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Madd reptiles inquiry

USFWS are serious folks, and if you and your girl friend have been spoken to by them, it should be of great concern to both of you for the violation of ups's tos and the lacey act by not properly addressing that package. USFWS monitor many web sights looking for this kind of behavior and they do crack down on people.

I did go to your sight and read your "terms" and I'm curious, what were the day and night time high and low temps on Oklahoma?? I live in so cal and it has not been to warm here, 48 degrees would be violating your own tos, would it not??

We as the breeders and shipper's need to take responsibilty and treat every buyer inexperienced or not with the common courtesy of properly identifying our shipments. I read how you feel about venomoids, did'nt that little tortoise diserve "live harmless tortoise" marked on it's box??
 
Katya,

I honesty think you or anyone has the right to hold to their terms. I think replacing the animal personally is fair to Lisa. Lisa does not think so which is the problem.

I would just look at the bigger picture.

I would personally look at Mad Reptiles and say

Wow, Tim and Katya are great people! They did not have to refund Lisa but they did. That’s the kind of people I would want to do business with.

All the other issues with the way the package was labeled and shipping would be a separate matter the customer issue should come first.

That is how I would look at it.

I always like to think the best of people.

If you say you can't talk about the other issue I will take your word for it because I have no reason not to believe you.

I agree it is hard to see tone in the written word.


Thank You

Dennis Hultman
 
Daed Tortoise

Tim did not offer to replace the tortoise in the beginning. He offered a $175.00 "credit" towards a more expensive animal and informed me that he was being generous because it was Christmas. The alternative was to wait for one of his hatchlings. NOW he is offering a replacement animal when he can find one. One of the reasons I bought this animal was because it had been one of his personal holdbacks. Therefore, I knew he had it long enough to be fairly certain of it's health. He is now asking me to accept an animal from an unknown source and accept whatever he "finds". He has been sarcastic and not very pleasant to deal with. Yes, I am concerned about this offer. He does not have a Star tortoise available to replace the dead one. Had he handled this whole thing with some dignity and respect, it never would have gone to this forum.
 
Of course this is just an opinion

We will uphold our policy which is fair, Lisa paid for a tortoise and she will recieve a tortoise.
Click to expand...

And Lisa's words:

NOW he is offering a replacement animal when he can find one. One of the reasons I bought this animal was because it had been one of his personal holdbacks. Therefore, I knew he had it long enough to be fairly certain of it's health. He is now asking me to accept an animal from an unknown source and accept whatever he "finds".
Click to expand...

In my opinion Lisa didn't pay for a totoise but for that particular tortoise. If someone decides on the purchase of an animal it's because he/she likes his markings, disposition, etc. That's the animal we are buying, not a replacement that will eventually be found. This is not like purchasing a same nrand appliance, each animal has distinct characteristics. That's the reason why pictures are posted and requested when selling animals on-line. One might ask the buyer if he/she will settle for a replacement but it doesn't seem fair to try to impose it on them.

Just my opinion.
 
Alien7 said:
Quote from Tim:

And lastly...not that it is ANYONE'S business on this public forum..but the european gentleman that is waiting for a response from me has not recieved one due to his involvement in another matter with USFWS and I have been advised by them not to contact/have further business w/him..

It looks I missed this part sooner...
I am involved in another matter with USFWS? In which? Only shipment with snakes I sent to USA was that for you! So in which another matter I can be involved?
Also, if it would be so....what it has to do with fact, that you didn`t pay me the balance for shipment you received from me? I am not asking you for next deal, don`t don`t need to even answer my e-mails etc. Only what I want from you is send me the balance for animals you got from me! So please, stop to talk "dream stories" and cover what you have to... You know that`s not true what you are telling about me...

Peter
Click to expand...
 
cobra6 said:
Waiting till ours hatched was an offer we put out there for her, but since her obvious distaste for it we have been actively searching our sources for another tort of equal quality, same spp, and size, sex is not poss at only 2"though. We will find one promptly as we assured her, but after all this fiasco we are def. going to wait at least untill we have a couple warm days well w/in the temps on our terms page b/f shipping. We feel that this is fair to Lisa and really don't see why anyone else wouldn't think so..from the begining this has been our plan.
Katya Benz
Click to expand...

That sounds like a reasonable resolution to me. If that was your plan from the beginning, somehow it got lost or buried in translation. There should be plenty of baby Star Tortoises around. I don't know the locale of the one that you sold her, and there is considerable difference in value between the locale types. There are Sri Lankan, Indian, and Burmese (expensive) locales for sale on KS.com classifieds now.
 
laura/alvaro

Our terms do not state that we will not ship below 50F just that we will not guarentee live arrival, so no we did not violate our own TOS.
this is the first email Tim sent to Lisa when she said the tort was dead, note:he did put in that he would see if he could get another tort b/f spring
after this email Lisa replied very rudely and with a threatening tone saying she would sue us...then Tim replied he would replace the tort before spring and for Lisa not to get so upset/overreact, but we're obviously dealing with a woman that loves attention and drama
"Lisa,
I am very sorry to hear that.
I do have live arrival guarentee but this does not
include delays due to weather/or mistakes by
shipper(UPS in this case)
my terms state this on my website
also if you can I do need a picture verifiying the
tortoise is dead, this is just for my records
I called ups and they said they would not honor the
next day guarentee since it was the week of
Christmas(the first time I've ever heard of this!)
I'm very upset about the whole thing with them
what I will do since I feel very bad about this
happening around Christmas,
A. I'll give you a credit with me for $175.00. The
next time you see something I have that you would
like, you can use the credit however you wish.
B. I will have more cb baby stars around spring(eggs
incubating now) and may get some from a friend of mine
sooner, when I have some more baby stars available, if
you want to wait untill then, I will give you one for
your $175 credit
I hope this makes this situation a little better and I
hope you have a good new year
thank you
Tim MADDREPTILES
www.maddreptiles.com"
ALVARO
Lisa did buy A tortoise, it was a holdback but she never saw a picture of that tort, Tim sent a pic of a tort that looked similar and Lisa WAS aware that it was not a pic of the actual tort. And again many dealers use general pics and the pic you look at may not be of the actual animal unless it's noted that way. So she did buy "A" tortoise, yes a tort of high quality and that is what she will get in replacement.
Katya Benz
 
Yes, Lisa bought an Indian locale, actually just for info, the Indian and Sri Lanka locales are just diff locale of same spp(elegans) but the Burmese Star is actually a diff spp. not just diff locale.
Katya Benz
 
cobra6 said:
Yes, Lisa bought an Indian locale, actually just for info, the Indian and Sri Lanka locales are just diff locale of same spp(elegans) but the Burmese Star is actually a diff spp. not just diff locale.
Katya Benz
Click to expand...

Yep, I understand that. But it was never stated in here (that I saw) which spp or locale was involved.
 
business practices

Alien7 wrote:"I would just look at the bigger picture. "

Good call...even though you may think that you are sticking to your terms, Tim, the terms are somewhat dubious to begin with...and as far as saying, "other businesses do the same thing", that isn't that great of a defense...there a lot of businesses failing too !!

A good business would have offered to refund the money upon proof of death, which has been amply provided by the buyer, Lucy. She probably would have bought more stock from you in the future...I think you can kiss that goodbye now, though.

Every client has the right to dispute a charge, and with your poor shipping practices, you are coming off being the "bad guy" here.

Sorry, just calling it as I see it.
greg
 
cthulhu77 said:
Alien7 wrote:"I would just look at the bigger picture. "

Good call...even though you may think that you are sticking to your terms, Tim, the terms are somewhat dubious to begin with...and as far as saying, "other businesses do the same thing", that isn't that great of a defense...there a lot of businesses failing too !!

A good business would have offered to refund the money upon proof of death, which has been amply provided by the buyer, Lucy. She probably would have bought more stock from you in the future...I think you can kiss that goodbye now, though.

Every client has the right to dispute a charge, and with your poor shipping practices, you are coming off being the "bad guy" here.

Sorry, just calling it as I see it.
greg
Click to expand...

Tim seems to me to be basically a good guy, but with some bad policies and misguided practices. I'm confident that he will do what is necessary to make things right with Lisa.

I can't comment at all on the other deal with the European seller. I don't think there is enough information available to us to make any sort of judgment calls on that one, it is sort of one's word against the other's right now.

I do hope that Tim will take this opportunity to re-evaluate his policies and tighten up on his shipping and labeling practices. Customer satisfaction is the cornerstone to a successful business. If you enter into a deal with policies and an attitude that reflect that you EXPECT a bad deal, then that is likely what you'll end up with. One satisfied customer will tell one or two people about his/her experiences with you. One dissatisfied customer will tell, on average, 14 people. Once you lose a customer, you will never get them back. That's just the way it works. There is not an unlimited supply of customers out there, so protecting your reputation and doing your best to make sure every customer is happy goes a long way toward the longevity of a business.
 
oldherper said:
I can't comment at all on the other deal with the European seller. I don't think there is enough information available to us to make any sort of judgment calls on that one, it is sort of one's word against the other's right now.

What proof do you need? Copy of invoice? Copy of AWB? Copy of Western Union receipt by which I got prepayment? Copy of custom papers which shows that shipment was leggally declared?
As I said, I have everything available. I didn`t decide one day that I will try to get some money from Tim...you can be sure.

Peter
Click to expand...
 
Dead Tortoise

I have bought Star tortoises over the net before and have had a few bad experiences. That is why I chose to speak with Tim and not just purchase the animal over the computer. He sent me the pic and quaranteed that this animal looked exactly like the one he was selling and was in fact, from the same clutch. It was a beautiful animal. I also specifically asked him who the breeder was. He assured me that this was one of his "personal" tortoises and had been doing very well. I asked him about his quarantee on live delivery and he said "yes". I thought talking to him was safer than just reading and buying. I asked him all pertinant questions, obviously some people's word
doesn't amount to much. I am tired of playing games and am now moving into legal steps. This is just not right. If he had another Star with the same background I would gladly accept it but quite honestly, I do not wish to do business with him at all at this point.
 
lie

I was right next to tim when he spoke w/lisa on the phone and Tim said the tort in the pic was very similar to the one for sale..not "exactly" as you claim.
Also Tim never said that we bred the tort, he only said that he got both torts at the same time from the same person, nothing about that they were clutchmates;
Katya Benz
 
For Peter

Peter,

Please post all necessary documents of your transaction in this export. It will clear up the "he said/he said" issues. Anything you have to say verifying your claims will give weight to the argument. After you post your evidence...let's see if they still do not wish to comment.

Thanks,

JS
 
reason

Just another thing to add..lisa has gone further than just saying we had a bad bus. deal w/her, she has called Tim a liar and made untrue references about the way"we do business" another reason why we are replacing the tort instead of a refund is to prove to Lisa/everyone that we do conduct quality business and we are sure that Lisa will love the tort we provide to her. She will be eating her own words eventually
Katya Benz
 
Jason

Jason,
It's obvious from your history you like to stir things up! lol Nothing personal against you...you obviously can't understand so I'll make it a little clearer...both Tim and I have SIGNED legal docs and statements that make it legally impossible for us to comment about this/other relevant matters no matter what the circumstance unless we are in front of a judge.
Anyway...isn't there a group of little old gossiping ladies who need you somewhere in your neighborhood? It seems you would be well liked in a group like that
Katya Benz
 
Lisa did buy A tortoise, it was a holdback but she never saw a picture of that tort, Tim sent a pic of a tort that looked similar and Lisa WAS aware that it was not a pic of the actual tort.
Click to expand...

OK, I follow you, no pictures of the animal were provided. But if I understood correctly Lisa wanted that Tim's personal holdback, not any tortoise from a tub. She wanted to ensure an animal that was well adapted and Tim offered his animal. Now, do you have an animal from that same group/clutch to replace it with?

Thanks.
 
Cobra 6

I don't think anyone is trying to "stir things up" as you stated. We are simply trying to get to the root of the matter. If you don't answer a question, it will be re-asked. Period.
Your sales tools leave a lot to be desired, and perhaps a little bit of understanding of the client's needs might be a good area for you to get some education in.
I fail to see how "replacing" a tortoise with another is "satisfactory" at all...that decision should be left up to the purchaser, not you (the selling party).

This whole sidematter of the USFWS is also disturbing...if you had to sign a NDA, why are you still doing business without notifying people of it? And, as brought up before, what about the illegal shipping? Still no answer...hmmm.

"No one's business"???? It seems that you have made it everyone who buys from you to be kept in the dark...not very fair to me ! This kind of "cloak and dagger" bs is ridiculous.A buyer should have a fair idea of who they are buying from at the time of purchase, not told this whole story later on...
I feel very bad for Lucy in this matter, and can't understand Tim's (through his partner's mouth) reactions to the whole kaboodle...

greg
 
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