Recent issues in the Leo Forum brought to the BOI

[Chris@TSE]

And the problem with Poe is quite simple.... Whenever he posts here, or anywhere on fauna for that matter, people will be lining up to tell that pathetic SOB exactly where to stick it. Not to mention he is a glutteon for punishment. He knows these things just dont go away, and the second he is out of the "spotlight" for more than a week or two he begins posting again as if he has done nothing wrong... And if conversation does not become "interesting" enough for him he begins dropping comments and hints regarding previous arguments such as his husbandry practices or ethics. This is baiting. Nothing more. He did it in a previous mack snow thread where he had posted photos, people replied without attacking him, and then he began dropping comments regarding previous issues in order to get a response! He knows when he posts it will get a response, and not a favorable one. And once that happens its a snowball effect...

He simply cannot help but cause problems, only this time we're not dealing with a raving idiot like ray strickland or pete perez. (His grammer is however right on Par with them) We're dealing with a pathetic fool whos hungry for attention. Even if the attention is not favorable, its still required.

He does not deserve the spotlight any longer. He gets fined and suspended and rather than pay the fine what does he do? He creates a screen name the very next day and claims to be his mother! Within minutes he's sending me personal messages as well....

But let me guess, theres nothing wrong with creating names to avoid suspensions and fines either right? Didn't think so.......

 

[shrap]

Chris,

Have you brought the alternative name to Rich's attention? If not I will because that is BS.

You can think what you want but Rich gave 2 very explicit warnings about keeping things about the whole Poe deal out of the discussion forum. It was not just wondering off topic that got us where we are with Alex and others. It was them completely ignoring Rich specifically about keeping the Poe deal out of the forums. And you know it. So quit trying to twist it. You remind me of a politician. Sorry, I hate to call anyone a politician but you are putting quite the spin on it.

We know the rules, we were given multiple warnings and we are adults and should be mature enough to accept and respect Rich's authority on his board.

There, now I feel better. Please do not take this personal Chris. I truly believe you are one of the good guys around here. I just think your take on this whole situation is misguided at best.

 

[Lucille]

But let me guess, theres nothing wrong with creating names to avoid suspensions and fines either right? Didn't think so.......

Don't get your knickers in a knot, Chris. Circumventing suspensions is not permitted and if you look at the fines record, someone who does that receives additional fines. Report it if you see it. There is a little 'report' icon you can use for your convenience.
This is a very big place, it would be helpful to bring this information to Rich's attention; he is a fine webmaster and we owe it to him to help as much as we are able.

 

[Chris@TSE]

Yes, I told him in a personal email. I did not give him the exact username but I'm sure he is aware of it.

Also, I am not talking about Rich's warnings. I was talking about Poe with that previous "novel"

As you can see by reading above a bit I agreed with his warnings, and made sure not to comment myself. Thankfully I was tied up this weekend and really couldnt or else the temptation may have been too great! I saw the thread, and saw the conversation.... I knew right from the start that it was a mess waiting to happen.

To be quite honest I do believe if that thread was already heading in the wrong direction (and we all know thats an understatement) it should have been closed.... In my experiences threads that have been hijacked or kicked off topic rarely "right" themselves. It could have closed, and re-made with that specific warning in the begining. Perhaps this would have set things straight.... Who knows. Live and learn....

The warnings were very specific, and I agree they were ignored. I just think the mess could have been avoided.... It just sucks seeing it.

Thanks for the input and kind words Sammy, no offence taken.

 

[dragonflyreptiles]

Chris, there was more than that 1 thread, The mack snow thread went in and out several times and even though most tried really hard to keep it on topic and it was not just that thread labeled "Mack Snow", IF it had only been that thread, then I would agree, but there were 3 others before the "Mack Snow" thread in which 2 were locked and the next a warning placed so it was as you say it "cut & dry" that the DanP/DanL/Alex part was to stay off the leo forum. The rest of the infomation could have been discussed on the leo forum.

So the "cut and dry" part to me was that Rich told the group 3 times about the issue going off topic and it still headed the wrong way again. The Mack Snow thread shoud never have gotten to the wrong side of the road because of the previous warnings, thats pretty "cut and dry" to me, maybe not to you but it is to me.

Maybe this will help to keep all the info in one spot:
This was the original thread that had to be locked and info was placed on the BOI at that time and was locked:
http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/forums/showthread.php?t=66276

This thread went actually ok becuase you stepped in
http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/forums/showthread.php?t=66696

Then this one was warned and had to be locked
http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/forums/showthread.php?t=68125

Then another warning in a thread where I went off topic about the shady back stabbing deal was warned on #44:
http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/forums/showthread.php?t=68124

This Thread was warned:
http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/forums/showthread.php?t=68124

So on this as you sometimes say I will just agree to disagree with you since I don't see how much more cut and dry it could have been with that many warnings to keep the threads on topic and to keep the dealings about the snow on the BOI.

Do I think Dan Poe is a good guy - No, he went behind Alex's back to get the snow and now you say he has a new user ID

Do I think Dan L is a good guy - probably, not sure yet, I think if he did not want the snow because of family issues he should have let Alex refund him for it and send it back

DO I think Alex is a good guy - YES, he is the best and I hate this entire situation for him!

 

[dragonflyreptiles]

The warnings were very specific, and I agree they were ignored. I just think the mess could have been avoided.... It just sucks seeing it.

That I agree with 100%

And Ill admit, Im not involved with the Mack Snows but I am very curious about them and nosey to say the least, Id like to have seen the issue battled out on the BOI and now that it went haywire so many times 2 of the people are suspended so instead of having a nice and proper battle over the issue its pretty much closed.

 

[Chris@TSE]

BTW, The name is L.Poe-Groovy Geckos and he is claiming it to be his mothers account, which is obvious BS. I was not aware that he made such a name but he went a step further and made it quite obvious by sending me a personal message claiming to be his mother. Low and behold, it was typed EXACTLY as Dan types. But obviously he ("she") denied it...

Here is a link to the profile: http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/forums/member.php?u=20161

And here is the message that was sent, as you can see for yourself it SCREAMS Dan Poe. I believe in a previous post I had mentioned "all hell breaking loose" and obviously he could not respond to the post. Therefore he created a new username, and titled the message "Hell Breaking Loose"

[/i]Hell breaking loose

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

"LOL" Yes , it is so funny Chris . It is not a pretty picture that you helped to paint of my son and our business name .
Danny is only trying to defend the "bad name" that you have helped create for us , including our friend Dan Lubinsky .

Now would be the time ,to start making some public and personal appologies reguarding this matter , as you can see noone has lied , and I will vouch for my Son giving our animals the best of care , day in and day out . He gives alot more credit than most when a breeder tells him a $1250 dollar animal is "Established" , and I would agree , it had better be . Yes he took a a small risk , without my knowledge and introduced a few females after Juneau`s first fecal-exam . All have repeatedly tested negative (including Juneau )for any parasites since then ,and has been written off as misdiagnosis by our new veterinarian .

We are receiving vet-certification for all of our breeders and any animals that will be sold in the future . This will serve as proof of libeleous comments made in an attempt to stiffle my Son and our business.
Good Day[/i]

 

[Chris@TSE]

Woops, screwed up the italic code... You get the idea

 

[dragonflyreptiles]

Maybe she doesn't understand (if it is his mom) that he did this to himself and that its about HOW he got the snow AND how he jumped to breeding it as soon as he got it AND how he claimed the parasites himself.

 

[Chris@TSE]

Of course not. from the very begining he has blamed everything HE has done on someone else. It seems anyone who points out something he has done wrong is at fault. Its classic denial.....

"Oh no, you told everyone what I did, this is all your fault!"

Cry me a river.... lol

 

[shrap]

If Poe really thinks anyone is going to believe this is his mom he is nuts. Now if she had ever posted here or had her own name here prior to him getting suspended..... but like this it is just too obvious. And sad to be honest about it. One would think she would have come to his defense long before now if she really felt like he and their business was wronged. Somehow I get the feeling mom knows nothing about any of this.

Like I said in the original BOI thread about this. I can understand his desire to get one of the Macks, although I would not have personally chose the path he took. And personally I do not think that situation alone was enough to condemn the man or his character. But between coming here pretending to be his mom (which is a real insult to everyones intelligence by the way) and trying to circumvent the rules here is making me not want to give him the benefit of the doubt any longer about his character.

 

[WebSlave]

Sure wish I had the powers that people here seem to think I have. The power to "see all and know all" would be pretty handy to have, no doubt.

No, I don't check on every new registration here, and no I don't read every post in every thread. So for someone to claim that a new registration is "obviously" bogus and I "should" have taken care of it using my psychic powers to divine such things is making a pretty long stretch here.

So if you all don't contact me specifically about these issues and give me details, no they will not be addressed. I am NOT going to go seeking them out.

Be that as it may, I have deleted that user name L.Poe-Groovy Geckos. Anyone creating a new user name to bypass their suspension can expect this to happen when discovered and have the fine increased accordingly. This also goes on a permanent record here that will show up in searches and be an indicator to people that are looking for evidence of their worthiness to do business with. So they play games with this system at their own risk.

As for this thread in general, I stated my warning PLAINLY and when it was further flaunted, I acted on it. Pretty black and white. You flaunt the rules at your own risk and pay the consequences. If you all want this site to have no rules, then fine with me. But I guarantee you won't like the results.

 

[leaftail]

Actually, to me the personal message from L.Poe to Chris sounded like a different person than Dan. I think it could very well have been his mother. And one of the posts made by groovygeckos on the now-infamous "Mack Snows" thread also sounded to me like it wasn't Dan: http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/forums/showthread.php?t=68180&page=11&pp=5 post #53. This was before the suspensions and the creation of the username L.Poe-Groovygeckos, but I remember reading it and thinking "I bet that was his mother posting - it doesn't sound like Dan." And Linda Poe is not suspended from fauna. So if she does choose to register here and post, we better not accidently lock her out. That's not right.

 

[Golden Gate Geckos]

writing analysis

"LOL" Yes , it is so funny Chris . It is not a pretty picture that you helped to paint of my son and our business name .
Danny is only trying to defend the "bad name" that you have helped create for us , including our friend Dan Lubinsky .

Now would be the time ,to start making some public and personal appologies reguarding this matter , as you can see noone has lied , and I will vouch for my Son giving our animals the best of care , day in and day out . He gives alot more credit than most when a breeder tells him a $1250 dollar animal is "Established" , and I would agree , it had better be . Yes he took a a small risk , without my knowledge and introduced a few females after Juneau`s first fecal-exam . All have repeatedly tested negative (including Juneau )for any parasites since then ,and has been written off as misdiagnosis by our new veterinarian .

We are receiving vet-certification for all of our breeders and any animals that will be sold in the future . This will serve as proof of libeleous comments made in an attempt to stiffle my Son and our business.
Good Day

I agree that "if" this is Mrs. Poe, she has every right to make posts... but I do have to say she types just like her son, because 'they' both skip spaces before and after punctuations in their sentencing. Just an observation...

 

[Chris@TSE]

So if you all don't contact me specifically about these issues and give me details, no they will not be addressed. I am NOT going to go seeking them out.

Since when are "psychic powers" needed when something as simple as an email suffices?

You received an email on tuesday in response to an email you had sent me regarding the fines I paid for Alex and Steve which were refused. In this email I included the fact that Dan Poe had created a new account after being fined and suspended. I figured if you were interested in this information you would have researched it on your own and dealt with it or asked me for the exact name and then dealt with it. You never replied so I figured you were handling it on your end.

And just in case.........

Here is your email to me after I sent payment for Steve and Alexs' fines, before I knew that you were no longer allowing members to pay other members fines.

----- Original Message -----


From: fauna [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Tuesday, May 03, 2005 12:44 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Steve & Alex's Fine


Please forward the emails from those two members requesting that you pay their fine for them. Otherwise this payment will be refunded to you. I caught some flak from a lot of people by allowing someone else to do this, so evidently this is not universally approved of by the membership.


Rich Zuchowski
[email protected]
[email protected]
(850) 926-6248
http://www.SerpenCo.com
http://www.FaunaClassifieds.com
http://www.GunWantAds.com
http://www.FaunaArt.com
http://www.FaunaBooks.com
http://www.CornSnakes.com
http://www.FaunaTopSites.com
http://www.FaunaNet.com
http://www.ArmsLocker.com


And my email in reply.... All but the last paragraph has been removed in respect to private discussion. There was also an addition reply from you Rich but it did not have anything to do with the additional screen name I had mentioned, only our previous conversation.

From: C. Johnson
To: 'fauna'
Sent: Tuesday, May 03, 2005 12:49 PM
Subject: RE: Steve & Alex's Fine



As requested I took such conversation to the BOI. I’ve agreed with the majority of your actions and decisions in the past, and look forward to helping fauna as I have in the past, but this time I do believe I have to say I disagree with the actions. I believe that thread should have been simply closed. Dan went out of his way to bait further discussion. He has also now created an additional account he claims is his mothers after he was suspended and fined.

Either way I hope you don’t take my disagreement personally….. Talk to you later Rich.

C. Johnson
Owner - Top Shelf Exotics
Email: [email protected]
Toll Free Phone: 1-877-REPT1LE (1-877-737-8153) Extension 801
Electronic Fax: 309-215-6223
Visit us on the Web! www.TopShelfExotic.com
---------------------------------------------------------------------------


Perhaps this was just an oversight, but alas no psychic powers are needed.


And as for your warnings in those threads, as I stated earlier they were perfectly clear hence my lack of contribution to the off topic discussion. I did however have a concern regarding those who were fined and those who were not after said warnings, but after further review I can see that there is a fine line. Specifically those who continued discussion related to Dan Poe. I guess I misunderstood the warning as pertaining to "off topic discussion" in general, my mistake.

 

[Chris@TSE]

Actually, to me the personal message from L.Poe to Chris sounded like a different person than Dan. I think it could very well have been his mother. And one of the posts made by groovygeckos on the now-infamous "Mack Snows" thread also sounded to me like it wasn't Dan: http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/forums/showthread.php?t=68180&page=11&pp=5 post #53. This was before the suspensions and the creation of the username L.Poe-Groovygeckos, but I remember reading it and thinking "I bet that was his mother posting - it doesn't sound like Dan." And Linda Poe is not suspended from fauna. So if she does choose to register here and post, we better not accidently lock her out. That's not right.

The typing style is identical. The words used and knowledge of detail is also identical. Also, he was cut short in mid argument by his fine\suspension and unable to reply. But since he simply cannot wait to pay his fine and then retort he created the screen name shortly thereafter in order to send me a unsolicited personal message as a reply since he was unable to post it. Either way, I do believe he has mention on NUMEROUS occasion that he shares his business with his mother, and the screen name groovygeckos represented said business. If it is suspended and fined that allows you to create seperate identities to avoid such restrictions? So If I get banned I should send Patrick on here to create a different name and represent my stance on a subject. I do not think so, It would be banned in a heartbeat!

I do believe everyone deserves the benifit of doubt, but he has lost this benifit due to his own actions in the past. At least in my book.....

Not to mention the similarities are more than just simple cooincidence....

 

[WebSlave]

I agree that "if" this is Mrs. Poe, she has every right to make posts... but I do have to say she types just like her son, because 'they' both skip spaces before and after punctuations in their sentencing. Just an observation...

Not necessarily. We have seen countless examples of people pretending to be someone else on this site. How do you prove it? I mean REALLY prove who is on that keyboard saying they are who they say they are?

In a case where someone got suspended from this site and are presenting them selves as a "mom and son" business, then in a case like this, then one is acting as a representative of the other, in my opinion. This is not some large corporation we are talking about, we are talking about a small enough organization that they can easily be considered as a single entity for purposes of dealing with them as a business. More likely then not, each one would say exactly what the other one would anyway, and probably both would be participating in the construction of any post made here.

As such, no, unless I hear of an overwhelming reason why I should do otherwise, in cases like this where one person has gotten suspended and fined, anyone else registering that is a CLOSE personal relation to the suspended person, be it mother, brother, sister, father, husband, wife, etc., or a "partner", they will be considered as ONE unit. I hate to use a "presumption of guilt" stance here, but quite honestly, it is my opinion that most people would not expect any better, ethically, from some people suspended for legitimate reasons anyway.

 

[WebSlave]

Since when are "psychic powers" needed when something as simple as an email suffices?

You received an email on tuesday in response to an email you had sent me regarding the fines I paid for Alex and Steve which were refused. In this email I included the fact that Dan Poe had created a new account after being fined and suspended. I figured if you were interested in this information you would have researched it on your own and dealt with it or asked me for the exact name and then dealt with it. You never replied so I figured you were handling it on your end.

Yeah, like I didn't have other things on my mind at the time. Yeah, I read it, but I figured it couldn't be all that all fired up of a problem to you if you couldn't even send me the NAME of this person. No, you wanted ME to look for it instead. You figured I would "research it" or I would have to fire off another email and ask you for it? Thanks a lot.

Seriously, do you all really think I have nothing better to do but to sit at the computer all day long and read everything you all type in here? Do you really think that there is any possibility at all that these mountains you are staring at just may be molehills to someone else? Maybe a LOT of someone elses! Now this is going to come to a shock to some people, I know it, but sit down and hold onto something while I say it: Some people REALLY don't give a rip about that Mack Snow Leopard Gecko issue! Yeah there are some issues about it, but it is NOT the all consuming, world eating, end of the universe problem that some people are hell bent on trying to make it into. IT WILL NEVER MAKE THE FRONTPAGE NEWS IN YOUR LOCAL NEWSPAPER!

Sheesh! People have gotten suspended over it, and people are getting all worked up into a lather in the aftermath. Why don't all of you involved in this issue just go take a cold shower, take a few drinks and get over yourselves with this damned thing.

 

[leaftail]

I hate to use a "presumption of guilt" stance here, but quite honestly, it is my opinion that most people would not expect any better, ethically, from some people suspended for legitimate reasons anyway.

If it were me, I have gone a little farther in the direction of "benefit of the doubt". If it was Dan speaking, it wouldn't have taken long before he gave himself away. I do see your point in considering "Groovy Geckos" as an entity, and suspending it as such. I just feel uncomfortable about (possibly) condemning an unknown person by association. But then again, simply paying the $10 fine to lift the suspension is not a huge hardship either, so ... I need to take a pill and lie down now.

 

[Chris@TSE]

Perhaps its just me, or am I the only one who thinks Rich needs a vacation? Jesus.....