion people tell you it's red. But you just can't get some of the kids to color outside of the lines no matter how hard you try.

 

[Darin Chappell]

Something a bit off target, but interesting nonetheless:

WebSlave,

According to the poll as it currently stands (2:44 p.m. on 12/30/02), whether they are willing to pay $54 per annum, less than that amount, just for Fauna, or for Fauna AND Kingsnake . . .

76.71% of the people who voted are WILLING to PAY for this site's classified accounts!!!

Surely, we can get something done here! Kingsnake may very well reign supreme in the herp selling biz for the next fifty years, but that does not mean that the WebSlave should have to settle for no classified remuneration whatsoever!

I'm willing to pay for the right to sell animals listed here and on cornsnakes.com (where I HAVE sold several of my animals, by the way), especially since I know that it will help to keep the rest of this site up and running. Sometimes, the whole is greater than the sum of its parts, and that is EXACTLY the way it is with Faunaclassifieds and the BOI!

 

[WebSlave]

Darin,

76.71 percent of 74 votes is not exactly an overwhelming mandate. There are presently 3,323 registered members on this site. Granted not all of them are currently active, and I'm sure I lost a bunch of them when I converted to the new message board system. So suppose we just cut that number in half.

What is that telling me? That roughly 3.4 percent of the TOTAL registered people will be willing to pay. Yeah, I know not every one of those people have read this thread and voted, so certainly the number is in between 3.4 percent and 76.71 percent. Probably lower rather than higher. I suspect that most people would just find being hit with a notice that they need to pay from here on out as an ushering out the door for them.

No. Charging for posting ads or anything else other than the banner ads would be the end of this site. No, I'm not going to do that. If the banner ads and the occasional donation don't carry the site, then that's the way it is. If at some time in the future I feel differently, I will address this issue again at that time.

First thing on the agenda is to move this site over to my new server. That SHOULD be with a minimum of disruption since I discovered a trick with DNS pointers that will make this an extremely quick switchover. I do have to shut down the board briefly to backup the database, reload the software on the new site and then restore the database on the new server. That might be a couple of hours, at most. I may do this over the next couple of days when everyone is either preparing to get drunk or suffering from a hangover.

Next thing will be working on a restructuring. I'm working on a rough draft right now, and it's mostly just a mental exercise to see how robust this message board system can be. Some people will like it and some won't, but it's never been any different around here, so I'm not worried about it. I doubt I'll get all of it done and polished in one fell swoop anyway, so it will likely be a continual work in progress as I think something else might be better to try.

OK, to be honest, I guess I need to get this out in the open right here and right now. This thing with KS has shown a glaring weakness in the BOI. It is not impartial. It no longer has any credibility, because KS is a blind spot to most people. Regardless of the cause, it is something that people can now point to and say that the BOI is not impartial, it is not fair. What can I do about this? I can't allow it to just fester by ignoring it. It's a liability that I need to address. But I'm not sure how.

The only people whom apparently will say anything negative about KS are those whom have already gotten banned or bumped heads with Jeff or one of the moderators. Anyone else that has an account with KS, yet has some real misgivings, will not say a word for fear of being banned because of what they say here. Whether they are right or wrong is immaterial. The fact that they believe it and act accordingly is enough for anything said about KS to be biased. I can think of no other person or business where this same situation will apply.

So far the only suitable recourse I have been able to come up with is to completely eliminate any discussion about KS on this site at all. All mention of KINGSNAKE.COM or JEFF BARRINGER will be removed from the site completely. If the discussion can ONLY be biased and incomplete, then maybe it is better if the discussion just was not here at all. An impartial observer reading any of the threads about KS would come to the conclusion that it is only sour grapes being spouted off by people that screwed up on KS and got banned. Everyone else, from the lack of contrary input, must be happy with their relationship with Jeff and KS. Yes I do understand that there are LOTS of people happy with KS, and I'm not trying to say otherwise. But the scale is too heavily tilted for the wrong reasons.

Please understand that I am not considering doing this out of spite because my site was banned from KS. To the contrary, I do not believe it will make any difference at all to what this site does or where it goes. I have always made every attempt to keep it independent simply because I respected Jeff and his wishes not to have competing sites try to use his site as a stepping stone.

But if there is overwhelming evidence that someone can point to as indicating a clique of KS supporters (or lack of detractors), then I either have to take it on the chin and admit the BOI is biased when it comes to anything to do with KS, or surgically remove the problem and hope the wound heals over cleanly.

So that's my thoughts on this. I am not asking for anyone's opinions, because as I have seen, most opinions I would receive on the topic will be suspected of being biased. I have to make my own decisions on this based on my own interpretation of what I see with my own two eyes.

Thanks.

 

[HerpVenue]

Well as for me.
I have always talked "bad" about KS before I got banned. On the same token I have also stood up for KS before I got "unbanned" and So people saying I am against KS because I got banned are ignorant of what is really going on. And the others who say I stood up for KS because I got "unbanned" are also ignorant.

Besides I have mixed feelings about the whole thing. I see two sides.

Side 1. If you are giving money to KS because they are part of your business plan......GO FOR IT.
sIDE 2. If you are giving money to KS because you have nothing else.......find something else for you to do.


Side 1. Jeff can ban whoever the H3LL he wants.
Side 2. umm maybe he should enforce the rules more fairly.

Side 1. Props to you if you can make grown men cry.
Side 2. Have a little compassion. It is kinda disgusting to see grown men cry.

Side 1. Props to you for getting so big.
Side 2. Don't forget the reptile lover in you that got this whole thing started.

Side 1. Good Job on getting the moderators.
Side 2. There are a cople moderators who give hints of being animal rights activists.....get rid of them

Side 1. Part of me wants to slap some sense into him.
Side 2. Part of me wants to slap some sense into myself.
Side 3. Sh!t part of me might actually like getting slapped around (Just kidding)

Side 1. Enforce the rules across the bored.
Side 2. It is his business if he wants to give a couple friends a little leway when it comes to the rules of his board.

 

[jbuncc]

Spite and revenge are truly awful things. Here, they've suppressed free speech and the conveyance of experience and thought. This situation upsets and appalls me. I've shared my negative experience with kingsnake here, and eventually was in-part responsible for Ritchie being banned from the site. I asked the webmaster who banned him to please reconsider his decision, and he explained why he could not. Ritchie later had his privelages reinstated and I'm still fuzzy about that, but I suppose that's the way the ball rolls. Kingsnake is imperfect. Everyone knows that. The BOI is IMPERFECT. Everyone knows that. That does not make either useless. It makes them run by people, and that's OK. Rich, if you are going to shut down any mention of kingsnake on this site because of the nature of the replies, you may as well go ahead and shut down the WHOLE site because no story will ever be told without bias and with complete details. I know from experience that people have had dealings with buyers or sellers mentioned on this site, and they wont speak up. Why? Well, there are 1000's of reasons but that doesn't make what discussion has already gone on null and void. It just means that a piece of the puzzle is missing. But Rich, for the sake of illustration, think of a puzzle with 1000 pieces. You try to put it together but are missing a piece. Can you still get the picture? (honestly, no pun intended) Yes, you can. What if 20 pieces are missing? 50? 100? Yes, you can! My point is that a picture can be painted about something even though pieces are missing. With respect to kingsnake, everyone knows what he's doing. Everyone has their own opinion on it and we also have enough pieces of the puzzle to make up our own mind about it. Don't go shutting this site down because you're missing a few pieces of the puzzle, ok?

Now, moving on...

I've thought about the contributions I can make to aid in the growth, expansion, and probable success of this site. What I've come up with are merely suggestions that I've made and they've yet to really be addressed. I suppose my opinions and suggestions don't REALLY matter because I'm not a professional. I'm still learning about boas, the business surrounding them, and my future with them.

I've seen dozens of other suggestions that are, in my opinion, equally valuable (whether they are realistic or not - they are still suggestions and are worthy of contemplation and possible implementation, on even a minute scale). It seems to me that the contributions being made to this site are being ignored, unless they are monetary.

I have little money to work with, so apparently, this is not the site for me to learn, appreciate, and grow on. Maybe things will change. Maybe not. Until then, I'll just read what's here and keep my (non-professional) contributions to myself.
Goodbye.

Jonathan Brady

oh, to save everyone's eyes, I've decided to cut this short, because I have to run. I've got plenty of thoughts on the issue, but as I've stated, they're probably not important. Sorry for any misspellings, I don't have time to proofread.

 

[WebSlave]

No Jonathan, I am listening to all suggestions made and weighing them in my mind at this time. Sone of them are rather labor intensive and would require rather extensive modifications to this message board system software. Something that would take a great deal of time to do. This is a VERY complex piece of coding here.

Since I have been a programmer for a number of years, I look at things from that perspective. And some of the suggestions made by non programmers are not taking into consideration a lot of technical details. As an example, imagine going to your local car dealership and telling them that you really would like to buy that car if only they would put the engine in the rear for better traction rather than at the front. Anyone whom knows suspensions, drivetrains, and all the other details that go into designing and building a care would instantly disregard such a request, although the person making it might not realize what it was they were asking.

I'm sorry, but I just cannot respond to each and every suggestion with my thoughts on them. For one thing, I may not want to be completely open about what my plans are. I may have to try some things to see how they work and I don't see any reason to bore everyone with those sorts of details.

I've got some things in mind, but all in due time, all in due time....


Oh yeah, before I forget. Ritchie, he details of that hinted at lawsuit threat are that when Jeff had called me on the phone that day, he was obviously agitated about Adam Block's thread and particularly the website KINGSNAKESUCKS.COM. He stated that he was going to be taking Adam to federal court and there was a good possibility I would be named in the suit for the thread appearing on my site. I reminded him of the protections in place put by Congress to defend internet moderators from such actions, but it didn't make an impression on him. This conversation was pretty much identical to a similar conversation I had with Joe Polanco a while back when he was threatening to sue a couple of people over their postings on this site.

Anyway, that's it in a nutshell.

 

[John Albrecht]

Hi Rich,

I was noticing that not many people had responded to your survey yet.

Don't get discouraged. You'll probably have more traffic after the holidays are over. Hopefully as more and more people catch up and login you'll get a better feel for the numbers.

It seems like a nice opportunity for you and us.

Happy Holidays.

-John

 

[Bobby Douglass]

The most damage done to someone's reputation is usually done by themselves. No amount of complaining anyone could have done about Jeff could have made him look worse in my eyes than his threat to sue Adam and Rich. In my eyes only cowards threaten to sue people for no good reason. I've always liked the kingsnake site but Jeff has really disappointed me.

 

[Uffern]

I, for one, have not been banned by Jeff (yet), but I am more than willing to share my thoughts on KS, as I have in the past. I can't really say anything about Jeff or KS that hasn't already been said by at least on person or myself. I think Jeff is an egomaniac, I believe he thinks he has a monopoly, and I think Jeff and his site are just about at the top of KS hill. With the way that he has been acting, all it will take is a little nudge from the guy behind him to push him off, in the form of free info, paid classifieds, and complete professionalism.

Of course, I have nothing to lose by saying this. I have not made one cent off KS, and I will not fund any reptile organization that is so biased in it's enforcement of the TOS and that hires moderators that will delete a post because they disagree with the person's opinion, or are for banning all animals as pets.

Honestly, I don't care whether or not they fix the problems. I will never do business with KS.

Someone will come along and take up what Jeff feels he can cast off. Rich doesn't have to be that person. He would be in a good position to do so, if that is what he wants for this site. If he doesn't do it, I'm sure someone is not far behind.

How's this for an idea? Everyone who is willing to pay for classifieds, make a donation in place of a payment, an amount that you think is fair, and do this every so often, as often as you think is fair. Rich has said that he does not want to charge for classifieds. So be it. That doesn't mean that those of us who are willing to pay for this site can't help support it anyway. It may not be a way of eliminating bogus ad posters, but it is a way for you to pay for classifieds (which a lot fo people seem to actually want) and thus keep this site operational, and it is a way for Rich to keep this site free to the public.

 

[jbuncc]

i know i said i wouldn't offer any more ideas... but how about two classifieds sections here? one you pay for, the other you don't. and you get benefits for paying like you can post 3 ads per day vs one per day in the other section, etc..... and eventually, the people who aren't selling their animals in the free portion of the site (because of all the cheap/ugly/half-dead animals they've surrounded themselves with) will move over to the pay portion because it's worth it (more professional and surrounded by better quality animals). they'll see the benefit of it, or they can opt to stay in never never land and be oblivious.
just an idea. take it if you want

 

[WebSlave]

Boink!!

You know, I was feeding snakes tonight, thinking about all this and thought maybe I would give a friend of mine down in Crystal River (FL) a call tomorrow. I was going over what I would tell him about this, and suddenly I could just see him laughing his ass off at me. He would say "Rich, let me get this straight. You are busting your butt on that web site of yours, and here people want to PAY you to use it and you are fighting them tooth and nail over it trying to keep them from doing so. Is that the way it is?" Yeah, we'll both be splitting our sides for sure over that one.

And it can't be more appropriate that he would be the one laughing at me. Here's a guy that owns a pawn shop and has a FFL to sell guns. He has transferred a LOT of guns for me since I met him and we got to know each other. He has NEVER charged me a single dime for this services. And I know he does this for other people he considers as friends as well. I have had to take him gifts of odds and ends since he won't take money since I just can't let him do that all of the time. I gave him a Colt Delta Elite 10mm once and the damned dummy turned right around and gave me a H&K model 270 .22 rifle, which was about of equal value to the Colt. The irony of it all is that he is going out of business. He can't make ends meet with his business so he is just getting out of it completely. He basically let all of his friends put him out of business, and we all inadvertently allowed it to happen. Although I feel pretty confident they fought him about it as well I did, he was probably every bit as hard headed to them as he was to me, and likely as I am being in here to all of you.

It's like looking in a mirror, I guess. And maybe I realized this none too soon. I was working myself up into a lather over this and maybe I just need to be practical about it all. I've led the horse to water, but since it won't drink, well hell, I might as well take it for a ride for a while.

So yeah, perhaps I will start charging for people to post ads here. After giving it some thought, it's probably really not those people contributing much in the way of impressions to the banner ads here anyway. I think a lot of them swoop on in, place their ads, and then just swoop on out again. I'm going to be expanding the forums a bit and try to make it easier to get to them, so if I lose a little traffic from freebie posters, I think I will make it up elsewhere.

And as for the people whom voted they would not pay to advertise, well, I guess we're just going to have to miss you around here, I suppose. Personally, it is embarrassing to me to have to solicit for donations to help out here. Banner ads are picking up, and if the number of people whom say they are getting banners together will actually come through, I may find that I have to set a cutoff in order to make sure everyone gets their ads seen a reasonable enough times per day.

And I am just about ready to start offering web hosting for people interested in it. So if everything starts to fall together, I think it can all work out OK.

Now all I have to do is to keep my sanity. But to be honest, some days I think about being in a rubber padded room and it don't sound all that bad to me.

 

[Dennis Gulla]

I'm glad that you finally have seen the "light" Rich! Continue charging for the banner ads........and yes, charge for the classified ads as well.
I know that when I am ready I won't have a problem paying to place ads. Nothing is free anymore.

I am also very interested to hear more about the web hosting. I am going to start on my website in the spring.

Now go out there and take some pictures of those surplus adults and get them posted on your page! LOL.

 

[Darin Chappell]

Yes, Rich, that IS the coffee you're smelling!

I'll be ready for the webhosting services AND the banner ads very soon in my own little business. Just keep us informed as things progress from your end. If you need some deposit money in place of good intentions, please let me know as well.

Thanks for a GREAT site!

 

[WebSlave]

I think I will go watch that movie 'Multiplicity' again and wish it were real.............

 

[Darin Chappell]

"Multiplicity"?

Sorry, I must have missed that one. Missed your referrence too, therefore.

???