Reptster.com experience with show sponsorship not good

[Seamus Haley]

Apparently you do.... so with that being the case... I should only have to pay fedx the same amount RIPster has to pay for the same package.

its the exact same service...they are moving my box from point A to point B... it wont make any difference from where it picks up.. to where it ends... that has been set.

The only difference is he prob gets a cheaper rate than I do... but it is exactly the same service.

Hmmmm.... I think your off base here.

Different situation entirely. Reptster is offering a service of legally moving packages containing animals in compliance with the lacey act *to people who do not have the ability themselves* If he were transporting them himself, even then it would be two competing companies and their pricing would only be relevant to the end consumer looking for a deal.

By offering identical services at different prices to different individuals, the Kordeks are a single company that's switching things up on their customers. It'd be more like going into a store and paying $X for the exact same product when the guy behind you in line pays $Y.

Different services can justify different costs but Kelly said that the specific package laid out as a "Sponsor Package" was what both entities got... if they were charged different amounts for that identical service, that's scumbag behavior.

 

[Southern Wolf]

actually its not.

Fed X has to pick up from their location and ship to the reciepient (sp?)... doesnt matter if I ship thru my shipper number or RIPsters. Its the same service. The only thing that changes was whos number got used.

So why should he have to pay less than I do? The mileage didnt change... the box size didnt change... the weight didnt change. But yet he may not have to pay as much as me. Why does FedX prey on the little guy. To make up for the discounts they give to the big guy.

You put the question out there... so now am I

 

[Southern Wolf]

uggg... .I cant edit my posts

So here's the thing... If I agree to pay fedX's prices.. where does that leave me. I accepted the contract. I cant blame the big guy for getting a discount... especially if Im willing to pay the price and still use the service.

Same thing in Kelly's situation.

Lets say that RIPster was getting charged 750... and joe blow was only getting charged 500. Maybe RIPster was recieving more in return... like the headliner spot on the ads.

 

[kmurphy]

Seamus wrote in reference to the Kordeks.

Your attempts to collect payment for services you never rendered are just as dirty and just as thieving as his attempt to not pay you.

And have the decency to demand what you're actually owed, not a fictional number based on services you never delivered and never will.

. That's just as much an act of theft as his ambiguous withdrawl was.

Have fliers actually been reprinted and redistributed?

At this point I'd have to see proof to believe it, like dated receipts for printing and copies of the fliers.

So I can know how much David stole by not following through with his commitment and how much they tried to steal from him by demanding payment for things he never received.

Not really sure why you're so demanding and demeaning of the Kordeks Seamus. They've been here and answered everything as professionally as they can. So they're inexperienced and naive. They've admitted to that and it's not a crime. If David had opened up any kind of dialog with them this thread wouldn't be here. Who knows what kind of agreement they would have come to if David had done the right thing. Well we never know will we, because David didn't do the right thing and still hasn't.

Whether the Kordeks are owed 750, or any portion there of, is immaterial to me. They're here, they're willing to answer questions and listen to another point of view. Insinuating that they're dishonest and attempting to steal from David is unfair IMO.

 

[jayefbe]

And as far as I can tell, Seamus, they're not asking for or even expecting the money at this point. This thread, as I'm sure I've seen Kelly post, wasn't meant to recoup the $750 they felt they were owed. It was to share their experience with David to the reptile community at large.

Yes, it would be totally outlandish for them to expect full payment at this point. I do feel that they do deserve some monetary compensation for their time and expenses, but it seems highly unlikely that they will receive anything from David at all. In any case, if David decides to attempt to make things right, the final sum should be determined between those two parties.

I do not know why you are reacting so venomously to them. It's pretty ridiculous, and to be honest, I hesitated in posting anything to you as I didn't want to become the subject of your wrath. The Kordeks have done nothing to arouse my suspicions, let alone cause me to even dream that they're attempting to surreptitiously make money off of this incident. They were very naive in many regards, but many that are scammed and cheated in this industry are. Your behavior towards them just seems incredibly out of line.

 

[HappyHillbilly]

Okay, color me stupid but I fail to understand what all the dispute is about.
Ms. Kordek offered a service for some amount of money, Mr. Young agreed to pay some amount of money for that service, Ms. Kordek provided that service, Mr. Young paid nothing for that service.
Excuses and bad judgment aside, the fact that Mr. Young DID make an agreement for the services of Ms. Kordek and refused to follow up on his end of the agreement after the service was provided.
Mr. Young has not disputed the fact that he did make some agreement to pay for a service, he has only made excuses for why he did not pay what he agreed to which was provided.
You can try to spin it any way you like but the facts are still basically the same leading to the same conclusion; Mr. Young is not to be trusted until you have the money in your hand.

Dang if that ain't a breath of fresh air! Thank you, John!

For those of you that aren't aware, in the US court systems an oral contract is just as legally binding as a written one. Period. Yes, they are generally harder to prove but that doesn't reduce the legality of them.

I think it's safe to say that a contract for services was agreed upon by both parties, even though one party now disputes the price of that contract.

It appears to me that Kely has proven her e-mail to be genuine where David has yet to do so. Therefore, the contract is still very much alive and remains in effect until they actually receive some form of contact from David cancelling their service. Merely posting a cancellation notice in the middle of a 150-page forum discussion is NOT acceptable by any stretch of the imagination in the legal sense.

If the Kordeks wanted to really rack up the charges they can resume fulfilling their contract, man a booth at their show for Reptster and righfully pursue the matter in a court of law. (For the record, I don't advise that. I'm just simply saying that they have a legal right to do so. And with the judges on today's benches, anything's possible.)

Seamus,
With all due respect & nothing personal, I believe you've got the cart miles ahead of the horses. I believe the Kordeks have stated their claim that they are owed $750. That is par for course in legal filings. It appears to me that what you are seeking is a settlement amount, but I feel that it's premature.

In court cases, which I do consider this exact scenario to be, settlements are only sought after an aknowledgement of funds owed, OR, they are sought as a means to settle a difference, period. However, they are traditionally sought by defendant, which in this case is David Young.

While I can see, and admire, neutral parties seeking a settlement figure, I can't help but feel that the bottom line is that it's doing the dirty work for David. That, I do not agree with. Let David deal with it. It's rather obvious to anyone/everyone reading this David has no intentions whatsoever to settle this matter. So I say, "Let the coals burn where they lie." And I say that without partiality.

For those few of you that have thrown out shameless, baseless allegations, insults, and other derogatories, unless you know Kelly Kordek and/or David Young personally (which I do not), I'm trying to figure out where you're coming from. Some people are obviously getting emotionally involved. Conspiracy theories & criminal pasts? Chill out, take a step back & think before you post that message. These are the things that turn a 2-page Good Guy/Bad Guy thread into a novel.

Alan Belcher,
I don't know you. I've got to be honest with you. That potshot you took at Kelly was totally uncalled for and really, really, makes you look bad.

You see, I'm a potential customer of yours. Potential customers read these forums and even though you're caught up in the heat of the moment and specifically talking to someone else, we interpret it as a generalized statement. That's the way it is.

I've read all the threads here about you. Did that many moons ago. But I'm one of the fairest, nonjudgmental, people you'll ever meet. I've kept an open mind about you, willing to find out on my own. I observed you at Repticon Atlanta a few months ago. I looked at your animals, I watched & listened to how you dealt with people. The following week I gave you a plug in a message to two fellow snake enthusiasts based on what I saw.

Here's the kicker, Alan. If that Atlanta show was this coming weekend instead of two months ago, after reading that potshot you took at Kelly, you'd a never got the chance. I wouldn't have slowed down or even looked at your table, your animals, or you. But because of what I did see, and my understanding of how we all can get caught up in things, I will most likely still give you the benefit of the doubt. Somewhat, at least.

Is there any possible way that this thread can go from here on out without any personal attacks on the Kordecks, David Young, and/or anyone else posting? What happened to "class"? If you forgot what it looks like, read Kelly Kordek's posts. She has been a class act.

Can't people disagree without hating? Can't we have two friends, even though they may not get along with each other?

Now, back to the FACTS................

Have a good one!
Michael Sanders

 

[Chandler Reptiles]

It does help me see David in a different light because you can just say he didn't pay advertising fees but those of us who haven't ever done any of this (advertising, fliers, setting up web space, etc...) can get a better idea of what exactly is involved that David is not paying for.

 

[GottaLuvHerps]

My day is going to be very busy, so I will not have a lot of time to respond to things. Here is my "morning statement" for some of you to chew on until I have the chance to get back here. BTW, I do not sign out of this thread at all and neither does Matthew, it sits all day on the screen in a tab so that I can simply refresh the page to catch up on things. Just because my name is at the bottom today does not mean I am actively reading the thread (in case anyone wants to question THIS aspect of things).

Seamus, last night you played an excellent game, and you almost won. You almost got me to come out of my professional shell and start screaming and yelling and letting my emotions take over for me in my responses to you - believe me, if you would have been in my house last night, that side of me and Matthew were VERY obvious to anyone on our block I think. I was angry, and was confused at the same time as to why you decided to throw around the insults and name calling that you did (see Kevin's quotes above). I have NEVER in this thread personally attacked ANYONE (ok, I may have come close with Terry or Allen a few times), but never ONCE did I start slinging mud. Not even to Mr. Young. And you almost got me to do it to you. Nice try. But, it didn't work.

All I want to ask you is WHY you have felt the need to make the personal attacks you did? I have never interacted with you before, except for maybe on a random BOI thread, I have done nothing to you, I have remained professional throughout this thread, and I have answered any and all questions anyone has asked me. I have provided the proof that is USUALLY good enough on the BOI to state my case effectively, and, I believe, have gone a few steps above. What else do you want from me, blood? My only assumption is that you either just wanted to pick a fight, or that you had a conversation with someone (maybe Mr. Young) that made you feel compelled to come out in such a manner. Maybe those assumptions are just wrong, and you were just having a bad night and I was the target for whatever reason. Whatever the case, it was uncalled for.

You know, in the end it doesn't matter. This thread with 42,000+ views and nearly 700 replies boils down to one thing - Mr. Young owes us money for services provided and advertising done on his behalf. Mr. Young refuses to contact us directly to discuss this in any way, shape or form so that we can try to come to an agreement.

You want to hear about what is fair and what is a reasonable amount he owes us. Well, how about Mr. Young asking those questions to us? How about Mr. Young manning up and contacting us to discuss these things, as it really is between the 2 parties directly involved to come to that decision. Maybe he can present a valid argument to us as to why he feels he does not owe us the $750, and we can settle things, maybe not. But he will never know until he contacts us. We have never shut our door (or turned off the phone ringer or blocked his email address) to him, he has, however, chosen not to communicate with us. We have stated repeatedly that if an agreement is reached, I will post it up for the world to see. Will I ever use or recommend Mr. Young's service, and is there a chance for him to continue his sponsorship with us? Absolutely not. But this does not mean I will not be fair and post up if there is a resolution. But in order for any resolution to be found, I need a phone call or email from Mr. Young. Do I think that is going to happen? Absolutely not, as the pattern indicates this.

The one thing I do want to address is the idea that you say we are being underhanded scumbags (I believe those were your words, it was close at least) by having 2 different arrangements with our sponsors for the same services provided. Well, I still will NOT disclose any part of our agreement with our other sponsor, as it is personal and confidential between the 2 of us. All I will say is that our other sponsor has fulfilled every part of our agreement, and has lived up to his word in every way, and I believe he feels the same way, or he would approach us about his feelings. But, did it ever occur to you that maybe our arrangement was different because our other sponsor was able to offer us something different than Mr. Young, and vise versa? We have every right to make a decision on how those situations are handled for OUR SHOWS. Simple as that, it is OUR show, and WE have the right to decide how our business dealings are handled for OUR show, whether anyone agrees or disagrees who is not directly involved in those dealings is not important. Who knows, maybe he is paying more, maybe he didn't give us a penny, but it was an agreement reached by 2 parties, and it is between us. Why it matters so much to you, I do not know, and at this point do not care. It is what it is and you can scratch your head and call us names all you want after making your ASSUMPTIONS about what that deal may be.

Seamus, this will be the last response to you that I will have, unless you have something valid and reasonable to say to me. I tell my children all the time when they are acting like little hoodlums and I choose to use the "ignore" tactic - when you take the time to respect me, I will respect you. The difference is, I have yet to disrespect you, you came out swinging. So, I will say to you - approach me with some respect, and I will come back with it. Disrespect me, and I will just ignore you. You just aren't worth my time anymore.

To everyone else, I am still reachable by phone and email today, so if anyone wants/needs to contact me, MOST ESPECIALLY MR. YOUNG, I am available until about 5pm this evening, and then again after about 8pm until about 10pm by phone, email whenever. My day today needs to be spent on other show issues, other business issues, and on my personal life getting back into the swing of normality from all of the energy I have put into this post thus far. I guess you can say I have decided to take a few steps back from the keyboard on this issue, and unless I really NEED to answer someone or say something, do not expect much from me today. If this makes me a bad person or not professional, so be it. I think I have earned the right to take a break. If anyone disagrees, right now, I just don't care.

To those that have supported us in any way, and to those that have remained professional even if you haven't agreed with our position or parts of it, we want to thank you.

Kelly Kordek

 

[The BoidSmith]

Dang if that ain't a breath of fresh air! Thank you, John!

For those of you that aren't aware, in the US court systems an oral contract is just as legally binding as a written one. Period. Yes, they are generally harder to prove but that doesn't reduce the legality of them.

I think it's safe to say that a contract for services was agreed upon by both parties, even though one party now disputes the price of that contract.

It appears to me that Kely has proven her e-mail to be genuine where David has yet to do so. Therefore, the contract is still very much alive and remains in effect until they actually receive some form of contact from David cancelling their service. Merely posting a cancellation notice in the middle of a 150-page forum discussion is NOT acceptable by any stretch of the imagination in the legal sense.

If the Kordeks wanted to really rack up the charges they can resume fulfilling their contract, man a booth at their show for Reptster and righfully pursue the matter in a court of law. (For the record, I don't advise that. I'm just simply saying that they have a legal right to do so. And with the judges on today's benches, anything's possible.)

Seamus,
With all due respect & nothing personal, I believe you've got the cart miles ahead of the horses. I believe the Kordeks have stated their claim that they are owed $750. That is par for course in legal filings. It appears to me that what you are seeking is a settlement amount, but I feel that it's premature.

In court cases, which I do consider this exact scenario to be, settlements are only sought after an aknowledgement of funds owed, OR, they are sought as a means to settle a difference, period. However, they are traditionally sought by defendant, which in this case is David Young.

While I can see, and admire, neutral parties seeking a settlement figure, I can't help but feel that the bottom line is that it's doing the dirty work for David. That, I do not agree with. Let David deal with it. It's rather obvious to anyone/everyone reading this David has no intentions whatsoever to settle this matter. So I say, "Let the coals burn where they lie." And I say that without partiality.

For those few of you that have thrown out shameless, baseless allegations, insults, and other derogatories, unless you know Kelly Kordek and/or David Young personally (which I do not), I'm trying to figure out where you're coming from. Some people are obviously getting emotionally involved. Conspiracy theories & criminal pasts? Chill out, take a step back & think before you post that message. These are the things that turn a 2-page Good Guy/Bad Guy thread into a novel.

Alan Belcher,
I don't know you. I've got to be honest with you. That potshot you took at Kelly was totally uncalled for and really, really, makes you look bad.

You see, I'm a potential customer of yours. Potential customers read these forums and even though you're caught up in the heat of the moment and specifically talking to someone else, we interpret it as a generalized statement. That's the way it is.

I've read all the threads here about you. Did that many moons ago. But I'm one of the fairest, nonjudgmental, people you'll ever meet. I've kept an open mind about you, willing to find out on my own. I observed you at Repticon Atlanta a few months ago. I looked at your animals, I watched & listened to how you dealt with people. The following week I gave you a plug in a message to two fellow snake enthusiasts based on what I saw.

Here's the kicker, Alan. If that Atlanta show was this coming weekend instead of two months ago, after reading that potshot you took at Kelly, you'd a never got the chance. I wouldn't have slowed down or even looked at your table, your animals, or you. But because of what I did see, and my understanding of how we all can get caught up in things, I will most likely still give you the benefit of the doubt. Somewhat, at least.

Is there any possible way that this thread can go from here on out without any personal attacks on the Kordecks, David Young, and/or anyone else posting? What happened to "class"? If you forgot what it looks like, read Kelly Kordek's posts. She has been a class act.

Can't people disagree without hating? Can't we have two friends, even though they may not get along with each other?

Now, back to the FACTS................

Have a good one!
Michael Sanders

And that's an excellent post Mike. Where have you been all these years?

 

[shrap]

I guess you can say I have decided to take a few steps back from the keyboard on this issue, and unless I really NEED to answer someone or say something, do not expect much from me today. If this makes me a bad person or not professional, so be it. I think I have earned the right to take a break. If anyone disagrees, right now, I just don't care.

You have been here more than enough. You have answered every question that needs answered. I dont really know what else needs hashed out here on the BOI. From this point on anything else that really needs to be said needs to be said between you and David.

As far as the peanut gallery goes, just ignore them. People here will knit pick, micro analyze and play "what if" until the cows come home. Ignore it. You have answered every reasonable question that can be asked. Go play with your kids, have a nice dinner with Matt and forget this thread is even here for a couple of days.

 

[big daddy's wholesal]

Kelly bottomline is that in this business you have got to have money in hand before you provide an animal or a service. How many times have you been to a show and someone said something simular to this: Do you have a card? I get paid next week and I will call you and get this if you still have it!
Sound familiar to anyone?
When we did our show in Atlanta Zoo Med was sending us door prizes, They told us that we would be receiving a crate with approximately 1200.00 in door prizes. What a joke we received 2 small boxes and had to pull products from our own pet stores to have nice door prizes.
We had people back out on us, just as you had here. Also this will not be the only time this happens to you if you continue to do shows. So what have you gained here. Repster will never sponsor anything you do ( and you are probably glad of that) but what about the other people who actually do like David and he has influence over, you probably lost them as well. Also people who might be on the fence about doing your show probably will not call you until they are sure they can commit because they are thinking what happens if I back out, I don't want to be on the BOI. You gained some friends here for bringing this here, but you also gained some enemys and more importantly got alot of peoples attention which isn't always a good thing.
My advice is in the future kill them with kindness, For example: Well David I am sorry you can't make the show but maybe next time. We are going to have another one on ------------- and we would love for you to attend. Seeing as how your business is based in the South we feel it would be a huge assest for your company to be presented up here in our area.
Just a thought and only my opinion not a third parties!
Allen Belcher 706-615-4772

 

[JudyC]

Kelly bottomline is that in this business you have got to have money in hand before you provide an animal or a service. How many times have you been to a show and someone said something simular to this: Do you have a card? I get paid next week and I will call you and get this if you still have it!
Sound familiar to anyone?

I just have to ask...how many times do you feel they need to be beaten over the head with this??? You and others have pointed out "the lesson" ad nauseum...and over and over again, Kelly has said they GET IT! Enough already!

When we did our show in Atlanta Zoo Med was sending us door prizes, They told us that we would be receiving a crate with approximately 1200.00 in door prizes. What a joke we received 2 small boxes and had to pull products from our own pet stores to have nice door prizes.
We had people back out on us, just as you had here. Also this will not be the only time this happens to you if you continue to do shows.

How is this the least bit relevant to the discussion at hand?

So what have you gained here. Repster will never sponsor anything you do ( and you are probably glad of that) but what about the other people who actually do like David and he has influence over, you probably lost them as well.

If David "has influence" over people enough that they refuse to do business with someone that David screwed over simply because he was called onto the carpet for it...WHY would that be a loss for Kelly or anyone like her?

Also people who might be on the fence about doing your show probably will not call you until they are sure they can commit because they are thinking what happens if I back out, I don't want to be on the BOI.

Have you not actually read what happened? NO ONE would have been on the BOI at all had David simply communicated his concerns and desire for a fair resolution in the first place. Anyone who is "on the fence" enough to be unable to see that and think Kelly is out to "get" anyone who dares to back out of a hypothetical deal...once again, why would the loss of their business be a loss to Kelly?

You gained some friends here for bringing this here, but you also gained some enemys and more importantly got alot of peoples attention which isn't always a good thing.

The only "enemies" I've seen her gain throughout all of this are people I would likely not want to do business with anyhow. Not a single one of them presented themselves with the least bit of professionalism or intelligence. Besides....nobody is anybody in this "industry" unless you have a few enemies. No matter how nice, sincere, trustworthy, and professional a person is....SOMEone is going to hate them for it.

My advice is in the future kill them with kindness, For example: Well David I am sorry you can't make the show but maybe next time. We are going to have another one on ------------- and we would love for you to attend. Seeing as how your business is based in the South we feel it would be a huge assest for your company to be presented up here in our area.

Had David communicated with them from the moment he first had "second thoughts" about this entire sponsorship deal, I have no doubt that is exactly what they would have done.

This whole post makes it sound like legitimate people should be afraid to use the BOI to hold folks accountable for their word. I beg to differ. Yes, it draws attention to both parties, and as we've seen here and in countless other threads, BOTH sides will get raked over the coals, no matter who is right....but for many of us, a little cross-examination and even unreasonable criticism is worth standing up for what is right.

I don't usually just jump into these threads unless I have some direct experience to share. I don't know Kelly...have never met her or talked with her at all....and will likely never attend her shows because I don't live in that part of the country. But you can be sure I will be happy to attend and support her shows should the opportunity present itself.

I DO know David and have spoken with him on several occasions. I'm deeply disappointed and still holding out hope that he'll come around and choose to do the right thing in all of this.

 

[GottaLuvHerps]

My advice is in the future

...

Allen, your advice to me means about as much as Mr. Young's promises to pay do at this point. After attacking us, calling us idiots, and just generally being the person you have been towards us, your advice is respectfully declined on ANYTHING business related. I hope you understand.

 

[homegrownherps]

How many times have you been to a show and someone said something simular to this: Do you have a card? I get paid next week and I will call you and get this if you still have it!
Sound familiar to anyone?

I am sure just about every vendor has heard that 100's of times.....But how many of them say " well here then , take the animal now and pay when you have the money?


How does that have anything to do with this incident?

 

[MiIguanaLvr]

...

Allen, your advice to me means about as much as Mr. Young's promises to pay do at this point. After attacking us, calling us idiots, and just generally being the person you have been towards us, your advice is respectfully declined on ANYTHING business related. I hope you understand.

Handled beautifully Kelly. You showed a lot of class and dignity in the way you have handled yourself in this whole thread.
For that alone you should be very proud of yourself.
It can be very hard to stay composed when you feel under attack. Some here have had some vailid questions that were posed to you. My problem has not been with the questions but with the way some of those questions were asked and the general attitude of the person asking.

I doubt I could have stayed as composed and professional as you have.

 

[shrap]

Kelly bottomline is that in this business you have got to have money in hand before you provide an animal or a service. How many times have you been to a show and someone said something simular to this: Do you have a card? I get paid next week and I will call you and get this if you still have it!
Sound familiar to anyone?

People keep saying this and I keep thinking how completely irrelevant. An animal is not the same as a show. You dont often see a written agreement when buying/selling an animal. There is no need because it is a pretty cut and dried transaction. If the person never calls back you simply sell it to someone else.

Sponsoring a show on the other hand is a completely different animal (no pun intended). It is a several week to several month endeavor between the sponsor and the promoter. There is work being done, money being spent and services being rendered throughout the entire time period. So backing out 2 months into the agreement is not the same, not even close, to backing out of buying an animal. So can that crap.

We had people back out on us, just as you had here. Also this will not be the only time this happens to you if you continue to do shows.

Agreed. But Kelly and Matt have learned countless valuable lessons from this that is going to go a long way in minimizing the damages sponsors and vendors can do them. It will also help them be more successful in the future, not the other way around.

So what have you gained here. Repster will never sponsor anything you do ( and you are probably glad of that) but what about the other people who actually do like David and he has influence over, you probably lost them as well. Also people who might be on the fence about doing your show probably will not call you until they are sure they can commit because they are thinking what happens if I back out, I don't want to be on the BOI. You gained some friends here for bringing this here, but you also gained some enemys and more importantly got alot of peoples attention which isn't always a good thing.

Now this has to be the biggest load of propaganda that I have seen since I was in Vietnam. Granted I was in Vietnam in 1994, so it was real different than in the 1960's and 1970's.....

Who really gives a rats ass who David has influences over and if he tells them all to boycott me or anyone else. The dude was in the wrong, end of story. I would not support my friends for being in the wrong and I sure as hell would not expect them to support me if I was in the wrong. If they were really my friend they would try to talk some damn sense into me.

I dont think any sponsor or vendor will ever worry about Kelly and Matt unjustly bringing them to the BOI. Because anyone who is unbiased and honest knows this was not brought here unjustly. In fact they were very patient in waiting for as long as they did, but David would not talk to them.

Now back in your hole with you, you Rodent of Unusual Size.

 

[Seamus Haley]

Seamus, last night you played an excellent game, and you almost won. You almost got me to come out of my professional shell and start screaming and yelling and letting my emotions take over for me in my responses to you - believe me, if you would have been in my house last night, that side of me and Matthew were VERY obvious to anyone on our block I think. I was angry, and was confused at the same time as to why you decided to throw around the insults and name calling that you did (see Kevin's quotes above). I have NEVER in this thread personally attacked ANYONE (ok, I may have come close with Terry or Allen a few times), but never ONCE did I start slinging mud. Not even to Mr. Young. And you almost got me to do it to you. Nice try. But, it didn't work.

Insults? Name calling? Game?

All I have wanted you to do is acknowledge that less than 100% of what you had agreed to do was done and that you're thus owed less than 100% of what was agreed upon. And that demanding more than you were owed was an attempt at theft. Which you pretty much have acknowledged the substance of. So I... guess I won... something?

All I want to ask you is WHY you have felt the need to make the personal attacks you did?

I made impersonal statements because I have no personal investment in the outcome of this situation. I suppose all I can do is deny that personal attacks were made and promise you that if I choose to personally attack anyone in the future, the difference will be very evident.

My only assumption is that you either just wanted to pick a fight, or that you had a conversation with someone (maybe Mr. Young) that made you feel compelled to come out in such a manner. Maybe those assumptions are just wrong, and you were just having a bad night and I was the target for whatever reason. Whatever the case, it was uncalled for.

See the above with regards to a fight. I have never spoken to David Young in my life. Those assumptions are wrong and I was not having a bad night, I reject the pigeonholing into one or the other. I don't believe it was uncalled for at all and if you want to continue going around and around over it, I can try expressing my point in multiple ways until you "get it."

You want to hear about what is fair and what is a reasonable amount he owes us. Well, how about Mr. Young asking those questions to us? How about Mr. Young manning up and contacting us to discuss these things, as it really is between the 2 parties directly involved to come to that decision.

While it would have been appropriate for him to contact you and settle this all privately, he didn't. He crossed the threshhold where you felt it was necessary to make it public. It's very difficult to put toothpaste back in a tube once it's out. Forum threads are similar; you wanted to spread the word so others didn't get similarly taken, you likely wanted the vocal support you would get on the matter. You put things out there for others to see, demanding that it be resolved privately because you recieved some very mild criticism of your position seems... off.

The one thing I do want to address is the idea that you say we are being underhanded scumbags (I believe those were your words, it was close at least) by having 2 different arrangements with our sponsors for the same services provided.

[/quote]But, did it ever occur to you that maybe our arrangement was different because our other sponsor was able to offer us something different than Mr. Young, and vise versa?[/quote]

That would be different services provided then. Which is counter to the statements you made about Mr Young accepting a formalized off-the-shelf type promotional package.

We have every right to make a decision on how those situations are handled for OUR SHOWS. Simple as that, it is OUR show, and WE have the right to decide how our business dealings are handled for OUR show, whether anyone agrees or disagrees who is not directly involved in those dealings is not important.

Well, if you want a reputation for trying to nickle and dime your sponsors and bilk them out of every dollar possible while offering identical services to others at a lower cost, leaving them all doubting the quality of the deal they have made, by all means. Used car salesaman it up. It really doesn't hurt me if you want to make yourself look bad.

Seamus, this will be the last response to you that I will have, unless you have something valid and reasonable to say to me. I tell my children all the time when they are acting like little hoodlums and I choose to use the "ignore" tactic - when you take the time to respect me, I will respect you. The difference is, I have yet to disrespect you, you came out swinging. So, I will say to you - approach me with some respect, and I will come back with it. Disrespect me, and I will just ignore you. You just aren't worth my time anymore.

First and foremost, respect is earned, not handed out as a party favor. Secondly, disagreeing with a detail on a position you're holding and an argument you're espousing isn't a question of respect or disrespect. If you do not want people mentioning that you are behaving as a thief, then don't actively attempt to take something from someone else that you never earned. If you want to demand 100% of the fee for less than 100% of the work, you may as well start tacking on garbage litigious phrases and demands as well... why not another $500 for pain and suffering? Or $2000 for Post Traumatic David Young Syndrome? It's about as reasonable as demanding the money for working his table when you won't be doing it.

 

[deborahbroadus]

Insults? Name calling? Game?

All I have wanted you to do is acknowledge that less than 100% of what you had agreed to do was done and that you're thus owed less than 100% of what was agreed upon. And that demanding more than you were owed was an attempt at theft. Which you pretty much have acknowledged the substance of. So I... guess I won... something?



I made impersonal statements because I have no personal investment in the outcome of this situation. I suppose all I can do is deny that personal attacks were made and promise you that if I choose to personally attack anyone in the future, the difference will be very evident.



See the above with regards to a fight. I have never spoken to David Young in my life. Those assumptions are wrong and I was not having a bad night, I reject the pigeonholing into one or the other. I don't believe it was uncalled for at all and if you want to continue going around and around over it, I can try expressing my point in multiple ways until you "get it."



While it would have been appropriate for him to contact you and settle this all privately, he didn't. He crossed the threshhold where you felt it was necessary to make it public. It's very difficult to put toothpaste back in a tube once it's out. Forum threads are similar; you wanted to spread the word so others didn't get similarly taken, you likely wanted the vocal support you would get on the matter. You put things out there for others to see, demanding that it be resolved privately because you recieved some very mild criticism of your position seems... off.

But, did it ever occur to you that maybe our arrangement was different because our other sponsor was able to offer us something different than Mr. Young, and vise versa?[/quote]

That would be different services provided then. Which is counter to the statements you made about Mr Young accepting a formalized off-the-shelf type promotional package.



Well, if you want a reputation for trying to nickle and dime your sponsors and bilk them out of every dollar possible while offering identical services to others at a lower cost, leaving them all doubting the quality of the deal they have made, by all means. Used car salesaman it up. It really doesn't hurt me if you want to make yourself look bad.



First and foremost, respect is earned, not handed out as a party favor. Secondly, disagreeing with a detail on a position you're holding and an argument you're espousing isn't a question of respect or disrespect. If you do not want people mentioning that you are behaving as a thief, then don't actively attempt to take something from someone else that you never earned. If you want to demand 100% of the fee for less than 100% of the work, you may as well start tacking on garbage litigious phrases and demands as well... why not another $500 for pain and suffering? Or $2000 for Post Traumatic David Young Syndrome? It's about as reasonable as demanding the money for working his table when you won't be doing it.[/QUOTE]

Wow..didn't you read Michael Sanders' post? he laid it out pretty well (I was going though my law books to try and refute your supposition that she needed a contract/or list of expenses..but he beat me to it)

 

[deborahbroadus]

Dang!! Quotes in the wrong place. I meant to quote Seamus' last post.

 

[dprince]

Seamus wrote in reference to the Kordeks.

Not really sure why you're so demanding and demeaning of the Kordeks Seamus. They've been here and answered everything as professionally as they can. So they're inexperienced and naive. They've admitted to that and it's not a crime. If David had opened up any kind of dialog with them this thread wouldn't be here. Who knows what kind of agreement they would have come to if David had done the right thing. Well we never know will we, because David didn't do the right thing and still hasn't.

Whether the Kordeks are owed 750, or any portion there of, is immaterial to me. They're here, they're willing to answer questions and listen to another point of view. Insinuating that they're dishonest and attempting to steal from David is unfair IMO.

I was thinking the exact same thing.