Questioning Chris Steele auction on ReptiBid

[tarheelreptile]

Don't get me wrong. I'm not saying that selling reptiles under false pretensesor ripping people off is alright. There are alot of guilty con artists around that need to be put in prison. Sellers should fairly and accurately represent the animals they're selling. The bad apples ruin it for everybody. I'm just saying that these people who are ruining auctions for sellers need to give it a rest. There is no reason to openly attack a seller on Q&A under any circumstance. That's why email, buyer/seller forums and this BOI exist. If the person is a fraud then they will eventually be exposed, caught and dealt with. Just give it time. Ruining a seller's auction just because you think the price is too high, the snake might be incorrectly sexed, etc. is just plain wrong. No matter how you phrase it. That's why these Q&A Abusers are usually banned from Reptibid if they are reported to the webmaster.

 

[Traci1]

Re: The Q&A Abusers

I've seen this time after time on Reptibid. Q&A Abusers like to go on ads and criticize the seller. Whether it's the price, the sex of the animal, or just plain old verbal abuse. I think a select few of them don't realize that they are being rude. But the majority know exactly what they are doing. Lots of people have been banned from the site for this particular violation. Reptibid needs to do away with the direct Q&A fomat they are currently using. They should go to the direct Email format that Kingsnake uses. It eliminates Q&A Abuser problem.

From what I've read in this thread, it seems that this was a classic example of somebody trying to ruin the seller's auction.

Again, someone who obviously is not reading my posts. How is providing truthful info about the animal and asking him about the sex "criticizing the seller" or "a classic example of somebody trying to ruin the seller's auction"? I CARED because that animal was in my care for several months plus I wanted any potential bidders to be sure about what they were bidding on.

Do not lump me into a group of what you call "Q&A abusers" which I'm sure exists but which I am not part of. I also provided Chris with info about two other animals he had on Reptibid that had previously been in my care.

If the person was truly concerned about the truthfullness of the ad then they might have posted the following:

"Are you sure it's a female?

Genius, did you read my post? I DID ask that.

Are you sure it has been cooled? How long have you had it?"

I didn't need to ask those questions now did I. I provided the info I had from when the animal was in my care.

Note: I sold that snake = I'm inflating my ego.

Sorry but I don't get an ego from selling snakes. I haven't even sold that many.

Whether or not you were being rude intentionally, you ruined this seller's auction. If your not interested in buying the particular animal, you shouldn't be posting questions/statements anyway.

First of all I was not rude. Second of all in the Q&A section of the auction, for the most part, only Chris and potentional bidders would see the info. A lot more poeple are seeing it here in the BOI!

Don't worry about the other users. They're grown ups, they can handle it on their own. That's one of the reasons you must be 18 to engage in an auction.

If we are not supopsed to worry about others out there who are thinking of purchasing herps, then please explain to me the purpose and popularity of the BOI.

And as far as wasting time - please take your own advice.

Traci Engle

 

[jim0602]

the way i'm reading this is traci never sexed this snake but sold it as a male.she was told it was a male so sold it as a male.chris bought it as a fe-male so was selling it as a fe-male.i see no difference here between these 2 sellers.i may be wrong.it woulden't be the 1st time

jim burns

 

[Traci1]

the way i'm reading this is traci never sexed this snake but sold it as a male.she was told it was a male so sold it as a male.chris bought it as a fe-male so was selling it as a fe-male.i see no difference here between these 2 sellers.i may be wrong.it woulden't be the 1st time

jim burns

Jim although I do not agree with your seeing no difference between us, you are right that I did not sex the snake while it was in my care. When I sold the snake I stated that it was sold to me as a male. And Chris himself stated that he doubted Blue Ribbon Herps (who I purchased the snake from) would have sexed it incorrectly. However he was not agreeing about where the snake came from. (Blue Ribbon, then me, then Jason from Pets Go Round, KY)

Traci Engle

 

[tarheelreptile]

Nice Try. Not buying it.

"Are you sure it's a female?

Genius, did you read my post? I DID ask that.

Yes you did ask that, but you added a bunch of other unneeded crap. And you could have asked him in an email. The fact that you posted your unwanted opinion on his Q&A instead of emailing him shows that you lack manners and you were deliberately trying to discourage buyers or make him out to be a liar.

I didn't need to ask those questions now did I. I provided the info I had from when the animal was in my care.

I still haven't seen any proof that this is the same snake you owned. Pictures mean nothing. Cornsnake patterns are so similiar that a person could google picture search for that particular phase of cornsnake and find at least a dozen pictures that appear to perfectly match the auction photo. Given that you have no proof (receipts, etc.) you didn't need to approach the seller in that manner. If it is indeed the same snake, you were wrong about its gender and probably everything else. So, you did need to ask those questions!

First of all I was not rude. Second of all in the Q&A section of the auction, for the most part, only Chris and potentional bidders would see the info. A lot more poeple are seeing it here in the BOI!

"Potential Bidders", that's the key word. There wasn't much potential after you posted your comments. If you would have posted the questions on BOI to begin with maybe you get a little more respect.

I CARED because that animal was in my care for several months plus I wanted any potential bidders to be sure about what they were bidding on.

Where in the Reptibid User Agreement does it state that you are responsible for educating the other users about what everybody else is selling? What qualifies you to do this? You even admit that your inexperienced when it comes to selling snakes!

Sorry but I don't get an ego from selling snakes. I haven't even sold that many.

If we are not supposed to worry about others out there who are thinking of purchasing herps, then please explain to me the purpose and popularity of the BOI.

Okay I will. BOI is here so you can ask other buyers and sellers their opinions on other buyers and sellers. BOI exists so people don't go on auction Q&A and ruin it by being rude and accusing the person of being a liar. Q&A exists so "Potential Bidders" can ask questions. You WERE NOT a potential bidder.
Too complicated for you?
Must be. You still haven't figured out that what you did was extremely rude and uncalled for. If it were my ad, I would have contacted the webmaster and had you banned immediately. There's an idea Chris!

Ask the webmaster of Reptibid what he thinks of your post? I'd be willing to bet that you will be warned or possibly banned.

 

[Traci1]

You know, I truly wish I could refrain from replying to any more of your nonsense, but I admit I am the type that cannot help but to defend myself.

Nice Try. Not buying it.

"Are you sure it's a female?

Yes you did ask that, but you added a bunch of other unneeded crap. And you could have asked him in an email. The fact that you posted your unwanted opinion...

umm...facts honey not opinion. I did not pick an auction at random and make a comment like, "that snake looks like a male, I wouldn't bid." I only posted what I did because I know that snake is the one I had previously and wanted bidders to have the right info about that animal.

I still haven't seen any proof that this is the same snake you owned. Pictures mean nothing.

Actually haven't you ever heard that "a picture is worth a thousand words" ?

Cornsnake patterns are so similiar that a person could google picture search for that particular phase of cornsnake and find at least a dozen pictures that appear to perfectly match the auction photo.

I seriously doubt that, in fact be my guest and do a search.

If it is indeed the same snake, you were wrong about its gender

well you're actually saying that Bill from Blue Ribbon was wrong then because I did not sex it myself. And although I don't think he sent a paper receipt, I do have the ID # that Bill had assigned to that animal.

Where in the Reptibid User Agreement does it state that you are responsible for educating the other users about what everybody else is selling?

Where did I say that it did? And who is "everbody else"?? This is one single auction we're talking about here.

You even admit that your inexperienced when it comes to selling snakes!

Just because I haven't sold a lot of snakes doesn't mean I'm not experienced with snakes. And what does that have to do with me recognizing an animal for sale that was previously in my care and wanting to provide info about it? Not a thing.

You know you are another one who is more concerned about sellers making money than buyers having the right info. If you were someone who was bidding on that snake based on it being a female, I think you would appreciate the info I provided. All Chris would have had to do after the very first post I made under Q&A, was to check his records of where he got the snake, as well as to sex it. But instead he jumped all over me for posting truthful info about the animal. That is why this came to the BOI.

This thread is not for you to rant and rave and show off so I hope you refrain from posting any more here. And if you don't I hope I can refrain from replying. (that would be quite hard for me though)

Traci Engle

 

[tarheelreptile]

Hope I'll Refrain? I have the right to express my opinion just as you do. If you don't like what I have to say, too bad. The one difference is that I express my opinions here on BOI intead of doing it on people's Q&A.

It's becoming really clear that you are one of these people who will never admit they're wrong. You just want to blame everything on Chris and Blue Ribbon. You are the one that started this whole thing by sticking your big nose where it didn't belong.

All Chris would have had to do after the very first post I made under Q&A, was to check his records of where he got the snake, as well as to sex it. But instead he jumped all over me for posting truthful info about the animal. That is why this came to the BOI.

According to his response he knew where he got the snake (not from you), what sex it was (female). He has no reason to lie. Ruin his reputation over 1 snake? Why would he do that? You are just unable accept the fact that you're wrong and he had every right to jump all over you. Just like you have the right to post your little story on BOI.
When it's all over, it comes down to this:
You succeeded in educating no one and you tried to ruin a seller's auction ad and reputation just because the snake he's selling looks like one you owned in the past.

Maybe it's me, but that is pretty pitiful!

 

[jefjen]

You know Traci,
Chris was just going on what he was TOLD about the snake.. There is nothing wrong with that.
You did the exact same thing when you sold it.
I didnt see anywhere that Chris said to you that he didnt care what sex it was, or intentionally lied about the snake.
He was simply going from what he was told.
I am sure you had no malicous intent when asking those questions, however, i do believe you should have asked him in an email..
Then,,AND ONLY THEN, if you found him to be lying, or hiding the truth, that would have been the time to post it in a public place..
The only other thing that i see wrong with what you did was making your comment about how many times the snake changed hands..
Whether you meant it or not, it did come off sounding a little malicous.
I agree with Mark(?) @ Tarheel about the Q & A Abusers.. There are alot of them on Repti-Bid..
Jeff

 

[jefjen]

.

All Chris would have had to do after the very first post I made under Q&A, was to check his records of where he got the snake, as well as to sex it. But instead he jumped all over me for posting truthful info about the animal. That is why this came to the BOI

Truthful info???
You didnt sex the damn snake either, so how do you know you were letting people know the truth???

 

[CornCrazy]

I have to say something...I know exactly where Traci is coming from. When I have had a snake in my care for months on end, I know that snake! For example, I sold some snakes to a pet store last season. Later on, I met a lady who wanted me to probe her snake and when I saw it I informed her that it was a snake I had produced. I even provided her pictures that proved it was the same snake. She was amazed that I recognized the snake.

As for Traci not sexing the snake, she never SAID that it was definitely a male. She said it was sold to her as a male, but that she had NOT sexed it to verify that fact. At least she was honest.

I think you guys are WRONG for bashing her. She seems to simply be concerned with the "lack of honesty" in this hobby.

 

[jim0602]

i'm not at all bashing her.. i'm simply saying she sold the snake as male.not that she bought it as a male.chris did the same exact thing.was told female and sold that way.absolutly no difference in the 2 sellers here.they did exactly the same thing.which i'm not saying is bad either. i have sold many snakes on the word of others.only thing is though it can bite you in the azz.i just lost $150.00 on another guys word when i had to correct his and my mistake by not verifying for myself.i would like to hear from chris again and see the pics we were promised ?? but i feel like traci is upset over the fact that she could have screwed up and sold a female as a male for a much lower price than she could have gotten for it.i see nothing bad about either of these sellers and am in no way bashing either.i do also feel like she could have emailed him and asked questions instead of the q&a section.and then to bring it here at this time i also feel was not right in the way it was handeled.

jim burns

 

[dwedeking]

As for Traci not sexing the snake, she never SAID that it was definitely a male.

Ok, then she wasn't positive it was a male and she sold it under the same conditions that Chris was (going by what the previous owner had told him). A simple email to have Chris double check the sex of the snake and Chris's view of Traci would probably had dramatically changed for the better.

Traci, you say we are only looking out for the sellers. Since most that see the lack of ettiquete in your original post are sellers we know exactly what a post like yours would do to an auction or advertisement. From reading your posts I am having a hard time believing that you lack the intelligence to see what the effect of your post did to the auction. Just from the outside looking in, that seems to have been your intent from the start.

 

[Suncoast Herpetological]

Traci

I don't think that anyone posting here will argue that you overall intentions were anything but the best. The fact that you wanted to ensure that the bidders had the proper information is definitely laudable.

I think it was the way that you went about it that is raising some objections. Other than the fact that you strongly believe that the animal is the one you sold, the only real solid info you had to dispense was that the animal you had sold could not have been cooled for any length of time. You have stated yourself that you had no first hand knowledge of the animals gender.

I agree with the majority here that the proper way to proceed would have been to Email the seller with your questions / concerns. If that did not get you a satisfactory response then you had the option to post on the Q and A or here. No one is doubting your honesty but the posts you had on reptibid were definitely on the confrontational side. Chris did not respond in anything but a professional manner until your posts got aggressive.

Bottom line is that your motives were great but your delivery was definitely sub par.

Oh and just so this post does not seem too one sided, Chris, if you are purchasing animals for resale (especially adults) you should definitely not sell them as one gender or another without being sure. An adult cornsnake can be sexed at a glance 99 times out of 100 with relative certainty. We have all made an occasional error on a neonate but an adult is a hard one to explain.

 

[jefjen]

I agree John..
I think Chris handled the situation quite well, especially since Traci may have ruined his auction.
If you read Traci's post's, you will see that she has gotten very aggressive with ALMOST everyone who has questioned her.. Even got a LITTLE derogatory towards Mark by calling him a genius..
I myself am guilty of taking someone's word on the sex of a snake.. I do re-sex them at times, but sometimes i take the seller's word..
I would DEFINATELY LIKE TO KNOW THE TRUE SEX OF THE CORN IN QUESTION..
If it turns out to be a FEMALE,, shouldn't Traci be responsible for compensating the person she sold it too..
I know i am being facicous(sp?), but i think everyone sees what i am getting at..
If it is a female,, she sold a WRONGLY SEXED SNAKE!!!!!! PERIOD!!!!

 

[CornCrazy]

BUT...she stated that she did not KNOW for certain what gender the snake was...so she DID NOT sell a wrongly sexed snake!!!

 

[DAND]

Male or female???

Like Jeff just stated, "I would DEFINATELY LIKE TO KNOW THE TRUE SEX OF THE CORN IN QUESTION". Where is Chris and his pics he said he was going to post on Monday?

 

[ms_terese]

If it's the same snake, which no one seems to be disputing at this point, how could Chris have had it since BEFORE Traci sold it to Jason?

Personally, when someone begins altering details, I begin questioning everything.

 

[CornCrazy]

Good point Therese!

It makes me even more suspicious that Chris hasn't followed through with pictures or other promised information. The one picture he posted looked NOTHING like the snake in question.

In my opinion, if he was being dishonest intentionally, then the auction SHOULD have been ruined. I know that sounds harsh, but dishonest people ruin things for the rest of us.

As for Traci being aggressive towards some of the people who posted here, I can't say that I blame her. Some of the posts directed at Traci sounded very rude, and I feel that Traci was basically just defending herself.

 

[HerpVenue]

Where is Chris and his pics he said he was going to post on Monday?

If it's the same snake, which no one seems to be disputing at this point, how could Chris have had it since BEFORE Traci sold it to Jason?
Personally, when someone begins altering details, I begin questioning everything.

It makes me even more suspicious that Chris hasn't followed through with pictures or other promised information. The one picture he posted looked NOTHING like the snake in question.

good points all.
I have dealt with Chris....he was the buyer I was the seller and everything went well.
I found him to be a pretty honest guy.
I was giving him the benefit of the doubt thinking that this might all just be a mistake...... sometime even I forget how long I have really had a snake.

I do not think it is too late for him to come and say he made a mistake on how long he has had a snake. But gosh darn the silence is deafening.




Now something out of topic.
I see some people I consider friends to be on the opposite side of this.
It just goes to show.......the people who say there is a clique here do not have a clue. Sometimes we all agree sometimes we don't.

 

[jefjen]

I have to agree with R. Luna.
If Chris doesnt come back to defend himself, it does look bad..
C'Mon Chris.

Let me clarify something real quick..
I DO NOT know either party involved.
I like repti-bid.. I have sold several animals on that site as of now, and i think its great..
Now granted, there are some dirt-bags on there, but there are some good guys also.
I keep on hearing people say they will never go to that site again, and that saddens me.
The less traffic, the less of a chance i have to sell animals.
I know that may sound a little greedy, but "Hey, Ive got a family to support"..
I am going to start another thread in GBD's about what can be done to save Repti-Bid..

Back on topic, I dont see that Chris did anything wrong,,WITH THE EXCEPTION of possibly telling people he had the snake longer than he did..
Even then, I do not think that makes him a bad guy, and I believe if it turns out to be the same snake, he will have learned a good lesson about be truthful when it comes to how long he had an animal..

AND CHRIS, EVEN IF YOU ONLY HAD AN ANIMAL FOR A FEW WEEKS/MONTHS, (especially if its a c.b.b. animal) BE HONEST.. MOST PEOPLE DONT CARE THAT YOU ONLY HAD THE ANIMAL A FEW WEEKS/MONTHS,, AS LONG AS ITS HEALTHY, AND THEY CAN TRUST YOUR REPUTATION TO FIX ANY PROBLEMS THAT MAY ARISE.

I am on your side Chris.. Prove yourself right.