• Posted 12/19/2024.
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    I am still waiting on my developer to finish up on the Classifieds Control Panel so I can use it to encourage members into becoming paying members. Google Adsense has become a real burden on the viewing of this site, but honestly it is the ONLY source of income now that keeps it afloat. I tried offering disabling the ads being viewed by paying members, but apparently that is not enough incentive. Quite frankly, Google Adsense has dropped down to where it barely brings in enough daily to match even a single paid member per day. But it still gets the bills paid. But at what cost?

    So even without the classifieds control panel being complete, I believe I am going to have to disable those Google ads completely and likely disable some options here that have been free since going to the new platform. Like classified ad bumping, member name changes, and anything else I can use to encourage this site to be supported by the members instead of the Google Adsense ads.

    But there is risk involved. I will not pay out of pocket for very long during this last ditch experimental effort. If I find that the membership does not want to support this site with memberships, then I cannot support your being able to post your classified ads here for free. No, I am not intending to start charging for your posting ads here. I will just shut the site down and that will be it. I will be done with FaunaClassifieds. I certainly don't need this, and can live the rest of my life just fine without it. If I see that no one else really wants it to survive neither, then so be it. It goes away and you all can just go elsewhere to advertise your animals and merchandise.

    Not sure when this will take place, and I don't intend to give any further warning concerning the disabling of the Google Adsense. Just as there probably won't be any warning if I decide to close down this site. You will just come here and there will be some sort of message that the site is gone, and you have a nice day.

    I have been trying to make a go of this site for a very long time. And quite frankly, I am just tired of trying. I had hoped that enough people would be willing to help me help you all have a free outlet to offer your stuff for sale. But every year I see less and less people coming to this site, much less supporting it financially. That is fine. I tried. I retired the SerpenCo business about 14 years ago, so retiring out of this business completely is not that big if a step for me, nor will it be especially painful to do. When I was in Thailand, I did not check in here for three weeks. I didn't miss it even a little bit. So if you all want it to remain, it will be in your hands. I really don't care either way.

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    Some people have indicated that finding the method to contribute is rather difficult. And I have to admit, that it is not all that obvious. So to help, here is a thread to help as a quide. How to become a contributing member of FaunaClassifieds.

    And for the record, I will be shutting down the Google Adsense ads on January 1, 2025.
  • Responding to email notices you receive.
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    In short, DON'T! Email notices are to ONLY alert you of a reply to your private message or your ad on this site. Replying to the email just wastes your time as it goes NOWHERE, and probably pisses off the person you thought you replied to when they think you just ignored them. So instead of complaining to me about your messages not being replied to from this site via email, please READ that email notice that plainly states what you need to do in order to reply to who you are trying to converse with.

sandfire dragon ranch

You know what, Jim? On this one, you are DEAD WRONG. Denise has never been anything but forthcoming about her Adeno status, and she doesn't OWE you or anyone else ANYTHING. She's also not hurting anyone by not posting her results.

I think it's pretty funny how you're proving exactly what it is that Denise has been saying about how she's had target on her back. Why is it that when people try to do things RIGHT they get this kind of crap? Why don't you go pick at someone who's not bothering to test at all?
 
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Im far from targeting anyone. No one seems to mind bashing the larger breeders am I right. Why is that those who say they are neg will only prove it to "buyers"? Sorry. I dont get it.
I guess my opinion is wrong again. Can you tell me whos opinion I should follow. Lets not make this into another long winded post about crap that is irrelevant. Those who are negative should show us all that there is hope. Or are they just going to be selfesh and lead everyone on?
Jim.
 
Tere.
One more thing. Im not sure if I missed something but who would be someone to pick at? Dachiu, Sandfire and such have said they do feel they have it. Besides the fact that there are people who feel they should test. They are openly saying they feel its all over the place.
Its not a matter of picking on ANYONE! Its the matter of are there really any dragons/colonies that are not infected with AV?
Jim
 
Good god, then dont post the laboratory on the forum - just pm the info if your so freaked out.

Tere - I didnt ask for her results - I just want to know where to send my samples.
 
JimD said:
Im far from targeting anyone. No one seems to mind bashing the larger breeders am I right. Why is that those who say they are neg will only prove it to "buyers"? Sorry. I dont get it.
I guess my opinion is wrong again. Can you tell me whos opinion I should follow. Lets not make this into another long winded post about crap that is irrelevant. Those who are negative should show us all that there is hope. Or are they just going to be selfesh and lead everyone on?
Jim.
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Jim-

I'm not real sure that I get why you or anyone else has to see results to believe what you're being told...or why you feel it's any of your business. Those who are negative shouldn't have to show anyone anything...unless it's someone planning on buying an animal from them. Seeing that Denise has no dragons for sale currently, I'm not sure why you feel you're entitled to anything.

See...it boils down to this. Just because someone has decided to take a stand on an issue doesn't mean that they have to give up their privacy. It doesn't mean they should be opened up to grilling from you or anyone else. And it doesn't mean that anyone not involved has the right to ask whatever they want, and expect to receive it.

I think that both Denise and Chasity stated their reasons for not showing their test results, and further proved that point with the removal of the watermark. If you were in their shoes, what would you do? Wait...I think I already know that answer.

Further, Jim, just like I've said to you before, do your own research and form your own opinion.
 
I think that both Denise and Chasity stated their reasons for not showing their test results, and further proved that point with the removal of the watermark. If you were in their shoes, what would you do?
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I would pick up the phone and call Dr. Stacey.



For those of you who are interested in the development of this situation and some new information regarding the adenovirus - please check out this thread.
http://www.beardeddragon.org/bjive/viewtopic.php?t=50448&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0
 
I seriously doubt that this virus ALONE without other contributing factors results in the death of an animal. We all know that if a living animal imune system is trying to fight too many cells that eventually the imune system has to choose what to fight. When the system which may have been combating the adeno virus stops fighting that particular problem and has to fight a number of other infections then and only then does the animal die.

Let me just give you an example. Many people have herpes symplex type one. Yet most of the time they do not walk around with cold sores on their faces. So what causes the cold sore to crop up? The answer is they crop up when the immune system has to go and fight another virus or infection. Then for about a week the cold sore appears. I would suspect that the same problems occur in dragons. They may indeed carry this and other virus's and live very well. However, if other infections crop up the animal simply can't fight them all and if you will the cold sore crops up showing a positive result. It is possible that at other times that the animal may test neg. for the virus. Until one has a test of the anti bodies to this virus that can be tested for in the blood or in the intestines, organs and such we are all going to have to just wait. Do you guys have any idea of how many types of bacteria run around in human intestines?
 
I have a question, what would stop someone from claiming to test their dragons, but then when asked to show proof of these tests they have none?

I am not a breeder of dragons, but something does not smell right here. Just what I see from the outside looking in. :rolleyes:
 
Those who have the Herpes virus usually have outbreaks when they are stressed or are in the sun to much.
Dragons seem to have "outbreaks" if they get stressed also.
Jim
 
Varnyard.
This has been questioned a few times and I dont know if anyone has the answer except those whom are claiming to have negative results.
Jim
 
I mean it is just like a picture, you could take a screen shot of it and watermark your logo on it, well unless it does not exist.

This would be a way to stop someone from reusing it, since that seems to be the excuse for not posting it.
 
varnyard said:
I mean it is just like a picture, you could take a screen shot of it and watermark your logo on it
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This was suggested before, and in response one of the people who isn't posting negative results had her son repost a given watermarked document, with the water mark removed. Its definately possible to remove a watermark, they said that removing the mark and retouching it so the change was imperceptible takes about 45 minutes in a black and white document (such as the test results).
I've heard that there is going to be a report given out by one of the scientists studying this quite soon, perhaps then we will have a lot more answers about adeno virus in general.
 
Well, I would think that without proof of this it would make them look bad on these claims. IMO, I would wonder if they have tested at all.

Someone can send it to any respected member here including myself that has no dog in this fight. This would be yet another way to prove these breeders have tested as they are saying, thus removing all doubt.

Until such proof is made known, I will not take it as the facts. I am more than sure many others are looking at this in a very cloudy light as well.

I will also add, these are the ones that are attacking the larger breeders for not testing, but at the same time offer no such proof they have test anything themselves.

If these people would like to send this information to me to back up their claim, then feel free to send it to [email protected]

However until it is proven, I will not buy this swampland. JMHO. :thumbsup:
 
I'm going to say this one last time with feeling. My test results are not being emailed to anyone I don't know, PERIOD. As has already been shown, test results can easily be altered, and I don't know you at all. You say you have no dog in this fight, but you're chasing the thread around to different forums and engaging in the same type of character assassination we've seen going on around this topic for MONTHS, so I would assume that if you have no dog, you're backing someone who does.
I've also made it clear that not only will I produce my test results to buyers, I'm working with my Vet to find a way that my results can be easily verified, because hopefully by now everyone understands that just because you have paper that says you're clean doesn't necessarily make it true. If I, with my limited knowledge of computers can alter a pdf document in minutes, anyone can do it.
So, now we are right back to where we started. The bottom line is that I could have ducked or said NOTHING about this issue, and continued running my business as I have in the past, or I could say something. I did what I thought was right, and I'm going to continue doing it.
There is one more thing that you can take to the bank, not only will I make sure BEFORE I sell a dragon that my test results can be verified by buyers, I'll make this guarantee here the same way I have ALREADY done on my website. I admit I don't know everything about this virus, I am not an expert, I am not a researcher, a vet or a "specialist". I'm a hobbyist that is trying to do the best I can by the dragons I own. Since that is the case, not only will I do everything in my power to make sure that I am NOT intentionally passing this virus on, I guarantee right here and right now that if in fact there are no guarantee's, and someone gets a dragon from me that tests positive, I'll buy it back, 100%, no hesitations, I'll put my money where my mouth is and that is the absolute best thing I can do.
One last thing. My phone number is on my website, anyone with questions or concerns can pick up the phone and call me. I'm not hiding, I have no agenda, I've openly participated in these threads for months without saying anything negative about anyone or pointing fingers at anyone, and I'm not going to start now.
 
Denise, you need not worry about me, if you think I would ruin my reputation over your test results, then no, you don't know me. But you can ask anyone who does know me, I do not play that game. :NoNo:
 
varnyard said:
Denise, you need not worry about me, if you think I would ruin my reputation over your test results, then no, you don't know me. But you can ask anyone who does know me, I do not play that game. :NoNo:
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You misunderstand me. I am not worried about you, or really anyone. I'm a hobbyist first and foremost, this isn't my living, my dragons are PETS. I am frustrated, incredibly frustrated, by this whole subject.
I've made my position clear on this since the very first time I responded to a thread, I'm just one person trying to make the right decisions for me. I haven't told anyone what to do, I haven't made any judgments about people who believe differently, I've just given my opinion and tried to be very clear that it was just my opinion.
I have also NOT claimed that I am 100% clear of this virus. At first testing, I had one dragon come back positive. Since then I have had 2 more test positive, the 2 that later tested positive I had already adopted out, but I'm the one who paid to have them tested, because it was my responsibility.
I'm not a "big" breeder, I don't have 100 lizards, so having 3 dragons test positive has been huge for me personally.
All the dragons currently in my home have tested negative both on Fecal EM and PCR testing. Does that mean I can be 100% sure that I am not also affected? No, and I have NEVER said any different. The ONLY thing I've ever claimed is that I'm doing what I feel I have to do to protect my dragons, and that means I test.
I don't think its an accident that all the people that have come out and strongly advocated for testing has been attacked. I've tried to stay out of it as much as possible, and not once have I mentioned where the dragons I had that tested positive came from because my goal here is not to HURT anyone.

I'll tell you right now that I'm not into being controversial, I stay out of the drama if at all possible, but once people start calling my vet, then I start to get angry. It gets worse, I've been forwarded emails from people and been told by others that people are specifically trying to get their hands on my test results, but they didn't come to me first and ask, and really, if it hadn't been for all the sneaky stuff, I might feel a bit more cooperative right now.
Then I had someone CALL me on the phone to tell me that they were told that there were plans to people to buy babies from me than attack me on this forum and accuse me of selling positive babies. How the HECK do you defend against something like that?
I've been involved in this thread for months, and have yet to say anything negative about anyone, I even jumped to Sandfires defense when the first fingers got pointed their way and warned of the dangers in pointing fingers at people. In return, my name has been dragged through the mud by people who have no clue who I am, and don't even have the minimal respect to pick up the phone and deal with me directly, but I don't think the goal here is the truth, I think that anyone who vocally supports testing is a target, and the behind the scenes smear jobs are pretty pathetic. I've never engaged in them, anyone who knows me or has done business with me knows that, and in the end, the one thing I know for sure, is that at the end of this mess, I'll still be standing in the exact same position I'm in now because I've been nothing but honest.
 
This is one very contravercial issues. We all have different views on how we deal with it in our own colonies. I have discussed this in length with other breeder and my vet. I do not test unless I see there might be a problem. I had two of my dragons tested a while back because I paniced when I heard that Sunshine Dragons had it in their colony. Both my dragons tested negative. do I have the paperwork? No, I never asked for it from my vet, I see no need too. I think everyone is blowing this whole deal way out of proportion. What sense does it make to spend hundreds of dollars testing our colonies when there is no definate negative or positive? One breeder seems to think it is a baby desease and I am inclined to agree with her. Testing positive at two months then testing negative at six months....Can we ever be 100% sure? I doubt it. At least until they can come up with a absolute test I believe this will continue to be a problem no matter what we do. Don't blame the breeder...even if they did test and got negative results, does that mean that the babies will be negative? Not necessarily. Until more research and absolute testing is available we need to stop pointing fingers at each other.
 
Great post!
What I dont understand is who everyone is talking about that is saying "dont test!"
I have not seen one person who has said that. Ive seen those who dont feel the need but are not against it. Can someone clarify this.
Jim.
 
Denisebme: All the dragons currently in my home have tested negative both on Fecal EM and PCR testing.
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Denise, we both know that one of the tests you claim to have done does not exist. There is no blood test for this virus, so why do you keep trying to act like there is?

What lab was it that tested your dragons?

You keep blowing smoke, and then wonder why people doubt that you tested at all. There are way too many excuses why you cannot let anyone see the results, would this be because there are no results?

I am one of many that have very high doubts that any testing has been done on your dragons, but then you want to slam the larger breeders for not testing at all. IMO it is worse to claim testing and give people false hope, then to be honest from the start as many of these larger breeders have done.

I would love to make this candy coated, but these are the facts. You are not the only one I have my doubts about, there is more that are making the same claims as you.

As I have stated many times here, I have no dog in this fight and I would not ruin my reputation over your test results. That said, you have not shown any proof as to testing anything, you have went in a big circle, but that is far from any proof.
 
JimD said:
Great post!
What I dont understand is who everyone is talking about that is saying "dont test!"
I have not seen one person who has said that. Ive seen those who dont feel the need but are not against it. Can someone clarify this.
Jim.
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Sorry Jim, but I see this very differently. First off, I think its up to the breeders to decide if they are going to test or not, and I strongly disagree with people who are making value judgments about the motivation of breeders who don't. A consumer has the absolute right to ask the question, and if they don't like the answer, they can take their business elsewhere, but I draw the line at attacking people.
There is a flip side to this, and to understand that, you have to think like the consumer. They have a right to know what is going on, they have a right to expect honest answers from the people they are doing business with, and if they don't get them, they have a right to bring their complaints here, that's exactly what the BOI was created for.
It would be completely irresponsible to say that the whole burden here lies with the person who is considering buying a dragon, and the average person buying their first reptile pet really has no clue, so who is responsible for educating them?
I can understand the furor of people, particularly owners who have just found out their much loved pet is sick, who are on this forum listening to people say that they have no plans to test. I can understand the frustration of an owner who truly and honestly believes that the people who bred her animal sold her a sick one. More than anything right now, because I'm walking in these shoes, I understand the frustration of small breeders who have come out in favor of testing and found themselves on the receiving end of some pretty vile personal attacks.
Its easy to say "I haven't seen anyone say don't test", but the message that gets sent when all people see on these forums is the people who are advocating FOR testing getting personally attacked is that if you choose to test, don't talk about it. Every single person who has come forward with a personal story about this virus has been ravaged in these forums, and that you don't have to take my word for, you can read it yourself.
So, maybe no one is actually saying "don't test", but the message that is getting out to people is that IF they test, and IF they choose to talk about it, they are fair game to get ripped to shreds simply because they have done what they honestly feel is the right thing for them.
It takes some spine to stand up on these forums right now and make a strong statement EITHER way about this virus, but it takes none, none at all, to drive a rumor mill behind the scenes or lead a campaign offline to harass people into being quiet by flooding all these forums with nasty rumors and attacks.
 
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