Info on record / Debbie Prince

[MikeCurtin]

First, I did not answer for the OP - the OP posted it on the other thread and any number of people could have told you the same thing - I suspect since it doesn't paint a very good picture of Debbie doing the right thing that's probably why no one mentioned it -- if it's that big of an issue for you I guess you can go back to hoping it's all working itself out.

Second, if that is your biggest issue that you pull out of this thread then wow, just wow.

You all let me know when you see that snake Debbie is supposed to be selling go up for sale.

Tosha, as you have been following this thread as closely as we all have, could could you at least agree that neither party looks very good at this point? They have both made mistakes. They have both been called on said mistakes. They have both decided to avoid the BOI since things got difficult for each of them.

Also, out of curiosity, do you have any idea why the OP felt it was more effective to make further posts regarding this transaction on another forum, but not here? Please do not take this sarcastically...it is not my intent...just an honest question.

 

[lanceheads]

Toni is still waiting to hear from Debbie who once again is MIA and none responsive. So there are no further updates other than the usual.

I disagree.
This post right here is YOU posting for Toni.
If you are paraphrasing Toni's post's, then you should say so.
Stop the "Toni is" posts.

Randal Berry

 

[TattooLost]

First, I did not answer for the OP - the OP posted it on the other thread and any number of people could have told you the same thing - I suspect since it doesn't paint a very good picture of Debbie doing the right thing that's probably why no one mentioned it -- if it's that big of an issue for you I guess you can go back to hoping it's all working itself out.

Second, if that is your biggest issue that you pull out of this thread then wow, just wow.

You all let me know when you see that snake Debbie is supposed to be selling go up for sale.

You don't seem to be very observant, if you're assuming that my biggest issue from this thread is you posting for the Toni. I didn't emphasize it. It was simply one in a number of items I take issue with. Maybe you interpreted Randal's quote of my post to think that I was the one that bolded that statement instead of him? If so, please re-read MY posts.

As Randal stated, you do seem to be answering for Toni. Instead of coming in here stating "from what i've read on another forum..." you come in speaking in her place.

It's clear you've chosen a side, so maybe that's why you take offense to some of us questioning BOTH parties actions. That's your right. Just don't try to pick a fight because we don't take your side.

 

[147boas]

In simple terms, that's part of the solution. But I think it's a bit more complicated than that.

1. Toni and Debbie need to come up with and agree on an amount to be refunded. I personally believe this should include the vet bills that Debbie requested, and not the boarding costs, etc.

2. Toni and Debbie need to agree on the outcome of the snake in question. I personally believe it should be shipped back to Debbie immediately upon receipt of an agreed upon refund amount.

Yes, I'm including my personal opinion in there as to what *I* believe is fair... but as I stated, THEY need to come up with and agree on this. It sounds like they're BOTH stalling negotiations in one way or another to me.

I still have questions, but then I'm not a part of the transaction. I'm just a part of the BOI community.

i do agree they need to come up with some kind of agreement

 

[Uroboros]

As there seems to either be no resolution, or neither party wishes to inform the Fauna community of one after all the back and forth on this forum, I'd have to say I'd avoid dealings with either in the future. Not that I'm a BP guy, but I don't feel either has acted in a way that would lead me to recommend them to ANYONE.

As a buyer: No buying from Debbie.

As a seller: No selling to Toni.

 

[ToshaMc]

Tosha, as you have been following this thread as closely as we all have, could could you at least agree that neither party looks very good at this point? They have both made mistakes. They have both been called on said mistakes. They have both decided to avoid the BOI since things got difficult for each of them.

Also, out of curiosity, do you have any idea why the OP felt it was more effective to make further posts regarding this transaction on another forum, but not here? Please do not take this sarcastically...it is not my intent...just an honest question.

I think Toni's concern for her collection and a need for answers is coming accross as vindictiveness which I agree doesn't look good but that isn't what it is about. It's easy for those of us who don't have an sick animal in our possession to blow off concern but for Toni and her daughter it's a real thing they have to live with. You can thank the idiot who said that IBD can live in pythons for months for the new found vigilance because I believe that during the course of this mess those of us that have been her sounding block had her comfortable in the probability that it wasn't.

The fact is that Debbies track record with Toni is that of lying, scamming, making her customer needlessly jump through a bunch of hoops and evasiveness -- would you trust her to do the right thing by you or the animal? I've advised her to do what the vets suggest - period. If that means they suggest she necropsy the snake then that is what she should do - irregardless of what Debbie wants - if Debbie had any say in this it left the room when she didn't step up on day one. If Debbie doesn't want to refund her money and pay for some of the vet bills after she sent Toni to the vet then that is par for Debbies course. But I don't speak for Toni and I don't know what Toni is going to do.

Now - as it's been stated Toni has been sick - this stress isn't good it for her health either. Debbie told her she didn't care what the BOI thought but Toni decided to give it a shot. It didn't work and now Debbie won't even communicate through the BOI - and everyone applauds her when she gives Toni yet another hoop to jump through and disappears -- so why bother with it further - so people can continue to pick her apart because she is the only one here. Effectiveness doesn't have anything to do with her post on the other forum it's obvious that taking it public isn't getting her any resolution and she is back to square one - which is back to talking about it amongst her friends. Since it's come to a stalemate there really isn't anything to be running to the BOI about anyway.

 

[Mooing Tricycle]

after she sent Toni to the vet

She sent her?

Wouldnt Toni have gone anyway? Just, i dunno makes me curious why a person wouldnt go to the vet of their own volition in the first place upon getting an animal that was doing VERY weird things right out of the box......

 

[Tiger Lilly]

I don't care how far away the vet is, if I took my child's tuition money and invested in reptiles, you can believe I'd be documenting EVERYTHING from the minute I took them out of the box! If that means driving 2 hours to the vet, uh, yeah--that's gonna happen.
I hope if/when they get this ironed out, one of them comes back to this thread and let's us know what happened!

 

[hhmoore]

If Toni wants anything stated here - whether it be updates, or whatever - then she can do it herself. If neither the buyer or seller are going to post, everybody else is simply beating a dead horse

 

[Ed Clark]

everybody else is simply beating a dead horse

Some may say beating, some may say tenderizing!

I wonder what that tenderized horse tastes like on the grill?

 

[Lucille]

Some may say beating, some may say tenderizing!

I wonder what that tenderized horse tastes like on the grill?

What ARE you smoking, sugar?

 

[MikeCurtin]

I think Toni's concern for her collection and a need for answers is coming accross as vindictiveness which I agree doesn't look good but that isn't what it is about. It's easy for those of us who don't have an sick animal in our possession to blow off concern but for Toni and her daughter it's a real thing they have to live with.

If you look back in this thread, I dealt with a situation almost identical, so I know EXACTLY how she feels. This does nothing to address why she doesn't have the same amount of concern with the other "exposed" animals.

The fact is that Debbies track record with Toni is that of lying, scamming, making her customer needlessly jump through a bunch of hoops and evasiveness -- would you trust her to do the right thing by you or the animal? I've advised her to do what the vets suggest - period. If that means they suggest she necropsy the snake then that is what she should do - irregardless of what Debbie wants - if Debbie had any say in this it left the room when she didn't step up on day one. If Debbie doesn't want to refund her money and pay for some of the vet bills after she sent Toni to the vet then that is par for Debbies course. But I don't speak for Toni and I don't know what Toni is going to do.

I think the term "VERY poor customer service" is more accurate, but that still does not give Toni the right to kill the snake and then expect a refund and veterinary costs.

Now - as it's been stated Toni has been sick - this stress isn't good it for her health either. Debbie told her she didn't care what the BOI thought but Toni decided to give it a shot. It didn't work and now Debbie won't even communicate through the BOI - and everyone applauds her when she gives Toni yet another hoop to jump through and disappears -- so why bother with it further - so people can continue to pick her apart because she is the only one here. Effectiveness doesn't have anything to do with her post on the other forum it's obvious that taking it public isn't getting her any resolution and she is back to square one - which is back to talking about it amongst her friends. Since it's come to a stalemate there really isn't anything to be running to the BOI about anyway.

Toni's posts here are the only thing that got her the offer for a refund in the first place. Toni disappeared when she was told that she was being unreasonable after recieving said offer.

By the way, since no one is talking about it anymore (myself included), how's the snake? Any progress at all?

 

[dprince]

I’ve been able to get the refund for Toni. There are three money orders, each for $500.

I’ve asked Dennis Hultman, and he’s agreed, that I can send him the MO’s, and Toni can send him my snake. Because Toni apparently doesn’t think I’ll have the snake necropsied if she dies, Dennis has agreed to hold the snake for a few months, and he will have her necropsied if she dies. Once Dennis receives the snake from Toni, he will forward on the MO’s to her. If this works for Toni, please send me a private email letting me know as much, as I'm not going to read this thread.

I’ve certainly learned some important things from this transaction. I appreciate the folks who were either constructively critical, very supportive, or a mix of both. Also, a huge thank you to those who offered to help out in any way possible – a very sincere thank you.

 

[Casey Hulse]

Dennis is definitely "beyond reproach", good choice!
I hope you both can come to terms. I think you are both "good people" who just got caught up in a bit of a storm.
Good luck!

 

[Ed Clark]

I think you are both "good people" who just got caught up in a bit of a storm.
Good luck!

Casey, I disagree with you on this.

Debbie Prince is not a good person sending a bp like this to Toni or anyone.

She sold that bp because she seen the problems and wanted to not lose any money so she shipped her problems to Toni.

The potential health issues are very real with all the unknowns involved with this ball python. there is no way this bp should have ever been sold to anyone.

 

[Ed Clark]

Someone left me a message that I did not take into consideration the heat.

With any other morph or a normal I certainly would have considered that. not with a caramel or spider the pics posted show typical caramel and spider genetic defects.

We all offered opinions on this and this is mine, the reason I say this is because of the number of caramels and spiders I have seen act this way.

 

[spawn]

We all offered opinions on this and this is mine, the reason I say this is because of the number of caramels and spiders I have seen act this way.

I think you're reaching for something that is not there. You are the only one to suggest that all of a single morph carry these defects.

 

[147boas]

well i am glad to see they worked every thing out
debbie i was hard on you but you proved our self in my book you are okay

 

[Wolfy-hound]

Ed, you can't say that anything at all was wrong with the snake beforehand, because you didn't see that caramel beforehand. I've seen a lot of caramels, none of which showed those symptoms.

That said, Dennis is a trustworthy person, and it seems to be a good solution to the issues.

 

[Ed Clark]

We all offered opinions on this and this is mine, the reason I say this is because of the number of caramels and spiders I have seen act this way.

I think you're reaching for something that is not there. You are the only one to suggest that all of a single morph carry these defects.

Its definitely in the genetic make up of Spiders and Caramels...there is no question about that.

Do they all display it so frequently that everyone sees it, would someone that does not know what to look for notice a slight twitch, cocked head or that bp crawling on its back in the dark while they are sleeping?