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[WebSlave]

Im just trying to offer a different view point... as to why some may not want to do it.

Duly noted. Thank you.

 

[hhmoore]

but what if they just stated, as Kevin has, that they are from whatever part of the state they are in. I don't see what the big deal is if you tell the state you are from.

Then they would not be in compliance with policy, and would be subject to whatever repercussions there might be. My profile initially said Upstate NY...I changed it to NY's Capital District when the rule for posting a valid location in the classifieds went into effect. At that time, while it was noted in several posts by Rich, the announcement posted in the classifieds did not state that the city was required...and Rich responded to some questions in a manner that suggested that using a defined geographical area would be good enough. While many people outside of NYS might not be familiar with the Capital District, if it is googled, the first hit is a Wikipedia entry.
Now that the policy is clearly defined, and explicitly indicates that City and State are required, I have entered my city. (I wouldn't notify people of the new policy & expect them to comply if my own profile didn't meet the standard)

 

[chamgirl99471]

Completely understood Thank You Harald.

 

[Lucille]

What the hell does my location or anyone's location have to do with social chit chat or answering someone's question or posting a joke or a news article or anything else that goes on in the DISCUSSION forums? Location has NOTHING to do with any of it and has NOTHING to do with honesty or lack there of. The discussion forums are NOT the classifieds where people are attempting conduct business and where ones location does play a part.

Good point. There's no question that locations of sellers are important and that discrepancies in location are a red flag in any possible transactions. But why locate those merely carrying on a discussion?

Sorry to get so strict about this, but this is necessary in order to try to weed out those people intending to obscure that information in order to engage in scams taking advantage of people on this site.

Again, the scams take place in the classifieds, not in the forums.
There is more going on here than meets the eye, I think.

 

[JudyC]

I have no intention of buying anything from anyone on this site nor selling to anyone on this site. When I want to buy reptiles I perfer to buy in person at shows. Because I have no intention of ever using the "classified" section of this website I would NOT be giving anyone my location to start with because I would not be providing nor receiving any form of payment. I certainly should NOT have to open myself up to stalkers or put myself at risk simply because I have no intention of making full use of this site..

You don't HAVE to do anything...least of all participate on this site. There are lots of very good reptile forums that don't even require a first name, much less a full name and location. Seems like one of those might be a better fit. It's Rich's site and he can certainly set whatever rules he believes make for the best possible management of his site.

I guarantee you, no matter what rule he makes, there will be someone who is unhappy about it. That's just the way it goes.

There is more going on here than meets the eye, I think.

Like what???

It's a matter of logistics. If Rich has decided that adding a required location as well as a full name will aid members in judging who they do business with, then he has to figure out a way to implement that tool. The simplest way, from an administrator's point of view, is to have that information included in the member's profile....period. It will save on a LOT of admin/moderator time when managing the classifieds.

It just so happens that the exactly same infrastructure is connected with the discussion forums. True, no sales go on there...and a person's location may be irrelevant to most of the discussions going on there...but how do you strip that information from one part of the site while including it on another? You can't. It's not some weird conspiracy.

 

[hhmoore]

Consider the volume of people utilizing this site for just a moment.
My last post referenced that there has been a location requirement in the classifieds since early this year. I personally spent weeks sending people PM notifications of the requirement when I noticed they weren't complying. Somewhere right around that time, Rich started requiring those entries on all new registrations. One would think that we'd be ahead of the curve by now...but it doesn't seem that we are. Some might slip through the cracks at registration, and there are people that only advertise seasonally that weren't posting during the full court press to notify people. It seems that there are also some members that randomly pop back in to use the classifieds. I think some people may have entered the information, then removed or changed it once their compliance was noted.
With this site currently getting in the neighborhood of 1000 posts per day, and a majority of them in the classifieds, this requirement is probably the easiest way to attain the goal.

Some people may opt out of using this site rather than comply - no surprise, since that happens every time something changes.

 

[WebSlave]

I have no intention of buying anything from anyone on this site nor selling to anyone on this site. When I want to buy reptiles I perfer to buy in person at shows. Because I have no intention of ever using the "classified" section of this website I would NOT be giving anyone my location to start with because I would not be providing nor receiving any form of payment. I certainly should NOT have to open myself up to stalkers or put myself at risk simply because I have no intention of making full use of this site.

There is another forum I like to visit that uses that type of system already..the classifieds require a location while discussion forums do not. Specifically they state "If it's not part of your user profile already, you must explicitly state your location in the classified." While I don't sell stuff there, I do on rare occasions buy from users there if it's something impossible for me to get locally. I will not bother to entertain the idea of contacting anyone about their ad if they do not have their location listed and will report them instead. I also am very careful to do my homework and only provide my address information after they have already given me their address with which to mail them payment via USPS priority mail. Actually they don't ever know my address until the day they get my payment as I have a letter included with the money order and where to ship my purchase.

What the hell does my location or anyone's location have to do with social chit chat or answering someone's question or posting a joke or a news article or anything else that goes on in the DISCUSSION forums? Location has NOTHING to do with any of it and has NOTHING to do with honesty or lack there of. The discussion forums are NOT the classifieds where people are attempting conduct business and where ones location does play a part.

Well, be that as it may, reviewing the history of your posts here, coupled with the above quotes that you do not intend to buy animals from nor sell them on this site, coupled with the evidence that you have no intention of posting in the discussion forums ABOUT said animals neither, does tend to bring a question to mind as to why exactly you ARE here, and why you would get so worked up about your location info. Personally I don't care why you are here, but I do sometimes wonder at the motives behind what people will post when they see a conflict brewing...

And, btw, yes, you have posted in the classifieds section in the past. And you have certainly been active in the BOI, where I am sure most people like to have some credibility behind people posting there, where profile info filled out completely and accurately may be helpful in that respect.

It may just be easier to comply with the requirement now, rather than getting an infraction if you forget and slip up some day, wouldn't you think?

I indicated a while back that I was going to be cleaning up this place and getting it running tighter, but do it gradually. Well, this is part of that process....

 

[DAND]

Hell, at the very least it may allow more of us to get to know one another outside of the forum. Oh wow, "so and so" lives two cities over? Cool.

 

[JudyC]

I indicated a while back that I was going to be cleaning up this place and getting it running tighter, but do it gradually. Well, this is part of that process....

Personally, I think you're doing a helluva good job.

 

[deborahbroadus]

Personally, I think you're doing a helluva good job.

I do too. Kudos, also, to all the Mods that contribute their time towards keeping this site on the tracks.

 

[Lucille]

I do too

And Kudos to the mods.

And Kudos to all the great members that keep this site interesting, day after day, year after year.

 

[Wraith]

And, btw, yes, you have posted in the classifieds section in the past. And you have certainly been active in the BOI, where I am sure most people like to have some credibility behind people posting there, where profile info filled out completely and accurately may be helpful in that respect.

Please... really? 2 posts made nearly 2 years ago within the comment area of ONE classified ad that someone else posted. I did not post the ad. I was not selling. I was not buying. I Posted information concerning the fact that the person posting the ad could not keep straight who he really was and helping others point that fact out to prevent a potential scam. So you gonna hold that against me for trying to help people? gee thanks.

 

[WebSlave]

Please... really? 2 posts made nearly 2 years ago within the comment area of ONE classified ad that someone else posted. I did not post the ad. I was not selling. I was not buying. I Posted information concerning the fact that the person posting the ad could not keep straight who he really was and helping others point that fact out to prevent a potential scam. So you gonna hold that against me for trying to help people? gee thanks.

You are completely missing the point........

 

[deborahbroadus]

You are completely missing the point........

Probably on purpose too!

 

[DAND]

You are completely missing the point........

Probably on purpose too!

That may be due to his occupation he has posted on his profile.

Occupation: I refuse to grow up


Let me make this easy for everyone, Rich has said this is how things are going to be. You can either comply and make the necessary changes to your profiles or you will more than likely receive infractions until you get suspended. Enough infractions will result in a permanent ban. So, let me make this even simpler for any who "refuse to grow up", do it or go. It's so easy a cavemen can do it.

 

[Wraith]

Probably on purpose too!

Pot meet kettle. you obviously missed the point (on purpose too!) of anything I wrote so you could jump on the clique bandwagon.

Apparently anyone who chooses to have an opinion that is different from the "clique" and have the nerve to voice that opinion is "guilty of being a scammer" while those who meekly fall in line are or support the clique are not guilty of being scammers.

This is a FEEDBACK forum. If Rich didn't WANT feedback from his members he could have simply locked the thread right after making his post.

Being that this is a FEEDBACK forum I voiced my feedback (i.e. opinion) on the matter that it's a BAD rule as it pertains to the DISCUSSION forums. I voiced my opinion that it was a perfectly reasonable rule as it pertains to the CLASSIFIED forums where business transactions are actually taking place. Another person also voiced their opinions and got jumped and slapped in the face too.

Rich asked for possible solutions and I apparently was the only one who bothered to even try to do that, but which was completely ignored in favor of letting the clique jump on continue. I offered a solution mind you that already exists on this site with a particular set of forums (The BOI). If it works there then why wouldn't it work for the classifieds? hmmm... guess the mods would prefer to scan the entire site of ALL forums every day for every single post to make sure that people are posting their first, middle, last names, addresses, city, state, country of origin, SSN, bank account info, photo ID, etc. in order to "not look like a scammer" rather than just scanning the much smaller numbers of posts in the classifieds.

This "new rule" would NOT have stopped Chris Johnson from scamming people. That would not have stopped the Wise's from scamming people either. Nor any of the other well known scammers that have come and gone. So punish the good little users of the site and put them at risk while letting the scammers keep on doing what they do best.

At some point you just have to suck it up and do your own homework of who you do business with and whether you trust them or not instead of letting someone else try to be "big brother" playing the "protect you for your own good" card to the point that you let your right to privacy be stripped away from you and personal information is compromised and you still get scammed anyway.

 

[Utta]

This whole "clique" BS AGAIN?! Are you kidding me?

 

[JudyC]

Apparently anyone who chooses to have an opinion that is different from the "clique" and have the nerve to voice that opinion is "guilty of being a scammer" while those who meekly fall in line are or support the clique are not guilty of being scammers.

I don't believe anyone accused you of being a scammer, regardless of your opinion on this matter. We GET your opinion and understand the reasons behind it. What YOU don't seem to get is that the guy behind the curtain (so to speak) has very valid reasons for his choices too. You don't seem to accept that at all. That's your option, of course, but who are you helping with such an attitude?

Being that this is a FEEDBACK forum I voiced my feedback (i.e. opinion) on the matter that it's a BAD rule as it pertains to the DISCUSSION forums. I voiced my opinion that it was a perfectly reasonable rule as it pertains to the CLASSIFIED forums where business transactions are actually taking place. Another person also voiced their opinions and got jumped and slapped in the face too.

And you're not being "slapped in the face"...people are just trying to point out the other side of the issue. You say if you disagree, you must be labeled a scammer? Yet, you seem to think anyone who disagrees with you is slapping you in the face? Really??

Have you even read the reasons why it wouldn't work to separate the rules in this matter between two huge halves of the site? First off, this site is about its classifieds. The discussion forums are a bonus for you to enjoy...not some inalienable right.

Second off, the original full-name compliance for the BOI was a single element enforced in a single forum. Still a rather huge job for the mods to keep up with, but they managed well enough. To add in a full name AND location requirement for both the BOI and the classifieds requires a different sort of tool for enforcement...which is having that information included in the permanent profile fields of each member. THAT can not be separated from the discussion forums, no matter how much you might wish it to be.

I offered a solution mind you that already exists on this site with a particular set of forums (The BOI). If it works there then why wouldn't it work for the classifieds? hmmm... guess the mods would prefer to scan the entire site of ALL forums every day for every single post to make sure that people are posting their first, middle, last names, addresses, city, state, country of origin, SSN, bank account info, photo ID, etc. in order to "not look like a scammer" rather than just scanning the much smaller numbers of posts in the classifieds.

As pointed out above, it existed in a much smaller degree than the new rulings. To make sure that each and every post in the classifieds included a full name and accurate location the same way they check for names on the BOI would be overwhelming and ridiculously work-intensive.

As it is, they still have their work cut out for them scanning all the profiles and sending out tons of reminders to fix profiles, etc. This isn't some whim taken on just because they get jollies out of making you miserable.

This "new rule" would NOT have stopped Chris Johnson from scamming people. That would not have stopped the Wise's from scamming people either. Nor any of the other well known scammers that have come and gone. So punish the good little users of the site and put them at risk while letting the scammers keep on doing what they do best.

Who can say who it would have stopped? You don't know. And there are MANY MANY more small-time scammers that are just as guilty of stealing money as the "well known" people. Most of those small timers are not particularly smart and will either be stymied by having to include their location, or will get caught lying about it. Of course, no tool will catch EVERYONE intent on being dishonest...but if Rich wants to put one more layer of protection on top of the ones he already offers, what is so wrong with that?

At some point you just have to suck it up and do your own homework of who you do business with and whether you trust them or not instead of letting someone else try to be "big brother" playing the "protect you for your own good" card to the point that you let your right to privacy be stripped away from you and personal information is compromised and you still get scammed anyway.

You retain your right to privacy by simply choosing to no longer participate when you feel your privacy is being compromised. A person's general location is hardly a deeply private matter in MOST people's eyes. I can see and understand a few exceptions to that. But Rich (and folks like him that run sites like this) doesn't usually set rules based on a "few exceptions" but rather based on the vast majority of members and what is thought best for the site.

 

[Utta]

Look, the classifieds ars the main bulk of this site. this rule simply makes it easier on the mods (who already work their @$& off for the better of this site). How are they supposed to only inforce it in the classifieds? Say you were allowed to skimp on this rule. What would happen if you decided to post something for sale? Would you change it just for that ad so you have a location? No. You'd forget about it, post your ad anyway and then whine when you get pulled aside and asked to post your location.

 

[deborahbroadus]

This whole "clique" BS AGAIN?! Are you kidding me?

Does not get the point....notice the location on his profile??

Still.... He doesn't get that it's not about "voicing an opinion." Certainly, I haven't seen anyone get "jumped."

He seems not to remember that we have a freedom to agree or not to those opinions voiced, and sometimes like-minded people agree on the same topics.