Mites and filth are free with Ray Goushaw Herpetological Breeding Research

[Mickey_TLK]

Again Im not here to defend Ray (I do not know him, and have never done business with him in any way).

That said, let me get this right, now because he has left town he is a bad guy? That again is going a bit extreme. This deal for all we know has only started and ended within the last week. Its HIGHLY likely that if he has flown anywhere the plans were made many weeks ago.

Now hes supposed to ship a box (that he himself may or may not have shipped) and cancell his trip to make sure the box went well?

Im not trying to split hairs with anyone here, but lets get real on some of theese statements. This guys living is based on his reptile business. While many of you guys are only private collectors, hobbiests, or breeders who do it part time. Atleast give the guy a bit of a benifit of a doubt before you completely fry him.

Would I have been happy in this instance with the snake and shipping NO

Would I have come here and complained.... I may very well have I have no issue with that.

Should this thread be pulled till Ray gets back .... No thats almost laughable. Next thing you know everyone who robs someone will claim vacation to get another week of robbing in (NOT THAT THAT IS WHAT RAY IS OR IS NOT DOING HERE, JUST A STATEMENT).

Again I agree this is a crap deal. But lets not make blanket statements that in reality are laughable to the people who deal with theese kinds of issues EVERY SINGLE DAY.

 

[shrap]

Mickey,

I agree 100%. That is why I said earlier that I have not condemned Ray in any way. Screw ups happen and it is how we resolve the screw ups that make it a good or bad deal.

The only problems I have had in this whole thread is with Scolaro's opinions, not Ray.

 

[Zoo Supply]

Treatments of imports

Ok, well guess my turn to take this a bit off the original subject.

I use Dr. Mark Wilson as my vet, most of you probably know or at least have heard of him.
He used to be Tom Crutchfield's vet. When he was there, he toldme that a treatment of monitor lizards that came through Crutchfield's place would cut the amount of mortalities by 70-90% depending on the species.

your arguement about rising costs just doesn't cut it. I talk to the guy that does the treating. He had it down to costing between 5 and 9 cents per animal!

I WILL TYPE THAT AGAIN IN CAPS:::::::: 5 AND 9 CENTS PER ANIMAL.

so lets do the math.
say for the sake of not doing bad math, you have a mortality rate of 50% overall in your import savannah monitors that come in. which I was told could even be an understatement on some shipments!

so fifty animals die, your cost imported is 5 bucks. so you have 500 dollars into that shipment, of which you lose 250 dollars. by spending even 10 cents per animal to treat them you have $5.10 into each one, now you have $510 into the shipment. You cut the loses by 70%. That means you are now losing 15 animals, a loss of $76.50. If anything it saves the importers money.

needless to say, like it was pointed out, this was supposedly a captive bred animal. so it should be parasite free to begin with.

TOM

 

[Dan Scolaro]

Shrap:

You don't know what you said, who you said it to, and why you said it, and where your going with this.

 

[shrap]

Dan, really dude, put the pipe down. Just put it down, dude.

 

[Dan Scolaro]

Shrap:

Well I never had a pipe before of after working for you for 20 years in the military.

 

[Mickey_TLK]

Shrap

No problem, just a bit paranoid that you were lumping me in by my voicing my opinion.

 

[Lucille]

I would really like to hear from the seller on this.

I do not have an opinion, yet, until I hear from him. I have to make a confession (this stays between y'all and me) in that some months ago I found mites on some of my snakes one day, I was *HORRIFIED* because I take care of my animals and consider myself a good pet owner.

I was SO horrified that I called a fellow Fauna member on the other side of the United States at 6AM for advice (because I had never seen a snake mite before), which he was nice enough to give. (Thank goodness for Fauna and the fine people in it).

Just a thought, that maybe, like they crept into my collection, they got into his? Could he possibly not have been aware? I treated and cleaned (I actually scrubbed the beejeezus outta everything cuz I was so shocked that I would have such a thing in my own home).

Like I said, there were other things going on here too, but still and all I would like to hear from the seller, especially if he is a seller with an honorable past.

It seems to me, and this is just my observation, that slimeballs leave a trail of slime and I am not hearing about slime in this particular case.

Maybe there is a good reason for all this although of course I do think that the shipping and all, done the way it was done must have been a shock and disappointment to the buyer.

 

[Mickey_TLK]

Tom

While I understand the actual costs of the meds would be minimal, I think your missing my point.

Can you honestly say that the importers are bringing theese animals in with the intention of sitting on them for weeks before even advertising them? Do you think they live in a bubble and they have total controll over when the animals come or go?

Ive been down there once, but been around long enough to grasp how this works. The second a shipment lands its getting picked through by the local jobbers or other importers for their share. Many of theese animals leave the same day they land at times. So now the importers are supposed to tell the jobbers... NOPE YOU CANT HAVE IT TODAY, COME BACK WHEN ITS BEEN TREATED? I just dont see it, thats giving them far to much credit for concern over the animal and not the dollar. And if that were the case, the whole import industry would be a much safer buy then it is, but it isnt.

So say they make it out of the box that first day without getting picked through. Im no expert by any means, but I believe proper parisite treatment takes a few courses over minimmum of a few days, if not a few weeks. So now you HONESTLY believe the importers are going to stick to that.

My point is this, Id rather someone be honest that an animal has not been treated for parisites then to lie and say they have. More importantly Id rather not get animals shot gunned full of meds on the chance they may have a parisite that med will cover. What are the honest chances a fecal was run on THAT animal? How about a follow up fecal to see that the meds have done the job and are no longer needed.

Im not saying that every time I see "treated for parisites" I DONT believe them, but more often then not I question it.

 

[Dennis1]

Vacation

I run a small business and maybe im not doing it right but when im not at work I can still be contacted by my employees
If i were to trust one of my employees to ship something somewhere and the CUSTOMER was not happy with the shipping and or product and then called my business and spoke to an employee and voiced the complaints
I would encourage the employee to call me on my cell if he didnt know what to do!
but i have rules in my business for just that case as well as many others
My employee does know what to do:GIVE A REFUND A.S.A.P
By saying you have to wait till i get back before you get a refund is just a COP-OUT and plain WRONG
Now im not saying he's a bad guy But this deal was not handled Professionally

And whoever thinks its O.K. to send extra pets (mites)without asking first MUST be completely out of their mind

 

[Jim O]

This was actually the second time that Dan said that Tim should remove his post:

I still insist that the buyer should remove his post, especially since the buyer is fully aware that the seller is on vacation and perhaps not near his computer to respond.

Yes, I got short with him. It bothers me when people say the same stupid thing twice.

Well Dan, for one thing, posts cannot be removed here by the author. Maybe you should study the TOS before you run your mouth.

Does he read the TOS? No, He gets all upset because I was mean to him. As Wes would say, you need to be a big boy to play in this sandbox (or something like that). Then he says he doesn't want to communicate with me "but" he proceeds to do just that. AND, AGAIN HE WANTS THE POST REMOVED

Jim: Your introduction in your last post was a bit offensive, so I do not wish to communicate with you on the matter and you also utilized my words of the smell of the poop to convey that my thought are that the buyers deal was not significant to him. I believe the buyer had a dealing with mites and overreacted and should do what he can to remove this post as it can be misconstrued by anyone, especially you, who have misconstrued my words.

Dan, here is the salient part of the TOS which you evidently still HAVE NOT READ:

YOU have to take responsibility and ownership of the words you post here. So take great care in how you craft your statements. Once you submit your message, it will be here PERMANENTLY, no matter what happens afterwards.

The full text can be found at http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/forums/showthread.php?t=8880

Now what we STILL have here is a mite infested snake shipped on FRIDAY not THURSDAY that came in a cricket box packed in a used, soiled pillow case that may not have even been cleaned after its last occupant. And we still have Dan defending all this and saying that Tim should remove his post. Any other questions?

 

[critical bill]

Dont you remember...

you told me you loved me baby. Baby baby baby baby ohhhh baby.

Back in the day a good qualude would have ended this arguement quickly. Split one guys and allow Ray to get back from vacation and post the facts about what transpired.

 

[pch101]

"While I agree that shipping an animal with external parisites is definately not a GOOD THING, I think were going a bit to far in saying the importers should treat every animal for internal parisites.

I would like to ask how one expects this to be accomplished without at minnimum rising import costs and slowing the process down. At maxim this could shut down all imports."

If that is what it takes, then so be it...

"Would I have been happy in this instance with the snake and shipping NO

Would I have come here and complained.... I may very well have I have no issue with that.

Should this thread be pulled till Ray gets back .... No thats almost laughable."

I agree with all of that.

 

[Tim Rash]

Your confused Dan....

Lets see were to start. I bought a healthy captive born sub-adult female blood python from Ray. I was shipped a snake with mites and with the worst packing I have ever seen in my life and I had to find out when to pick her up. There was no packing to help her from being hurt if the box fell or kicked as you said Dan. There was about 2 inchs of space between the box and the styrofoam. As for the bag for some reason you say Dan she pooped in it, no it was dry no poop no urates no wetness so she didn't pee I am sure something else had before I got it but not her. It stunk very bad you can see the stains in the picture of it. The heat pack was under her not taped to anything no newspaper or any other material around it. Do you have a clue how hot heat packs get Dan? He was in town when I bought her, he was in town when they took her to the airport, he was in town when I told him I was not happy, then all of a sudden he is out of the country when I say I want to send her back. I sent him all the pictures with the email. Yes I know how to ship animals and it will be alot better than the way it was shipped in the first place. Yes I did treat her for mites I don't know about you Dan maybe your into breeding mites but thats one hobby I will never have. Yes she will go to my Vet to fully check her out and he is one of the best Vets there is. She is a little underweight but not to bad. I don't know if she is feeding but I will have to wait till the mites are gone. As far as mites being no big deal do you not know mites can spread sickness throughout your collection if not caught Dan? I have kept reptiles for the last 20 years and never had a mite outbreak. I have no clue why yours does but to me its a big deal. Maybe you have a small collection Dan, but I have a rather expensive collection for being just a hobbyist and I don't want nothing running rampant in my collection. I have never heard of you Dan do I know you? I have no clue why you keep saying negative things about me. Seems a little fishy to me. So to wrap it up I am not happy with her or my experince this has been but I am sure she will end up staying here since I have not heard anything from this large company with so many workers. If someone else really shipped her I would fire that person without thinking twice.

Tim Rash

 

[Lucille]

Do you think it would do any good to email his business with a copy of this thread attached? Perhaps he would come and account for all this sooner. I would be disappointed if I received a snake like you did. I really think the seller needs to come forth and say something.

 

[Tim Rash]

I just did.
Tim

 

[The BoidSmith]

While I agree that shipping an animal with external parisites is definately not a GOOD THING, I think were going a bit to far in saying the importers should treat every animal for internal parisites.

I would like to ask how one expects this to be accomplished without at minnimum rising import costs and slowing the process down. At maxim this could shut down all imports.

Mickey,

Someone very well said that mites are supposed to be vectors for IBD. That alone in itself means that by all means ALL animals should be treated at least for external parasites before they are sent: a. to a Pet Store (where they infest other animals as well as feeder rodents) b. to a broker (who will in turn disseminate them through his clients) or c. to other hobbyists (which might infest their collections).

Diseases and parasites from foreign countries can come with ticks, mites, and internal parasites. That’s the reason why every time you enter the country through an airport you have to fill out a form stating if you have been in pasture, in contact with animals, close to animals, etc. If you say you have been in those places you have to remove your shoes and the USDA will disinfect them for you. Did you know that West Nile Virus, which is transmitted through the blood by the bite of a mosquito, is now endemic in the U.S.? Did you know it has cost several human lives already? It entered through airlines in NY, several years ago, with infected mosquitoes.

All imports could be shut down, I agree with you on that one. But not because of rising costs or slowing the process but because of the introduction of a foreign disease. Is it realistic to request treatment of all imports? Probably not. I’m not criticizing those that don’t do it, what I’m just saying is the system in place has become increasingly lax and as such dangerous.

Just to get back on topic. Although I’ve never bought from Ray I’m positive he will address this issue. This incident was more than likely “an odd accident” or if you will Murphy’s Law in action at its best. I agree with Mickey’s assessment in that the trip had nothing to do with this except for the fact that an employee other than Ray was the one that more than likely handled this shipment. Anyone that deals with imports is at the risk of receiving mites and ticks. What he has to be careful though is to make sure they don’t leave their facilities to avoid situations such as this.

Regards

 

[Dan Scolaro]

Tim:

OK, a bit more information, but based on all of this, somewhere and somehow there is a reasonable explanation for it.

Something tells me that the seller must have been in a hurry to get out of town and had someone else pick it, pack it, etc.

But even so, the man offered a full refund. I mean you obviously cannot ship it to him because he is perhaps on vacation with his family and such, and perhaps he closes shop when gone? We cannot fairly speculate to any of this and I hate to even make these statements as they are speculative.

And can and will he make it up to you for all your inconvenience? Of course he can, and of course he will. You know he has a good reputation and something out of the normal happened here, so I suggest to be patient and he will make good on this perhaps.

But after all this speculation on the BOI, who the heck would be in the mood to do so?

I do understand your frustration, however such, if you would have waited for him to return and spoke to him, then it would have been better for you in the long run. I am not out to take the side of a seller, I was out to make it good for you. I know that is hard to understand, but I only wanted to provide him an opportunity to work this issue with you before all this mess happened. What I was trying to do was avoid a bunch of bashing and respectfully asked to delay this thread until he returned from vacation and now I have Shrap and Jim to deal with.

I have an idea. I will buy the blood if you handle Jim on this issue.

 

[Tim Rash]

I have no problems going to the airport that didn't bother me I go there alot anyways for shipping. I paid with paypal but he is now out of town for what would be exactly long enough that I could not make a claim with them.
The guy that shipped her didn't pick her out she was the only one he was selling.

Tim

 

[Dan Scolaro]

Shrap earlier - "The seller sends mites to his customer WITHOUT informing him of the condition beforehand, does a crappy job of packaging, does not communicate shipping."

Shrap later - "I said earlier that I have not condemned Ray in any way. Screw ups happen and it is how we resolve the screw ups that make it a good or bad deal."

Put my pipe down? What's in your pipe Shrap?

Jim: Perhaps your recent post substantiated why I am not willing to debate you over this. I tried nicely earlier to explain why, but I think you explained it better for me with your temper.

As to this removal or freeze bit: I read a different post a while ago that made reference to the removal of a thread that implicated a third party that had nothing to do with the deal. I partly recall that the webmaster commented something to the effect that it can be done by committee or cannot be done unless the people who made it, agree to it, so that is where I got that idea from. And I have seen other posts frozen so I know the webmaster is capable of this. And I respectfully asked him to do this, so EXCUSE me for having read the terms of service, knowing them, however pointing out that I had knowledge about another method. And if I am right about this method bit to freeze or remove or delay and I respectfully requested it be done until he return from vacation, are you man enough to apologize for your attack?

And a lot of your words are based on statements given by the buyer. I mean if the guy said that Ray was supposed to ship on Thursday and the seller took it there on Thursday, what's not to say that there may be 100 reasons why it could not arrive on Thursday? I mean what if Delta told him it had to be on a later flight? What if his dog barfed in the car seat? What if his wife was stuck at work? What if it was lost? What if the seller had a busy day and had to put it off? You see. We do not know. There could be a thousand reasons? We cannot objectively approach this topic until the seller provides much useful information. What if who packed it was a disgruntled employee or a middleman? We don't know. We don't have sufficient data to make an objective opinion, only a one-sideed story of a snake that is perhaps free of mites at this point and was delivered only one day late. But you still willing to crucify anyone who respectfully requests something like a freeze until the seller can respond? I will talk with you but if you throw insults and loud words for no good reason like you did about the freeze bit, then I am not willing to continue.