sandfire dragon ranch

[varnyard]

Denisebme: It takes some spine to stand up on these forums right now and make a strong statement EITHER way about this virus, but it takes none, none at all, to drive a rumor mill behind the scenes or lead a campaign offline to harass people into being quiet by flooding all these forums with nasty rumors and attacks.

If you call asking for proof of your statments attacks, then I do not know what to tell you. If you make such claims, then proof is required in my book. I am sure that I am not the only one that feels this way.

I have not contacted your vet or made any offline harassments to you, is this yet more smoke? You made these claims, all I have asked is that you back them up. IMO that is not too much to ask.

 

[Denisebme]

Denise, we both know that one of the tests you claim to have done does not exist. There is no blood test for this virus, so why do you keep trying to act like there is?

What lab was it that tested your dragons?

You keep blowing smoke, and then wonder why people doubt that you tested at all. There are way too many excuses why you cannot let anyone see the results, would this be because there are no results?

I am one of many that have very high doubts that any testing has been done on your dragons, but then you want to slam the larger breeders for not testing at all. IMO it is worse to claim testing and give people false hope, then to be honest from the start as many of these larger breeders have done.

I would love to make this candy coated, but these are the facts. You are not the only one I have my doubts about, there is more that are making the same claims as you.

As I have stated many times here, I have no dog in this fight and I would not ruin my reputation over your test results. That said, you have not shown any proof as to testing anything, you have went in a big circle, but that is far from any proof.

Actually Varnyard, you're making a claim right now without having all the facts, but since your main goal seems to be to attempt to discredit me, feel free.
See, unlike you, I know what lab my VET used and I know my Vet, and I have every reason to be confident that the information she is giving me is as correct as any result floating around today.
I'd invite you to show me one post where I have slammed anyone personally, including the "large breeders". It hasn't happened. Sure seems like someone put a lot of effort into convincing you that it did though, so they'll have no problem providing proof, right?
See, there are people who know me well that know absolutely that I'm telling the truth, you I don't know at all, so explain to me why I should, would or need to provide you with anything? Have you purchased a dragon from me? nope. Has anyone who has come here and said that their babies tested positive? Nope. Have I sold, bought and traded with people on Fauna? Yep. Did I offer to pay to have the babies I sold tested? yes I did. Why? Because I sold most of those dragons before I tested or even had any idea that this virus was a threat.
This is what I have the biggest problem with. My phone rang all day, all people calling to ask me questions about MY testing status, and I can pretty much guarantee you ONE thing, I sincerely doubt if ANY of those people I talked to will come into this forum and say that I was anything BUT straight up and honest with them because that is how I do business, not dealing with people that have nothing better to do than participate in this drama or attack people that they haven't even bothered to talk to.
So, exactly WHO has the credibility issue here? I'm not the one pursuing some agenda offline I don't have the courage or integrity to deal with directly.

 

[varnyard]

Denise, once again it is the circle and smoke screen. But the fact remains there is no proof you ever tested anything.

Now you can call this an attack, but that is far from the fact. I have asked you for proof that you have tested your dragons, you want to call that an attack. No Denise, that is not the way out of this. You made claims that are far from proven facts, all I have done is asked for proof of these claims. But it seems once again, you have none.

IMO, it would be real easy to clear this up and take the high road, but you do not want to go there. I would think if you have tested your dragons you would want to clear this up. Instead you keep darting the thing that could clear your name, it looks like there is no results of testing that never happen IMO. That would answer the question, would it not?

 

[Denisebme]

If you call asking for proof of your statments attacks, then I do not know what to tell you. If you make such claims, then proof is required in my book. I am sure that I am not the only one that feels this way.

I have not contacted your vet or made any offline harassments to you, is this yet more smoke? You made these claims, all I have asked is that you back them up. IMO that is not too much to ask.

I've never said that people asking for proof are attacking, I said that people who consistently attack ANYONE who advocates for testing is attacking. I will say this absolutely, if you're on here questioning people's integrity on a subject that you have zero firsthand information on, either you are looking to create more drama on this subject, and there is plenty of that already, or you have another reason for inserting yourself, and I couldn't even begin to guess what that is, and frankly, I don't care.
I've also stated repeatedly that I have no problems at all giving my test results to people I do business with or even providing the means to which they can verify my test results to insure that they are getting EXACTLY the same information I have. Does that strike you as dishonest?
I've even gone so far as to say that I'll stand behind my results 100% with MY MONEY. I'm not hiding behind a 14 day guarantee knowing that a reasonable person wouldn't be able to get testing done in that period of time.
Yeah, I'm so "dishonest" that I've stated time and time again that I don't know what the future holds for my dragons, all I can say is what their status is as of the last test. Sure sounds like I'm trying to hide something, right? NOT.
My home phone number is ON my webpage, and as anyone can tell you that calls, if I'm here, I actually answer it and TALK to people. Sometimes, like today, for an hour if they really want to grill me.
So, just a message to anyone who thinks I'm "fair game", I'm not going anywhere and I'm finished playing nice, and I'm not playing this by anyone's rules but my own. I'm not going to post my results on a public board and I'm not going to send them to someone I don't know. You have a problem with that, its YOUR problem, not mine. This is a small, small community in the end, and I believe firmly in the concept of Karma. Do the right thing, have the right result in the end. Roll in the poo, you end up smelling like poo and everyone around you can smell it long before you do.

 

[varnyard]

Denise, once again, no proof you tested anything. Once again no proof to back up your claims and I might add yet more smoke added to the screen.

These are the facts.

 

[Denisebme]

Denise, once again it is the circle and smoke screen. But the fact remains there is no proof you ever tested anything.

Now you can call this an attack, but that is far from the fact. I have asked you for proof that you have tested your dragons, you want to call that an attack. No Denise, that is not the way out of this. You made claims that are far from proven facts, all I have done is asked for proof of these claims. But it seems once again, you have none.

IMO, it would be real easy to clear this up and take the high road, but you do not want to go there. I would think if you have tested your dragons you would want to clear this up. Instead you keep darting the thing that could clear your name, it looks like there is no results of testing that never happen IMO. That would answer the question, would it not?

I'm not "darting" anything, I'm flat out REFUSING to provide you with something you have absolutely no right to. Are we clear yet?
I have no clue what your version of "taking the high road" is, but I can tell you one thing, this ain't it buddy. I don't know you, you don't know me, you have no evidence that I am keeping, selling or breeding infected animals, yet you continue. Why?
What "name" do I have to clear? Mine? My Vets? The lab my vet choose to use? Has anyone who has done business with come here to complain about me? No. Has anyone I sold a dragon to, and I sold dragons last year, said anything negative about me? No. So what exactly do I have to prove to YOU? Who do I have an obligation to?
You've already put words in my mouth I didn't utter when you accused me of attacking large breeders, and I'm the one with a credibility issue? No, I don't think so.
Do you know my vet? Probably not. Do you know what lab she used? No, I don't think so. Do you know me? No. Have you asked around to find out who I've done business with? Nope. Do you care at all? it doesn't appear that you do.
So, you can continue doing what you're doing, and I'll continue saying and doing what I've been saying and doing all along, except I will no longer be arguing with you unless you can give me one good reason why I should. Last I checked, you were not my husband, and he's the only person in my life I'm duty bound to answer to and argue with.

 

[Tere Salazar]

Denise, we both know that one of the tests you claim to have done does not exist. There is no blood test for this virus, so why do you keep trying to act like there is?

What lab was it that tested your dragons?

See...this is really where you should know the facts before you speak. The University of Florida doesn't use a blood test as part of the PCR testing. Does that mean that no lab in the United States does? No. The University of Florida is NOT the only lab in the United States that does testing for Adenovirus.

Furthermore, if you go back and read the threads, Denise never claimed to have used the University of Florida for her PCR testing. In fact, in one thread, she stated where the lab was that did her testing. Happy reading.

 

[puppytoes72]

wow,this thread has just turned into an argument between denise and varnyard for the past few pages.back on topic,to catch everyone up.jojo came from sandfire and she is positive for the virus.when i notified them ,kevin stated there is no problem,ALL BEARDIES have it.he does not plan on doing anything about it,in fact he stated that they have way too many beardies to test.instead sandfire is going to continue breeding and selling their infected colony.buyer beware!!ask questions b4 you buy from any breeder!

 

[fstop2100a]

Kevin is correct in most of what he said. He can't test all the dragons or even all the breaders and even if he could some would test ok today and positive a month later. Do you want dragons to sell for 2000 a copy. Although I am not convinced that ALL dragons will test positive at some point in their life cycle I do believe that most dragons like 95% will test positive at some point in thier life. In fact a lot of living beings will test positive for one type of virus or another at some point. Only G-d is pure and many will argue based on the world as we know it that could not be true either. Just look at this world folks. If this forum can't be used for intelligent, reasonalbe disscussion and turns into cat fighting the forum looses its real purpose. Rumor and bad info don't help the dragons or any of us. Therefore, would you consider trying to behave as we should.... Thanks for your consideration...

 

[walker75]

Furthermore, if you go back and read the threads, Denise never claimed to have used the University of Florida for her PCR testing. In fact, in one thread, she stated where the lab was that did her testing. Happy reading.
__________________
Tere and John Salazar


I took Tere's advise and went and re read the thread I believed this information is in..

Yep it is still there...

In fact I have been re - reading and researching alot. There is alot of good informative information in the threads of neverlands and saladdragons

I would like thank Tere- Wendy- Cheri S and Denisebme for taking the time

to still answer questions and post. Education is the key to knowledge as someone says.

Thanks for educating the consumer public and for trying to do Right for the dragons. Breeders are aware of this virus now b/c it has hit them also.

puppietoes I am sorry your thread was hijacked thank you for bring this forward ...

 

[Bar None Reptiles]

Could someone point me in the direction of the thread where the lab was mentioned? I know I posted incorrectly based on what my vet told me about being able to get a blood test done by California Avian. I went back to her to get the test done and she was told they cannot test for adenovirus using that method. She tried Florida, no one will test using that manner. So if someone has a lab, not asking for your personal vet info cuz I could care less, but the actual LAB that processed the results I would really appreciate knowing. I have a dragon that I cannot get a fecal on and this is my only option left. I have been trying to gather a fecal for him for 4 months now, this just isn't gonna happen this way. I have sent my poor vet on a wild goose chase looking for a lab that will process a blood test and no one will.

 

[markface]

wow,this thread has just turned into an argument between denise and varnyard for the past few pages.back on topic,to catch everyone up.jojo came from sandfire and she is positive for the virus.when i notified them ,kevin stated there is no problem,ALL BEARDIES have it.he does not plan on doing anything about it,in fact he stated that they have way too many beardies to test.instead sandfire is going to continue breeding and selling their infected colony.buyer beware!!ask questions b4 you buy from any breeder!

i dont usually get involved in these pissin matches , but i just have a question . puppytoes . , most of your posts say this dragon came from sandfire , but infact you bought it from petco . why do you feel that it must be sandfires fault that your animal bought from a large petstore chain is ill ? as asked before , can you show proof that the dragon in question came from sandfire ? can you show proof that if it did come from sandfire that it was sick before it left their facility ? can you show proof that petco had nothing to do with your dragon getting sick ? and lastly , can you show proof that sandfire has and is selling sick animals ? if not , it just seems to me IMHO that you are just attacking a large breeder out of spite .

i work in a large privately owned petshop and we have purchased dragons from sandfire in the past with no health problems whatsover . atleast none that have shown signs and no customers of ours have complained about the animals we have sold them that came from sandfire .

i can see where the manager of petco would be happy to pass the blame of your animals ill health back to the breeder so as not to have to deal with it himself , but are you sure that petco is not to blame for your animals health issues ?

just my 2 cents worth

 

[puppytoes72]

mark,i saw the paperwork myself,jojo did come from sandfire 1 week b4 i bought her.i spoke to sandfire and they also believe she came from there too.so YES,i can prove that she did come from there.how many people have their pet tested for adeno and go back to tell petco?im sure it is not many,but i was trying to do the right thing,so YOU saying that YOU have never had any complaints from customers is not surprising because most will not go to the lengths i did to find out!

 

[puppytoes72]

also petco had her for one week,sandfire has alot more reponsibility in this than petco does.AND sandfire is NOT denying they have adeno in their colony,so why dont YOU get your facts straight.

 

[markface]

mark,i saw the paperwork myself,jojo did come from sandfire 1 week b4 i bought her.i spoke to sandfire and they also believe she came from there too.so YES,i can prove that she did come from there.how many people have their pet tested for adeno and go back to tell petco?im sure it is not many,but i was trying to do the right thing,so YOU saying that YOU have never had any complaints from customers is not surprising because most will not go to the lengths i did to find out!

i did not ask if you have seen proof , i asked if you can show proof . i'll even consede that the dragon came originally from sandfire , but you bought it from petco . your statement does nothing to answer my other questions though .

can you show proof that if it did come from sandfire that it was sick before it left their facility ? can you show proof that petco had nothing to do with your dragon getting sick ? and lastly , can you show proof that sandfire has and is selling sick animals ?

also please dont belittle my customers by saying that you went to lengths that they would not because you dont know my customers . we sell to local breeders as well as plain hobbiests . many of our customers will go to great lengths also for their animals .

 

[markface]

also petco had her for one week,sandfire has alot more reponsibility in this than petco does.AND sandfire is NOT denying they have adeno in their colony,so why dont YOU get your facts straight.

alot of breeders if they tested would find adeno in their colonies at some point in time . that in and of itself does not mean the animals in question are going to die of it or become ill from it .

as for getting my facts straight , that is what i am attempting to do . the only way i can is by asking questions and hopefully recieving straight answers .

 

[markface]

also petco had her for one week,sandfire has alot more reponsibility in this than petco does.AND sandfire is NOT denying they have adeno in their colony,so why dont YOU get your facts straight.

also , i guess you are saying that a week at petco is not enough time to contract an illness ?

 

[puppytoes72]

who are you to demand to see proof???? i have the proof and sandfire is not denying it.i am not saying anything against your customers but why dont you ask them who has tested for adeno??i never said that jojo was sold to me sick,i stated that she has adeno.im curious ,who are you defending here?sandfire?what do you have in all of this?i try to do the right thing and notify the public(when the breeders should be)and i get attacked for it.lol,im not playing your game.i did what i came to do and thats it.why dont you pay attention before you speak and put words in my mouth.

 

[puppytoes72]

also , i guess you are saying that a week at petco is not enough time to contract an illness ?

im not saying that either and im not defending petco.bottom line is sandfire is NOT denying that they have adeno and they chose not to do anything about or even put something about it on their website.

 

[markface]

who are you to demand to see proof???? i have the proof and sandfire is not denying it.i am not saying anything against your customers but why dont you ask them who has tested for adeno??i never said that jojo was sold to me sick,i stated that she has adeno.im curious ,who are you defending here?sandfire?what do you have in all of this?i try to do the right thing and notify the public(when the breeders should be)and i get attacked for it.lol,im not playing your game.i did what i came to do and thats it.why dont you pay attention before you speak and put words in my mouth.

i am not attacking anyone . i am asking simple questions because i am interested . i am also not defending anyone . i am just asking simple questions . i think it is commendable that you want to help other pet owners . i just want to know how you can expect everyone to just say yup she is right and sandfire is crap based on just what you say . if i'm going to accuse someone of bad buisness practices , i am going to have hard evidence and am going to be happy to put that evidence up for everyones scrutiny . so far all i have seen is saying people should beware of sandfire with no proof of why other than your word .