Matthew @ Monster Cages-BAD GUY

[Dennis Hultman]

Ok, I understand.
What is the reason given for the cages not being completed?

Matt, How can a storage fee be imposed on something that isn't finished.
Why isn't her order finished?

 

[GuinnyOne]

Dennis, there are 12 cages on the original order. Four 4-footers, four 6-footers and four 8-footers. The 4-footers and the 6-footers are completed...but the 8-footers have been sitting for months. He told me that they were not worked on because he was waiting for me to make up my mind. But then he tells me that I am responsible for all the cages and all the shipping (4-5 months into this). I am perfectly content with taking a portion of the cages....but I only want him to withhold enough of the cages to cover shipping. Which he told me 5 months ago, could not happen. So we were at an impass because he didn't want hold back any of the cages to cover shipping on the remainder. Now he is willing to do that, but he is still wanting to hold back cages that I paid a significantly higher amount for than the $1300 shipping quote.

 

[greg4000]

kelly, my question is, what was the original agreed upon price with shipping? im guessing the cages were paid in full before he started building them? that seems to be standard protocol. was there an original agreed upon amount for shipping and do you have that in an email. have you paid the original amount for shipping at this point, or did you pay as he shipped them?
i am also guessing that you agreed on 6-8 weeks and not nine months, are your cages done now, or are they still incomplete.
any time i have bought cages i get an email stating lead time, total for cages and shipping. that should be binding between you and the manufacturer. if you have these things and matt didnt hold up to his end of the deal, the only responsible party for these mistakes is him. storage fees are ludicriss. if you have an email stating the original terms and costs, that would be a good one to post.

 

[Dennis Hultman]

There has to be some middle ground to work this out. As I understand it, The order wasn’t finished in eight weeks, as you believed it would be. At 16 weeks you decided you weren’t going to wait any longer and he already completed most of your order. He then stopped work on the rest of the order because you weren’t willing to pay anymore for shipping and wanted to use some of the funds sent for the caging for the shipping cost. You believe you had waited enough. As you state he is willing to use some of the caging to pay for shipping but you disagree which cages should be used to fund the shipping. Are the uncompleted cages the ones you want to receive?
Matt, When would have the other cages been done if the deal had proceeded as planned?
It would be very helpful to see the emails. If you could just cut and paste them all.

 

[Monster Cages]

Well here is my side of the story and how things have gone.



First off the original order came in and I told her what approximate shipping charges would be. I also gave her 4 FREE 4 foot cages on this order for prompt payment.



What she failed to mention that she told me to hold off on building for a bit because they were redoing the flooring in their house and she wasn't’t ready.

This was before the 8 week completion date.

We waited to hear back from her to tell us when she was ready for them. Some time passed and I contacted her and asked how things were going and that her cages were coming along fine and that I wanted to know when she would be ready for them.

She then said that she needed more time because her house still wasn't finished. I told her to let me know when things were ready and then we could finish it up.

More time passed and we heard nothing until she e-mailed saying she didn't want any of the caging because she was getting divorced and couldn't afford the shipping and then i tried to work with her by MENTIONING to her that a Reptile Store (Twin Cities Reptile in St. Paul, MN) owned by Bruce Delles would be able to sell the cages for her and she could have the balance but there was talk of the 20% restocking.

I never did load the cages up or take them anywhere. I did make sure Bruce was OK with it and mentioned to her that he was willing if that is what she wanted to do.



I have been trying to work with her the whole time not just now. here is what happened with things and i just reminded her of this yesterday and she didn't deny that is how things went.



at one point you told me to not worry and slow production cause your floor wasn't done
and then your house wasn't ready
and then you were getting divorce and to just sell everything
then you wanted all the cages but the eights
then you wanted all the cages and a couple of the eights but couldn't figure out which ones you wanted
then you wanted the cages and only a couple sixes and a couple eights
now you want them all minus one six and one eight.



and to refund the difference and cover all the shipping based on those different scenarios and I told her that i can't do that cause most of her cages are very very custom cages and they would be hard for me to resell and i couldn't use them.

At one point i did even offer to buy some or all of them from her all if she would take payments and then i would try to have the Twin Cities Reptile sell them



I have no problem finishing the 8 footers. It is correct that they are not done, but the pieces for them have been cut and routed and just need to be welded, supports in the ceiling and doors and hardware done and that i can't refund on something that has already been customized for her order.



I have no problem getting them done and putting extra time in to get them done but she said she refused to pay the shipping on them because she can't afford them. The shipping was NEVER in the price of this project and she knew it was extra and that the order did change when i first gave her an estimate and not to mention the time delays on her part and partially on mine based on what she was telling and shipping has gone through the roof based on fuel surcharges and other stuff. Just ask any shipping person if rates haven't gone up a great deal just like gas has gone up a great deal. No shipping company will lock in rates further than 1 week or two out.



I have also offered to put her in contact with our shipping logistics company so she could still get our discount and pay them directly instead of going through us, otherwise shipping would be 62% more based on that being our discount with our carriers.




I have been trying to figure this out and work with her on things but with how custom everything is would make it hard for anyone to buy these and I can post the specifics of the order to show how different the sizes actually are. I have no intent on ripping her off or not sending her cages but she is not giving the full story and leaving key things out. I intend on getting the eight footers completed for her and will expect her to assume the shipping costs which like i said can be paid directly to the shipping company if that is the issue or she can set up shipping on her end if she prefers.



Thanks
Matthew Martin

 

[Junkyard]

So Kelly, did you stall the shipping out of the cages as Matt has stated? This is good, leave out vital information, like you asked him not to ship out at 8 weeks because you were not ready for them! Then run around changing your mind so he has no idea what you want!

 

[PythonGuy]

Let's not make any accusations until we hear her response. Matt, do you have any emails between you two that proves she couldn't make up her mind?

 

[Chameleon Company]

Matt,
No doubt there were some delays that Kelly is responsible for. This looks like it could be a real mess if every detail is attempted to be sorted out as well. It appears that it has come down to the money for shipping, and whether there is any money at all for it, or for the $600-800 estimate, or for the actual total which is now near $1300. While Kelly is responsible for added costs due to her delays in being able to receive the cages, a court would also hold you responsible for the original estimate on shipping as you had a "good faith" obligation there. If you had said "likely $600-800, but possibly up to $1500" for instance, it would be different. A court would also not support an "all or nothing" approach since both entities were unable to perform as to the original agreement, and would seek a fair compromise. A possible solution would be to hold back some of the cages to sell to cover the shipping of the rest, as Kelly suggested. Most entities here would agree what you may not be able to sell them for what was originally paid since they are custom, and that their value is diminished, and that you may need to hold back more than Kelly suggested. I suggest withholding enough of the cages for resale to guarantee your being compensated for shipping. Due to the mistakes on both sides, a court would not rule the cages as "abandoned", allowing you to sell them elsewhere, with Kelly having to absorb all of the loss. I really believe that would be a mistake, and cost you more than other solutions in the end. Ship a reasonable amount, and then settle up once the cages held back to cover shipping are sold. At least you may be able to get a potential $6000 - $7300 dispute down to a few hundred dollars.

 

[Junkyard]

Let's not make any accusations until we hear her response. Matt, do you have any emails between you two that proves she couldn't make up her mind?

As of this point, accusations are all we really have. Kelly has stalled because of her divorce, but did she stall because of other things that she has not come forward with?

Jim, good post.

Okay I need to step away from the keyboard, I am in a bad mood today and cannot see things clearly.

 

[GuinnyOne]

Okay, here goes....this is going to be long. I would like to cut and paste all e-mails, but without the dates, it wouldn't seem relavent. I have the dates in the headers, but when I try to cut and paste all the headers too, it ends up being very long.

First off the original order came in and I told her what approximate shipping charges would be. I also gave her 4 FREE 4 foot cages on this order for prompt payment.

This is not true. He gave me 2 free 4 foot cages. Here is the e-mail to prove that:

KAJ" <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Did you get.....?
Date: Thu, 1 Dec 2005 18:16:30 -0600

if you could get the balance of the order to us we could do up 2 48"x30"x18" cages for free if you wanted and then good price on the other two
just trying to finance a really nice boa for this breeding season and before plastic goes up again

www.monster-cages.com

Your source for YOUR strongest cages customized just for you.

507-474-0172 Home
507-313-3734 Cell
507-474-4253 Shop

Thanks Matthew
Monster Cages

new price of order
Date: Fri, 2 Dec 2005 15:46:17 -0600

Total from before $4790 + shipping

(2) 24 light fixtures $25 each or $50 both
(2) incadescent light fixtures $10 each or $20 both

(4) 48"x 30"x18" $275 each or $550/ all with discount of $550 for two free cages
(4) 18" light $15 each or $60/all
(3) Incandescent light fixture $10 each or 30/all

NEW total $5450 + shipping

I need to go back and look up exactly how much money I sent him because I know it was more than this.

What she failed to mention that she told me to hold off on building for a bit because they were redoing the flooring in their house and she wasn't’t ready.

Not entirely true. I told him to take his time (as mentioned in above postings). I wanted them done correctly, but I could have put them in the garage at any time.

Sat, 18 Mar 2006 16:35:31 -0800 (PST)
From: "KAJ" <[email protected]> Add to Address Book Add Mobile Alert
Subject: Re: hey
To: "Monster Cages" <[email protected]>

That is fine. I appreciate it, they do need to be very strong. Just keep me informed. I haven't gotten the flooring replaced yet, so it is alright to wait until all the cages are done to be shipped at once. Write me in a couple weeks and let me know of the progress :0) Kelly

This was half way through March....I had been checking in with him every week or two weeks. I didn't want to sound like a complete whip-cracking witch...but I did want them done in a timely matter still. However, they were still not even close to being done and this was 12 weeks later.

Matt mentions a lot of waiting....there was waiting. Because I was trying to come up with things mid-April (16 weeks in) that we could reach an agreement on. There seemed to be nothing that was "can do".

I never did load the cages up or take them anywhere. I did make sure Bruce was OK with it and mentioned to her that he was willing if that is what she wanted to do.

Tue, 23 May 2006 13:31:52 -0500

I had them at one point loaded and ready to go to a reptile store on consignment with him cause you said you wanted to sell them, find another cage company to do that on my nickel getting them up there and stuff.

Thanks
Matthew
Monster Cages
www.monster-cages.com

507-474-0172
507-313-3734 Cell

YOUR source for the strongest and most custom
cage company around.

As for making up my mind....I knew what I wanted....but everything I suggested was "not possible" or couldn't be done on his end. Yes, there have been quite a variety of suggestions. But I was trying to come up with solutions that we could both be comfortable with. The time spent hashing this out started after 16 weeks, when I was looking at a divorce and finally gave up and e-mailed, asking if the cages had even been completed, and they had not. I did e-mail at one point and told him he could make payments back to me if that was what it took...but didn't seem like that was going to work either. I know what I want and what I need....but we have fiddling around with numbers now for the past couple days. He did originally tell me it was all or nothing and there was NO WAY he was going to hold back cages to cover the shipping costs. This has only been quite recently that he agreed to do so.

 

[Monster Cages]

yeah i did give two free cages not four, I typed it wrong on here sorry


I am posting it this way cause i don't know how to get all the properties to show and timestamps and all that, someone let me know how. So obviously was trying to help way back in April and anyone feel free to contact Bruce Dellis at Twin City Reptiles about me asking way back then about him possibly being able to sell these in his shop as helping her out based on me asking if he could.

Email on April 13th 2006 at 3:39 pm

[Thanks for trying to think of things. My life has been so terribly chaotic...I feel like I'm on the verge of a nervous break. Just send all the cages except 1 of the 8 footers. Don't send one of the ones that is 18 inches with the divider....just send everything. Can we use the cost of that one cage to cover shipping of the others?

Monster Cages <[email protected]> wrote:
The other thing i could do is make small payments to you on most of your cages and put the sizes that i don't need up for sale. I would be doing this not my company and i don't have alot extra right now being i am not pulling a salary from the company and waiting on baby boas and retics to start hatching in about 3 weeks and then will take a couple weeks to get them to shed and eat a couple times. I couldn't do anything till babies pop up though

Let me know I am trying to offer something but the company can't refund on an order like this based on it being custom and based on the cages all being layed up or done in one fashion or another

Thanks
Matthew
Monster Cages
www.monster-cages.com

507-474-0172
507-313-3734 Cell

YOUR source for the strongest and most custom
cage company around. ]


Here is email from yesterday admitting to things on how things were handled early on

Sent on 8/24/2006 9:16 pm

[What I have been trying to do is come up with a variety of solutions that could please us both....everytime I make a suggestion, all you say is that it can't happen. I'm done. I really am. Tonight, I am extremely irritated with this whole thing. Yes, I told you to take your time originally...that was many, many months ago. I guess I kicked my own ass with that statement, I should have just told you to get them done....but I wanted them done right. And now you haven't even worked on them for months saying that you were waiting for me to decide what I am going to do. I wasn't deciding anything, I was trying to come up with a solution that we could both work with.....obviously that isn't something that can happen.

Monster Cages <[email protected]> wrote:
at one point you told me to not worry and slow production cause your floor wasn't done
and then your house wasn't ready
and then you were getting divorce and to just sell everything
then you wanted all the cages but the eights
then you wanted all the cages and a couple of the eight but couldn't figure out which ones you wanted
then you wanted the cages and only a couple sixes and a couple eights
now you want them all minus one six and one eight]

Once again if someone could help me on getting all the details from the emails I can then post the whole email with time details and everything would be a BIG help

Thanks
Matthew Martin

 

[Chameleon Company]

Matt,
It looks like you are trying to stay level-headed about this, and not let the public-forum aspect of it distort things. Legally, you have no obligation to refund IMO unless you choose to, as both parties bent the original agreement, and you would then be stuck with a large investment in custom cages not necessarily worth as much to others, where you would take the full loss If this stays a $6000 unfilled order, or a scenario where you sell the cages at a loss which is Kelly's to absorb, you are putting yourself in significant legal jeopardy. Unfilled contracts that are essentially paid for, or unilateral changes to them by one party without the consent of the other, is like shooting yourself in the foot should it go to court. Trade some emails once again with Kelly, and find a way to ship most of the order. If she thinks you should hold back two cages to sell to cover shipping, hold back three (or whatever). Try to find a way so that each of you has about 80% of what you want, and then over time you can work out the rest. An all-or-nothing stance will put you in jeopardy. Anything that amounts to a unilateral change to the deal, especially if it saddles the other party with the bulk of the losses, will also put you in jeopardy. Plan A seemed to have been with good intentions, but it is gone now. Find an equitable Plan B, or at least take actions to get close to it, and move on to other needs. Right now you have the money and the cages. Not a sympathetic position

 

[Monster Cages]

I have no problem sending her all the cages, but she says that she won't pay the shipping cause she can't afford it. These were all suggestions that she was making and i was trying to get things resolved and to help her how i could, but i can't take a bunch of 8'x4'x2' cages and try to sell them, that size would be a hard sell unless a discounted price to move them out. The cage contract did not in anyway include shipping at all and that is the hold up right now. I will finish the order no problem and then will get it all ready to ship and wait for her to contact me on the shipping or my logistics company.

Thanks
Matthew Martin

 

[Chameleon Company]

Matt and Kelly,
Sounds like you are closer. I don't know if Kelly has the original $600-800, or if even that is beyond reach right now. If its not there, you'll have to try to work that out. As for the full $1300, my opinion would be that you two split the difference, providing Matt can show that is the actual cost. It ain't perfect, but its not an uncommon solution. If Kelly just can't come up with any shipping money, then I would just hope that there is some way to hold back enough cages to recover the cost of shipping the rest without putting too much of a pinch on either party. In all fairness, I think that will require holding back enough to pretty much guarantee a cushion, and then any left-over balance realized being sent on to Kelly when final settlement is done. Whatever the solution, I think both parties will have to give a little from the first plan. Sometimes the BOI only escalates the animosity, and makes solutions all the more difficult. Not that it doesn't have a purpose, but it can also make manageable problems less manageable, with the only "gain" being a pox on both your houses. There's a lot of money spent here, and some very nice cages made, I am sure. Would just be a shame not to find common ground to work it out.

 

[Monster Cages]

We would not have a problem with splitting the difference from $800 to ACTUAL cost. I can't lock in a rate until about 7-10 days out from shipping. The shipping may go up and may go down, just like how turbulent everything has been lately. I won't know actual shipping till then and will do what i did before was look it up on the website and then copy and paste and then she can choose the actual carrier based on cost and how long to get there if there is multiple carriers. The only way i could hold back caging and cover the shipping would be to hold back 3 eight footers cause based on the stuff being routed and worked i would only be able to maybe salvage a 8 foot by 2 foot by 2 foot or 18 inch tall cage and they only retail for $550 each.

The ball is in her court and would like the intensions posted on here that way there is no disputing it at all.


Thanks
Matthew Martin

 

[GuinnyOne]

I'll try to post all the e-mails this weekend. It won't have full headers, but it will at least have the time and date stamp. I don't have every e-mail from the very, very beginning. At that time, I saved the ones I thought were the most important, but have all of them ever since. I have a busy day today.

I did say in the very beginning that I told him to take his time and do it right. I never told him to halt or delay production. That is why I told him that I guess I shot myself in the ass because when he tells me 6-8 weeks, and I tell him to take his time, in my mind that does not mean to take DOUBLE the maximum time given. I'm thinking 12 weeks maybe. I'll post all the e-mails.

There were a couple times that I would let a week go by and just e-mail to ask how the cages were coming along. I would get a pretty snippy response to the extent of "it takes longer than 2 weeks to build cages." I would think that my e-mailing and checking on their status every 1-2 weeks would have been a good indicator that I was serious about getting them.

 

[GuinnyOne]

Okay, I had a pretty horrid weekend. So here it is Tuesday, but it is the best I could do. Here are all the e-mails that I have from this entire deal. Like I said earlier, there are a couple from the very beginning that I deleted way back then, but ALL of the e-mail from the last 9 months are there. If there are any Matt would like to post that I no longer have, then I invite him to do so. Matt's e-mails are in dark blue and mine are in dark green.

Fri, 18 Nov 2005 00:09:58 -0600

2 cages that are 72" x24" x12" $400
with removeable divider
18" flourscent light (both sides on right) 30
heat tape and wired up 25

Total 455 each + shipping

1 cage that is 72" x 24" x 12" $350
no divider
18" flourescent light 15
heat tape and wired up 25

Total 440 each + shipping



1 cage that is 72x24x24 $375
18" flourescent light right side 15
incandescent light left side 10
4" screen venting half way up on both sides 10
heat tape and wired up 25Total 435 each + shipping


2 cages that are 96\"Lx48\"Wx18\"H $675
with removeable divider
18" flourescent light ( both sides on right) 30
incandescent light (both sides on left) 20
heat tape and wired up 30
4" screen venting half way up on both sides 20Total 765 each + shipping


1 cages that are 96\"Lx48\"Wx18\"H $625
with removeable divider
18" flourescent light ( both sides on right) 30
incandescent light (both sides on left) 20
heat tape and wired up 30
4" screen venting half way up on both sides 20

Total $725 each + shipping


1 cage that is 96"x 48"x24" $675
4" screen venting half way up on both sides 20
heat tape 30
18" flourescent light 15
incandescent light 10

Total $750 each + shipping

Grand total $4790 + shipping
Let me know



2 of these cages need 1 partition placed in the middle $625 + shipping

(1) Cage that is 96x48x24 $675 + shipping

We can add lights, heat tape to all the cages also and all of the cages would ship on a 8 foot pallet and shipping would be the same as knockdown. Let me know

Sent: Friday, November 18, 2005 12:24 AM
Subject: Re: Cage order

Hey, Awesome. I went through and made a couple modifications...kind of brain fried...I'll try to put my text in a different color, or highlighted. Not much difference...

Fri, 18 Nov 2005 00:25:38 -0600

yeah that works
when do you want to proceed with things

www.monster-cages.com

Fri, 18 Nov 2005 00:26:55 -0600

[email protected] is the paypal account. Please add the 3% paypal charge

Monster Cages <[email protected]> wrote: when do you think you will be able to do more, I am trying to figure out when to go get your plastic being i have to pick it up and it is 3 hrs away
did you think of anything else for your caging?

Sun, 20 Nov 2005 12:39:41 -0800 (Haven't thought of anything else for the cages. I'm hoping that the little modifications I sent on the estimate page are enough. I think it will all work out the way it is. As far as money goes, its Sunday, not much I can do as far as depositing any money in the accounts. My husband is self employed and there are a lot of people who owe him a lot of money...so we have to kind of play it by ear and see what checks arrive in the mail. I'll balance the business account today. But I should probably be able to send, maybe, $1000....hopefully by the end of this week. But it will be another week or two beyond that before I can send another $1000 to cover the materials. I don't know how you work grabbing the plastic...so I guess don't worry about it this week ? <shrug> Kelly

Monster Cages <[email protected]> wrote: yeah just keep me up to date and will go from there

Sun, 20 Nov 2005 13:54:14 -0800 (PST)Would it be a problem for me to mail checks to you? I figure 37 cents is a lot cheaper than the $15 a just paid PayPal just to send you $500. Obviously I still won't get my cages until after the checks clear anyway.....let me know. Kelly

Monster Cages <[email protected]> wrote: yeah that way would work fine also it is whatever is easiest for you guys
just let me know so i can watch for them also

Sun, 20 Nov 2005 17:06:58 -0800 (PST)What is your mailing address? I just hate the idea of giving 150 bucks to paypal for this whole transaction. I could go grocery shopping with that money. Kelly

Sun, 20 Nov 2005 19:13:54 -0600
on our website is our address
Monster Cages LLC
515 E 12th St
Winona, MN 55987

Mon, 21 Nov 2005 09:35:25 -0800 (PST) think I'd like to put 2 florescent fixtures in the two 8-foot cages that don't have dividers. Or possibly use 24" strips in these two cages instead of 18". I think I just need to produce more florescent light in these cages for some reason. And, I moved some money around today....Tomorrow we are getting a pretty big check. So I'm going to wait until tomorrow and see how much I can send to you. But I'll let you know how much and exactly when I put it in the mail. Kelly

Wed, 23 Nov 2005 08:00:53 -0600
did you get your big payment
there might be an added price going with bigger lights


Wed, 23 Nov 2005 09:23:20 -0800 (PST)I put a check in the mail for $1000...it should go out today. The catch is that we got that big check last night, but we can't deposit it until Friday. So by Saturday, you should be able to deposit the check....if you even get it by then. I don't know how long it will take to get there. But if you could do me a favor, and if you do get it sooner, could you hang onto it until I send you an e-mail to cash it??? But, like I said, it might not even be there by the time I get to the bank here.
As far as the lighting goes...I only want 2 strips that are 24"...that is all. I know they'll cost a little extra. But I figure, I may as well spend some of that $150 that I'm saving from PayPal LOL. Kelly

Wed, 23 Nov 2005 17:32:20 -0800 (PST)Did you get.....?My last message about sending the money out? I do imagine that it will be there by Monday at the latest. But I do have some great news. My hubby picked up a couple huge fire/water damage jobs....so by mid-december I should be able to take a huge chunk out of the amount I owe you. Kelly

Wed, 23 Nov 2005 20:38:38 -0600
sounds good

Fri, 25 Nov 2005 18:19:42 -0800 (PST) I moved money today so you can do whatever you need to with that check right when you get it :0)Kelly

Fri, 25 Nov 2005 20:22:03 -0600
didn't get anything yet

Fri, 25 Nov 2005 18:48:50 -0800 (PST)Thanksgiving slowed things down...I suspect you'll either get the check tomorrow or monday. Kelly

Mon, 28 Nov 2005 17:48:35 -0600
I received your check today

Mon, 28 Nov 2005 16:10:52 -0800 (PST)Cool, money is in the bank, do what you need to with it. I think I'm going to try conning some money out of my dad so I can get this paid for. I am dying for these cages. Kelly

Mon, 28 Nov 2005 19:11:07 -0600
sounds good the sooner the better cause orders are picking up which is alot earlier than last year

Thu, 1 Dec 2005 10:41:57 -0600
Let me know so i can pick up the plastic when you get a chance

Thu, 1 Dec 2005 08:57:00 -0800 (PST)Working on it still. I'll let you know as soon as I know. Kelly

Thu, 1 Dec 2005 11:36:19 -0600
hope you had a good thanksgiving

Thu, 1 Dec 2005 11:37:06 -0600
u have any pics of what you are putting in these cages?
I like to see what we are building things for

Thu, 1 Dec 2005 10:49:09 -0800 (PST)Well, it was alright. Original plan was to drive over the mountain to Reno to see my grandparents/aunt...have dinner at my aunt's house. But my grandmother fell a couple days before and had to go to the hospital. 88 years old..and she didn't break anything. I guess she is doing a better now, just strained some stuff. Kelly

Thu, 1 Dec 2005 10:54:27 -0800 (PST)Yeah, I'll attach a few. I just downloaded some onto my computer from digital camera :0) Oh, and a little good news. I haven't had the nerve to ask my dad yet, but I have a credit card on the way with a 3K limit...so I'll probably transfer like 2750 as soon as I get the card. That way I can pay that off slowly and then just send the rest of the money a little later. Once I get the card paid off, I'll just cancel it. I was also thinking of adding like 3-4 other cages...4x2's. But I am going to get that other money to you first, and then we can look at that. I just realized my baby burmese torts are really going to need something bigger fast, might as well do it all at once.

Thu, 1 Dec 2005 18:12:16 -0600
We could work you a really good deal on 4 foot cages if you want some added to the order

Thu, 1 Dec 2005 18:16:30 -0600
if you could get the balance of the order to us we could do up 2 48"x30"x18" cages for free if you wanted and then good price on the other two
just trying to finance a really nice boa for this breeding season and before plastic goes up again

Thu, 1 Dec 2005 16:59:41 -0800 (PST)Hey, that would be awesome. I'm still working on it though. And those cage sizes would be great. I would still have to have flourescents/incandescent and heat tape added to all those. Well, at least 1 would be for a snake..so no incandescent in that one. And the other 3 would have to have vent strips that I could pay ya for. I really am trying to get the money together, I swear. Let me call my dad. Did we ever figure out how much shipping was? I've kind of been just aiming for the 5K mark, but with these other cages, probably looking closer to 6K with shipping. I know I've gotten only $1500 to you so far. Oye....dad will hold this over my head forever....even if I pay him interest. Kelly

Thu, 1 Dec 2005 19:18:43 -0600
yeah just let me know

Thu, 1 Dec 2005 17:50:30 -0800 (PST)Well, Dad said he would loan me $1500 and as soon as I get that, and the other card I can send you all the money. I will probably be able to get the money from him this weekend and I'll just transfer it to you. The credit card is through PayPal and the notice I recieved yesterday is that I'll be recieving my card any day and all I have to do is activate it and use. So I'll send that through Paypal. Can you figure out more of a total for me? And the 18" is the absolute perfect height for the 4-foot cages I need. That I way I have a better idea of what I'm aiming at....Kelly

Thu, 1 Dec 2005 20:02:00 -0600
so you want 4 four foot cages added? and lights and everything except one incandescent light fixture

Thu, 1 Dec 2005 18:07:23 -0800 (PST)Yes, 4 4-footers...you said 48x30x18.

So 1 of those is for a ball python. So just a flourescent fixture and heat tape.

3-with flourescent fixture and incandescent fixture, heat tape, and vents

That should cover all the animals now. Well, except the sulcata LOL. I was just hoping for a better idea. Do you still have the original e-mail that I adjusted a few things with and sent back? Let me know cause I can send it to you again. Kelly

Thu, 1 Dec 2005 20:14:20 -0600

yeah i do
I will be able to give you update order total tomorrow and go from there
Do you think you will be able to get the balance on the order within the next two weeks you think?

Thu, 1 Dec 2005 20:14:57 -0600

send it again though so I have it right here to redo things tomorrow so i don't have to hunt for it

Thu, 1 Dec 2005 18:51:12 -0800 (PST)Argh...now I can't find that e-mail.

So I'll just type it up as it is fresh in my mind.

1-48x30x18 w/ heat tape, 18" flourescent
3-48x30x18 w/heat tape, 18" flourescent, 1 incandescent, venting

1-8'x4'x2' w/heat tape, 24" flourescent, 1 incandescent, venting
1-8'x4'x18" w/heat tape, 24" flourescent, 1 incandescent, venting
2-8'x4'x18" w/divider, heat tape, 18" flourescent in each side, 1 incandescent in each side, venting

1-72x24x24 w/heat tape, 18" flourescent, 1 incandescent, venting
1-72x24x18 w/heat tape, 18" flourescent, 1 incandescent, venting
2-72x24x12 w/divider, heat tape, 18" flourescent in each side

I hope this is everything we talked about. If there is anything you think I'm missing let me know.

I don't see why I wouldn't be able to get the balance to you in the next 2 weeks. I would expect to get my card by Saturday, or Monday at the lastest. I'm shooting for one week actually. But, of course this all depends on other factors....I just believe I can get it to you by then. Kelly

Thu, 1 Dec 2005 20:58:05 -0600

Here is that email
<removed, just a copy of the first e-mail>

Thu, 1 Dec 2005 19:06:15 -0800 (PST)Figures LOL! Yeah, that looks about like what I sent, it just has more details on the light placement. Geeze...i think i either need to go to bed or drink some coffee!. Kelly

Fri, 2 Dec 2005 15:46:17 -0600

Total from before $4790 + shipping

(2) 24 light fixtures $25 each or $50 both
(2) incadescent light fixtures $10 each or $20 both

(4) 48"x 30"x18" $275 each or $550/ all with discount of $550 for two free cages
(4) 18" light $15 each or $60/all
(3) Incandescent light fixture $10 each or 30/all

NEW total $5450 + shipping

Fri, 2 Dec 2005 14:12:55 -0800 (PST)Do you have any thoughts at all on how much shipping will be for all these? And I got that card today, so I have to go activate and send the money. Kelly

Fri, 2 Dec 2005 18:27:14 -0600

It is hard to say depends on how it all fits on the skid or two
600-800 i bet

Fri, 2 Dec 2005 20:36:01 -0600

$5450
- 500
-1000

New total $3950 + shipping

Fri, 2 Dec 2005 19:34:23 -0800 (PST)Tried sending some money from the new card, but I just activated it and PayPal denied it. So I'm going to wait until tomorrow and see if it won't go through then, then I'll call the customer service on the card if it still won't go through. I figure it just needs time to be updated in the system. Kelly

Fri, 2 Dec 2005 21:42:06 -0600

yeah i just thought i would send you all the updated info

Sun, 4 Dec 2005 12:13:21 -0800 (PST)I just rewrote everything...and it looks to me like I owe you another $35 or so. I'm going to type it all up again and you can look through it and tell me if all calculations are correct.

72x24x12 w/divider $400
18"flourescent centered on each side $30
heat tape & wired $25
Total x 2 cages $455x2=$910

72x24x18 no divider $350
18" flourescent right side $15
incandescent left side $10
heat tape & wired $25
Total $400

72x24x24 no divider $375
18" flourescent right side $15
incandescent left side $10
heat tape and wired $25
4" screen top both sides $10
Total $435


96x48x18 w/divider $675
18" flourescent right/both sides $30
incandescent left/both sides $20
heat tape and wired $30
4" screen at top/both sides $20
Total x 2 cages $775x2=$1550


96x48x18 no divider $625
24" flourescent right side $25
incandescent left side $10
heat tape and wired $30
4" screen at top/both sides $20
Total $710

96x48x24 no divider $675
24" flourescent right side $25
incandescent left side $10
heat tape and wired $30
4" screen at top/both sides $20
Total $760


(4) 48x30x18 $275ea or $550 total (including discount)

(4) 18" flourescent fixtures right side $60
(3) incandescent fixtures left side $30
(4) heat tape and wired $20ea.. $80
Total $170

(I'm just assuming that the 4ft of heat tape is $20 because it appears that the price goes up by $5 per additional 2ft...if I'm wrong, correct me)

But I added this all up and it looks like the total comes to $5485

So, subtract that $1500....so I owe you $3985 + shipping.

Kelly

Sun, 4 Dec 2005 12:17:10 -0800 (PST)Eek...and it looks like I owe you more than that because I need 2 of the 48x30x18's to have the 4 inch venting on the top of each side. Let me know, Kelly <off to work on PayPal again>

Sun, 4 Dec 2005 14:17:16 -0600

don't worry about the $35 you have a good sized order so don't worry about it

Sun, 4 Dec 2005 14:18:19 -0600

just will need to add the 3% that paypal charges though so i don't loose that

Sun, 4 Dec 2005 12:20:17 -0800 (PST)haha, okay. Well, I just went to PayPal again (didn't forget the 3% LOL) and they denied it again. So I'm going to go call the credit card. Kelly

Sun, 4 Dec 2005 18:13:30 -0600

got your $2800 payment

Sun, 4 Dec 2005 16:40:20 -0800 (PST)Yeah, I had to call the credit card and they had to verify it was me trying to make the purchase, even though when I activated the card, I did it through an actual person also. Seems stupid, but I guess in a way I appreciate it because it is only for my protection. Anyway, dad forgot to send the money down this weekend, but he is supposed to be in town tomorrow. Something tells me he is going to cash my rent check then make me the loan Is it okay if I just send the $1500 for now. That should pay for everything plus $315 towards shipping. And then....maybe, wait until you get ready to ship to send the rest of the money for shipping since we don't know how much it will be? How do you want to work that? Kelly

Sun, 4 Dec 2005 18:42:44 -0600

just wait on the shipping till we are almost ready

Thu, 8 Dec 2005 10:49:27 -0800 (PST)Well, I talked to my dad a couple of nights ago, he asked me how soon I needed the money even though I did tell him when I originally talked to him. He said he would get it to me in the next week or so. Don't know why he couldn't remember, must be a severe case of CRS. Anyway, just keeping you updated. I'll get it to you as soon as I get it. Kelly

Thu, 8 Dec 2005 13:06:00 -0600

sounds good
just ordered the plastic and they are out till beginning of next week so I am hoping to go and pick it up end of next week (3 hrs one way)

Tue, 13 Dec 2005 07:02:18 -0600

We need to get the balance done in order to get the special deal of the two free cages
Let me know

Tue, 13 Dec 2005 13:28:49 -0800 (PST)I'll call my dad this afternoon when he gets home from work, he should have gotten his check by now, so he can write me a check, so I can paypal the money to you. Should be Wednesday I can get the payment to you depending on what my father indicates. I haven't forgotten. And if you could give me until then to get the balance for my 2 cages, I'd sure appreciate it. Kelly

Wed, 14 Dec 2005 06:54:02 -0800 (PST)I'll have the rest of the money to you in the next 12 hours. Kelly

Thu, 15 Dec 2005 08:08:19 -0800 (PST)Did you get the money I sent? I haven't heard from you? kelly

Thu, 15 Dec 2005 10:27:53 -0600

Yeah i did recieve the funds.
I should be picking up the plastic tomorrow if it is in

Thu, 12 Jan 2006 09:25:00 -0800 (PST)Haven't talked to you in almost a month, so I was just checking up and seeing how things were going? My e-mail was down for a bit last month in case you tried to contact me. Kelly

Thu, 12 Jan 2006 11:30:59 -0600

just finally got stuff, there was a shortage for awhile and will be working on them a bit more than usual to try to catch up

Thu, 12 Jan 2006 09:42:56 -0800 (PST)Okay, well keep in touch. I had a question too, about shipping. If they are going to be shipped freight....(sorry, I'm an idiot when it comes to these things) that means it will be shipped on a diesel, correct? And will that diesel be able to drop the shipment at my house, or will I have to pick it up somewhere?

Thu, 12 Jan 2006 14:22:00 -0600

The shipping would come to your door unless you have someone that you know or some company with a loading dock would save you some on shipping with going to loading dock

Fri, 13 Jan 2006 12:53:50 -0800 (PST)No, I don't know anyone with a loading dock. So they would have to come to the house directly. Kelly

Thu, 26 Jan 2006 10:18:21 -0800 (PST)Hey, it has been a couple of weeks. Just wondering how things are going and if I need to start getting money together for shipping?

Thu, 26 Jan 2006 12:28:18 -0600

it takes more than a couple weeks to build them
last email I let you know that there was a problem getting the plastic due to some shortages and such. They are being worked on and got most everything cut earlier today

Thu, 26 Jan 2006 10:33:01 -0800 (PST)I know it takes longer to build them....but it is also going to take me awhile to get money together for shipping LOLOL. I haven't even gotten all the carpet replaced in my house yet...so I'm not quite ready to have them anyway :0) Kelly

Sent: Thursday, February 16, 2006 11:21 AM
Subject: Re: hey
Just checking to see how things are going. Let me know, Kelly

Thu, 16 Feb 2006 11:25:07 -0600

they are coming along nicely now, one guy is building just yours right now
the 4 footers are done and 6 footers being worked on now



Okay, This is long, I'm going to start another post because I don't know how long of post this allow me to put up.

 

[GuinnyOne]

Part 2

Sat, 18 Mar 2006 12:55:35 -0800 (PST)Well, it has been another month...how are the cages coming? How much longer do you think it will be before they are completed? Kelly

Sat, 18 Mar 2006 15:53:31 -0600they are getting worked on
we had to redo something on some cages and start over but the 6 footers and 4 footers are done
could ship you those and then the 8 footers later or all at once if you want
I do apologize for the delay

Sat, 18 Mar 2006 15:54:20 -0600

the reason we started over was because they weren't something i was happy with as far as design and strength so i am sorry

Sat, 18 Mar 2006 16:35:31 -0800 (PST)That is fine. I appreciate it, they do need to be very strong. Just keep me informed. I haven't gotten the flooring replaced yet, so it is alright to wait until all the cages are done to be shipped at once. Write me in a couple weeks and let me know of the progress :0) Kelly

Mon, 27 Mar 2006 16:16:12 -0800 (PST)Hey Matthew, how are things looking? When you get a chance, could send me a couple photos of what has already been completed. Kelly

Mon, 27 Mar 2006 20:12:50 -0600

I sure can some are in our storage unit cause we need all the space we can get but yeah no problem sorry for taking so long sometimes bigger custom cages do

Wed, 12 Apr 2006 12:24:29 -0700 (PDT)Well, I haven't heard from you. And I am having to sell off the majority of my reptiles because my marriage has pretty well come to an end. I won't be needing the majority of those cages now. So I'd still like to get 2 of the 8-footers, but would like a refund on the remainder. Sorry to do this to you, but I really don't have any other options at this point. Kelly

Wed, 12 Apr 2006 14:32:49 -0500

the cages are layed up and can't do a refund on something like that
just working on the 8 now and they are half done
the 6 footers are done and 4 footers are done too

Wed, 12 Apr 2006 12:45:21 -0700 (PDT)Originally you told me that it would be 6-8 weeks. And I understand, I had a big order. I sent the last payment to you on December 14th. It has been nearly 16 weeks now, twice what you originally told me. I have been pretty patient, but I no longer need all the cages. Had the cages been here a month ago, I would have had to deal with that. But they are not here, and the order is still not even completed. If you cannot give me a partial refund, then I will ask for an entire refund. You can even send payments to me. Kelly

Wed, 12 Apr 2006 16:48:52 -0500

sorry that is not how it works and it was also indicated that the plastic was back ordered so that set things behind by two weeks you had also told us to take our time being you had to redo your flooring also. iBeing things have been layed up and almost completed with the 8s being layed up and just have to weld, doors and hardware we can't refund any of it considering things have been altered and it is a custom order and won't be able to resell these very easily and in order to would have to sell for less in order to move them out.

Wed, 12 Apr 2006 18:08:16 -0500

feel free to give me a jingle also at number below

Thu, 13 Apr 2006 05:32:43 -0500

the other thing i could do is put them for sale at a buddy of mines Reptile store and see how they do but it is a slow time of the year for selling cages and these probably won't sell at what you bought them for since they are custom stuff, I can't make any guarantees on how fast they will move or anything like that

Thu, 13 Apr 2006 05:38:31 -0500

The other thing i could do is make small payments to you on most of your cages and put the sizes that i don't need up for sale. I would be doing this not my company and i don't have alot extra right now being i am not pulling a salary from the company and waiting on baby boas and retics to start hatching in about 3 weeks and then will take a couple weeks to get them to shed and eat a couple times. I couldn't do anything till babies pop up though

Let me know I am trying to offer something but the company can't refund on an order like this based on it being custom and based on the cages all being layed up or done in one fashion or another

Thu, 13 Apr 2006 13:39:08 -0700 (PDT)Thanks for trying to think of things. My life has been so terribly chaotic...I feel like I'm on the verge of a nervous break. Just send all the cages except 1 of the 8 footers. Don't send one of the ones that is 18 inches with the divider....just send everything. Can we use the cost of that one cage to cover shipping of the others?

Sat, 6 May 2006 13:07:58 -0700 (PDT)Well, I never heard back from you about my last inquiry a couple weeks ago. Can you ship all the cages except for 1 of the 8x4x18 w/divider and use the money from the last cage to ship them? Please let me know. I would like to get something rolling here. Kelly

Mon, 8 May 2006 11:38:55 -0500

well we will get back working on them again
we put off working on them till you decided which way you are going to go with things. On custom cage like those we can't put the $$$ for the cage towards the shipping if it was a more standard size then we could help sell it

Mon, 8 May 2006 10:22:31 -0700 (PDT)I was unaware that 4x8 was a custom size. You said the 8 footers were only half done. Not sure what that means, but maybe you could elaborate. And I actually e-mailed you when we had the discussion a couple of weeks ago and you never e-mailed me back...guess you didn't see my e-mail. I would really like for you to start working with me. I just said I would take all the cages but one of them. You also told me that it would be no problem to take photos of the ones you had completed and I haven't seen those either. Frankly, I am wondering if these cages even exist at all. But until I have definate proof that they do exist, I am not sending you more money for shipping. It was stupid enough of me to send you almost $6000....and now 5 months have passed with no proof these cages even exist when I asked for a photos a couple months ago and you agreed to send some. Please work with me here. I want all but one of the cages...figure something out. Kelly

Mon, 8 May 2006 12:52:10 -0500

i have sent photos two different times and didn't hear back from you
there is alot that goes into these cages if you don't believe me that they are getting done then i am sorry
I have a reputation with cages and snakes and not going to destroy it over $6k trust me

Mon, 8 May 2006 12:53:02 -0500

you will be getting all the cages and you are responsible for the total shipping
that was explained up front a while back

Mon, 8 May 2006 10:58:38 -0700 (PDT)Then please send the photos again. I check my inbox as well as my bulk folder and have never seen them. Kelly

Tue, 9 May 2006 18:54:05 -0700 (PDT)If you have sent photos since yesterday, I still have not recieved them. If you could just print them up and throw them in the snail mail, I would appreciate it. Kelly

Tue, 9 May 2006 20:57:40 -0500

don't worry i am going to take new ones
your cages are being resumed tomorrow or thursday again also

Sat, 20 May 2006 20:04:21 -0700 (PDT)Full week has passed, wondering when I will get some photos....as none have arrived via snail mail or e-mail.

Mon, 22 May 2006 11:33:14 -0700 (PDT)Still haven't heard back from you. I would like to see photos of what has been completed. If they are not coming through via e-mail (although all my "spam" mail goes to a "bulk" folder that I look through), then they need to be printed up and put in the regular snail mail. Let me know if you have sent them already, or if you intend to.

Tue, 23 May 2006 11:18:06 -0700 (PDT)Okay, still haven't heard from you. At this point, I'm not sure what to do. I will be putting this on the fauna classifieds BOI....I will include all the e-mails exchanged between us. If you have any that I have missed, then you are welcome to post them, cause I know I am missing a couple from the very, very beginning of all of this. You said you wouldn't ruin your reputation over 6 thousand dollars....all I want at this point is for you to ship all but one of the 8-foot cages or send me my money back. Since you haven't responded to my last couple e-mails and I haven't heard from you in awhile, I figure I don't have much in the way of options. Kelly

Tue, 23 May 2006 13:31:52 -0500 have been responding and you have never once called, i always have my phone listed on every email
I will be over at the storage unit tomorrow to get some pics, most of the cages are buried with you not knowing what you were going to do on things. The cages will be done and shipped to you that is not the point, one minute you want this the next you want this and then don't hear from you and now i have been trying to help you with your unfortunate event and then i start to get blasted, not very fair i don't think. I had them at one point loaded and ready to go to a reptile store on consignment with him cause you said you wanted to sell them, find another cage company to do that on my nickel getting them up there and stuff.

If you want to put stuff on the BOI go right ahead that is your right. I have been working with you and your many different scenrios that you wanted to do

Tue, 23 May 2006 13:34:26 -0500

send me your phone number and i will call you since you never give me yours if you want to discuss things

Tue, 23 May 2006 13:46:39 -0500

give me a call i have another idea
i can ship the 4 footers and 6 footers out next week
it would take two different skids for the full order anyways you just get the ones that are done now and then when the 8 are done then ship those

Wed, 24 May 2006 10:35:12 -0700 (PDT)I have not called because I would rather keep everything in writing. Ship whatever you can then.

As far as my not knowing what I was going to do...well, I was still waiting for a response from you. I was trying to come up with things that were acceptable for you to do. Everything I say, you tell me you can't do. You say that one minute I want this and another minute I want that. Well, that is not the necessarily the case. Everything I ask for, you say can't happen.

And I am really not sure why you would put off working on them if your stance is simply that I will pay you this or I will pay that. I have sent nearly $6000 to you. You didn't need all of that money for materials. Some of it went to labor. And the way I look at it, when you told me the 8-foot cages were half done awhile ago, all you had to do was not build any more (and I did ask you to specify what "half done" meant....be it that 2 of the 4 were done or if all 4 had been started and were only half way completed...and you never responded to that either).

At this point, I think it is a lot of mis-communication. But what I have been asking for is that you send 11 of the 12 cages to me. Do not build, or finish, or whatever (1) one of the 8'x4'x18" w/dividers. And even if this cage was started, you are looking at solid sheets of material that could easily be cut down and have smaller cages built out of them with very little waste. Standard sizes on your website do include 18" cages and the top and bottom of the cage would each be a full sheet. So I really cannot understand what the issue would be with using the money that I already paid you from that one cage (at least $750) and ship the remaining cages out (be it on one skid or two). And then you would be done with me and never have to hear from me again....unless of course there was some serious damage during shipment. But I am praying that doesn't happen.

Ball is in your court.

Wed, 24 May 2006 13:20:03 -0500

they have been started, cut, routed and finished just a matter of putting pieces together and then welding them. I will ship the 4 footers and 6 footers out end of next week or beginning of the following week

Thu, 1 Jun 2006 12:01:49 -0700 (PDT)Did you ship the 4 and 6 footers out yet?

Thu, 1 Jun 2006 14:31:10 -0500

end of this week or begining of next is what i said
I have to ge things squared away with our new loading dock

Fri, 9 Jun 2006 13:32:47 -0700 (PDT)So did the cages go out this week? When should I expect them?

Sun, 11 Jun 2006 15:27:40 -0700 (PDT)Haven't heard back from you...did the cages go out last week or not?

Sun, 11 Jun 2006 17:36:59 -0500

no not yet waiting on trucking company to quote then u pay it then ship it unless you have a trucking account to use

Sun, 11 Jun 2006 17:38:20 -0500

Send me your address again so i can forward it to them again so they take care of it for surely tomorrow

Mon, 12 Jun 2006 09:45:08 -0700 (PDT)you still have not managed to get any proof to me that these cages actually exist. I will not send more money. You promised me photos of what had been completed. You said you e-mailed them to me twice. They never showed up in my inbox or in my bulk folder. Asked you to snail mail them to me, you said you were going to take new pictures....still have not recieved pictures. 6 months and $6000 in the hole later, I am not pleased to say the least. I told to send all but 1 of the 8-foot cages, it would be done, you would never have to hear from me again. You are not willing or have not been able, up to this point, to provide proof of the cages, and I am not willing to send more money. My address is on your payments from PayPal.

Mon, 12 Jun 2006 18:27:15 -0500

well i am sorry i do have a family and can't jump when you say so
I did send them a couple times
what do you want me to do send pics of stacks of white custom cages that are in my storage unit and then you are going to say how do i know they are mine type crap now too
I want these out of my storage unit don't worry

Mon, 12 Jun 2006 18:48:48 -0500

i will have pics for you tomorrow when i have a day off to go over there

Thu, 15 Jun 2006 15:15:13 -0500

I will sending pics shortly I have to resize them they were sent back again so i went and took new ones this morning

Mon, 19 Jun 2006 10:20:33 -0500

sorry took so long dealing with sick kids (pictures were attached to this message).

Sun, 2 Jul 2006 08:20:42 -0700 (PDT)Okay, well, got the photos. However, I still am not in the position of interest to send you another grand for them. So I still ask that you ship 11 of the 12 out with the price the remaining cage.

Sun, 2 Jul 2006 16:10:19 -0500

well i don't pay for shipping so I will have to get the shipping paid for or I will ship COD to where then my discount does not apply (62%)

Sun, 2 Jul 2006 17:15:12 -0500

you can pay the shipping company direct if you want
I will give you there info and contact person if you want

Mon, 3 Jul 2006 09:18:32 -0700 (PDT)Here is the thing, you are the one who broke contract. 6-8 weeks is not 6-8 months. I don't even need all the cages at this point. So I will post this incident on fauna classifieds with all the details I can think of. I would prefer to just get my money back from you....but would have been willing to take the 11 cages. I really don't think that too many folks can look at all the e-mails that have taken place and believe that you would be someone they wanted to do business with. I'm sure you'll lose a lot more than shipping in the long run...and actually, you would not have even lost the shipping, because you made a $3000 profit. I am pretty unhappy about the whole situation, and I'll make sure that I pass along the information about my experience.

Mon, 3 Jul 2006 12:56:10 -0500

go for it i am not to worried cause we did work with you and changing your mind for whatever reasons and now that is what we can do you just let me know if you would like to have us put you in contact with the shipping company or not

Mon, 3 Jul 2006 12:57:08 -0500

alot of the wait was you also with having the floors done in your house and then the split up of you and your hubby or bf or whatever

Mon, 7 Aug 2006 09:06:20 -0700 (PDT)Just wondering what your intentions are with my $5800. Please let me know as I would either like to recieve 11 of the 12 cages or my money back, in full.

Mon, 7 Aug 2006 12:10:24 -0500

We need to do something by the end of the month on these cages

we could send you the 6 footers and 4 footers at our cost for keeping all the 8 footers

resell the cages and there will be a restocking fee of 20%, refund would be forwarded to you after the cages are sold

Tue, 8 Aug 2006 00:11:53 -0700 (PDT)Would still prefer to get 11 of the 12...the cost of shipping will easily be covered by the 12th cage.

Tue, 8 Aug 2006 04:57:14 -0500

shipping costs go up everytime gas does
shipping with the 8 footers would be 3 8 foot pallets

Tue, 8 Aug 2006 04:57:56 -0500

if you check things out also on the terms page there has been a storage fee also unless we can figure something out


Tue, 8 Aug 2006 11:25:05 -0700 (PDT)Well, then you added that to your terms page since the order was placed. I went over your terms page at that time, and there were no storage fees listed. Figure out how to make something happen. There is no reason that the 8-foot cages could not be stacked on one 8-foot skid.

Tue, 8 Aug 2006 13:28:17 -0500

sure they could but then you are looking at oversized charges you can't go more than 76" high and 48" wide and 96" long and we don't put the cages right to the end unless you want the chance of forklifts hitting them, we put edge guards and Styrofoam and cardboard lining the whole skid so no damage happens and the shipping companies recommend 3 inches in from each side to insure no damage

Tue, 8 Aug 2006 13:41:53 -0500

well I am not going to pay the shipping only keeping back one cage sorry I have a quote coming and it is up there
I can probably get it on two skids if I pushed it here is one quote

u can go to www.freightquote.com that is where the quotes come from
now would be less if you had loading dock to ship to but that is what I got


Carrier Name Est. Business
Days in Transit Cost-savings
Options Total Charges
Door-to-Door Make
Selection
Roadway Express 5 View options $1,184.81 Select
USF Holland 6+ N/A $1,274.10 Select

16668903


Tue, 8 Aug 2006 17:39:54 -0700 (PDT)Okay, then hold (1) of the 8-footers with divider and one 6-footer with divider....what I paid for those 2 cages is over those shipping quotes.

Tue, 8 Aug 2006 19:41:40 -0500

sorry 6 are all done and was waiting on the eights till you totally decided

Tue, 8 Aug 2006 19:44:31 -0500

the eights are all routed but waiting on you and the 6s and 4s are done and waiting

Wed, 9 Aug 2006 05:18:56 -0500

that quote also was for 2 skids which I don't think I can get it on I physically drew it up last night and going to take 2 big skids and one at least 6 foot skid also

Thu, 10 Aug 2006 12:05:17 -0700 (PDT)Well, then lets figure out what is going to have to go on each skid. I still really need at least 2 of the 8-footers. Would be happiest with 3 of the 8-footers. Need all of the 4-footers. Need at least 2 of the 6-footers. I also thought you said there wouldn't be much difference between shipping them constructed or not....now I'm assuming that it would be cheaper to ship the 8-footers flat.

Thu, 10 Aug 2006 14:09:21 -0500

the odd sizes you ordered are part of the issue and then with me giving you 4 free 4 footers that added to it too

Thu, 10 Aug 2006 12:15:26 -0700 (PDT)You didn't give me four free-footers. You offered 1 free 4-footer...and I still paid for all the add-ons for it. You didn't say whether it would be cheaper to ship the 8-footers flat....I can't see how it would not be

Thu, 10 Aug 2006 15:22:26 -0500

yeah I gave you 4 free four footers go back and look at the emails and I have it written on the work order when I offered that to you and yes you did pay for the extra stuff with those

Thu, 10 Aug 2006 15:23:29 -0500

there is not a good way to make those knockdown with them being so deep without alot of extra reinforcing to it and screwing together that big of cage and stacking I don't know

Thu, 10 Aug 2006 18:16:42 -0700 (PDT)So here are the e-mails that we exchanged....we were both wrong...the discount was for 2 4-footers. But the total on here doesn't match what I sent. I added up all the payments and I recall that it was around the $5800 mark....but the 3% from paypal was only about $150. (attached and sent the e-mails to him about the 2 free 4-foot cages...so we were both wrong on the number)

Mon, 14 Aug 2006 12:01:53 -0700 (PDT)Haven't heard back from you since I sent the copy of the e-mail about only 2 of the 4-footers being free. Are you going to start building the 8-footers now?

Mon, 14 Aug 2006 14:09:57 -0500

would you make up your mind whether to do the whole order or not? or I can work on getting them sold for you
I have a reptile store that is ready to sell them

Mon, 14 Aug 2006 13:43:06 -0700 (PDT)I told you that I would like to get all of the 4-footers, 3 of the 6-footers, and 3 of the 8-footers. The store can sell the 1 6-footer and 1 8-footer and that should be more than enough to cover the shipping expenses that you sent to me. Plus the fact that you yourself said that you get a pretty good discount.

Thu, 24 Aug 2006 18:12:17 -0700 (PDT)Still haven't heard back from you....this is the last e-mail I sent. (see above for last e-mail)

Thu, 24 Aug 2006 20:38:10 -0500

either you are covering all the shipping or not, I am not covering any shipping and the storage fees are getting up there i have no problem building all of the tanks and sending you everything but i am not going to cover any shipping with you reducing your order. I have held off on the eight footers cause one point you thought you didn't want any of the cages and wanted me to try to sell them, I had a reptile store ready to sell them and then you wanted some of the cages but not all and then you wanted all but one or two and i am to expect to pay the shipping. Storage fees are 2% of the cage order and obviously i am flexible on that but once again i am not going to swallow some of the caging for me paying the shipping. If you want i do have the reptile store willing to sell all your cages and when they sell you can have the $$$ sent to you from him and if you would like to talk to him i will gladly give you his contact info and he has been a retail reptile shop for 28 years

Thu, 24 Aug 2006 18:43:05 -0700 (PDT)I really don't understand what the issue is. Send a couple of the cages to your buddy to sell, get the money, ship me the cages....And NO, there was no mention of ANY storage fees posted on your website when I placed the order...which wouldn't have been an issue anyway if the cages had been built in the 6-8 weeks that YOU originally stated.

Thu, 24 Aug 2006 20:50:08 -0500

at one point you told me to not worry and slow production cause your floor wasn't done
and then your house wasn't ready
and then you were getting divorce and to just sell everything
then you wanted all the cages but the eights
then you wanted all the cages and a couple of the eight but couldn't figure out which ones you wanted
then you wanted the cages and only a couple sixes and a couple eights
now you want them all minus one six and one eight

it is kind of all or nothing, I have already had to rent a extra storage unit for these with everything going on and storing plastic that is all routed for your eights that can't be used on anything but those size of cages and most people don't want eights that are that big. I am sorry that you had something bad happen with splitting up and trust me i understand i went through a BAD divorce but to make it look like i haven't bent over backwards when you had different ideas come about is not a fair statement.

Thu, 24 Aug 2006 20:51:42 -0500

and yes it has been on there since the webpage has been put together that was something we put on there ALONG time ago based on a gentleman walking away from an order for over a year and then having us ship them then after he got things back on track for whatever reason

Thu, 24 Aug 2006 19:16:47 -0700 (PDT) What I have been trying to do is come up with a variety of solutions that could please us both....everytime I make a suggestion, all you say is that it can't happen. I'm done. I really am. Tonight, I am extremely irritated with this whole thing. Yes, I told you to take your time originally...that was many, many months ago. I guess I kicked my own ass with that statement, I should have just told you to get them done....but I wanted them done right. And now you haven't even worked on them for months saying that you were waiting for me to decide what I am going to do. I wasn't deciding anything, I was trying to come up with a solution that we could both work with.....obviously that isn't something that can happen.

Thu, 24 Aug 2006 21:47:59 -0500

I have no problem getting you the cages and no problem finishing them shortly but last you said was you didn't know and then the holdup of which ones you wanted and which ones you didn't want
I have no problem finishing them and sending them to you but i won't be able to cover shipping and will have to be through me on my account for my discount or can arrange to set up a time to talk to my shipping company and just pay them, either way is fine with me. Or i can have the Reptile store in the Minneapolis area sell them and refund the money and have him send it directly to you also

Thu, 24 Aug 2006 22:32:32 -0500

here is the best I can do
send you the 4 foot cages, 3 six footers and 2 eight footers

with the storage fees and shipping costs (we will ship out of our pocket)

or

4 footers
4 six footers
2 footers

we pay shipping coupled with storage fees that is even



Thu, 24 Aug 2006 21:13:41 -0700 (PDT)What is the reason behind not shipping 3 of the 8-footers? I can cut back to 2 of the 6-footers and all 4 4-footers and 3 of the 8-footers. That would be great. That would make me happy. That is $750 for the 8-footer that I paid out. And at least $500 for each of those 6-footers.....that should cover everything. If that will work, I'll tell you exactly which ones I need

Fri, 25 Aug 2006 00:32:22 -0500

the sixes are odd and will be harder to sell also
I am looking at total dollar value more so than anything

Fri, 25 Aug 2006 00:36:28 -0500

how am I cutting back 3 of the 8 footers when there is no mention of that anywhere

Fri, 25 Aug 2006 00:39:12 -0500

have no interest in the two taller 6 footers because they are an odd size not to mention would be a hard sell with all the options you had added

it was talk of all 4 four footers, all 4 six footers and 1 eight footer
or
all 4 four footers, 3 six footers and 2 eight footers


Fri, 25 Aug 2006 00:42:01 -0500

4 six footers
4 four footers
1 eight footer

I can ship that next week almost or beginning of following week

Fri, 25 Aug 2006 09:31:11 -0700 (PDT)I would like to have the 2 taller 6-footers at least. I need to get 3 of the 8 footers....and the 4 4-footers. The 2 shorter 6-footers seem quite reasonable for any snake set-ups. If you hold back 3 of the 8-footers, then I am losing $2300, which is not reasonable for me.

Fri, 25 Aug 2006 11:56:32 -0500

shipping is not going to be cheap and the only way to get shipping under control is the 8 and 6 footers on one skid and the fours on the other

Fri, 25 Aug 2006 11:58:06 -0500

then we can do 2 eights and 2 six footers and all the fours

Fri, 25 Aug 2006 12:37:31 -0500

with 2 eights, 2 six footers and the fours would be two pallets

Fri, 25 Aug 2006 12:42:16 -0500

give me a jingle and lets finish out the final details or send me your number and I will call you
I think we are close on things

Fri, 25 Aug 2006 10:45:02 -0700 (PDT)scroll down a few messages, that is less than what you told me about 4 messages ago. you told me all the 4 footers, 3 six footers and 2 8-footers...... .

Fri, 25 Aug 2006 10:46:16 -0700 (PDT)I'd rather just keep it all in writing. You keep changing what you say you are going to do. And every time you write, you are cutting the number of cages totally.

Fri, 25 Aug 2006 12:52:58 -0500

you can record the conversation i just want us both on the same page with things
I talked to my shipping company again and i have a proposal

Fri, 25 Aug 2006 10:55:26 -0700 (PDT)Okay...what is the proposal....just type it up. From what I can gather from the cages you are holding back, you are trying to hold back a minimum of $2000....some of the numbers were closer to $2500 though. Kind of curious as to why that is.

Fri, 25 Aug 2006 12:59:20 -0500

notice i haven't posted your comments about how you have told us to slow down on the build and stuff either and the delays and how we have worked with you on things also everyone just got a bit sidetracked and now just time to deal with it and move on

Fri, 25 Aug 2006 11:09:56 -0700 (PDT)Correct, but I did post that I told you to take your time initially. There was absolutely no mention of storage fees until this week. And I can't understand at all why you are trying to hold back $2000-$2500 worth of cages when the shipping quote that you sent was for $1300. Not sure what you have worked with me on. All you ever told me was that this or that couldn't happen. This is the first time in 7 months that you have actually started to work with me. You also told me that you get a good discount through your shipping company...so I'm still wondering why you are trying to hold back the amount of cages.

So what is the proposal that had to do with the shipping company?

Fri, 25 Aug 2006 13:24:17 -0500

here is what i got

4 four footers
2 six footers (two tall ones)
2 8 footers (any of your choosing)

we will eat the storage fees and all the shipping.

it is going to take 2 pallets to ship this and let me know

Fri, 25 Aug 2006 11:31:24 -0700 (PDT)How are you eating the shipping? It looks like I'm eating it here. The 2 8-footers are $1500 and the other 2 short 6-footers were $450 apiece...so that is $2400 when the quote you sent for shipping was under $1300....so where is the other $1100 going?

Fri, 25 Aug 2006 13:34:53 -0500

sorry it was suppose to be 3 six footers and what you don't seem to mention is that shipping was never included in this whole thing and haven't mentioned anything about that and my shipping guy is ready to chat with you about things

Fri, 25 Aug 2006 11:52:53 -0700 (PDT)It was mentioned in the opening statement, that the shipping charge would be $600-800 ish. If there is anything that you would like to mention, please go post it. I'd like everyone to have both sides of the story. However, I do need to know why the shipping quote was for under $1300 and you are holding back $2000 worth of cages?

Let's make this happen: 3 8-footers, 2 tall 6-footers, and the 4-footers. That is $1650 that I paid to you worth of cages I won't be getting.....I can live with that, and that will cover the shipping. That will be the end of it.



That is the end of the all e-mails that were exchanged until we moved it onto the BOI.


.

 

[TripleMoonsExotic]

Well this is a no-no...

Fri, 18 Nov 2005 00:26:55 -0600

[email protected] is the paypal account. Please add the 3% paypal charge

 

[GuinnyOne]

There were several things that I became more keenly aware of when I was going through all the e-mails.

One is that he gave me the $600-800 shipping "quote" the day after I finished ordering (and he put together the new total price with the 4 foot cages included).

Another issue that made me very uncomfortable was the whole sending photos incident. He said it would be no problem at all to send photos and then it took him forever to finally do so. When he did finally, he said he had to "take more".....but I do not believe he ever took any photos initially.

I know it is a lot to read through all those e-mails. I tried to make them as easy to read through as possible with different text and only including the date and time stamp. But I think that there are a lot of valuable information included in all those e-mails that folks were missing before.

I don't feel like the bad guy here. I don't feel like I did anything wrong. I feel like things went a little awry, and then Matt wouldn't even respond to things anymore.

You can see at the very end of what I posted was when he really finally started talking to me about shipping a portion of the order, and that was after I posted here.

If anyone has any suggestions after reading through the e-mails, I would sure be interested.