Bobby Douglass
Active member
I hope you get a cage that's in better shape soon. If all his melamine cages have burn marks on them he needs new equipment. I've made a few and have never burned one before.
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Bad Guy Mark/BoaMaster Cages
- Thread starter Skeetzy
- Start date
aSnakeLovinBabe
The Serpentine Queen
I read somewhere on here, and I can't remember where, that the black edges of the wood are due to the pieces being cut with a laser. I do not know much about laser cutting, or if that's normal, or true, I am just relaying what I read. I have four Boamaster racks that I purchased at the Hamburg show years ago. I love them, they are REALLY heavy but they are very solid and well built racks. I will take the heaviness for the sturdiness they come with. They hold heat like no other. The edges of my racks are also black, and I thought that was a normal part of them. When they first came there was some black smudges from the edges, from being touched, but it wiped clean with nothing more than a damp paper towel. Personally it doesn't bother me. For the price I paid, I was extremely happy and still am with my racks.
What I have always liked about Mark is that he will always take the time and actually talk with you, even if you are just window shopping. He actually spent a good 20-30 minutes of his time at a recent show to talk to me about breeding your own rodents and gave me a ton of good info and pointers. I think that Mark will correct this issue for you, even if you did post a thread before giving him the time to make it right. When you sell a ton of product to a ton of people, you are bound to have incidents. And those few dissatisfied people will talk much more than the happy customers. Hence why so many will say that Mark has a "bad" reputation. But I really do not believe he does. If it was truly bad, he wouldn't be selling so many products.
Being a seller of items where my business is dealt with primarily online, as a customer I always know that bad things sometimes happen and I always give someone time to correct any issues before slamming down the hammer. You say if you get a good cage out of this, you will be a happy customer, but you have already posted a big red X, a permanent one. So even after you are a happy customer, there is no recourse for Mark to have the label of this thread changed. You simply can't expect a seller to get everything right the first time, 100% of time. Problems can and will happen, and the fact that a problem happened shouldn't bring judgement... it's how it's handled. And from the looks of things, a resolution was already in the works. You may be a firm believer in getting things right the first time around, but have you always, 100% of the time, your whole life, always handle things properly without error on the first go? Be in business long enough in any industry, and you WILL mess up occasionally. We're only human.
What I have always liked about Mark is that he will always take the time and actually talk with you, even if you are just window shopping. He actually spent a good 20-30 minutes of his time at a recent show to talk to me about breeding your own rodents and gave me a ton of good info and pointers. I think that Mark will correct this issue for you, even if you did post a thread before giving him the time to make it right. When you sell a ton of product to a ton of people, you are bound to have incidents. And those few dissatisfied people will talk much more than the happy customers. Hence why so many will say that Mark has a "bad" reputation. But I really do not believe he does. If it was truly bad, he wouldn't be selling so many products.
Being a seller of items where my business is dealt with primarily online, as a customer I always know that bad things sometimes happen and I always give someone time to correct any issues before slamming down the hammer. You say if you get a good cage out of this, you will be a happy customer, but you have already posted a big red X, a permanent one. So even after you are a happy customer, there is no recourse for Mark to have the label of this thread changed. You simply can't expect a seller to get everything right the first time, 100% of time. Problems can and will happen, and the fact that a problem happened shouldn't bring judgement... it's how it's handled. And from the looks of things, a resolution was already in the works. You may be a firm believer in getting things right the first time around, but have you always, 100% of the time, your whole life, always handle things properly without error on the first go? Be in business long enough in any industry, and you WILL mess up occasionally. We're only human.
Skeetzy
New member
Human error, and a business error do not go hand in hand. It's called double checking your work. I used to ship 10-15 orders a day, small tiny paintball gun parts. You're talking oring kits consisting of anywhere from 20-30 different size orings, springs that all look the same, etc. I can honestly say I never messed an order up, even during the busiest days. I had to run a retail shop, while packing all these orders, dealing with the phone ringing, customers in the store asking questions and just about anything you can imagine working retail. It's called double checking your orders before you let them ship. For the extra 5 minutes you'll spend checking each order, saves you the hassle of overnighting a product a few days later when you have an angry customer calling complaining. I now work as a computer repair technician, and have to deal with customers who barely know how to turn them on. Today for example, an old couple call saying that we broke their Facebook. In reality, the emails from Facebook they were receiving about someone posting pictures, were leading to broken URL's where the pictures no longer existed. We had them bring the system in right away, and I helped fix their problem as soon as they walked in the door. I didn't have them leave the system to be put back into the queue of our work bench, and I didn't make them wait any longer. EVEN THOUGH the problem was not something we caused or had anything to do with. That's how I view customer service, and that is why every job I've had, I've created regular customers who come back with a smile on their face every time. Yes sometimes things happen out of your control, but the way you handle those issues speaks for how well you respect your customers.
That's my other quip about this entire scenario. I'm waiting an extra week for him to ship the product again, after already waiting 3 weeks. I would have been fired from every job I've worked if I waited to handle a customers order that long. Now if he explained in an email that there was going to be a delay originally, that would've eliminated that problem. Or after saying quote for quote "withini a couple of days i should get it out", that it was going to be an extra few days, I could have understood. But no, a week after getting that email, I asked if it shipped, and was told "its being worked on now". Then, a week later, I ask once again if it shipped, and that's when I got the "its leavin tommorrow".
You say he will always take the time to talk with you. Those responses are copy and paste from his email, and I can screenshot if need be. I'm sorry, but that's a message I would expect from my little sister through a text message. NOT a business owner talking with a customer, who's already paid for a product. When I called him, my call was sent to voicemail after 2 rings, which was full and I couldn't leave a message. I called him back 5 minutes later, and was on the phone for 1 minute and 12 seconds, which is including the 4 rings I sat through till he answered, so what 30-40 seconds? That doesn't sound like someone who's willing to take the time to talk with you. More like a used cars salesman who know's he's been caught for doing shady business.
Yes he's working with me to fix the problem, and yes he is handling the problem somewhat properly. But the fact I had to wait 3 weeks to receive an incomplete, damaged order, and have to wait another week and a half to hopefully receive a complete, undamaged order, is not okay. Especially with the lack of communication.
Maybe I just hold my customer service standards too high, but I believe in treat others the way you want to be treated. I would never treat any of my customers, even when the ones that don't believe a word you say and are screaming at you over things out of your control, like how my situation is going with BoaMaster. The gentleman from the old couple this morning originally called saying that we had no idea how to work on computers, that he was extremely upset, and that we were crooks. In reality, they didn't understand the message Facebook was displaying to them, which is not anything we deal with when fixing these computers. I fixed the problem for him anyways, and he left the store thanking us for doing a good job and correcting his issue. I wish I could say I was doing the same with this.
That's my other quip about this entire scenario. I'm waiting an extra week for him to ship the product again, after already waiting 3 weeks. I would have been fired from every job I've worked if I waited to handle a customers order that long. Now if he explained in an email that there was going to be a delay originally, that would've eliminated that problem. Or after saying quote for quote "withini a couple of days i should get it out", that it was going to be an extra few days, I could have understood. But no, a week after getting that email, I asked if it shipped, and was told "its being worked on now". Then, a week later, I ask once again if it shipped, and that's when I got the "its leavin tommorrow".
You say he will always take the time to talk with you. Those responses are copy and paste from his email, and I can screenshot if need be. I'm sorry, but that's a message I would expect from my little sister through a text message. NOT a business owner talking with a customer, who's already paid for a product. When I called him, my call was sent to voicemail after 2 rings, which was full and I couldn't leave a message. I called him back 5 minutes later, and was on the phone for 1 minute and 12 seconds, which is including the 4 rings I sat through till he answered, so what 30-40 seconds? That doesn't sound like someone who's willing to take the time to talk with you. More like a used cars salesman who know's he's been caught for doing shady business.
Yes he's working with me to fix the problem, and yes he is handling the problem somewhat properly. But the fact I had to wait 3 weeks to receive an incomplete, damaged order, and have to wait another week and a half to hopefully receive a complete, undamaged order, is not okay. Especially with the lack of communication.
Maybe I just hold my customer service standards too high, but I believe in treat others the way you want to be treated. I would never treat any of my customers, even when the ones that don't believe a word you say and are screaming at you over things out of your control, like how my situation is going with BoaMaster. The gentleman from the old couple this morning originally called saying that we had no idea how to work on computers, that he was extremely upset, and that we were crooks. In reality, they didn't understand the message Facebook was displaying to them, which is not anything we deal with when fixing these computers. I fixed the problem for him anyways, and he left the store thanking us for doing a good job and correcting his issue. I wish I could say I was doing the same with this.
Taking Up Serpents
Serpent Handler
The burns are from where it is cut with a laser. Technically every edge is burned. The spot you mention looks like that is where the laser came full circle and burned a bit long to ensure the cut. Often times it can be wiped clean.
The dust or residue is from being produced in the shop. Yo do have to clean them before assembling (wiping down after put together would be a pain). But even new cages should be cleaned and disinfected before use.
I'm not trying to invalidate or discredit your claims nor make them appear to be mole hills. They are legitimate and should be addressed. No screws for one is a duh-huh. Maybe Mark needs to crack the whip over there. haha
I have seen Mark's shop and own cages and racks from him. Even if he said something about my momma I can't deny he has good cages for a good price. The longer they last depends on how well you take care of them. With all that said I hope you rest easier knowing why the burn occurred and where the dust came from. I'm sure he will get you squared away. But please do be a bit less hasty with the bad guy tags if the subject has made arrangements to rectify the situation.
The dust or residue is from being produced in the shop. Yo do have to clean them before assembling (wiping down after put together would be a pain). But even new cages should be cleaned and disinfected before use.
I'm not trying to invalidate or discredit your claims nor make them appear to be mole hills. They are legitimate and should be addressed. No screws for one is a duh-huh. Maybe Mark needs to crack the whip over there. haha
I have seen Mark's shop and own cages and racks from him. Even if he said something about my momma I can't deny he has good cages for a good price. The longer they last depends on how well you take care of them. With all that said I hope you rest easier knowing why the burn occurred and where the dust came from. I'm sure he will get you squared away. But please do be a bit less hasty with the bad guy tags if the subject has made arrangements to rectify the situation.
Magic
New member
Oftentimes you need to match your personality as a buyer up with a corresponding personality of a seller.
If you are highly detail oriented, and meticulous (which sounds like you are in the business aspect) then chances are you'd appreciate a seller who mirrors that.
Some sellers aren't. Plain and simple.
There are sellers who charge less for things because 99 times out of 100 you're going to find shop dust, or heck even cat hair, inside the package.
IMHO the top tier sellers are hugely above reproach in all they do. You're not going to find a recycled ugly box used to ship, you're going to find brand new. But you pay for that brand new. You also eventually pay for overnight shipping of any accidental misplaced parts because the overhead always makes its way into the asking price.
It would have been one thing if Boamaster refused to try and make you happy, but he didn't. It sounds like he IS. However, just because he isn't running his business the way you'd like to run yours, doesn't necessitate a "bad guy" thread. He hasn't left you hanging. Does he have poor quality work? Idk, I don't use Boamaster. Is he a "bad guy"? I don't think he's earned that.
If you are highly detail oriented, and meticulous (which sounds like you are in the business aspect) then chances are you'd appreciate a seller who mirrors that.
Some sellers aren't. Plain and simple.
There are sellers who charge less for things because 99 times out of 100 you're going to find shop dust, or heck even cat hair, inside the package.
IMHO the top tier sellers are hugely above reproach in all they do. You're not going to find a recycled ugly box used to ship, you're going to find brand new. But you pay for that brand new. You also eventually pay for overnight shipping of any accidental misplaced parts because the overhead always makes its way into the asking price.
It would have been one thing if Boamaster refused to try and make you happy, but he didn't. It sounds like he IS. However, just because he isn't running his business the way you'd like to run yours, doesn't necessitate a "bad guy" thread. He hasn't left you hanging. Does he have poor quality work? Idk, I don't use Boamaster. Is he a "bad guy"? I don't think he's earned that.
boamaster
New member
Sir I shipped your product all pieces and parts complete.
All my cages are laser made,they may have smoke on it,
Simply wipes off.
Ups destroyed your shipment and possibly lost parts.
I didn't question your side and I'm replacing this without filing a claim!
Out of my pocket
So you can receive your cage ASAP.
I told you I would take care of it.
I don't see your reason for posting this response.
We are extremely busy so it took a little extra time,
That's my only fault.
All my cages are laser made,they may have smoke on it,
Simply wipes off.
Ups destroyed your shipment and possibly lost parts.
I didn't question your side and I'm replacing this without filing a claim!
Out of my pocket
So you can receive your cage ASAP.
I told you I would take care of it.
I don't see your reason for posting this response.
We are extremely busy so it took a little extra time,
That's my only fault.
pitlover
New member
I have read all these posts and I can say that i have bought cages from just about all the "big" guys, AP, Boaphile, Herpcages, Vision, PVC and repti-racks and of course Boa Master. Now I have had good luck with just about all of them. But Mark has made me custom cages always taken my calls, explained things to me and been a man of his word from the start to the finish of a cage. His Melamine cages are going to have those marks on them from cutting but they are for reptiles for heavens sake not the crown jewels...... Wipe them down and put the dang reptile in the thing so it can pee in it and make it their own. Mark can't promise UPS won't cause damage he can only put it in the box and hope for the best just like all the others. He will fix your problem and he will treat you with respect and that is a RARE thing anymore. Mark is one of the good guys in the herp community making great cages and racks for really good prices. I hope you update this post and create a good guy thread as well as Mark deserves that!
Best of luck to you
Best of luck to you
dmontgo1
Member
Let me start off by saying, Mark is great guy that runs an extremely honest business and is the kind of person we in the reptile community all need to support!! A few years ago I ordered several 8' cages from Boamaster and through no fault of his own they were damaged by the freight company. Mark went out of his way to make things right and to make sure I was satisfied with my purchase, he did a great job. I would not hesitate to purchase from them again and neither should anyone else, outstanding cages, great prices and extremely honest people to do business, support these guys!!
RichsBallPythons
Well-known member
The burns and smell is normal. Which ALL wipes away and smell dissipates in few days when aired out.
The package and wood being broke is on UPS. They man handled that package as wtih cages shipped flat dont need padding. Especially when they weigh 50-100+lbs.
This thread was soo not required one bit as the Shipper is to blame.
The package and wood being broke is on UPS. They man handled that package as wtih cages shipped flat dont need padding. Especially when they weigh 50-100+lbs.
This thread was soo not required one bit as the Shipper is to blame.
Focal
New member
For the record, not all of these burn marks just wipe off as I have been trying for years. Since when does burned material just disappear when sprayed with a cleaning agent. There is dust that wipes off, but burned melamine is burned melamine. I will be glad to post many, many pictures of this if needed.
RichsBallPythons
Well-known member
Post them all ya want, Ive had 11 of his 4x2 cages and every burn mark on the White laminated sides wiped off.
Moorer_robert
Robert Moorer Reptiles
I have bought a incubator from mark and yes his customer service is a little slow but he does answer and my incubator was sent with no shelves so I contacted mark and he fixed it and sent them out right away aside from a little slow customer service he is a good guy so i do believe if he says he will fix it he will just my little experience (no melamine tho sorry)
antonio gonzalez
New member
I've bought several large melamine cages off of Mark.The prices can't be beat and I have never had an issue getting a phone call or e mail returned.I would not hesitate to buy from Mark again..
Focal
New member
I don't disbelieve you at all, Rich. After several "it just wipes off," I felt the need to state not all of it does. I don't doubt a wide variety of results on this quality control roller coaster. If you look at the third pic from the OP, you can actually see the melamine has been burned so bad, the topography has actually changed.
Trust me, it's very embarrassing when people come over and see these smoke burns at the top of the vents and ask, "do you smoke a lot in here?" or "where these cages in a room that caught on fire?" I have scrubbed and scrubbed with no results so I do feel for the OP on that item.
I don't think Mark is a bad guy, but I hope by him reading this, he will fix this issue. At first I thought every melamine cage had this burning, but after reading these replies, Mark has a MAJOR quality control issue that's riding on the customers back. There is no reason some of these cages are badly burned and some are not. This is also a problem that has been around a long time and does not appear to have gone away.
suzuki4life
Member
I think its crappy for a seller to blame a shipper for "man handling" boxes. It is the seller's responsibilty to properly pack items for shipment. Protection of the corners should at very least be given with items containing brittle surfaces such as melamine. If a shipper has such history, why is the seller using them? Why is the seller not taking precautions to guarantee the safety of his product? I have also seen plenty of boamaster cages with burns that didn't wipe off.
Shipping the cage flat means nothing! Proper packaging goes a long way! 
dogshead3
New member
I spent 1200 on a 10 tub rack from boa master. An amazing amount of BS with constantly changing excuses. He kept playing games to increase the price by 150.00. He finally added on at the end by lying about how much the COD shipping was.The rack weighed 550 pounds!!! It was very poorly packed and was all busted up. I never got adime out of him. He's a total rip off.
pitlover
New member
John, when you said you never got a dime out of him did you contact him and let him make it right? I have looked back and I have ordered over 18 cages from him through the years and have never had the type of problem that your referring to. Nor have I heard from anyone that ever has. I know a couple folks that got a bad board or a cracked one but that happens especially when your ordering large numbers and he has to ship via freight. The folks at UPS freight are not the most caring of folks to say the least but I have never known Mark not to make it right and do it out of his own pocket even when it's clearly the freight companies fault. To say he "added it on the COD fee" you would have known that before it shipped and if it was not ok why did you go ahead with it? I think you will find that if you go to the shows talk to people who have worked with him you are going to find about a 99% approval rate for Mark and that is hard to come by in any business. Just my 2 cents though.....
Skeetzy
New member
Well, just got done opening my second package from BoaMaster/Mark.
This time there were indeed 6 pieces inside the box. The box was also packaged A LOT better. They basically made a wall of cardboard around the pieces, then a box around that. Much more efficient design, and did a great job of keeping the box in tact.
The pieces of wood were much cleaner than the previous shipment. No black residue left over from machining this time. Very happy about that.
Few edges/corners are damaged, just as before, but this time it's definitely not because of UPS. There was no tears/rips in the box what so ever, and the pieces were packed so well that there was definitely no room for them to bounce around and cause the damage to each other(talking about wood like its people lol). Also, still some burn marks on a piece or two, but a LOT less than before. Also, none as deep as the burn mark on the top of the first cage.
But, just as before, I wasn't shipped the right pieces. I was shipped a regular 3 ft enclosure, NOT the bearded dragon version which features the screen top as I originally pictured. This came with a solid top and bottom. I mean hey, they got enough pieces to build a cage in the box this time, but the wrong pieces. Stepping stones...
Also, correct me if I'm wrong, but Mark must not provide any screws for his enclosures. No hole in the box for them to fall through this time. Not really a big concern what so ever, just find it slightly odd.
I'm emailing Mark as we speak. Still can't decide how I feel about this shipment.
Pictures of everything can be provided if need be, to verify whatever it may be.
This time there were indeed 6 pieces inside the box. The box was also packaged A LOT better. They basically made a wall of cardboard around the pieces, then a box around that. Much more efficient design, and did a great job of keeping the box in tact.
The pieces of wood were much cleaner than the previous shipment. No black residue left over from machining this time. Very happy about that.
Few edges/corners are damaged, just as before, but this time it's definitely not because of UPS. There was no tears/rips in the box what so ever, and the pieces were packed so well that there was definitely no room for them to bounce around and cause the damage to each other(talking about wood like its people lol). Also, still some burn marks on a piece or two, but a LOT less than before. Also, none as deep as the burn mark on the top of the first cage.
But, just as before, I wasn't shipped the right pieces. I was shipped a regular 3 ft enclosure, NOT the bearded dragon version which features the screen top as I originally pictured. This came with a solid top and bottom. I mean hey, they got enough pieces to build a cage in the box this time, but the wrong pieces. Stepping stones...
Also, correct me if I'm wrong, but Mark must not provide any screws for his enclosures. No hole in the box for them to fall through this time. Not really a big concern what so ever, just find it slightly odd.
I'm emailing Mark as we speak. Still can't decide how I feel about this shipment.
Pictures of everything can be provided if need be, to verify whatever it may be.
Bobby Douglass
Active member
Will the screened top you got with the first shipment work with it? It sounds like Mark has a good product but needs some help with quality control.