Luis Taracena (herphobbiest) bad deal

[HerpHobbiest]

How big was the albino boa? Maybe it is the picture, I am trying to guess the size along with the box it is in. My concern is if the snake was big enough to handle a large rat. Maybe my idea of a large rat is bigger than Luis's idea of a large rat.

This does not make sense


Maybe you can expound a bit without contradicting yourself. Unless you were being sarcastic.

Michael,

The Albino was an adult proven breeder male... 4-5 ft long.

This is an older picture before the snake was in my care...

This picture was taken on Feb 20th 2006 while under my care. (Ceramic water bowl and hide Box Removed for the picture)

As far as the comment for which I was being a little sarcastic was in regards of me inquiring about another male Albino Boa, 100% Het Snow.

http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/for...ead.php?t=67084

My intention was not to purchase the other male Albino. I was offering a breeding loan for my 2 female CB2003 Anery Boas 66% possible Het Snow.

The owner of the Albino 100% Het Snow was not interested in producing Snow Boas. He was selling his animal to fund another project.

I hope this clears the idea that I had $3,000. to buy another snake.

Luis.

 

[crotalusadamanteus]

Wow.... if he actually said that, why didn't he say it here??.... Neil

Hmmm.............That's not a bad question actually.


Rick

 

[mdc]

Luis,

How do you explain this. You told me on the phone that you already took the snake to the vet and you were just awaiting the results. You also sent me this email that proves you told me that.

"I have not heard from the Vet ...I will call tomorrow morning.

I will get off work at 8:00 PM AZ Time and I will let you know what I have the Vet found out so far...

Luis."

Also, why haven't you answered the question about you losing your job? You didn't tell me you lost your job until you had my albino in your possession and it was your turn to ship. Then all of a sudden you said you recently lost your job and couldn't afford to ship. If you didn't have a job since November, why did you enter this deal?


Now my question for the board is what necropsy results would I be responsible for. I mean if it was cancer or something I could see me being responsible for the animal. But if it was parasites or some sort of intestinal infection, wouldn't Luis be responsible since he had the animal for so long and refused to take it to the vet when it got sick? Your opinions are appreciated.

Matt Crabe

 

[Art Klass]

Now my question for the board is what necropsy results would I be responsible for. I mean if it was cancer or something I could see me being responsible for the animal. But if it was parasites or some sort of intestinal infection, wouldn't Luis be responsible since he had the animal for so long and refused to take it to the vet when it got sick? Your opinions are appreciated.

I think we are just going to have to see what happens. What if the results are inconclusive? We can "what if" this to death but it is only going to play out in one direction. Unfortunately we don't know what direction that is going to be. I personally don't have much faith in Luis' moral fiber. People either make the right choices or they don't. Luis has shown on which side of the fence he resides. Art Klass

 

[HerpHobbiest]

Originally Posted by Neil Gubitz
Wow.... if he actually said that, why didn't he say it here??....
Neil

Hmmm.............That's not a bad question actually.


Rick

Because I trust Rick more that the guy in AZ who lives 10 miles from me that offer to help.

That is why I consulted with Rick in private. Rick is coming to my House this weekend and I thought if he would help it would be a good idea. However, from our phone conversation I understud that Rick did not really wanted to get involved with the responsability. And I was not about to push the issue.

That guy who lives about 10 miles from me... is extremely difficult to get a hold of, He does not return phone calls for months and months... GOD knows what would happen if he gets this pair of Het Albino Balls. Personally I do not thrust him for this task.

Luis

 

[mdc]

I trust Richard Wilson completely. He is extremely well respected in this hobby. He offered to come to your house anytime that was good for you and ship them to me.

Luis, why do you continue to ignore certain questions? Is it because you don't have an answer for them because you got busted in a lie?

Matt Crabe

 

[Neil Gubitz]

Luis.... OK, fine, if you don't trust the guy that lives 10 miles from you, and Rick doesn't want to get involved (too bad), then why don't you just send the snakes to MATT??.... obviously, you can trust HIM.... You certainly trusted him to ship his albino FIRST??.... Then you pull this SCAM, and here you go side-stepping again.... Send MATT the snakes, and, when the necropsy comes back, and it turns out to be Matt's fault, I'm SURE he will return those Balls to you.... Why not try that?.... And I bet Matt would even PayPal Rick the shipping fees, so Rick (MIGHT) hand the funds to you so you can afford to ship them back to Matt....

Neil

 

[varnyard]

Luis, I will give you something to ponder. What will future buyers / potential customers think when they read this tread? Look at it through their eyes. You are being given a chance to do the right thing. Looks like there are a few people trying to help you make this right. This tread has been viewed 3,944 times. What do you think is in the viewers minds?

 

[HerpHobbiest]

Luis,

How do you explain this. You told me on the phone that you already took the snake to the vet and you were just awaiting the results. You also sent me this email that proves you told me that.

"I have not heard from the Vet ...I will call tomorrow morning.

I will get off work at 8:00 PM AZ Time and I will let you know what I have the Vet found out so far...

Luis."

Matt Crabe

Matt,

Because I was not just about to drop off a Snake with a Small Animal Clinic that sees a reptile once or twice a month. This guy is close to me and he is the best Vet within 30-40 miles radius.

I try to talk to him in person But after a few tries I decided to leave a message with his Vet Tech. I let het know the importance of accurate results and I ask het to have the Vet call me. Well he did not call me.

When I called him that morning on my first break at work, is when I was told that he would ship the snake to California and have a necropsy done there and that they would mail me the results.

I did not think this was the best option so I decided to get the snake to an experienced Reptile Vet. I called a few Vets Both in Phoenix and in Tucson, AZ. They recommended taking the snake to the University of Arizona. And that is where the snake is going.

I want to know accurate results. Not just for us to settle this deal but to learn and protect my collection. If I killed the Albino I want to know if my 8.5 foot long female Pastel 100% Het Albino is at risk and what kind of risk.

I do not see how your Albino would just die... It was well cared for while in my care. He was in a disinfected plastic Rubbermaid with 11" heat tape with a Proportional Thermostat. He was on News Print. He always had Water and a hide box.

I did nothing out of the ordinary with this snake that I have in my years of Breeding Burmese and Retics and now my years of breeding Boas. I have raised many of my breeders from babies without any health issues.

My pastel Female I purchase as a Yearling in 2001 from Rich Macias in Las Vegas Nevada. My Hypo 100% Het Sunglow I had since shortly after birth back in 2002. I have no health issues with them...

I honestly do not know what happen.

Also I do not want anyone to feel I am Holding The Ball Pythons Hostage!!! Or that I do not intend to ship when the time comes. When the Albino die and I said lets do a necropsy, You said: "Lets hold on on shipping on the Ball Pythons"

I know this has taking me much more time that it should have. and I am not going to try any excuses on that. But... ...I am NOT a lair !!! ...And I am NOT a thief !!!

Luis Taracena

 

[norsmis]

I know this has taking me much more time that it should have. and I am not going to try any excuses on that. But... ...I am NOT a lair !!! ...And I am NOT a thief !!!

Luis Taracena

Luis, I think the biggest reason Matt is so upset with you because it had to be posted on the BOI before you gave him any answers at all. Honestly, you are acting like my ex wife! Matt should not have to post here to get answers from you. I am sure if you would have given him answers when he asked or at least communicated with him at all this wouldn't even be on the BOI. I hope all of your answers you are giving here are honest and I cannot prove or disprove any of them but the point is, you did not communicate with Matt on these issues which makes you APPEAR to be a LIAR and a THIEF!

 

[HerpHobbiest]

Luis, I will give you something to ponder. What will future buyers / potential customers think when they read this tread? Look at it through their eyes. You are being given a chance to do the right thing. Looks like there are a few people trying to help you make this right. This tread has been viewed 3,944 times. What do you think is in the viewers minds?

Well that I do not know... I feel that since I started posting I have been open and Honest to anyones questions on this deal.

But what I know is that I have a waiting list for my 2006 F1 Salmon Hypo Boas. People want to send me money before they are even born. Money which I can not accept until the babies are born and are eating regularly.

This are babies from my 2005 litter.

 

[reptilebreeder]

I want to know accurate results. Not just for us to settle this deal but to learn and protect my collection. If I killed the Albino I want to know if my 8.5 foot long female Pastel 100% Het Albino is at risk and what kind of risk.

I'd say a good start in protecting your collection would be to actually quarantine new aquisitions, before tossing them in with another snake, to get them bred ASAP. I know you stated you did it for some days, but not long enough, obviously. Especially given it had nasty stool.

But what I know is that I have a waiting list for my 2006 F1 Salmon Hypo Boas. People want to send me money before they are even born. Money which I can not accept until the babies are born and are eating regularly.

Interesting, especially given insight into your quarantine criteria (or lack thereof), and new insight into this "deal".

 

[HerpHobbiest]

I'd say a good start in protecting your collection would be to actually quarantine new aquisitions, before tossing them in with another snake, to get them bred ASAP. I know you stated you did it for some days, but not long enough, obviously. Especially given it had nasty stool.

Interesting, especially given insight into your quarantine criteria (or lack thereof), and new insight into this "deal".

Attn, John Kellar

I think you are confused of maybe just misunderstanding the facts. Maybe you need to go back and re-read post #54

The snake appear to be healthy in every aspect, except for the fact that it was not eating. However during the breeding cycle it is completely normal for a snake to refuse food. This did not raise a red flag. I mean you are a reptile breeder you know that. Right?

The snake was housed alone from January 11 to Febuary 07. Maybe I sould have waited longer... Maybe until the 2006/2007 season. The snake was supposed to be healthy and the Albino did look good. No mites, no respiratory issues, no mouth rot.

I housed Matt's male Albino with my Salmon Hypo Het Sunglow and my female Pastel Boa for a period of 4-5 days to spike up the breeding activity of my Salmon Hypo Het Sunglow. Matt's male Albino was not used to breed my female Pastel. I would much rather have Pastel Sunglows than Pastel Albinos.

After I separated the Albino to leave the Salmon Hypo Het Sunglow to do his part. I offered food to Matt's Albino and he at on the night of Febuary 11. A few days later I got the very first stool which was small but very very runny.

Matt's Albino ate again on the night of Feb 21 ...And I found him dead on the night of Feb 26.

My Salmon Hypo Het Sunglow is eating like a champ, And he has normal stools. The Pastel Het Albino in the other hand is empty she has not eaten in months.

And that is all I have to say about that. LOL Luis

 

[Bill_Leverton]

To: Bobby Hill, Owner of Varnyard Herps INC.

I did read your post earlier this morning and I was acctually on my way to work. I am here now and have time to reply.

And you are right it was not 3 weeks it was more like 5 weeks.

I do not really have all the dates written down, and I have not yet look at the record of the phone conversations Matt and I have exchanged. But here is some info:

January 11
I got the Albino, The snake appears in good health and I housed it alone in a separate bedroom.

February 7 to 10
The Albino was housed with CB2002 1.0 Salmon Hypo 100% Het Sunglow and CB2000 0.1 Pastel 100% Het Albino

February 11
The Albino ate for the first time in my care. He ate a frozen-thaw large rat.

February 21
Second loose stool, cage was cleaned, disinfected with diluted Ammonia solution, rinsed. Snake was offered another frozen-thaw large rat and feed.

February 26
Snake is found dead at about 8:00PM and was refrigerated.

February 27
Snake was frozen. And has been frozen since

March 2
I contact my local Vet. Not a Reptile Vet, just the best Vet in 30-40 mile radius for necropsy info.

March 7
The Vet informed that snake must be shipped out to California for necropsy and that shipping is on me. I know a necropsy can be done here in AZ and maybe this Vet just does not have enough reptile information or contacts.

March 9, 10, and 14
I called the Better known Reptile Vets in Phoenix and Tucson. I was recommended to contact The University of Arizona.

March 15
I call UofA and they told me to keep the snake frozen until I can make it to Tucson. I spoke with the pathologist and he told me that even that the snake is frozen, there is ways to figure out the cause of death.

Tomorrow March 30
My sister is going to Tucson and she will drop off the frozen Albino.

As soon as the results are in I will post them...

Luis Taracena

Ok I wasn't going to even post on this But something stuck out and that is what is in the bold.... IMO what killed this snake was the fumes from the ammonia for some reason unless you rinse it very well and air it out the odor still remains,Exspecially in or on wood I'm only saying this for 2 reasons .....Reason #1 I see your snakes in "Wooden cage" and # 2 I use to house my pythons in wood and clean with diluted ammonia but the ammonia smell doesn't really go away unles you rinse it like 5 or 6 times and then air it out Like I said JMHO...

 

[Griz]

Ok I wasn't going to even post on this But something stuck out and that is what is in the bold.... IMO what killed this snake was the fumes from the ammonia for some reason unless you rinse it very well and air it out the odor still remains,Exspecially in or on wood I'm only saying this for 2 reasons .....Reason #1 I see your snakes in "Wooden cage" and # 2 I use to house my pythons in wood and clean with diluted ammonia but the ammonia smell doesn't really go away unles you rinse it like 5 or 6 times and then air it out Like I said JMHO...

The picture of the wooden cage is not Luis but Matt's. Luis is using tupperware. I thought the same thing until I looked further.

Griz

 

[Bill_Leverton]

My apologies should read that better Thanks Bob

 

[mdc]

Actually that pic was taken at Alex Smith's house when the albino was there on breeding loan during the 04/05 breeding season. He was always housed in a boaphile rack while in my care.

Luis, you say the albino was healthy when you got him and he only had a loose stool after you fed him. What could come out of this necropsy that would make it my fault? I can't guarantee him to be healthy for 6 weeks out of my care, when he was housed with other animals. Plus, you still haven't addressed the question about not taking him to the vet when you thought he was sick. That lack of care for the animal makes you at fault no matter what the results are as far as I'm concerned. Please address this issue.

I sent you a snake that arrived live and in good condition. You need to honor our agreement and do the same.

Matt Crabe

 

[jglass38]

Another one bites the dust. When will people learn that if you scam, you will get caught and your reputation will take the beating. Why would ANYONE risk it!? I have no sympathy for this guy and hope no one ever does a bit of business with him again. Matt, sorry for what you have been through!

 

[HerpHobbiest]

Luis, you say the albino was healthy when you got him and he only had a loose stool after you fed him. What could come out of this necropsy that would make it my fault? I can't guarantee him to be healthy for 6 weeks out of my care, when he was housed with other animals. Plus, you still haven't addressed the question about not taking him to the vet when you thought he was sick. That lack of care for the animal makes you at fault no matter what the results are as far as I'm concerned. Please address this issue.

I sent you a snake that arrived live and in good condition. You need to honor our agreement and do the same.

Matt Crabe

Matt,

Like I posted earlier,

Also I do not want anyone to feel I am Holding The Ball Pythons Hostage!!! Or that I do not intend to ship when the time comes. When the Albino die and I said lets do a necropsy, You said: "Lets hold on on shipping on the Ball Pythons"

The reason why you do not have The Balls Het Albino is because YOU said to hold on the shipping of the Ball Pythons until we get the results of the Necropsy and if it the snake die from a long term illness that you would stand 100% behind your animal.

That lack of care for the animal makes you at fault no matter what the results are as far as I'm concerned.

How can you feel that I owe you, no matter what the Necropsy Results say??? That is not standing behind your animal... What if Necropsy says long term liver problems? Or Cogenital deffects? Or Long term IBD? The truth is that we do not know why the snake appear to be fine and then just die. Figuring this out is the point of the Necropsy.

Well now we have 7 to 10 days of waiting...

The Snake is in Tucson at the University of Arizona
Departament of Veterinary Science and Microbiology
2831N Freeway
Tucson, AZ 85705-5021
Phone 520 621 2356
Case # 06-2003

Do not worry this guys are the best in Arizona. They will test Pathology, Microbiology, Toxicology, Chemestry and Serology.

Regards, Luis.

 

[HerpHobbiest]

I trust Richard Wilson completely. He is extremely well respected in this hobby. He offered to come to your house anytime that was good for you and ship them to me.

Luis, why do you continue to ignore certain questions? Is it because you don't have an answer for them because you got busted in a lie?

Matt Crabe

I was not talking about Richard Wilson. Richard Wilson lives in Mesa AZ a good 50-60 miles form here.

I was Refering to Michael D. Leonard, www.leonards-lair.com Post #22

if you could get Luis to get ahold of me, i could ship your snake for you!! I live about 10 miles from Luis.. I hope everything turns out OK!!! Good Luck and God Bless!!! Mike

As far as me avoiding your questions... Which questions dont you have an answer for?

Luis.