Need Help!! Jeffrey Grass has burned me good!

[Arnold8169]

Just to clairify...

I wanted to clarify that in my last post I put that he acknowledged that he recieved them last Tuesday, I meant that he knew that they made a delievery attempt. He said he wasn't home.

Here are some of the e-mails that he sent to me....


From: "jeffrey" <[email protected]>
Date: 2005/02/12 Sat AM 03:17:50 GMT
To: <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Re: I will send payment for these guys in a few seconds...

Move To:

no response yet.I will let you know as soon as I find out.Jeff
----- Original Message -----
From: <[email protected]>
To: "jeffrey" <[email protected]>
Sent: Friday, February 11, 2005 9:13 PM
Subject: Re: Re: I will send payment for these guys in a few seconds...


> Have you found anything out yet???

And here is another....

From: "jeffrey" <[email protected]>
Date: 2005/02/16 Wed AM 05:10:17 GMT
To: <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Re: I will send payment for these guys in a few seconds...

Move To:

I am not home now.I wish you would have confirmed with me before sending the
dragons.The other dragons are being sent back to me but not until
friday.Jeff
----- Original Message -----
From: <[email protected]>
To: "jeffrey" <[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, February 15, 2005 9:34 PM
Subject: Re: Re: I will send payment for these guys in a few seconds...


> Current Status
>
>
> You entered ED38 9698 941U S
>
> We attempted to deliver your item at 1:39 pm on February 15, 2005 in
HOLLY, MI 48442 and a notice was left. A second delivery attempt will be
made. If unsuccessful, we will hold it for five business days and then it
will be returned to the sender. Information, if available, is updated every
evening. Please check again later.
>
> I paid you $400.00 dollars! That might not seem like a lot to you but it
is to me! I e-mailed you several times and the last I heard from you was on
Saturday. You admited to me that you made a mistake and would contact me
back when you heard something but it's now Tuesday and I have sent the wrong
dragons back to you and still nothing. They tried to deliver the dragons
back to you but you weren't home. I sent the product back to you because it
was the wrong items! Please give me a call at (931) 249-1119. I know the
dragons will still be okay if you pick them up when they try again tomorrow,
but you need to get back to me about this issue. These are not good
business practices and I simply want my money back. This transaction has
been awful! I hope you don't try to make this seem like it's my fault in
any way. Please e-mail me back so I know you'll pick up the package
tomorrow. I NEED to hear something from you by tomorrow evening. Please do
the right thing!
>
> Jeff Janes

From: "jeffrey" <[email protected]>
Date: 2005/02/21 Mon PM 03:26:55 GMT
To: <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Re: I will send payment for these guys in a few seconds...

Move To:

Where are the lizards that I sent you?Thanks,Jeff
----- Original Message -----
From: <[email protected]>
To: "jeffrey" <[email protected]>
Sent: Monday, February 21, 2005 7:47 AM
Subject: Re: Re: I will send payment for these guys in a few seconds...


>
> When I get off work today I will file my claims. We could have handled
this the easy way. I paid through pay-pal, but most of the money came from
my credit card so I will dispute the charge also. People like you should be
in jail or at least out of business.
>
> Regretfully,
>
> Jeff Janes

 

[Arnold8169]

You can look at the dates....

You can see where I sent him notification of the shipment and he responded that he was not home. The last time he e-mailed me back it was in responce to me telling him I was tired of sending over dozen e-mails and that it was time to take action.

Jeff

 

[Arnold8169]

Sorry..

(Forgot the last name)

Jeff Janes

 

[DThomas]

So, in my personal experience I would not reccomend labeling a U.S.P.S. priority package with live animals on the box.
Jeff Janes

That is a violation of the Lacy Act, a Federal Felony. All animals shipped need to be properly marked, by law. Stop being cheap and start shipping and demand to receive animals through UPS or Fed Ex. IT is not hard to get certified with them and the extra $20 it would cost is pocket change. IF you can not afford it, then you don't need the animal.

 

[ShannanD25]

I guess something is wrong with me.
First- I KNOW it is illegal to NOT mark that it is a live reptile in a box shipped by USPS. Isn't that the Lacey act? Please someone refresh my memory.
Second- Now you are saying that you did not wait a week to call USPS about the box left at his PO. Thats right, my bad, it was EIGHT days according to your earlier post. "They have been in the box now for 8 days"....That is one day over a week..
Third-The box is marked Perishable, keep warm....Wow, that really is going to aid the Dragon's journey...Fruit is perishable...Keep warm...that is going to confuse some poor postal worker. A box is labeled perishable...like fruit is...but yet it should be kept warm....
Fourth-You allowed these dragons to be shipped USPS but just now say you would NEVER use USPS for an animal of value...so you would on a cheaper animal? I mean 'cause it is cheaper means its life doesn't matter near as much so lets just USPS one dragon, the cheap one, but UPS the other simply because of money...not the Dragon's life....
Fifth-You bought an animal off Reptibid....a big site for known scammers...and come here to complain. Like good breeders on here couldn't have given you a deal close to that, and shipped UPS or another OVERNIGHT service? But hey reptibid is cheaper and USPS is cheaper...
Sixth- You kept him updated daily on the situation....Did he ever acknowledge the fact that he knew the Dragons were at his local post office?
Since his emails left you hanging and gave you the impression he didn't care you figured leaving them at the PO to die was just fine...
Seventh- I don't know you enough to judge you? Right there are 6 good things I know about you now....Need I go on?

Not alot gets me this fumed on fauna. I'd say I am not known for blowing up at people. But your actions lead me to believe you are an idiot. And I know I am not alone...My thoughts are with the dragons. Try re-reading your posts as a person outside this situation....

And if you ship lower value beardies through USPS because you can't charge $50 to ship a lower end Dragon UPS (the proper way) and make money ( close to your exact words) then maybe you are in the wrong business...I don't do it for the money...An animal is an animal regardless of its value to a human. To say one deserves to be shipped overnight but another doesnt, because then you can't make money, is just wrong...

 

[Arnold8169]

Okay...they never told me that....

The guys at the post office always look at me weird and ask what's in the box because they have seen my ship geckos, dragons, and roaches. They got a kick out of me coming in there and have never once said anything to the effect that they are requiring me to label my box. I disclose it to them in person, but do not like broadcasting it on the box.

If I ship through the post office, which is still an option for those people out there who want to use them to ship, I always okay it throught the buyer and give them the option to pay 20-30 dollars more for U.P.S. shipping.

This is the link to Jeffrey Grassi and backs up the fact that he is a con artist. I didn't know about this site 6 months ago when I originally purchased a dragon through him off of repti-bid and I was unaware of how easy it was to con someone on there. So, please don't persecute me for not being in the business for years. It really sucks that I came on here for help and I feel like some of you (Shannon) are basically saying screw you for using a less expensive shipper, doing what I thought was the right thing to do, and believe it or not keeping the animals in mind, but not knowing someone would be so cruel to let them sit in the post office and die.

Jeff Janes

http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/forums/showthread.php?t=16598&highlight=Jeffrey+Grassi

 

[ShannanD25]

Wes,
Yes I am heated about this. Anyone who has read my posts knows I do not react like this very often if at all.

I'm not saying he hasn't been swindled by the seller. The seller is just as guilty. You are right, he may not have received a refund had he waited for better contact with the seller. But to go ahead and ship back, via USPS, the dragons without confirming with the seller that he would pick them up, that is bad. Now he is out $400 and 2 Dragons.

And then to go on about how he had no choice in how the seller shipped, (there is a choice, you can say I will not buy them unless you ship via UPS or other overnight) and to say he would never ship an animal of value USPS....but would ship a cheap one USPS to make money...
Maybe I have some dates and times confused but am I the only one that sees the buyer as being just as guilty in this? Am I the only one upset at how the innocent parties here, the Dragons, are suffering from the sellers inability to communicate and potential scam act and the buyers actions?

Maybe I feel too much for reptiles and their treatment. Maybe I am jsut tired of reading how people see the money to be made and not the beauty of them. Maybe I am tired of reading about how people knowingly endanger a reptiles life by shipping cheap to save a buck, or not marking a box to slide one through. Which it really isnt. USPS will ship lizards and like someone said, it isn't difficult to get approved through other overnight carriers...
We arent talking about shipping perishable flower arrangements or fruit baskets....it is a living breathing critter...maybe they aren't intelligent like a mammal but don't they deserve better consideration?

 

[Dennis Hultman]

Am I the only one upset at how the innocent parties here, the Dragons, are suffering from the sellers inability to communicate and potential scam act and the buyers actions?

No, you are not.

 

[Dennis Hultman]

That is a violation of the Lacy Act, a Federal Felony. All animals shipped need to be properly marked, by law. Stop being cheap and start shipping and demand to receive animals through UPS or Fed Ex. IT is not hard to get certified with them and the extra $20 it would cost is pocket change. IF you can not afford it, then you don't need the animal.

Agreed

 

[DThomas]

If I ship through the post office, which is still an option for those people out there who want to use them to ship, I always okay it throught the buyer and give them the option to pay 20-30 dollars more for U.P.S. shipping.


Jeff Janes

As the seller, you avoid that by saying, "this is how I ship, (overnight carrier), and this is how much it is going to cost." If the buyer does not like it, do not sell. It's really easy.

As a buyer, ask the seller to use one of the over night carriers. If they refuse, move on and find someone that will. There are plenty of breeders that ship overnight. Again, really easy.

No animal IMO should ever be shiped through USPS. They are not reliable enough to insure the safe and timely arrival of the animals.

Now don't take this as beating you up but as constructive criticism for the furture. I also agree with the rest, the seller owes you a refund.

 

[Arnold8169]

Shannon, are your friends with Jeffrey333??

I think you might possibly be in on this whole thing....

Your name looked familiar and I noticed that you sell roaches under bearded dragon listings on repti-bid often!

Fifth-You bought an animal off Reptibid....a big site for known scammers...and come here to complain. Like good breeders on here couldn't have given you a deal close to that, and shipped UPS or another OVERNIGHT service? But hey reptibid is cheaper and USPS is cheaper...

Above is what you put in your last post, but your sell on rept-bid often, don't you? There is a difference, but roaches are a less expensive living creature than bearded dragons, yet you ship via U.S.P.S. with and you use repti-bid oftern. Both are what you say are "cheaper" places and repti-bid is known for sellers that scam, yet you sell there?

Please do not keep posting byiast complaints about me on here.

Jeff Janes

 

[ShannanD25]

Yes I sell bugs on reptibid, fauna, herptraders, and another site I cant remember. So far this year, I have posted TWO ads on reptibid for some roaches to feel out my market and customers for this year. I have never sold a reptile on there. I ship USPS( I pay for this option) but the buyer can choose any method. I mark the box. I insulate and pack with a heat pack. I ship reptiles legally through UPS as I am approved to do so. I took the time to fill out one form, fax it in, and poof, I am authorized. So I mark the box LIVE HARMLESS REPTILE, LIVE LEOPARD GECKO, FRAGILE, KEEP WARM....yadda yadda...anyone who has bought from me here knows how I pack. I charge $35 now for overnighting. I did charge $29.00. If I had to make up the difference so be it. It is the price of doing business. Bottom line is ALL my Leos have made it safe to their destination via UPS marked properly, regardless of their worth. I have sold some Leos for $10-$20 dollars, charged $29.00 for overnighting, and didn't mind if it actually cost more. My customer and reptiles matter. That is why I am in this hobby.

I am not posting biast complaints. You came on here with a complaint. You may have been scammed....I simply responded after reading your facts you posted. I did not twist your words. If you are upset because you feel as if my posts have pushed some blame onto you or made you look bad, again, I only used your words...you wrote what you wrote. Am I mistaken in the facts? I am always willing to say wow, I was wrong, what an idiot I am for jumping the gun, but where have I gotten the facts wrong here? Please point that out and I will willingly apologize for any misunderstanding of what you wrote.

And as far as being in with this guy. Yeah that was a nice try to attempt to defame me but I have been on here for awhile and people know me. I have great references, satisfied customers, great reptiles...and yeah, I have roaches....I'll be posting next on herptrader if you'd like to buy some...

You have every right to be angry that you got scammed possibaly. I have been scammed as well. Technically, you did not get what you paid for. Should you get your money back? Sure. Technically, you illegally shipped back two dragons and they were left for dead by your and the SELLERS actions...do you deserve the money back, does the seller deserve to keep it if these two dragons are dead and it was due to a break down of communication? IS it a scam? These facts we don't know yet. We only know what you have written. Is this guy a scammer? I read the other post and while I can be naive, I don't know.

I can only hope the dragons are alive at this point. To be in a dark box for 8 days with no food and no water...maybe I shold hope they died quickly and did not suffer...

 

[ShannanD25]

Just a thought...
If it can be proven the seller knowingly left these dragons to die can he be charged with animal cruelty? Would it be worth a call to someone in the SELLERS area, a humane league or such, to file a complaint?

 

[shrap]

I think you might possibly be in on this whole thing....
Jeff Janes

Slow down there Jeff. You are going to dig yourself an even deeper hole than you already have.

Shannons biggest gripe, and I agree with her 100%, is the complete disregard for the dragons well being that you have displayed. That is what has got her so upset....your own words and your own actions.

You yourself have made some very poor choices in this whole matter, so be a big boy and accept responsibility for your own actions instead of trying to drag an innocent bystander into it.

No one here is saying the person who ripped you off is not in the wrong for their actions. We are just saying that some of your actions, to those poor animals specifically, were wrong too. And if you can not see where you were wrong then you really should consider a new hobby.

 

[BallPyFan]

Being in the same town as Jeff I called him earlier and spoke to him about this situation. Things that don't sit well with me: 1-Seller has not given out his phone number. If I can't call them up if email isn't getting a response, then maybe they really don't want my money. 2-In a prior email, the seller said he wasn't home when the package was delivered on first attempt. This is an acknowledgement that he knew they were in his locale and that delivery attempts were being made. Without hearing the other side of the story, right now it sounds as if the seller left those animals to die on purpose. How long does it take to swing by the post office?? 3-The purchase was made off Reptibid. When I made a comment about that, Jeff the Buyer seemed rather surprised by the phrase "scammers's paradise." Like it or not, there are many people in the herp world who don't know about this site, or find out about it AFTER they have been scammed. 4-The seller has admitted to sending the wrong box. Uh, yeah, how many times has that one been used? Not keeping proper track of which box goes where screams "Unprofessional" and "Doesn't give a flying leap." The truly strange thing is Jeff the Buyer says he had a perfectly satisfactory transaction with Jeffrey the Seller six months ago. How many sellers here would do this to a repeat customer?

Yes, I told Jeff the Buyer to file a complaint with Paypal, and to email Jeffrey the Seller and let him know about this thread. As for the dragons, it sounds like they were left for dead by the seller...which begs the question WHY? So he can claim to Paypal that the "merchandise" was not returned in the condition it was shipped? Could the seller be so calloused? There are quite a few questions in this case right now, but I don't think jumping all over the buyer in such a manner as some have is really warranted just yet.

 

[shrap]

Katrina,

By Jeff's own account he sent those dragons back without ever getting conformation to ship them. You just don't ship animals unless the receiving party has agreed to accept them. PERIOD. You just don't do it.

He said he sent emails for three days with no reply and then said screw it I am shipping them back anyway. That is BS. PERIOD. The rip off guy may have been in a wreck, his mother may have died, anything could have happened..... or he could have been ignoring the emails, like I suspect. Either way it does not matter though. You do not ship helpless animals unless both parties have agreed and arrangements have been made. PERIOD.

 

[Dennis Hultman]

but I don't think jumping all over the buyer in such a manner as some have is really warranted just yet.

Why? Nobody says what he says is not true.
He is only being questioned about what he did on his end.

He is in business in this hobby and says, "the post office did not tell me it is illegal not to mark my box" Come On.

I was going to cut a little slack here and actual rewrote my first post when I previewed it because I thought it was a little harsh. Now he is accusing people of being in league with the seller. Get a grip.


Let say everything said on his part is true. He still shipped illegal and in the email he posted he said he got the wrong product.


That is how he looks at it. He treated them like a product.

 

[BallPyFan]

Granted, Jeff the buyer should have held onto the dragons until a time to ship could be confirmed, but the name-calling is what I was referring to. A tad excessive this early in the post.

As for method of shipping, in this town I trust my mailman more than the incompetents at UPS and Fedex after having to chew both companies out on the local level for everything from bouncing a package marked "Fragile" as she walked up to my door for a signature to dropping a "Signature required" box off to the wrong address without even knocking on the door. Unfortunately, the law says no snakes via USPS, so I have to keep on the overnighters every time they deliver (or misdeliver) a box here. With such options I have begun to prefer driving 4-6 hours one way to hit a reptile show.

Also, the failure to secure a ship date only excuses the seller from the first delivery attempt. Those animals could have been saved by a simple phone call, filling out the yellow delivery attempt slip granting permission for someone else to pick it up, or a simple trip to the post office to pick them up. I would love for the seller to try to come on here and justify all this, wouldn't you?

 

[riverjop]

Lessons For All!

Well this is a perfect example, for this simple solution!
1. Always, always get a phone number first before making that final step of buying or selling. And when you get that phone number, use it! Call the person and confirm the transaction! It changes the communication to a more personnel level. These days it's so impersonal sending e-mails back & forth. Make a call it may make a difference. And if the other person refuses to give you their number or says they don't have one, move on there are many other reputable dealers and buyers out there!

2. Use the BOI thats what it is there for! All of this could have been avoided if the BOI had been used or even a simple search of the inter net of the buyer/sellers name!

Does the seller owe money to the buyer....of course no doubt about it!
Did the buyer make mistakes...again no doubt about it.

As for Shannan, being in cahoots with this guy! No way! She's just concerned with the welfare of the animals in question....like many of us!

 

[JAOA49]

lol

Let's wait and see some evidence and maybe hear from the seller before we crucify this guy.

Would that be alright with you or have you got the hammer and nails out already?

Crucify him! Crucify him!

Rofl some heart you have Shannon and any one else with a cold heart.... However I do agree on one thing tho.. they should have made arrangements for returning em...

It could be a new seller??? I didn't check... oops you caught me I didn't check.....

Check FIRST about this guy... Don't use USPS ever again... use FedEx....

Jake