Reptster.com experience with show sponsorship not good

[GottaLuvHerps]

I am quoting the part of the post Mr. Young had on Reptster that I would like to respond to.
Jessica, thank you for posting this here, and Nate, thank you for asking the questions to get him to post.

So when Kelly came on the site and started her extortion I refused to post. Then a friend of mine who I have great respect for Greg Graziani asked me to respond. I reluctantly posted a message on the way out the door stating that I would reply later when I had time. Between that post and when I came back the children had already started to sling mud. Which reinforced my opinion of the BOI. So I put together four emails which were clearly fake to mock the 8 year olds on the site and that directly shows my respect for the BOI and how it came to be. And the next day I posted them. After that Mike Monge called me up and stated that he knew why I did it and agreed with it on some points but that I had offended Kathy Love. I felt bad about that as I really respect her and realized I might have hit a few targets I was not aiming at. I then posted my side, my apologies and the email that showed I had canceled. That’s all the respect that IT will get, if OTHERS feel they deserve more apologies contact me directly and I will apologize but only for mocking them, the rest is still extortion.

First, Mr. Young, I would like to know your definition of extortion.

From day 2, before I sent her our logo I stated on a phone call that if she wanted 750 I was not going to do her show. We agreed on 250. She knew that, promoted the logo and then tried to get 750 out of me. That to me is a deal breaker, she knew my intention, whether she had 5 kids or not, whether she was newly married or not, the answer was no. And that was made clear before she ever placed any advertisement up.

2 things to say here:
First, there was no phone call on day 2 stating that the agreement was for $250. There was NEVER a phone call stating this. We had very few conversations in reality that had any substance to them, mostly just ones where you stated you had FedEx accounting nightmares going on and would call back, or you were involved in personal matters. What was made clear throughout any conversations or emails we exchanged was that the agreement was for $750, and if you changed your mind, you certainly never told me.

Secondly, keep my family out of this. My personal life and my business life are completely separate, except for the fact that I did this show to better the life my family could have, and to share an experience with them that I know they love. Yes, we spoke about our personal lives, getting to know each other a bit (or so I thought), and I mentioned my recent marriage and our 5 kids. But this BS tactic of trying to make me sound like a beggar because I have a family is going into realms you do NOT want to go with me, Mr. Young. It is scumbag tactics no matter how you look at it, especially when you start dragging kids into things as an excuse. I have not and WILL NOT do that to you or your family, so have at least a little respect for them, if you can't have any for me.

Anyone can fake emails, anyone who has 10 minutes and the internet can learn how to effectively manipulate headers and if they have any from the person they are trying to forge they can do it perfectly. Whether someone over there says they can’t, they can. Do the research.

So now I have faked emails that have been verified by 2 moderators of this site? Couldn't you have just as easily said "I could fake the email that I claim was sent to her, headers and all, stating that I agreed to $250 and the deal was off"???

Final statement... When you start a business scummy it will always be scummy even if most have forgotten, a lot never will. I will not be extorted by those types of business practices.

So now I am a scummy business person who extorts money? The difference here, Mr. Young, is that I do NOT have a pattern of scumbag tactics or bad business, you seem to have one after this thread has come about. The difference here, Mr. Young, is that I do not resort to things like dragging someone else's children into a business situation. The difference here, Mr. Young, is when I say I am going to pay someone for services, I pay them.

I have been sitting on this response since the post was put up here by Jessica. I can say this...if there is one thing that gets me to no end is when someone brings family and children into things. Then I get angry, whether it is my family or someone else's. So far I have remained calm and professional, and plan to keep it that way, but I am in a different state of calm.

If you thought I was going to go away, you, sir, have crossed into territory that will GUARANTEE I will not be going anywhere until this situation is properly resolved.

Even still, no matter how angry I may be at your tactics, my phone number has not changed, my email address has not changed, and you can feel free to contact me to resolve this matter at any time.

 

[deborahbroadus]

Dennis,

I agree with you about the good works of the BOI, but you have to admit that there should be no place for childish name calling. There seems to be a core group that is ready to jump on people just because they can. Someone in this thread mentioned the fact that alot of the well known people in this industry won't be found on this site. I know alot of them personally, and if you ask them why they don't get on this forum is because of some of the same group of people being ugly.

Scott Sweeney

This post just made me think of the quotation: "If you aren't a part of the solution, you are a part of the problem."

It's easy to stand back and criticize, but if the criticizer isn't attempting to change the issue being criticized then they are partly to blame for the state of said issue.

IMO, the best way to see the kind of changes that are wanted is to become an active participant.

 

[Double LY]

As a potential customer of yours, I just cannot understand why someone with so much credibility simply refuses to show a single shred of will to save your own name.

First off, I'm getting rather annoyed with people talking about how much "credibility" David Young/Reptster have. The guy came from nowhere less than a year ago and look at the issues he's already having. Stop confusing a pushy car salesman for someone with an earned reputation.

Now for David's ridiculous response ...

Thanks for coming and asking those questions Nate, you are the first.

Well, first line and my shoes are already covered with manure. Others have attempted to ask questions, you just banned them from your site instead of responding.

There are a lot of very long answers to these questions and it’s almost easier to do on the phone but I will try and answer them all here.

It's also easier to spew complete B.S. on the phone creating "he said/she said" situations like you've done with Kelly, Kathy Love, Sammy, etc.

I have complete disrespect for the BOI and Fauna.

Funny how you responded to the praise in the shipping forum. Of course, your responses became more infrequent and then ended completely once people started pointing out problems printing, logging in, double-billing, being overcharged, etc.

In addition to faunaclassifieds.com he also had it at www.kingsnakes.com and the BOI started as a "Why I hate Jeff (the owner of KS) and kingsnake". This was BAD business in the worst type.

I'm a relative "newbie" here and even I know this is complete bunk. Links to the old BOI can be found on this site by doing a search. The premise was the same - out the bad guy and praise the good guy. There was nothing to do with Jeff. (Oh, but if curiosity gets you, there are threads about Jeff and Kingsnake, the lawsuit, etc. that can be found here as well. See, Rich isn't "scummy" as David claims. The good, bad and ugly can all be found here on Fauna. It's up to us, as participants, to decide which threads/members fall into which category.

From day 2, before I sent her our logo I stated on a phone call that if she wanted 750 I was not going to do her show. We agreed on 250.

Yet you still sent NOTHING.

In addition if you want a real system the only people who should be able to post are the complainer and the complained. And you have to establish transaction. That’s it.

I agree that threads get sidetracked here sometimes. However, that's easily remedied. If you feel that person "X" (or any of the other "8 kids in the playground") never has anything to contribute - put them on ignore. Problem solved. The problem with eliminating interested parties from posting in threads is that a lot of scumbags wouldn't get outed. Check out some of Richie Luna's work (especially the High End Herps thread). He has outed the same guy over and over (and never spent a nickel with Damon, David, Brian or whatever his name is this week). Heck, check out our newest scumbag LAW Reptiles (a/k/a Cutting Edge Exotics, Allen Exotics, Allen Williamson, Matt Beatty, Matt Williamson, etc.). This schmuck has been creating new personas more than most of us change our underpants and because of the "wolf pack" he has been outed almost instantaneously each time.

Go through the list of vendors you see at any of the big shows (Daytona, San Diego, NARBC, etc), why don’t you see them on the BOI or Fauna?

This one truly made me giggle. No one with a name in the industry would ever post here, but in a previous paragraph David says:

Then a friend of mine who I have great respect for Greg Graziani asked me to respond.

Just because people don't post, doesn't mean they don't read. Ever look at the bottom of the screen and see how many "guests" are here at a time????

Final statement... When you start a business scummy it will always be scummy even if most have forgotten, a lot never will.

Yep, A LOT of us have memories like an elephant regarding scumbags. Don't you just shudder thinking about it?

 

[shrap]

This is probably more appropriate for a thread all its' own, but I have to ask...

Who exactly is this "same Wolf Pack"? Who is this "same Pack of Dogs"? who is this "same group of People being ugly"? I have been hearing these same lines for years but have never been told who exactly these people are. Or any specific quotes that people are offended by.

Does this place get out of hand sometimes? Sure it does. Do people get emotional sometimes? Sure they do? Do people spout off crap that is completely unneeded sometimes? Absolutely. Are there people here that just want to stir the pot? By the boat load. Are there also people here that are genuinely good people with genuinely good intentions? Lots. Is the BOI perfect? Is anything.

Bottom line is that there is a lot of good accomplished here by a lot of people that genuinely believe in honesty and living by a higher standard. None of them are perfect either and are not above being wrong, but at least they try to do the right thing and take responsibility for their mistakes.

And after typing that I am dumbfounded that I just typed that expecting people to simply be honest and fair is a "higher standard". Should that not be the minimum standard?

 

[Southern Wolf]

And after typing that I am dumbfounded that I just typed that expecting people to simply be honest and fair is a "higher standard". Should that not be the minimum standard?

Yes it should, but unfortunately it is not.

 

[dprince]

And after typing that I am dumbfounded that I just typed that expecting people to simply be honest and fair is a "higher standard". Should that not be the minimum standard?

Absolutely. Well stated, Sammy.

 

[Cat_72]

Should that not be the minimum standard?

One would certainly hope so, but in this day and age, it seems to be becoming the exception to the rule.

Look at the number of folks that will read a thread on the BOI about how many people someone has ripped off, and yet they will state that their deal went well, so they have no issues dealing with the scumbag again....don't care if they are enabling them to keep ripping others off as long as they get theirs.

Or people that accuse you of being "high and mighty" or pushing your values on someone else when you expect that honesty and set of values that not that long ago WAS the standard. I don't get it.

How many people does David have to rip off or blow off before he goes under that minimum standard of today?

 

[MiIguanaLvr]

This is probably more appropriate for a thread all its' own, but I have to ask...

Who exactly is this "same Wolf Pack"? Who is this "same Pack of Dogs"? who is this "same group of People being ugly"? I have been hearing these same lines for years but have never been told who exactly these people are. Or any specific quotes that people are offended by.

Does this place get out of hand sometimes? Sure it does. Do people get emotional sometimes? Sure they do? Do people spout off crap that is completely unneeded sometimes? Absolutely. Are there people here that just want to stir the pot? By the boat load. Are there also people here that are genuinely good people with genuinely good intentions? Lots. Is the BOI perfect? Is anything.

Bottom line is that there is a lot of good accomplished here by a lot of people that genuinely believe in honesty and living by a higher standard. None of them are perfect either and are not above being wrong, but at least they try to do the right thing and take responsibility for their mistakes.

And after typing that I am dumbfounded that I just typed that expecting people to simply be honest and fair is a "higher standard". Should that not be the minimum standard?

You are right Sammie but not only is this becoming the case, but those of you who are the "watchdogs" of the BOI (by that I simply mean the regulars who are very good at sniffing out a scam) are being attacked now.
I think that this is seriously just smokescreen.

I am reasonably sure that everyone here knows that in all likelihood, if one of the people who are complaining so loudly about how bad the BOI is were scammed this is the FIRST PLACE they would come to try to get a resolution from this "pack of wolves".

The fact is that there is a need for the BOI. I wish there wasn't as many people probably do, but obviously there is. The Internet makes it too easy to scam people and the good guys had to have some way to fight back.
I think it takes a lot of courage for Rich to have set up the BOI and keep it up. The reason that there is not a BOI type of forum on every website is because it is not an easy thing to do and most people do not have the courage to do it.

I run a non profit dog rescue and I have wished many times that there was something like this for us. Not only for bad adopters but for other rescues who are liars or cheats or scammers. No one wants to take that on, including me, because of the backlash that would happen. The BOI is a priceless commodity for those trying to do business in the herp community.

JMHO

 

[Sweeney's Serpents]

Debra,

So I am the problem? I would expect that from this forum. I have already stated If it concerns a business transaction & money use a contract.

Your quotation also reminds me of a quotation: You know what they say about opinions......


Peace

Scott Sweeney

 

[jayefbe]

First off, I'm getting rather annoyed with people talking about how much "credibility" David Young/Reptster have. The guy came from nowhere less than a year ago and look at the issues he's already having. Stop confusing a pushy car salesman for someone with an earned reputation.

Just awesome, and I agree completely. Where does David get off thinking that he's created enough of a reputation that he can just insult the community at large? Not paying a show sponsorship fee you've agreed to IS insulting the ENTIRE herp community.

David came up with a somewhat novel idea. He's making money allowing people to get around the fedex certification process, at the expense of not receiving prompt customer service and in some (most?) cases higher shipping fees. It's certainly not a needed service, and I'd be surprised if he's turned a profit at this point. It's extremely difficult to get a business up and running, and the costs have got to outweigh the money coming in from being a fedex middleman at this point. Which brings up another thing, reptster is merely a fedex middleman. It's convenient, but not necessary. His incredible arrogance is going to be his undoing.

 

[jayefbe]

Debra,

So I am the problem? I would expect that from this forum. I have already stated If it concerns a business transaction & money use a contract.

Your quotation also reminds me of a quotation: You know what they say about opinions......


Peace

Scott Sweeney

That's been brought up dozens of times at this point (I don't think I'm exaggerating). Kelly has admitted she should have used a contract, but didn't think it was necessary given David's "reputation" and her personal communications with him. Yes, it was shortsighted of her, but it doesn't negate David of any wrongdoing.

 

[Sweeney's Serpents]

My addiction to watching the Peoples Court, Judge Judy and a few others has proven to me that when it comes to people and money, that there are no guarantees. Family screws over family all the time. David and Kelly both could have handled things differently. Knowing some of the crew over here, David would have been best served by not slamming them the way they were slamming him.

Scott Sweeney

 

[critical bill]

Knowing some of the crew over here, David would have been best served by not slamming them the way they were slamming him.

Scott Sweeney

In knowing some of the crew here ~ maybe it might be very smart for you to pipe down about now. I don't think I'm only member of the pack that's getting just a tad annoyed with your pissin and moanin. If this place isn't your cup of tea then go find someplace that suits your taste or stick to an area of this site that's more agreeable to you.

 

[deborahbroadus]

Debra,

So I am the problem? I would expect that from this forum. I have already stated If it concerns a business transaction & money use a contract.

Your quotation also reminds me of a quotation: You know what they say about opinions......


Peace

Scott Sweeney

Wow..and I think YOU implied that people on HERE are not nice?

Actually, I thought the use of the plural "you" was understood, it's a common quotation..you spoke of "breeders" plural.

So actually, it is a general purpose quotation to encourage people such as the ones you mentioned (heresay) not wanting to be involved here (you: plural) to work from within an organization to effect change. I am sorry that you (singular) misunderstood.

http://www.brownielocks.com/midi_files/coke.wav Have a coke!

 

[deborahbroadus]

not "breeders" specifically..."well known...in the community"

 

[Double LY]

My addiction to watching the Peoples Court, Judge Judy and a few others has proven to me that when it comes to people and money, that there are no guarantees. Family screws over family all the time. David and Kelly both could have handled things differently. Knowing some of the crew over here, David would have been best served by not slamming them the way they were slamming him.

Scott Sweeney

Now I'm downright annoyed. Have you bothered reading this thread or are you another WingedWolf that can't take the time?

Thank you for pointing out the fact that there should have been a written contract for the umpteenth time. Everyone realizes that and Kelly has repeatedly said she won't make the same mistake again.

Now on to the "crew" slamming David. Do you realize that this thread was started on the evening of September 16th and David couldn't be bothered with a response until the morning of the 18th? Did you see during that time the consensus was pretty much wait to pass judgment until David had time to respond? Did you read that post from David which basically said I don't have time to respond now, but Kelly is a liar and I'll prove it? Did you then see that instead of responding David sent in a TRUE respected member of the herp community to defend him? Did you have time to read that rather than providing proof of Kelly being a liar, David spent time fabricating e-mails and posted them along with a big " You" to the BOI? Did you see during this time additional issues regarding Reptster's show sponsorship and "shipping" were brought to light?

If you have truly read this thread, you will know that the "crew" did not "slam" David. In fact, it was quite the opposite. David has slammed Kelly, her husband, her children, the representatives from Repticon, his own customers (by banning them from his forum rather than answering their questions), the BOI, Fauna and Rich himself. And yet Kelly has repeatedly said she's still willing to work things out and although he's insulted this site time and again, he would still be allowed to post his own side of the story here.

 

[Dixie Reptiles]

Who is the true respected member you are speaking of ?

 

[Abish]

Who is the true respected member you are speaking of ?

Kathy Love, yeah?

 

[Dixie Reptiles]

And David sent her in ?

 

[Sweeney's Serpents]

LOL, your life is pretty good if My opinion annoyed you. Maybe you have not read enough threads to understand the modus operandi in this forum by some but not all. The dead horse is now dog food, go cut, paste & bash somewhere else. And you are most definitly right there is absolutly nothing else constructive that can be said on this thread.

Thank You for making my day...................

Scott Sweeney