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Selective spider breeding

If all spiders wobble, then how can you say that Mooing Tricycle's wobbles? There's no wobble visable there.
If you observe ANY ball python closely for an extended amount of time, especially when they are fixated on prey, you are certain to see some tremer, some tilt, some anything that you can point to and go "AH HA!!". But that's like someone following you around all day long, until you bump into something and immediately saying that you are drunk. Everyone bumps into things at some point, and every snake is going to do something odd at some point.
I stand by my statement. Not all spiders wobble. My Sam doesn't. The 3 babies don't seem to, although being tiny hatchlings, I've seen their heads move around when they have them raised up looking at prey, but same as other tiny hatchlings, so I can't say yea or nay. Hepburn DOES wobble and is an extreme case.
Again, now I have time to video, and no batterys. Sigh. Tomorrow I shall pick up batteries. Uploading vids takes a while, but hopefully I'll get something up this weekend at the latest.
Nice snake MooingTricycle BTW.
 
Wolfy-hound said:
If all spiders wobble, then how can you say that Mooing Tricycle's wobbles? There's no wobble visable there.

Nice snake MooingTricycle BTW.
Click to expand...


Thanks so much for the kind words Theresa!!!

Im looking forward to yours, and others videos/pictures too! * if anyone else wants to join in on this thread of course*





:thumbsup: :thumbsup:
 
Not all spiders wobble.
You can find ones that don't.
Mine don't wobble and others have ones that don't wobble.
 
SPJ said:
Not all spiders wobble.
You can find ones that don't.
Mine don't wobble and others have ones that don't wobble.
Click to expand...

Spiders are beautiful. I'm thinking that until there's a better idea on how the wobble trait is passed, perhaps it might be a good choice to hold off breeding those that actually exhibit a really bad wobble.
 
lucille said:
Spiders are beautiful. I'm thinking that until there's a better idea on how the wobble trait is passed, perhaps it might be a good choice to hold off breeding those that actually exhibit a really bad wobble.
Click to expand...

I agree.. And you might want to hold off selling the wobbly ass ones also. It is Rediculous to even think about selling a proven breeder Wobbll spider male..

I can post ^^ that right? this is a discussion forum I think... :rofl::rofl::reddevil:
 
There's also a big difference between THAT post, and the one that you received an infraction for...:shootfoot
 
wel looks like i provoked a discussion with my ad trying to sell my wobbly one. i bought two spiders in 2006 (brothers) one of which wobbles. they were both fine until the end of the breeding season last year, and the one started wobbling. when he's in the tub he's fine and dandy, he navigates around his enclosure with ease. but, when you pick him up, or when he gets the smell of food, he gets all loopy. i bred him before he exhibited the trait, and kept his (and his brothers ) offspring for up to a year and not one wobbled. i didn't hear about wobbling until i wondered what the hell was wrong with my snake. is it wrong to sell him? i dont even want to mention what i paid for them, and i would do it again( i love them wobble or not). but as far as breeding him again??? luckily i dont have any spider projects to even consider it.but truthfully, i think alot of people would rather have a wobbly bee or any other spider morph, than none at all.
 
Having purchased my spiders in 06, as well, I know very well what they went for then...but I don't necessarily agree with your stance. Personally, I wouldn't breed a wobbler. As far as selling them, I don't have a problem with you offering yours for sale because you were very forthcoming about the condition...but, I certainly wouldn't buy it for my breeding program. It has been stated repeatedly that wobblers can produce stable offspring, and that stable adults can produce wobblers - but, IMO, that is no reason to use what I would consider sub par animals as breeding stock. If my project yields babies that wobble early on?? I guess it would depend on the degree...if it is severe, they will find their way into the freezer (or become feeders); if it is mild, I might hold onto them to see if the condition improves.

BTW, if you check the date of this thread, you will see that your ad had nothing to do with its start....but, with the option of posting in your thread removed, the discussions moved to a couple of different places.
 
the thing is that i didn't start wobbling until going into its third year and it had already been bred the previous season. his brother (the non wobbler as of right now) is the one i bred this past season. now does that mean i shouldn't have bred him as well because his litter mate wobbles now? even a ferrari with flat tires and body damage can be sold, and maybe even driven. the price i'm offering, i'm losing out big time. a wobbler may be all some can afford.
 
Well here is how I see it,

A spider that wobbles severely shouldn't be bred, we are not here to reinforce severe wobbling after all. However, since it has been stated the founding male wobbled and that spiders that don't wobble can produce wobbling babies I strongly believe the wobbling is something tied directly to the spider genes and I highly doubt it can be bred out. Not all may exhibit the wobble but I'm sure most of those if not all still carry what causes wobbles.

I'd very much prefer a spider that doesn't wobble since it isn't a desirable trait, but I wouldn't permanently shelf an animal that expressed a slight wobble either.

I think there should be research done on wobbler to normal and non wobbler to normal breedings with %'s taken of how many animals expressed the wobble and to what severity.
 
zacalaca said:
the thing is that i didn't start wobbling until going into its third year and it had already been bred the previous season. his brother (the non wobbler as of right now) is the one i bred this past season. now does that mean i shouldn't have bred him as well because his litter mate wobbles now? even a ferrari with flat tires and body damage can be sold, and maybe even driven. the price i'm offering, i'm losing out big time. a wobbler may be all some can afford.
Click to expand...

An entire paragraph of rationalization.
 
You'd be losing big time, even if you were selling a perfect male - and I'm not saying anything against you selling it...it's yours, you have that right. I said I wouldn't use a wobbler in my breeding program. As for a wobbler being all some people can afford, that's a matter of perspective and standards. Maybe they can't afford a breedable male for about $150 more, but that doesn't mean they can't afford a nonwobbler...just that they may not be able to breed it this year.
As you said in your ad, somebody will buy it...and more than likely use it as a breeder.
 
I pay attention. but my ad has sparked new activity. whatever the case, HEY EVERYBODY THE SPIDER I USED TO BREED THIS PAST SEASON HAS A BROTHER WHO WOBBLES, I KNEW THIS AND DID IT ANYWAY. like i said at least i'm honest and didn't try and play down his condition. i hope he can be someones pet, but i wouldn't care if they did breed it- thats their choice. if i saw a catotonic, one eyed, mite infested genetic stripe super phantom ghost pied double het caramel and albino up for sale for 500, i'd strongly consider buying it, if i didn't jump all over it. call it justification or whatever, i know i dont want any "extra" snakes in my collection, and i figured selling him was better than shelving him. rats aren't free last i checked
 
zacalaca said:
if i saw a catotonic, one eyed, mite infested genetic stripe super phantom ghost pied double het caramel and albino up for sale for 500, i'd strongly consider buying it
Click to expand...

You are certainly establishing your reputation as a buyer and seller of the halt and the lame.....
 
Personally. I do not breed to make money, I am breeding to make beautiful, high quality animals. The animals that I purchased to be future breeders are high quality. I had very little money, but I saved up!

I PERSONALLY would never breed a snake that was knowingly defective. Anything that has an obvious genetic defect. (yes I am aware of the spider issues. There are different levels. I would not buy nor sell heavy wobbler. and agree that babies born with a severe wobble should be freezer food. regardless if it is a spider/bee/other mix)

No one eyed wonders will breed here.

The only reason I can see to knowingly breed defects is for greed, or/and a lack of care for quality of the reptiles.
 
zacalaca said:
I pay attention. but my ad has sparked new activity. whatever the case, HEY EVERYBODY THE SPIDER I USED TO BREED THIS PAST SEASON HAS A BROTHER WHO WOBBLES, I KNEW THIS AND DID IT ANYWAY. like i said at least i'm honest and didn't try and play down his condition. i hope he can be someones pet, but i wouldn't care if they did breed it- thats their choice. if i saw a catotonic, one eyed, mite infested genetic stripe super phantom ghost pied double het caramel and albino up for sale for 500, i'd strongly consider buying it, if i didn't jump all over it. call it justification or whatever, i know i dont want any "extra" snakes in my collection, and i figured selling him was better than shelving him. rats aren't free last i checked
Click to expand...

You may not have spurred this thread but you are the exact reason I started it. One eyed animals, kinked animals, sever wobblers, etc.....should not be bred. You are the type in this to make a buck with no regards to the animal. How much is a rat? Give me a break. I have a 7 year old normal male here as a pet and he gets a rat every week. He will never be a money maker but he is a pet. Your attitude about these animals is what is wrong with this whole scenario.
 
... if you can not afford to properly feed the animal (regardless of what kind) then you should not own it. LET ALONE breed it.

example. .. if you can only afford enough rats to feed 4 snakes... only have 4 snakes.
 
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