Bad Guy Mike Matson of Mike's Phat Frog is a scammer !!

[jrsexotics]

Rick I see that you are awake and viewing this. Let's hear why you don't want your own animals back and to be done with this? You can resell them elsewhere....


I'll be back in a few hours. I have a baseball game to play this morning

 

[juliasara]

How is it his fault? You agreed to pay by a specific date and didn't keep your word. Why should he have to keep waiting? What if he was counting on the money? Put yourself in his shoes, wouldnt you be upset if someone agreed to pay you by a specific date and didnt? It's not chump change either, $2250 is a lot of money!! And the date has come and gone, then the second date you gave has come and gone and you've made no effort what so ever to pay him. I'm sure if you made a few small payments in good faith maybe he wouldn't be so upset. He shipped the frogs when he agreed to, he kept up his end of the deal, I fail to see how ANY of this is his fault?

 

[312Herps]

Laura B I believe the main topic of this thread is the frogs is it not?




This thread isn't about an x or other info that rick post.

Wrong , the main topic of this thread is to educate the reptile community on the misdoings of a con man in our industry. We don't have direct authorities to arrest people who have bad business ethics and like to scam on people they believe they'd easily get over on so we use this forum to help raise awareness of trashy breeders in our community . If not people like you would make this a completely intolerable hobby. I believe not only was Mike being dishonest from go of his intentions, but in the manner he is trying to blame everyone else and back out of the deal I believe he bred some of these animals as it has been a topic previously of Mike's frog breeding being ethical as far as injections used to speed up the breeding process prior to the animal being bred and even the age not being appropriate and him breeding them anyway. In post #36 Mike jokes about the frog he says became ill a few weeks after arriving " He just randomly broke out Damn STDs " , but if I sent him virgin frogs why would he say they were STDs unless he bred them I have 3 photos of each frog I sent him just incase something like this were to happen. I gave Mike an extension not once , but twice and he hadn't sent ANY payment at all after stating I would initially be paid in full by June18th with several payments being sent prior to then. I yet to receive anything. Now he wants to send possibly contaminated frogs back to me where I no longer have enclosures for them.

Another interesting part is Mike wants to push the whole " any breeder would take their animal back" , these were originally bought from Mike and all 100% healthy according to his statements when they arrived back to him , and now half dead and mostly sick animals are trying to be forced on me . 100% not acceptable.

Furthermore , Mike wants to believe he kept me in the loop about everything when in fact this couldn't be further from the truth. If you look at the dates of the communication it is obvious that the only initiation for communication is made by Myself to Mike. Not one time did Mike reach out to me to "keep me in the loop" about anything having to do with the frogs or the balance he owed. So please refrain from stating that "Mike kept Rick in the loop the whole time" and realize Mike ran Rick in a loop the whole time.

 

[Bobby Douglass]

Why shold he have to take the frogs back? You agreed to a deal and now you want to back out of it, he expected to get the money and be done with the frogs. What if he threw out all of the tanks or whatever he kept them in? So because you made a deal you couldn't keep he has to go out and buy all new tanks? That doesn't seem fair! What if he put a deposit down on the geckos he said he wanted and agreed to pay them off by the day you were supposed to pay him? Now he either pulls the money out of you know where to keep the deal he made or backs out of the deal, loses his deposit and looks like a bad guy. I don't know him and have no idea if that is what I'd really going on but those are just possibilities I thought of. My point is it may not just be as simple as him just taking the frogs back and honestly I don't think he should have to. You made a deal, you have the frogs so you need to pay him for them yesterday!

Bingo! If he doesn't want to take them back he shouldn't have to. I understand Mike is in a tough place but he shouldn't try to force Rick to take the frogs back that he agreed to buy. He should just take his lumps for being late and get his money asap.

 

[juliasara]

Like I already said, I can see a few reasons why he doesn't want to take thme back. What if he sold or threw out all of the enclosures? He would have to buy all new enclosures for all of the frogs. Plus if he were to take them back he'd have to quarentine them for at least 30-60 days to ensure they didn't catch anything while they weren't in his possession, then when they are out of qt he can start to try to sell them. That means he will have to care for them and won't get any money for them for at least 2-3 months. If you never agreed to buy them and had them shipped to you he could sell them to someone else without having to wait at least 30 days. All your responses make it seem like you feel like you are the victim here and he is the bad guy. As someone looking at this situation from the outside I really don't see how he has done anything wrong. YOU are the one who hasn't kept your word. It sucks that your stock died but that isn't his problem at all. You made a deal and it's your responsibility to pay him when you say you will no matter what. Sell whatever you can to pay him if that's what you have to do. IMO it was a really bad decision to buy $2250 worth of frogs when you can't even afford your warehouse rent. The responsible thing to do is pay your debt before buying more animals. They are living creatures that are completely dependant on you and if you cant even afford the rent and to pay your debts how will you pay for the vet if something happens to one or more of your animals?

 

[jrsexotics]

Like I already said, I can see a few reasons why he doesn't want to take thme back. What if he sold or threw out all of the enclosures? He would have to buy all new enclosures for all of the frogs. Plus if he were to take them back he'd have to quarentine them for at least 30-60 days to ensure they didn't catch anything while they weren't in his possession, then when they are out of qt he can start to try to sell them. That means he will have to care for them and won't get any money for them for at least 2-3 months. If you never agreed to buy them and had them shipped to you he could sell them to someone else without having to wait at least 30 days. All your responses make it seem like you feel like you are the victim here and he is the bad guy. As someone looking at this situation from the outside I really don't see how he has done anything wrong. YOU are the one who hasn't kept your word. It sucks that your stock died but that isn't his problem at all. You made a deal and it's your responsibility to pay him when you say you will no matter what. Sell whatever you can to pay him if that's what you have to do. IMO it was a really bad decision to buy $2250 worth of frogs when you can't even afford your warehouse rent. The responsible thing to do is pay your debt before buying more animals. They are living creatures that are completely dependant on you and if you cant even afford the rent and to pay your debts how will you pay for the vet if something happens to one or more of your animals?

1st- The behind payments on my rent occurred after the frogs arrived from Rick. I lost over 10,000.00 in animals.

2nd- I never said I would not pay him. I told rick that it would be a few weeks more.

3rd- If he had other animals purchased or on hold and was waiting for this 2250.00 maybe he should have thought about that before threatening me with and attorney and to freeze my bank accounts.

4- His enclosures have not been thrown away. They were kept in a rack system. I know that because I guided his entire keeping and care of these animals.

5-What happens when you cannot pay your car or house payment? It goes back to the lender correct? I could not pay for these animals at the time that he wanted so, I am sending them back.

There will be no paying for these animals period. They will be on there way back this week.

6- NONE of these animals were big enough to produce. They all were produced mid to late last year. Not near the year to year an half they need to be to produce

 

[jrsexotics]

Rick injections have nothing to do with breeding a frog at a younger age... So, please educate yourself on that. Lhrh has no effect on young animals that are not mature.

So, how do you see my intentions as being dishonest from the beginning?

I never argued about paying for these frogs!!! I told you it would be a few weeks or I can ship them back. You escalated it and turned it into threats. Not me pal.

You shot yourself in the foot....

These frogs will be back to you this week. I will post the tracking info on here as you have blocked your Facebook account from me after your threats.

I don't need to nor do I have to deal with this. I gave you the options that I was able to do at the time and you chose for me...

Wrong , the main topic of this thread is to educate the reptile community on the misdoings of a con man in our industry. We don't have direct authorities to arrest people who have bad business ethics and like to scam on people they believe they'd easily get over on so we use this forum to help raise awareness of trashy breeders in our community . If not people like you would make this a completely intolerable hobby. I believe not only was Mike being dishonest from go of his intentions, but in the manner he is trying to blame everyone else and back out of the deal I believe he bred some of these animals as it has been a topic previously of Mike's frog breeding being ethical as far as injections used to speed up the breeding process prior to the animal being bred and even the age not being appropriate and him breeding them anyway. In post #36 Mike jokes about the frog he says became ill a few weeks after arriving " He just randomly broke out Damn STDs " , but if I sent him virgin frogs why would he say they were STDs unless he bred them I have 3 photos of each frog I sent him just incase something like this were to happen. I gave Mike an extension not once , but twice and he hadn't sent ANY payment at all after stating I would initially be paid in full by June18th with several payments being sent prior to then. I yet to receive anything. Now he wants to send possibly contaminated frogs back to me where I no longer have enclosures for them.

Another interesting part is Mike wants to push the whole " any breeder would take their animal back" , these were originally bought from Mike and all 100% healthy according to his statements when they arrived back to him , and now half dead and mostly sick animals are trying to be forced on me . 100% not acceptable.

Furthermore , Mike wants to believe he kept me in the loop about everything when in fact this couldn't be further from the truth. If you look at the dates of the communication it is obvious that the only initiation for communication is made by Myself to Mike. Not one time did Mike reach out to me to "keep me in the loop" about anything having to do with the frogs or the balance he owed. So please refrain from stating that "Mike kept Rick in the loop the whole time" and realize Mike ran Rick in a loop the whole time.

 

[Bobby Douglass]

There will be no paying for these animals period. They will be on there way back this week.

I didn't think you were really a bad guy but you're changing my mind. You owe him money, not frogs.

 

[Shadow Dragoons]

All I see is excuses from Mike, you made a deal mike, its time to deal with it. You have had multiple animals die in your care, and I would not allow you to send animals to me after your own proclaimed losses. Not to mention before you blocked me on Facebook you made several claims about being a one man band.. Note you have employees? Your whole story is one poorly patched together excuse after another.

 

[Lucille]

under article § 2-326. Sale on Approval and Sale or Return; Consignment Sales and Rights of Creditors. there are specific stipulations as to where I have to accept the return prior to him sending it which I will not accept on any terms.

Where did you even get this, it is not applicable to this situation. The frogs were not sold on consignment, and there was no return agreement.
When there is no agreement, UCC stipulations are used, that is what it is for, but you can just look around and pick out something you think sounds good and might apply.

 

[312Herps]

That's what I was advised by legal aid to respond. I'm not with them so I can not debate on legal technicality with you, but thank you for your input Lucille I appreciate it.

 

[Pasodama]

Pathetic how neither Mike, or Rick, care for the welfare of these frogs. Both willing to allow them to perish enclosed in a box! My heart breaks, at the possible fate of these poor critters, and it angers me as well!

That said, I have not, yet, seen any indication that Mike gained possession of animals, that he never had any intentions of paying for, nor any indication that he blew Rick off by a lack of communication.

I have also not, yet, seen any proof that this situation makes Mike a scammer.
Mike has offered the animals back if Rick cannot hold out, a little longer, for payment. Mike also offered, along with that, to pay for shipping and for the frogs that had died while in his care. Mike has, also, maintained communication when contacted. Things that a scammer would not do.

If what Mike says is true, and I have no reason (at this time) to believe it isn't, Mike did not foresee, at time of agreement, that he was going to, suddenly, lose $10,000 worth of tadpoles &/or froglets. Am sure he did not want that to happen either.
It appears that he counted on the income, from those lost tadpoles/froglets, to pay Rick.

Without that income, Mike appeared to, still, wish to pay Rick but had to come up with another method in order to pay. A method that, despite what is expected, may not occur in the time frame that either party wishes/thinks it would/will.

Unless Mike gets a loan, which I have doubts that he could, Rick only has two choices:
1. Accept the frogs back along with some cash.
2. Give Mike more time to come up with the funds by his either selling some current breeding stock &/or selling youngsters once they are old/big enough.
After all, blood cannot be squeezed from a turnip.
However, this requires cooperation and maturity.

...

 

[312Herps]

I'm not going to put my multi thousand dollar gecko colony at risk by accepting high probability infected frogs which were healthy when I sent them out ( AS STATED BY MIKE )and weren't said to have any type of infection until 3 weeks AFTER their arrival which I no longer have enclosures for because he just decided to back out of a deal.
Deb , that was a cheap shot you took at me with the first statement you decide to make , but unfortunately the care for the safety and well being of my animals at home is precisely why I won't take those frogs back. You definitely seem to have a bias, but please don't let that skew you your perception of what's really going on here. I'm obviously not the only one who sees it this way, but thanks for your input.

 

[Shadow Dragoons]

If he in fact sold his enclosures and bought gecko enclosures it would be irresponsible to take back 15+ frogs if he could not house them properly so yes i agree it was a cheap shot

 

[Lucille]

Unless Mike gets a loan, which I have doubts that he could, Rick only has two choices:
1. Accept the frogs back along with some cash.
2. Give Mike more time to come up with the funds by his either selling some current breeding stock &/or selling youngsters once they are old/big enough.
After all, blood cannot be squeezed from a turnip.
However, this requires cooperation and maturity.

...

 

[Pasodama]

I'm not going to put my multi thousand dollar gecko colony at risk by accepting high probability infected frogs which were healthy when I sent them out ( AS STATED BY MIKE )and weren't said to have any type of infection until 3 weeks AFTER their arrival which I no longer have enclosures for because he just decided to back out of a deal.
Deb , that was a cheap shot you took at me with the first statement you decide to make , but unfortunately the care for the safety and well being of my animals at home is precisely why I won't take those frogs back. You definitely seem to have a bias, but please don't let that skew you your perception of what's really going on here. I'm obviously not the only one who sees it this way, but thanks for your input.

That was not directed AT you.
Obviously, since you won't accept them (and I am not say you HAVE to), Mike shouldn't send them.
I do understand why you do not wish to have them returned.
It just truly upsets me when there is a possible jeopardy to the frogs' welfare. Perhaps lending to my coming off too strong, or with a poor choice in wording, in my initial paragraph.

To be clear, I have no bias because I do not know Mike, nor have I ever done business with him, nor have I ever communicated with him. Actually, ptetty much the same goes with you.

 

[AppEcto]

What a pathetic excuse. Even if there was a likelihood of frogs transmitting a bacterial infection to geckos (which there isn't), the frogs could easily be quarantined. Even if enclosures have been filled or sold, a quick trip to Walmart and anyone can have a lot of gladware or Rubbermaid containers for very little money. There were problems on both ends, but Rick comes off looking much worse in my eyes after seeing how both parties have conducted themselves here.

 

[Shadow Dragoons]

So because mike backed out Rick should have to go to a local store fork out even more money to care for frogs he already babied on being sold... Makes do much sense... You know since Mike's problems are some good ricks Responsibility's

 

[Shadow Dragoons]

He already banked on being sold*** makes so much sense** hate this phone sometimes

 

[Pasodama]

Wanted to add that the sending, of the frogs, could be prevented though.
However, that depends on Mike and You.