Madd reptiles inquiry

[thecobrakid]

not Wapner.....

The Honorable Jason Shephard (lol). Once this case hits 100+ replies it will be referred to my BOI Court docket for hearing/examining/slamming.

So Be It,

Herper Elect JS

 

[lucycricket]

Dead Tortoise

Responsability, an interesting word. I spent HOURS on the phone trying to track that tortoise down and notify UPS that it was indeed a live baby tortoise. I actually found a tortoise breeder who lives close to the airport it was stranded at and was waiting to go pick it up but UPS wouldn't release it because it WASN"T marked "live animal". We asked if he could just go open it, check to see if it was alive and repack it with warm packs butthe package was impossible to get to because they had made no special provisions because they DIDN"T know it was a live animal. As I said, I spent days trying to get to that tortoise so don't tell me I didn't take responsability. I have all correpondance with UPS saved and with the breeder willing to help. As I said, this has been hell.

 

[jglass38]

Just one more disgusting story of a breeder's inability to clearly mark the box and take care of the small details that could have insured a safe arrival. Cmon people. Could you please look past the dollar signs for a second and see that everytime you ship an animal, that you are responsible for its LIFE. Makes me f'n ill.

Jamie

 

[ms_terese]

The box was not marked "live" but was marked next day and "do not leave in cold" "do not leave outside" which is usually sufficient.

Nope, not sufficient. That one detail makes a world of difference.

I think you owe a full refund on this one, including shipping.

It sounds like the buyer did everything in her power to intervene and save that tortoise.

 

[jglass38]

Really, what does "do not leave outside" or "do not leave in the cold" mean to anyone? It isnt even a recognized phrase that is on any package ever sent! Lets see:

Fragile (often used but would not have worked alone in this case)
Live harmless reptile (ding ding ding! Spend a few cents and get some of these stickers. It may save a life! )
Live animal


I would expect this kind of ignorance from a regular guy on the street but not a veteran herp breeder.

Jamie

PS I just ordered a Hog Island Boa from NERD. She asked if we could hold off on shipping until next week because he just ate 2 days ago and the temperature is extremely cold there right now. That is caring!!

 

[lucycricket]

Dead Tortoise

Just to clarify what the box actually said. UPS informed me that it was put into a "container" which was technically not outside but they would have gone to further extremes had they known it was a live animal.

 

[jglass38]

There is no way from looking at that they would have known. Its sad really...

Jamie

 

[cobra6]

standard terms

This is an exact copy of another dealer's terms as on their website
1) Live arrival guarantee only on shipments sent airport to airport (air freight)
2) No live arrival for shipments that are delayed or mishandled by the carrier (airlines or FedEx)
3) No live arrival guarantee for shipments sent via door to door services such as FedEx
4) No live arrival guarantee on shipments sent to destinations below 40(f) degrees or above 89(f) degrees
5) No live arrival guarantee on amphibians at anytime
6) All claims must be called in and unacceptable animals returned within 24 hours of arrival at destination airport. If you are calling after hours or on weekends leave a message stating the exact nature of your claim. Please be sure to include your name, phone number, exact nature of the problem, exact number and species involved.
7) All returned orders will be charged a restocking fee.
8) Prices are subject to change without notice.
9) The purchaser agrees to pay all expenses, including legal expenses, court costs, and attorneys fees paid by the seller in endeavoring to collect these invoiced items. All amounts over 60 days shall be subject to a 2% monthly service charge.

if Lisa had purchased from this dealer instead of us she would be getting nothing. many dealers have the same terms. Ben Seigal also has on his site that there will be no cash refunds, only credit. Bottom line, delays by shipper are not our fault and are out of our control."Live tortoise" on the box would not have stopped a snowstorm from hitting kentucky and delaying the box several days. We have agreed to replace the tortoise and are trying to aquire a replacement for Lisa now..as stated before..(Also may I point out we offered to do this the first time lisa contacted us, before she turned this whole thing into a public mess.0much more than many other dealers would be doing in this situation. At this point it seems Lisa has nothing better to do(and she's obviously not the only one) than point fingers and continue to stirr things up. She says she doesn't expect to get a replacement. Why on earth would she say that when from the begining we told her we would send one?
Tim is fed up w/the bull and hates these stupid forums so I am putting this up.
Katya Benz
MADDREPTILES

 

[cthulhu77]

"Tim is fed up w/the bull and hates these stupid forums so I am putting this up.
Katya Benz"

Well, I am sure that with this attitude, and the way you have gone all out to help a customer, you should be getting a lot more business soon.
No, really.

You have to be kidding... any dealer I know would have refunded the money right away, and THEN offered to hold one of the new clutch for the client, if they so desired...payment upon delivery.
Pretty shabby treatment, in my opinion.
greg

 

[Najakaouthia]

I have known Tim for several years and I will assure you that what he speaks is the Truth. as far as the wrong sex on the animals I suppose that could happen but if you talked with him I am sure he would fix the deal.
Just my .02cents.
Justin

 

[jglass38]

I am with Greg on this one. This Tim guy should have offered the refund immediately. Poorly marked package and not knowing UPS's schedule is HIS fault as the shipper. Him and his girlfriend/wife coming on here and spewing the same crap over and over doesn't make it true. You build a successful business by taking care of your customers, not screwing them.

Peace and love...

Jamie

 

[The BoidSmith]

In the quote are UPS TOS for live/perishable items:

(j) UPS does not regularly provide service for packages containing live animals. (The term "animal" as used here refers to anything living, except plants.) UPS will only accept packages containing live animals for shipment within the United States on an exception basis. Transportation for packages containing live animals is limited, must be prearranged, and as with all other packages, will be provided only according to the terms and conditions contained in the UPS Tariff.

(k) UPS does not provide a protective service for the transportation of perishable commodities or of commodities requiring protection from heat or cold. Such commodities will be accepted for transportation solely at the shipper’s risk for any damage arising from the transportation. Shippers shall not file claims for, and UPS shall not be liable to shippers or any third parties for, any damage arising from the transportation of perishable commodities or commodities requiring protection from heat or cold, regardless of whether the package is delivered pursuant to an applicable UPS Service Guarantee or is delayed in transit. UPS reserves the right to dispose of any package in the UPS system containing a perishable commodity that, in UPS’s sole discretion, is deemed to be unsafe or unsanitary.

It is thus clear they only ship live animals on an “exceptional basis”. According to both points J and K, UPS can not be held responsible for delays in transit. The same argument used stating Lisa should have read Tim’s TOS, should apply to Tim, as he should be familiar with UPS TOS before shipping. If UPS does not guarantee safe arrival of perishable goods (or live animals for that matter) that responsibility becomes solely of the seller, particularly when the contents of the package were never disclosed.

In short, I also believe a full refund is in order. It is the seller that can stop the shipment at any time, not the buyer. It is thus the seller’s responsibility to assure safe arrival and, if an accident happens, refund the animal in full.

Regards

 

[Dennis Hultman]

I only said

Quote

I am new to this board and have not posted much but I am developing my opinions on different people regarding their honesty. I am very curious why you skipped over the complaint from Europe.

Peter Pastor has posted several times about not receiving payment from you. Why did you not address the situation?


Dennis Hultman

What You Said

Quote from Tim:

And lastly...not that it is ANYONE'S business on this public forum..but the european gentleman that is waiting for a response from me has not recieved one due to his involvement in another matter with USFWS and I have been advised by them not to contact/have further business w/him..

I am sorry for asking.

Quote from Tim:
.AGAIN..NOT THAT IT'S ANYONE'S BUSINESS ON A PUBLIC FORUM!

Tim,

I agree with you one hundred percent. It’s not my “business”
If it were, I would explain why I could not talk about something rather than harp at someone that asked a question.
OH it’s none of my business.

Quote from Tim:
I see that people on this forum do jump to conclusions about matters that they are both underinformed or misinformed on and quite frankly have no business in

Why are we misinformed??? Because you will not inform us. It is none of our business.

Quote from Tim:
I wish people would stop hounding me about it.

Two people asked a simple question. Hounding?

I am sorry if I was hounding with my first post.

I thought I asked a thoughtful question, because you came on the board and responded to the thread. When you did not respond to the other accusation I was curious.

Is that not the purpose of this board to ask questions and resolve issues?

Thank you for helping form my misinformed opinion.

Dennis Hultman

You owe Peter and will not pay.
Lisa deserves a full refund.

 

[cobra6]

I am posting since Tim doesn't have his account set up yet.
It's interesting how no one really said anything about the fact that our terms are the same as many other dealers. Anyway we do see the point in this forum, it is just many times abused by people and taken way too far. We are stating this for the LAST TIME we are replacing the tortoise w/another tortoise as we said we would. We are not issuing a cash refund as that is not part of our business policy in this situation, nore is it part of many live animal dealers' policy. This forum is here for what it is, but it does not make this a democratic situation where people who are not involved in the transaction have a say(yes you can voice your opinion, but that doesn't change things) we are completely covered in this situation by the terms on our website although many of you don't seem to be able to read/comprehend them. We will uphold our policy which is fair, Lisa paid for a tortoise and she will recieve a tortoise. We do take responsibility for a death in transit but not if there are delays, we are not pushing this off as something UPS should pay for and do understand their policy about shipping live animals, that is why we only guarentee live arrival on door to door shipments IF THERE ARE NO DELAYS! As for the other matter, those of you who do not understand what "not at liberty to discuss" means...this is it....WE CANNOT DISCUSS IT DUE TO ADVISE FROM USFWS AND OUR LAWYERS! And for those of you who do not believe that USFWS doesn't tell people not to have contact/conduct business with other individuals you need to wake up and smell the coffee! You say we owe someone when you've only heard one side, yes you have not heard our side because we are not at liberty to discuss it right now, but that still means you haven't heard it and therefore cannot form an honest opinion about it.
Katya Benz

 

[jglass38]

More useless blathering. As you've stated, you aren't going to do the right thing and give her a refund. Even though the mistake in not clearly marking the box and not being aware of UPS's schedule was yours. But, there is a bright side. This BOI is here for everyone to see and hopefully it tarnishes your reputation enough so that you lose plenty of sales. Brilliant thought process I think. Instead of giving her back, what, $200, lets screw ourselves and lose thousands in future potential business.

Enjoy!

Jamie

 

[cobra6]

Dennis

Dennis also Tim was a little harsh about the hounding thing, but certain people have pushed so far as to call repeatedly asking for info on this/other matters which we cannot discuss right now as they might affect current invesigations. The "hounding" remark wasnt really about you or anyone that asked on this forum. Again we know this is a forum to resolve issues/ask questions it's just that many subjects cannot be properly discussed/addressed via email/forums. Maybe once everyone is hooked up to live webcams and we can see each other's expressions and hand motions we will be able to converse better! Untill then I'm afraid everyone will at some time be guilty of misreading/typing in the wrong "tone" Again, sorry if Tim's/our tone in any of this was taken the wrong way. We do feel bad for the tortoise(it was actually one of our personal holdbacks, we in no way wanted it to die)we do feel bad for lisa's situation(that is why from the begining we said we would replace it) we feel bad that lisa doesn't believe that she's getting a replacement but hope that she will be happy and express that on this forum when she gets the replacement tort.
Katya Benz

 

[oldherper]

I am posting since Tim doesn't have his account set up yet.
It's interesting how no one really said anything about the fact that our terms are the same as many other dealers. Anyway we do see the point in this forum, it is just many times abused by people and taken way too far. We are stating this for the LAST TIME we are replacing the tortoise w/another tortoise as we said we would. We are not issuing a cash refund as that is not part of our business policy in this situation, nore is it part of many live animal dealers' policy. This forum is here for what it is, but it does not make this a democratic situation where people who are not involved in the transaction have a say(yes you can voice your opinion, but that doesn't change things) we are completely covered in this situation by the terms on our website although many of you don't seem to be able to read/comprehend them. We will uphold our policy which is fair, Lisa paid for a tortoise and she will recieve a tortoise. We do take responsibility for a death in transit but not if there are delays, we are not pushing this off as something UPS should pay for and do understand their policy about shipping live animals, that is why we only guarentee live arrival on door to door shipments IF THERE ARE NO DELAYS! As for the other matter, those of you who do not understand what "not at liberty to discuss" means...this is it....WE CANNOT DISCUSS IT DUE TO ADVISE FROM USFWS AND OUR LAWYERS! And for those of you who do not believe that USFWS doesn't tell people not to have contact/conduct business with other individuals you need to wake up and smell the coffee! You say we owe someone when you've only heard one side, yes you have not heard our side because we are not at liberty to discuss it right now, but that still means you haven't heard it and therefore cannot form an honest opinion about it.
Katya Benz

I think that replacing the tortoise with one of the same species, locale, and sex is a fair settlement, assuming you have one on hand right now to replace it with. I do not think it would be fair to expect her to wait for you to produce more babies.

 

[Dennis Hultman]

I am posting since Tim doesn't have his account set up yet.
It's interesting how no one really said anything about the fact that our terms are the same as many other dealers. Anyway we do see the point in this forum, it is just many times abused by people and taken way too far. We are stating this for the LAST TIME we are replacing the tortoise w/another tortoise as we said we would. We are not issuing a cash refund as that is not part of our business policy in this situation, nore is it part of many live animal dealers' policy. This forum is here for what it is, but it does not make this a democratic situation where people who are not involved in the transaction have a say(yes you can voice your opinion, but that doesn't change things) we are completely covered in this situation by the terms on our website although many of you don't seem to be able to read/comprehend them. We will uphold our policy which is fair, Lisa paid for a tortoise and she will recieve a tortoise. We do take responsibility for a death in transit but not if there are delays, we are not pushing this off as something UPS should pay for and do understand their policy about shipping live animals, that is why we only guarentee live arrival on door to door shipments IF THERE ARE NO DELAYS! As for the other matter, those of you who do not understand what "not at liberty to discuss" means...this is it....WE CANNOT DISCUSS IT DUE TO ADVISE FROM USFWS AND OUR LAWYERS! And for those of you who do not believe that USFWS doesn't tell people not to have contact/conduct business with other individuals you need to wake up and smell the coffee! You say we owe someone when you've only heard one side, yes you have not heard our side because we are not at liberty to discuss it right now, but that still means you haven't heard it and therefore cannot form an honest opinion about it.
Katya Benz

Now don't you think your qoute above is much nicer than saying I hate this forum and it is nobody's business.

I do.

Dennis Hultman

 

[cobra6]

oldherper

Waiting till ours hatched was an offer we put out there for her, but since her obvious distaste for it we have been actively searching our sources for another tort of equal quality, same spp, and size, sex is not poss at only 2"though. We will find one promptly as we assured her, but after all this fiasco we are def. going to wait at least untill we have a couple warm days well w/in the temps on our terms page b/f shipping. We feel that this is fair to Lisa and really don't see why anyone else wouldn't think so..from the begining this has been our plan.
Katya Benz

 

[Dennis Hultman]

I missed the first post titled Dennis

Sorry

Dennis hultman