Reptster.com experience with show sponsorship not good

[Southern Wolf]

cat I was trying to bring an end to this thread because I don't want it to surpass one of mine.
Allen Belcher 706-615-4772

SO.... you want the glory of having the longest thread.

I definately wont buy one of your animals. Thanks for the lesson... before I ever even got to school.

 

[Mooing Tricycle]

SO.... you want the glory of having the longest thread.

I definately wont buy one of your animals. Thanks for the lesson... before I ever even got to school.

hed have to beat TSE.... Never gonna happen.

 

[TripleMoonsExotic]

Kelly,
Instead of posting a break down of pricing, would it be possible to post the sponsorship levels and what each entails? Maybe an agreement for services rendered can be reached by reviewing and comparing them? It might also help you acquire future sponsorships if that information is readily available on your web site anyway.

 

[GottaLuvHerps]

He did. On this very thread. Prior to the date of the show. Prior to recieving some of the services he had originally requested.

Ok, Seamus, the thing you do not seem to understand on this point is that the only way he "backed out" of the deal on this thread was by posting an email that he has yet to provide proof of (and that we dispute ever was sent). And ok, 3 weeks before the show, he backs out on the deal after ALL of the advertising was done for his business in so many ways.

I don't think it's a waste of time at all... One of the cornerstones of your contention of wrongdoing was the fact that you had paid out of pocket expenses related to that specific sponsorship. Since you apparantly did not have the foresight to write up a set of terms and conditions for the services you intended to render, I would like to know exactly how much you have lost and how much he owes you.

Seamus, we have REPEATEDLY admitted to our naive mistake of not writing up a contract spelling out specific terms. But the terms were agreed to in a conversation, the very FIRST conversation, I had with Mr. Young. In this day and age, a verbal contract is as viable as a written one.
The cornerstone of our "contention of wrongdoing" is that he agreed to pay a certain fee for the sponsorship, and never paid a penny for that sponsorship. We upheld every part of the advertising bargain we agreed to. Mr. Young never even posted up the banner we sent him on his website as agreed. He did not do ANYTHING he told us he was going to do, including sending payment at the agreed times.

His conduct was deplorable, his lack of communication reprehensible, his attitude abominable. However, he was going to be paying a five hundred dollar difference to have someone present at his table acting as his agent since he would not be there himself. Obviously that isn't going to happen, it's not a service that will be delivered, there's that right off the top of the amount he owes.

I am still trying to figure out where you get the idea that the representation of his table at the show is a $500 difference. You are still going with the idea that Mr. Young agreed to a $250 sponsorship, not a $750 sponsorship. This was NEVER the case, and Mr. Young has yet to prove otherwise. Obviously that service will not be delivered, but that was not a part of the terms of the amount of the sponsorship. Mr. Young stated he had no problem paying a higher fee since we were willing to do this for him - there was not a "labor" charge worked into the fee in any way.
The terms of the $750 sponsorship fee were as follows (to clear this up although I believe it has been stated in several posts) - Advertising as our major sponsor on the front page of the webpage (which we have provided screenshots to show that this was done), advertising as the major sponsor on the Sponsors page (which screenshots were also provided earlier to prove this was done), advertising on the fliers as the major sponsor of the show (which was provided much earlier in the thread to prove this was completed), advertising by word of mouth to other breeders, vendors and contacts in the industry we had about his service (which was proven by other posters in this thread), advertising on all banner ads as the major sponsor of the show (which screenshots mentioned above show was completed), mention of him as a sponsor on any forum postings we did (which was pointed out on just one thread alone here on Fauna on 7/8/08 with the offer to find the others), 1 table included for Mr. Young to ship us materials to set up to advertise his business approximately one week before the show (this is the only term of the agreement we will not be able to fulfill because of this situation). THOSE were the terms of the agreement for $750. The actual LABOR of working his table and setting up his materials was NOT included, but was agreed upon at the price indicated by us several times for $750 as a "bonus" service, for lack of better terms.

His table space itself has been earmarked for another purpose, he won't be using it and you (apparantly, please correct me if I am wrong) never set out a list of terms regarding cancellations, notice of cancellations or deposits. There's a table fee he doesn't owe.

The table space has NOT been earmarked for other purposes. We did make an offer to Rich to use the table for him to advertise Fauna, but Rich declined this offer in PMs because of lack of advertising materials. This can easily be verified by Rich himself. The Supporters table will be a completely separate table in a different area of the show than the table that was to be used by Mr. Young and Reptster. So the table fee is STILL owed, as no one else has purchased that table.
Again, no, there was no list of terms about cancellations or deposits, as the agreement was for him to send the entire $750 at first, then an agreement was made in mid-August for him to send $200 a week for 3 weeks and then $150 for the last payment REQUESTED BY MR. YOUNG. Payment was never received. This request WAS made over the phone, and agreed to by me in our conversation, therefore entering into that contract, but for the SAME AMOUNT total as agreed upon before. Again, I say that we were naive in not having a written contract, but this in no way negates the fact that we had a verbal contract, and that Mr. Young agreed to this amount when he responded to an email specifically stating the amount of $750.

The promotional materials listed his business along with the details of the show itself- did they list any other vendors as well? If so, those out of pocket promotional costs aren't entirely his responsibility, they need to be split between all the endeavors mentioned, either equally or in a manner directly related to the prominence of the logos and business names. You ran a banner ad for him on a website, how much do you charge for that independant of the sponsership? Do you have a set price for that service based on duration or impressions? Do you have a maximum number of advertisers you will add to the rotation in order to ensure that all your advertisers recieve fair exposure? Did you deny other prospective advertisers a slot as a result of the advertisements made for Reptster?

No, the promotional materials did not list any other vendors besides our other sponsor. Vendors were not offered a space on the fliers or banners, but have a separate page devoted to their listings. This was always included at no charge to the vendors above their table fees.
As far as splitting the costs of the promotional materials between sponsors, this is not true, as our agreement with our other sponsor was different than the one we had with Mr. Young. Also, Mr. Young joined with the show AFTER our first sponsor, and therefore all materials (fliers, banners, etc) needed to be redone to include Reptster as a sponsor. Our first sponsor already "paid his dues" with our agreement regarding advertising his show, and it was not his responsibility to have to pay again in order to include Mr. Young and Reptster. So the fee for reprinting fliers and banners to include Mr. Young, in my opinion, is entirely on Mr. Young. Also, because Mr. Young breached our contract and fliers had to be reprinted AGAIN to remove his name, I believe that the cost should be incurred by Mr. Young. We have not requested, however, any more than the original agreement of $750 to settle that part of the situation.
As far as banner ads for vendors, we offered the vendors the ability to have a STATIC banner on our Vendors page at no charge instead of just a text link. Vendors chose whether or not to send those. There is no "rotation" of banners in any way on our site, you can go see that for yourself. Because of this, all of our vendors receive the same amount of exposure as anyone else. Regarding the Supporters page, the only difference for them and the vendors is that they choose a donation themselves. We do not have a set price on that ability, and the reasons for that have been stated in this thread. But they too have static banners on the site.
Yes, we did deny ALL other vendors at the show exposure on the fliers and banner ads because of the space for sponsorship announcements. This service was not included in the vendor fee (table fee), only offered to our sponsors. Even before Mr. Young signed onto the show as a sponsor, this was true. However, banners and fliers did have to be redesigned (which, by the way, takes a bit of time) in order to be able to advertise Mr. Young/Reptster as agreed.

As far as I can tell, and the reason I asked for the information rather than pointing out this assumption, all you are actually out is the fractional cost of some photocopies (that you're still distributing because they have the information relating to the show and other promoters) and the time spent dealing with one aggrivating moron customer. You never delivered the full services that had been discussed so he can't possibly OWE the full price. I'd like to know how much he actually DOES owe.

First, the fliers printed with Reptster's name are NOT being distributed to my knowledge. The ability to do this by the public was taken away by removing the printable PDF from our website. If people are passing out fliers that they printed before this, I cannot say. Also, we went to as many places as possible this weekend or called places we knew had fliers out and asked them to be removed (or physically removed them ourselves). The fliers WERE replaced in as many places as possible.
The only service we did not deliver was the table at the show for his advertisement, all other terms were adhered to by us.

I'm going to take that to mean you're out thirty bucks for photocopies that you're still using, have no set pricing standards, will gouge anyone for as much as you think you can get away with when they talk to you and don't want to reveal how little you have actually spent because it will sound like much less of a travesty than the $750 figure you have been throwing around.

I would like to know where you are getting full color copies, 3000 of them for that matter AFTER Mr. Young signed onto the show as a sponsor, for $30, because I need to talk to your printer. If you must know, we pay almost 3 times that for 1000, which almost eats up his $750 agreement ALONE. The fliers were done in color simply because Mr. Young's logo did NOT print well in black and white, and we decided to move to color copies in order to fulfill our agreement to it's fullest.
No set pricing standards? We had a set pricing standard for the services we agreed upon with Mr. Young. Is it wrong to have different agreements with different sponsors? If so, then explain to me how and why.
Price gouging...I do not see where you are coming up with that idea. Sure, we may not have known what "industry standard" was for sponsorship, but Mr. Young said he had experience with sponsoring other shows, so why did he not tell us it was too high for the industry standard? How were we to know? We certainly couldn't get information from other show promoters (we did contact a few) about details of financial agreements with their sponsors, so again, we had no idea. It was what we thought it was worth.
Does the figure on the fliers help you with an idea of what was spent? Right there was almost $500 ALONE for the fliers...and they were ONLY redone because Mr. Young added to the show. We had plenty of fliers left over without his name on them.

As I said... Theft is theft and he could have stolen a single penny from you and still been in the wrong. That doesn't make it right to demand more from him than you are actually owed just because you have public support on your side and can get away with it. Your attempts to collect payment for services you never rendered are just as dirty and just as thieving as his attempt to not pay you.

So because we didn't spell out our "list of expenses" to you, we are thieves for expecting payment for our services? I am typing this response as others are coming in, and I am reading them, my only suggestion is to read over John's response about time and value of advertising before automatically assuming we are "stealing" money from him and being dirty.

Write up some terms so this doesn't happen in the future. Create a clear schedule for payment and a clear pricing structure for individual or packaged services you intend to offer. Write into your terms some sort of deposit structure to protect yourself, even if the deposit structure is 100% up front payment with no prorated refunds based on customer withdrawl.

Thanks, this ordeal has taught us a HUGE lesson, and we already have this in the works with our attorney so that this does not happen to us again. We may be crazy, but we are not stupid. Naive maybe, but not stupid.

[QUOTEAnd have the decency to demand what you're actually owed, not a fictional number based on services you never delivered and never will.[/QUOTE]
So, now that you have a FRACTION of the costs we incurred to advertise Mr. Young/Reptster, and all of your other questions were answered, are we still dirty thieves for thinking we are owed the entire $750? I'd be interested in your response.

Kelly Kordek

 

[big daddy's wholesal]

Kelly you should have never done anything for anyone without having funds in hand. It would be like me sending out a snake because a guy said he would pay me for it in a few days. No matter whether the dollar amount was 250-750. I have people back out on deals 2-3 times a month and that is their right. This is why a bird in the hand is better than two in the bush.
If you remain in the show business you will have many people who tell you one thing and then change their minds.
Allen Belcher 706-615-4772

 

[GottaLuvHerps]

Kelly you should have never done anything for anyone without having funds in hand. It would be like me sending out a snake because a guy said he would pay me for it in a few days. No matter whether the dollar amount was 250-750. I have people back out on deals 2-3 times a month and that is their right. This is why a bird in the hand is better than two in the bush.
If you remain in the show business you will have many people who tell you one thing and then change their minds.
Allen Belcher 706-615-4772

Allen,

Maybe because we are such idiots, we thought that we could take a man that was gaining such a great reputation in the industry at his word. Maybe because we are such idiots, we believed in something so much and we thought he believed in us as much as we believed in him since that what he said.
SINCE we will remain in the show business (not IF), we will learn something new every show, that I know. We have already learned a lot outside of this situation and because of this situation. Hopefully we will not be such idiots to repeat our mistakes and to continue doing what we are told we are doing right. Who knows?

Kelly

 

[big daddy's wholesal]

You never know kelly theres some things you just can't fix! While I have your attention though just a couple of more questions.
1 Why the weekend of the Chicago show, THE LARGEST SHOW IN THE NORTH?
2 Anonymous third party quotation deleted - WebSlave
Allen Belcher 706-615-4772

 

[Southern Wolf]

Kelly.... dont pay him any mind... he is just sore he got busted. It is apparent he is a RIPster supporter.... and thus prob thinks the same way David thinks. Which also tells me alot about his character.

 

[BryonsBoas]

2 Anonymous third party quotation deleted - WebSlave
Allen Belcher 706-615-4772

I believe this would be 3rd party information.

Without any other info than " Someone down here " I would think more than few will take it as you trying to pop smoke for David.

 

[GottaLuvHerps]

You never know kelly theres some things you just can't fix! While I have your attention though just a couple of more questions.
1 Why the weekend of the Chicago show, THE LARGEST SHOW IN THE NORTH?
2 Anonymous third party quotation deleted - WebSlave
Allen Belcher 706-615-4772

1. The Chicago dates were not published when we chose the date we did. And as much as the Tinley Park show is a competition for some of the bigger breeders, we were still able to get many other vendors that were not attending that show. It was not a problem in the end for us at all.
2. I have no idea what you are talking about. The only Troy I know is my younger cousin, I have only been married once (to Matthew obviously), and I have never even BEEN to Tennessee. All of this can be easily verified through public record. So yes, this person is confused about who I am. I would also like to know who this person is and where they came up with this ridiculous claim.

 

[Suncoast Herpetological]

You do raise some excellent points John and there's little there that I can find to disagree with as you presented it.

I would just point out that the cited difference between the $750 service and the $250 service centered around having a person physically work a table as his representative.

And while your points are certainly accurate and relevant, the basis for the argument against him has used the financial losses incurred associated with the services that were rendered as a primary point. While it does nothing to excuse David's behavior in the matter, when the complaining party repeatedly cites examples of their expenses "and I already paid for fliers." "and I already paid for fliers." "and I already put up a banner ad." it seemed reasonable to believe that was the substance of their complaint.

I agree with you in substance here Seamus. I simply think that whatever settlement is suggested should not be based on hard expenses alone. they are a factor, but not the major one. I'll go out on a limb here and suggest something. If you use 7/2 till 10/11 (date of show) as the term of the contract that is 101 days. If we use 7/2 till 9/3 (agreement till termination and removal of advertising due to non-payment) that is 71 days. That is approximately 70% of the contract term. 70% of $750 is $525.

I, personally think that this would be a fair settlement. There you go Belcher, a figure for you to chew on.

I will say that i have not run this by the OP. This is simply an idea i think would be a reasonable resolution given David's crappy communication and unprofessional handling of this situation

 

[GottaLuvHerps]

1. The Chicago dates were not published when we chose the date we did. And as much as the Tinley Park show is a competition for some of the bigger breeders, we were still able to get many other vendors that were not attending that show. It was not a problem in the end for us at all.
2. I have no idea what you are talking about. The only Troy I know is my younger cousin, I have only been married once (to Matthew obviously), and I have never even BEEN to Tennessee. All of this can be easily verified through public record. So yes, this person is confused about who I am. I would also like to know who this person is and where they came up with this ridiculous claim.

Kelly.... dont pay him any mind... he is just sore he got busted. It is apparent he is a RIPster supporter.... and thus prob thinks the same way David thinks. Which also tells me alot about his character.

Kevin, while I understand exactly what you are saying, I had to respond to at least his accusation of me being someone whom I am not, especially since he was trying to imply that I have ripped people off in this business. I did find that to be a personal attack, and something of that nature that involves me personally or my family WILL be answered.
Other than that, this idiot will not pay him any mind.

Kelly KORDEK (Allen, got that last name?)

 

[Suncoast Herpetological]

You never know kelly theres some things you just can't fix! While I have your attention though just a couple of more questions.
1 Why the weekend of the Chicago show, THE LARGEST SHOW IN THE NORTH?
2 Anonymous third party quotation deleted - WebSlave
Allen Belcher 706-615-4772

Splash crap on someone else Belcher. Kelly has been straight up through this whole situation. You should be able to scoop enough off that has stuck to you in the past to make a pretty good fistful. Fling it at Terry. He'll probably mistake it for pudding

 

[Serafim]

You never know kelly theres some things you just can't fix! While I have your attention though just a couple of more questions.
1 Why the weekend of the Chicago show, THE LARGEST SHOW IN THE NORTH?
2 Anonymous third party quotation deleted - WebSlave
Allen Belcher 706-615-4772

Thats pretty low Allen. Why are you trying so hard to wag the dog. Keep things on topic as they pretain to this issue at hand. I don't see anyone bringing your past up. And we all know you have one just do yourself a favor and quit while you are ahead..

 

[GottaLuvHerps]

I agree with you in substance here Seamus. I simply think that whatever settlement is suggested should not be based on hard expenses alone. they are a factor, but not the major one. I'll go out on a limb here and suggest something. If you use 7/2 till 10/11 (date of show) as the term of the contract that is 101 days. If we use 7/2 till 9/3 (agreement till termination and removal of advertising due to non-payment) that is 71 days. That is approximately 70% of the contract term. 70% of $750 is $525.

I, personally think that this would be a fair settlement. There you go Belcher, a figure for you to chew on.

I will say that i have not run this by the OP. This is simply an idea i think would be a reasonable resolution given David's crappy communication and unprofessional handling of this situation

Psst, John, the termination date of his sponsorship (removal of all advertisement, etc) was actually 9/16. 9/3 was the date Mr. Young stated he would send payment in an email. I would like to see figures based on this date as well, just for my own curiosity, as I believe that is the correct date of termination.

 

[Seamus Haley]

Ok, Seamus, the thing you do not seem to understand on this point is that the only way he "backed out" of the deal on this thread was by posting an email that he has yet to provide proof of (and that we dispute ever was sent). And ok, 3 weeks before the show, he backs out on the deal after ALL of the advertising was done for his business in so many ways.

Three weeks prior to the show is prior to the show.

Seamus, we have REPEATEDLY admitted to our naive mistake of not writing up a contract spelling out specific terms. But the terms were agreed to in a conversation, the very FIRST conversation, I had with Mr. Young. In this day and age, a verbal contract is as viable as a written one.

Acknowledging that something was a mistake does not mean it never happened. You had no specific terms for sponsorship so no terms were violated. A verbal contract is absolutely not as viable as a written one, especially when the two involved parties disagree about the details. I believe he has lied and you have told the truth but belief does not constitute proof and a substantial portion of why I believe your statements over his has to do with my dislike for him, a bias that inherently alters my belief.

The cornerstone of our "contention of wrongdoing" is that he agreed to pay a certain fee for the sponsorship, and never paid a penny for that sponsorship.

There was definitely an emphasis placed on the out of pocket costs that had been incurred on his behalf. This emphasis relates to the tone used when detailing his wrongdoings as well as the number of times the point was raised.

I am still trying to figure out where you get the idea that the representation of his table at the show is a $500 difference. You are still going with the idea that Mr. Young agreed to a $250 sponsorship, not a $750 sponsorship. This was NEVER the case, and Mr. Young has yet to prove otherwise. Obviously that service will not be delivered, but that was not a part of the terms of the amount of the sponsorship. Mr. Young stated he had no problem paying a higher fee since we were willing to do this for him - there was not a "labor" charge worked into the fee in any way.

He said it and up till this point, you did not deny it. From your own wording there, it sounds as if he decided upon the sponsorship level based specifically on that service as it was offered with the $750. You make a classic if-then statement, "he had no problem paying the higher fee" conditional modifier "since we were willing to do this for him." Since you have no set terms detailing the benefits to the various tiers of sponsorship and your statements align with his regarding that aspect of your deal, I'd certainly say it was a service you agreed to perform for a price- one that you will not now be performing.

The terms of the $750 sponsorship fee were as follows (to clear this up although I believe it has been stated in several posts) - Advertising as our major sponsor on the front page of the webpage (which we have provided screenshots to show that this was done), advertising as the major sponsor on the Sponsors page (which screenshots were also provided earlier to prove this was done), advertising on the fliers as the major sponsor of the show (which was provided much earlier in the thread to prove this was completed), advertising by word of mouth to other breeders, vendors and contacts in the industry we had about his service (which was proven by other posters in this thread), advertising on all banner ads as the major sponsor of the show (which screenshots mentioned above show was completed), mention of him as a sponsor on any forum postings we did (which was pointed out on just one thread alone here on Fauna on 7/8/08 with the offer to find the others), 1 table included for Mr. Young to ship us materials to set up to advertise his business approximately one week before the show (this is the only term of the agreement we will not be able to fulfill because of this situation). THOSE were the terms of the agreement for $750. The actual LABOR of working his table and setting up his materials was NOT included, but was agreed upon at the price indicated by us several times for $750 as a "bonus" service, for lack of better terms.

Great. Prove that those were the terms he understood applied when he agreed to it. Prove he knew he wasn't buying someone to work a promotional table for him.

Again, no, there was no list of terms about cancellations or deposits

Right there, that's where you're getting screwed and that's the part that YOU don't seem to understand. David can argue that he was not satisfied with the level of service he recieved, which can potentially invalidate his obligation to pay for it, since no terms were set forth that he agreed to regarding his sponsorship. I suspect he's just a deadbeat but I can't prove it, what I know is that he certainly expressed a great deal of dissatisfaction in this thread. That is why I don't believe you can decide after he has withdrawn his sponsership that he has responsibilities for anything other than the direct and proveable costs incurred on his behalf. No terms in place means you have no agreement to fall back on. Talking to him on the phone simply isn't something you can substantiate the details of unless you have a recording of the conversations.

No, the promotional materials did not list any other vendors besides our other sponsor.

Sounds like a one third responsibility to me then, since you had Sponsor A, Sponsor B and the Venue being promoted. Any chance you can post a picture of the fliers? I suppose it's somewhat a question of subjective interpretation, but the relative space associated with the three entities on the flier could impact the assumed value- and thus the assumed responsibility for the cost.

As far as splitting the costs of the promotional materials between sponsors, this is not true, as our agreement with our other sponsor was different than the one we had with Mr. Young.

Thus the gouging remark. If you do not offer identical services to all sponsors for identical prices, that's unsavory behavior.

Also, Mr. Young joined with the show AFTER our first sponsor, and therefore all materials (fliers, banners, etc) needed to be redone to include Reptster as a sponsor.

Entirely your responsibility as a result of printing promotional materials while still accepting sponsorships.

Our first sponsor already "paid his dues" with our agreement regarding advertising his show, and it was not his responsibility to have to pay again in order to include Mr. Young and Reptster. So the fee for reprinting fliers and banners to include Mr. Young, in my opinion, is entirely on Mr. Young.

I disagree. Your first sponsor should not be financially obligated beyond the terms of their arrangement to compensate for the additional cost of new fliers. That doesn't mean that Reptster should be obligated to pick up the full printing cost for fliers that mention multiple sponsors. The mistake was yours for either printing early or accepting sponsors late.

Also, because Mr. Young breached our contract and fliers had to be reprinted AGAIN to remove his name, I believe that the cost should be incurred by Mr. Young.

Alright, let's see some dated receipts for flier printing.

We have not requested, however, any more than the original agreement of $750 to settle that part of the situation.

Simply audacious to even suggest it was a possibility.

As far as banner ads for vendors, we offered the vendors the ability to have a STATIC banner on our Vendors page at no charge instead of just a text link. Vendors chose whether or not to send those. There is no "rotation" of banners in any way on our site, you can go see that for yourself. Because of this, all of our vendors receive the same amount of exposure as anyone else.

So there really wasn't an additional expense associated with the banner beyond that ambiguous labor cost. You didn't actually lose anything by posting his banner ad, since the page was up and displaying banners regardless.

However, banners and fliers did have to be redesigned (which, by the way, takes a bit of time) in order to be able to advertise Mr. Young/Reptster as agreed.

Again, entirely on you for either accepting sponsors late or designing and printing your initial set of fliers early.

Also, we went to as many places as possible this weekend or called places we knew had fliers out and asked them to be removed (or physically removed them ourselves). The fliers WERE replaced in as many places as possible.

How many out of how many? How many fliers was it possible to replace out of how many that were initially distributed? This is more of a curiosity on my part, as I don't think you can justify any additional cost for the third printing being thrown into Reptster's lap.

I would like to know where you are getting full color copies, 3000 of them for that matter AFTER Mr. Young signed onto the show as a sponsor, for $30, because I need to talk to your printer. If you must know, we pay almost 3 times that for 1000, which almost eats up his $750 agreement ALONE. The fliers were done in color simply because Mr. Young's logo did NOT print well in black and white, and we decided to move to color copies in order to fulfill our agreement to it's fullest.

So he didn't request color printing? And my math may be off because "almost" three times thirty would be something less than ninety for one thousand... times three thousand that you printed would be somewhere around but underneath $270... nowhere near "almost eats up his $750"

No set pricing standards? We had a set pricing standard for the services we agreed upon with Mr. Young. Is it wrong to have different agreements with different sponsors? If so, then explain to me how and why.

You don't think it's wrong to charge two people different amounts for identical services?

Does the figure on the fliers help you with an idea of what was spent? Right there was almost $500 ALONE for the fliers...and they were ONLY redone because Mr. Young added to the show. We had plenty of fliers left over without his name on them.

Agaian, my math skills must have left me because $270 doesn't seem like "almost $500" Further, you contradict yourself by saying you had plenty left over in the same post that you implied that he should somehow be responsible for the cost of replacing the ones with his name on them.

So because we didn't spell out our "list of expenses" to you, we are thieves for expecting payment for our services? I am typing this response as others are coming in, and I am reading them, my only suggestion is to read over John's response about time and value of advertising before automatically assuming we are "stealing" money from him and being dirty.

I did read John's response and John was not wrong in the least. That said, no matter how you wish to break down expenses versus labor, you have not and will not provide the complete $750 package that was laid out. So he doesn't owe you $750. Your total lack of specific terms and costs associated with services makes it impossible to determine how much less he does owe you though.

Thanks, this ordeal has taught us a HUGE lesson, and we already have this in the works with our attorney so that this does not happen to us again. We may be crazy, but we are not stupid. Naive maybe, but not stupid.

Good.

 

[Seamus Haley]

I agree with you in substance here Seamus. I simply think that whatever settlement is suggested should not be based on hard expenses alone. they are a factor, but not the major one. I'll go out on a limb here and suggest something. If you use 7/2 till 10/11 (date of show) as the term of the contract that is 101 days. If we use 7/2 till 9/3 (agreement till termination and removal of advertising due to non-payment) that is 71 days. That is approximately 70% of the contract term. 70% of $750 is $525.

I, personally think that this would be a fair settlement. There you go Belcher, a figure for you to chew on.

I will say that i have not run this by the OP. This is simply an idea i think would be a reasonable resolution given David's crappy communication and unprofessional handling of this situation

I'm also obviously not speaking for either party but that does seem like a very logical approach given the ambiguity of pricing as they relate to the individual services.

 

[Southern Wolf]

You don't think it's wrong to charge two people different amounts for identical services?

Apparently you do.... so with that being the case... I should only have to pay fedx the same amount RIPster has to pay for the same package.

its the exact same service...they are moving my box from point A to point B... it wont make any difference from where it picks up.. to where it ends... that has been set.

The only difference is he prob gets a cheaper rate than I do... but it is exactly the same service.

Hmmmm.... I think your off base here.

 

[John E Dove]

Okay, color me stupid but I fail to understand what all the dispute is about.
Ms. Kordek offered a service for some amount of money, Mr. Young agreed to pay some amount of money for that service, Ms. Kordek provided that service, Mr. Young paid nothing for that service.
Excuses and bad judgment aside, the fact that Mr. Young DID make an agreement for the services of Ms. Kordek and refused to follow up on his end of the agreement after the service was provided.
Mr. Young has not disputed the fact that he did make some agreement to pay for a service, he has only made excuses for why he did not pay what he agreed to which was provided.
You can try to spin it any way you like but the facts are still basically the same leading to the same conclusion; Mr. Young is not to be trusted until you have the money in your hand.

 

[GottaLuvHerps]

I'm also obviously not speaking for either party but that does seem like a very logical approach given the ambiguity of pricing as they relate to the individual services.

Seamus, I have never said I would not be open to discussion with Mr. Young regarding a settlement. This MAY be a way to work things out, but we will never know until which point Mr. Young decides to contact us. We have repeatedly stated in this thread that we are open to discussion, but he choose not to contact us. Is it still our responsibility to contact him after everything? I think not. The ball is in his court, it has been for a very long time now, he chooses not to pick it up and throw it. So any possible idea for settlement is a moot point until he picks up the phone or writes me an email like he can seem to do to other people over this situation.

A general statement - I am done for the night. It is almost midnight, and I am exhausted. If I am not responding much tomorrow, it is because I have other show business to take care of, as well as the fact that I do have a personal life. I am not avoiding things, I am just trying to get back to life as normal. But my phone and email are still open to Mr. Young.