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sanity check: am I looking at an browned-out Axanthic of some kind?

SirenSanJose

SirenSanJose

aka: dheideman
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Sorry, folks. I know these "OMG I bought this animal at Petco and it's TOTALLY NOT A NORMAL tell me how rare and valuable it is" threads drive everyone crazy, and I'm sorry to be creating one. But this guys is really puzzling me.

So, I picked up several normal balls locally on Craigslist last week. Among them was an adult male, deep in shed.




I didn't think anything of it, until yesterday when I went to feed everyone, and saw he'd shed. Once he showed me his new skin, something looked "off". So I picked him up, and took a good close look at him ... and he doesn't appear to have a drop of yellow, anywhere on his body. He's brown, and white, and that's it -- which is the technical definition of axanthic, no yellow (or red) pigment. Back me up? Tell me I'm crazy? (All these photos were taken in natural sunlight, no flash, no correction.)











Here he is next to a normal female:






(that's her head, not his)

Now, what I don't know is if he'll prove to be a *genetic* axanthic -- but the good news there is that I have 4 of his 3-year-old daughters, who are all a bit undersized but well may make breeding week by spring. (Their mother, who I saw but do not own, was an everyday normal.)

If any or all of them do reach breeding weight on time, I should be able to prove or disprove him this season. This doesn't appear to be a co-dom gene like the "het red axanthic" gene, as all of his kids are visually (mostly) normal, with visible yellow. So if it's genetic, it's recessive, but they should carry it.

His original owner bought him at a pet store about 5, 6 years ago, as a normal, so nothing is known about his lineage or if he actually is an existing strain of axanthic or something new.

Here he is with the oddest looking of his daughters, she's got some weird patchy color. One other girl is patchy like her, the other two look completely normal.






From left to right: Normal female, "axanthic" male, "het axanthic" daughter

 
I may be wrong, but it might be the black back influencing the color.
He looks similar in color to a black back I once owned, and he's not axanthic.
Chocolatefun31Medium.jpg
 
And this is why I always make a B-line to the reptile section of our Petco. XD
I love finding interesting normals,or possible not normals~
 
deborahbroadus said:
Normal, but could be het Red, or het Albino.
Click to expand...
"het red" is a codom gene, not recessive like axanthic, correct? I don't *think* he's het red, because all of his offspring (4f, 3m) were all normals, and if he were a "het red" he should have passed it on to about half of them, right?
 
SirenSanJose said:
"het red" is a codom gene, not recessive like axanthic, correct? I don't *think* he's het red, because all of his offspring (4f, 3m) were all normals, and if he were a "het red" he should have passed it on to about half of them, right?
Click to expand...

Yes, to my knowledge without brushing up on the genetics (been out of the game for a minute) Het Red is a codom gene.

However, it can be difficult to distinguish a poorly represented Het Red from a normal (been there done that).
 
deborahbroadus said:
Yes, to my knowledge without brushing up on the genetics (been out of the game for a minute) Het Red is a codom gene.

However, it can be difficult to distinguish a poorly represented Het Red from a normal (been there done that).
Click to expand...

Heh, fair enough. Two of his four girls are "weird looking" and splotchy, while two look completely normal. Certainly going to put him back on one or two of them, if they hit weight, just to see what pops out -- at worst, I produce a bunch of normals, oh well, I took a gamble and lost. At best I'm pleasantly surprised and get something other.
 
It it was a het red you would probably be able to tell from the babies even if they weren't very abberant because the coloring is much darker as babies.
 
dustinNMpythons said:
It it was a het red you would probably be able to tell from the babies even if they weren't very abberant because the coloring is much darker as babies.
Click to expand...

I haven't seen any of these animals as babies -- the females are 2-3 years old (at about 700-800g) and the male's a full grown adult. So I have no idea what their baby coloration would have been or how it changed.
 
Yes more of a rust in the blushing as they age but when they are newborns they are really dark much darker than normals. If you use him this year you should be able to pick them out if thats what it is.
 
dustinNMpythons said:
Yes more of a rust in the blushing as they age but when they are newborns they are really dark much darker than normals. If you use him this year you should be able to pick them out if thats what it is.
Click to expand...

Yep, that's the plan, I know babies are a *lot* easier to distinguish than adults. Never hurts to try, worst case I get a pile of normals, and there are far worse fates than that.
 
I'd say you have a shot at HRA with him. Or as you pointed out, worst you'll get are some pretty normals.
 
I am not seeing het red at all... not only is it the color that het red have, but they tend to have a mojo like pattern with the squiggly lines ( like black pastels can have) and a break in the neck stripe. However, I too can be mistaken...

here is my het red:

IMG_4269.jpg


he has some squigglies,. but not the best example of them... color- most i seen are darker looking...

check out the morph guide:

http://www.nextworldexotics.com/hghra.htm

babies would tell ya for sure. But I wouldn't bank on het red, IMHO its a long shot.

nice looking animal nonetheless.
 
The break in the neck stripe doesn't have to be that extreme though and if you look in the first photo that girl does have a spot in the neck stripe. Just saying some of the examples aren't as extreme and it's usually when a het red is bred to a normal instead of a red axanthic to a normal. There's still a chance Diana, it just doesn't seem that likely without the squiggles.
 
I had both a male and female Het Red. Below are their pics. The duller one (before I learned a bit about photography) was labeled a Normal by all but the most experienced eyes.:D

First picture is the female, the second picture is the male.
 

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hmmm... ok, deborah- see, the first one i wouldnt say was a het red- second- yeah. I see what you mean better now. I guess the only het reds i been looking at were the extreme ones....

keep us updated on the babies- i am so curious now... :D
 
edf01 said:
hmmm... ok, deborah- see, the first one i wouldnt say was a het red- second- yeah. I see what you mean better now. I guess the only het reds i been looking at were the extreme ones....

keep us updated on the babies- i am so curious now... :D
Click to expand...

Exactly! What I was trying to convey was that within the morph itself is so much variation (every morph, really) that there's no, "one picture identifies all." The guide that you pointed out is great, but it is a guide; the descriptions of any morph aren't "static" in real life.

I'm curious, too. The Het Red is (imo) among one of the more subtle morphs like the YB unless (as you noted) they have the "extreme" (guide example) coloration/pattern).

p.s. Both animals came from the same well-known breeder and both of them cost me a pretty penny.:)
 
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