Rich Zuchowski aka Webslave Ethical or not ???

[Lucille]

Well then you obviously do not go back and read what YOU post.

Not a bad kindergarten level comeback after you embarrassed yourself by posting something which was easily checkable and untrue.

 

[Suncoast Herpetological]

Then how is what Alan did unethical. Both did it to harm another. Bottom line.

Gary

If you see no ethical difference in Rich legally purchasing a website name that became available and pointing it to this site in order to increase traffic
and Alan attempting to sell information he obtained that he should not have been privy to in order to screw Rich over and put money in his pocket, then you really need to examine your own ethical center. It's in dire need of a tuneup.

Do I agree that publicly auctioning Kingsnakes.com was the best idea Rich ever came up with...? Nope....it was not a smart or ethical move. Simply buying the domain when it became available and pointing it to this site I do not find unethical in the least. Let's not forget that all of this stems from the overall ban by Kingsnake of even mentioning this site. That was the original catalyst that started the ball rolling.

 

[Chameleon Company]

Gary, a minor point ... except ....

My post # 93:

Between you both (Gary and Rory), you have less than 400 posts. Doesn't make you stupid. But maybe you need a little more experience in having folks not agreeing with your logic.

Gary's post #120:

I honestly do not think he (Alan) wants fauna dead.

I hope you know I do not. But Jim thinks sinse I only have 360 posts here I do.

Facts seem to elude you Gary, or better put, when you need one, you make it up. Disagreements and debates, and accusations, are common fodder for the BOI. Unless a clear TOS violation, many of us go to the integrity record in Fauna of the accusor. Call it a credit check. Alan has a miserable track record. Now, just in this thread in the last couple of hours, many of your assumptions, logic paths, and exact words, have been taken to task by some of the most objective and knowledgeable entities here. I enjoy a good debate, as do many here. With regards to my words, you lied. With friends like this Alan, who needs enemies

 

[Gary O]

Gary

If you see no ethical difference in Rich legally purchasing a website name that became available and pointing it to this site in order to increase traffic
and Alan attempting to sell information he obtained that he should not have been privy to in order to screw Rich over and put money in his pocket, then you really need to examine your own ethical center. It's in dire need of a tuneup.

Do I agree that publicly auctioning Kingsnakes.com was the best idea Rich ever came up with...? Nope....it was not a smart or ethical move. Simply buying the domain when it became available and pointing it to this site I do not find unethical in the least. Let's not forget that all of this stems from the overall ban by Kingsnake of even mentioning this site. That was the original catalyst that started the ball rolling.

Read what I said I think everything to do with the domain was unethical.

Rich said hey I would not have done it if Jeff did not do this. Alan said I would not have done this if Rich would not have done that.

Both the same thing guys.

I am done. You all have fun. No woories though. I came over becuase a mod requested it. I told them the way it would go. They thought different I believe. But shows. I was right.

 

[Gary O]

My post # 93:


Gary's post #120:


Facts seem to elude you Gary, or better put, when you need one, you make it up. Disagreements and debates, and accusations, are common fodder for the BOI. Unless a clear TOS violation, many of us go to the integrity record in Fauna of the accusor. Call it a credit check. Alan has a miserable track record. Now, just in this thread in the last couple of hours, many of your assumptions, logic paths, and exact words, have been taken to task by some of the most objective and knowledgeable entities here. I enjoy a good debate, as do many here. With regards to my words, you lied. With friends like this Alan, who needs enemies

Again you go back to a post count. I have been around years.

also you confuse fact as being truth. Fact is something that can be proven or disproven.

I did not keep up with that thread there. See again I say if I judged everyone on there post I would trust very few like the things you posted here. Also I believe Rich has even ghosted on here.............hmmmmmmmm so the Alan ghosting thing is kinda funny.

Why in your mind can one person do something but another can not. Fauna is not the holy grail. It just is not.

 

[Chameleon Company]

Gary,
If you want to engage in debate here, defending your friend Alan, or talking Rich's ethics, etc, considering the air of things of late, it can get lively, and you may have to be on your intellectual toes. Its not about how long you've been here, or your post counts, its about you inability to be truthful, given the exact and recent example I took the trouble to bring up. As I was the one deliberately misquoted by you, I had no problem asking you for a clarification. After two direct attempts, you have not provided such. Based on the quotes shown and explained, and as plainly as I know how, I am calling you a liar. Is there a more direct way of stating it ?

 

[Chameleon Company]

Rich, I doubt you put much credence in it, but Gary has now also accused you of ghosting, to include that I now face a moral dilemma of being OK with you doing it while condemning Alan for being his alias "Jen". Tell me you're not a girl when you do it too Rich !

 

[Gary O]

Gary,
If you want to engage in debate here, defending your friend Alan, or talking Rich's ethics, etc, considering the air of things of late, it can get lively, and you may have to be on your intellectual toes. Its not about how long you've been here, or your post counts, its about you inability to be truthful, given the exact and recent example I took the trouble to bring up. As I was the one deliberately misquoted by you, I had no problem asking you for a clarification. After two direct attempts, you have not provided such. Based on the quotes shown and explained, and as plainly as I know how, I am calling you a liar. Is there a more direct way of stating it ?

How many times do I have to post I think everything to do with this domain was unethical. HMMM read it one more time. I think everyone involved had some motive............

 

[Gary O]

Rich, I doubt you put much credence in it, but Gary has now also accused you of ghosting, to include that I now face a moral dilemma of being OK with you doing it while condemning Alan for being his alias "Jen". Tell me you're not a girl when you do it too Rich !

Ok go and read these threads. It seems that the poster Roger Jolly is thought to be Rich..................

But again am I the only one in this thread that can say this was all wrong? Or do we have to take a side ans say screw the other guy? Maybe it is some people that need to say hey look this was one bad thing for everyone.

 

[Chameleon Company]

We're fine with you beliefs about Rich being unethical. Who cares ? You are a liar Gary.

 

[Gary O]

Gary,
If you want to engage in debate here, defending your friend Alan, or talking Rich's ethics, etc, considering the air of things of late, it can get lively, and you may have to be on your intellectual toes. Its not about how long you've been here, or your post counts, its about you inability to be truthful, given the exact and recent example I took the trouble to bring up. As I was the one deliberately misquoted by you, I had no problem asking you for a clarification. After two direct attempts, you have not provided such. Based on the quotes shown and explained, and as plainly as I know how, I am calling you a liar. Is there a more direct way of stating it ?

You call me a liar does nothing as everyone here including Rich, Ken, Dennis, Jay, and may will tell you I do not lie.

Just becuase I do not have a "history" here. Does not make me a liar.. The way you come out and post about post count is stupid. I joined here 1 year after you. many many people know me. and Liar is far from something they would say I am.

 

[Chameleon Company]

Then you have an explanation for your specific words as outlined in post 143, where I cite your exact words as a liar. I don't care about your history elsewhere. You lied about me. I am the one calling you a liar, and didn't need anyone else's opinion to draw that conclusion. What do you not understand about your own words. LMK.

 

[romad119]

My dad can beat both of yours up.

 

[Chameleon Company]

Alan,
I can appreciate the humor. I believe you are ex-Army. Most here know I was 82nd Airborne and 5th SF for most of the '70's, ETS's as a Staff Sergeant, and went to school at William and Mary, getting a degree in Biology. My Dad passed 13 years ago, my Mom over 20. But I smiled Gary has indicated a sympathy for "ghost writers" in this and other threads tonight, seemingly in defense of Alan being "Jen", but also stating that "many do it". To the point where I was wondering if Gary might actually be Susie ? All I have to go on right now is that he has no cahones.

 

[Tsutton5]

lol`

My dad can beat both of yours up.

Thats what Im talking about.....

 

[hhmoore]

All right, this is just getting ridiculous. This has bounced along in the muck long enough.
Alan - like I said earlier, you can't act shocked that the dog snaps at after you give it a swift kick (everybody please note: the dog reference goes back to a comment Alan made about the dogs here nipping at his heels...I paraphrased it - I don't have the time or desire to look it up and quote it). The blast you launched at her in the Greg thread seemed uncalled for...even if there was alot of provocation that I am unaware of, the language was inappropriate for the forum. As far as I am concerned, though, I still consider myself a satisfied customer and am planning on purchasing more cages.
Dragging up the old crap to stir up stuff for Rich was no more right than Lucille dragging up yours. Besides, you started it, so it certainly has made some people wonder if you were planning this for whatever reasons of your own.

Lucille - Yes, Alan blasted you hard. I don't know the history, nor do I care to. I think that dredging up the old crap to post on his good guy thread was cheap and childish. I don't think I need to say anything more.

Gary - As far as I am concerned, your name is a welcome one in these forums. You, like everyone else, have opinions. Feel free to express & discuss them. I understand why you came to post, and (to an extent) why you got the reception you did...with all the upheaval of late, emotions are running strong. There is still a pretty good group here, but the nastiness and infighting is taking a toll.

Jim - I don't know Gary all that well, but he does seem to be a straight up guy. I certainly appreciate your stance, and your logic, but I'm just really getting tired of all the crap that has been flying around here. Keep that request I made via PM in mind, lol.

Rich - the old issues don't mean anything to most of us. We are dealing with the here and now. I've been trying to ignore this stuff for the reasons I have already stated to you. Guess I just got to the point I had to speak up.

Everybody else - knock it off!! You're giving me a damn headache.

 

[DaveyFig]

This is of little importance, but since it keeps being referenced, I felt I should ask. Did Alan actually attempt to sell the information to Jeff? Is there any evidence to back that up other than an email he sent to me, that I sent to Seamus, who sent it to Rich, and somehow ended up in the hands of one Jolly Roger who posted it for the world to see? It was only a day after I recieved it that it was up in the forum if I remember correctly, and at that point Alan was just talking about it, hadn't actually made an offer, or made demands. I just want to know if he tried to get money for the information, or just talked about what he thought the information was worth.

 

[Chameleon Company]

Harald,
You and I do not have the communication disconnect that I have with Gary. I have little concern for who is straight up to whom. I do not care to be deliberately misquoted by anyone in order to support their arguement elsewhere. On a related, and not surprising note, here's a post by super-mod Ken Harbart in the parallel thread about Alan, made in the last 30 minutes, regarding Gary's mistatements supporting Alan:

Gary, what Alan has lied about is the kingsnake.com affair.

Alan said that Rich lost the case. I have posted a copy of the final judgement that refutes this.

Alan stated that Jeff turned him away when he tried to cash in on his "bombshell" because he and Rich had settled. Again, this is false, as shown by the timeline of filings.

I apologize for the inconvenience of my pursuit of Gary regarding his being a liar. He lied about me, and no futher explanation of my motivation is necessary. Alan and Gary ...... its birds of a feather.

 

[DaveyFig]

argghhhh! Shiver me timber.I called him Jolly Roger when me meant to say Roger Jolly, sorry mateys!

 

[WebSlave]

You call me a liar does nothing as everyone here including Rich, Ken, Dennis, Jay, and may will tell you I do not lie.

Just becuase I do not have a "history" here. Does not make me a liar.. The way you come out and post about post count is stupid. I joined here 1 year after you. many many people know me. and Liar is far from something they would say I am.

Well, be that as it may within your own mind, Gary, but this issue still remains unanswered:

I honestly do not think he wants fauna dead.

Yeah, right. Here is a direct quote from the email made by Alan:

so right now im waiting for him to get back with me and then im going to dicuss what is in it for me lol cause i know right now that he is planning on settling for less then the $175k and i think if i could get him that full amount it might be worth something right ? i mean even if it gets him $5-$10-$50k morethen they plan to settle on .... i think thats would be worth something lol if nothing else even a the fact that he could win the 175k would be fact enough to me IMO to give someone something esp since a settlement like that could more then likely cause rich to have to shut down fauna if he looses this lawsuit and esp if its for the full 175K or more .

Emphasis added....

The choices upon reading the above quote is that either you are lying to us or you are lying to yourself. Either way it is a lie, regardless of your claim that you DO NOT LIE. Read the beginning of this thread where Alan is positively rubbing his hands in glee in anticipation of dropping this "bombshell" of his. What to you THINK his intentions were? That quote from Alan's email is pretty much as black and white as it can get. And you cannot even conceivably claim that you did not know about his intentions THEN and his intentions NOW.