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THE SNAKE PIT WAS BURGLARIZED *AGAIN* LAST NIGHT!!

I know that if Neil whats to talk about all this in a court room that will work for me.If Neil wants a line of people telling Judge and jury that Neil is a liar and how Neil quoted them as saying something that was never said.Can you say "counter suit ?"Neil was the one that said in numerous e-mails and phone conversations that I broke into his Dad's store (some of you all were people that got these e-mails ) Neil has to prove that he DID NOT ROB THE STORE.Besides Neil has to deal with a upset Detective before he goes any further they do not like being used in a lie.
 
I am neither defending nor condemning Neil. However....

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Neil has to prove that he DID NOT ROB THE STORE.</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>

Dave, that is a crock of sh!t and you know it (pardon me for my lapse of tact and candor). In any state, in any courtroom (civil or criminal), the burden of proof rests squarely on the accuser and/or prosecutor. And as one of Neil's accusors, you are failing miserably to provide any credible proof/evidence of any guilt on Neils' part. Regarding the burglary of his store. At best, you are casting suspicions. Circumstantial hearsay that will carry no weight in any litigation. What you are succeeding in doing is solidifying my suspicions that you have a grudge against Neil. That you have your own agenda here. Myself, I see a big conflict of interest here. You have stated that at one time you are/were a friend of Neils. That at one time you have done or are doing business with Neil. And at one point your reputation and your integrity were and are in question here on the BOI. In a court of law, you will have little credibility.

With that said, let me clarify a little. Dave, I have NOTHING against you. I am NOT attacking you. When you started this, by your post two days ago, you opened a hell of a can of worms. After each post you write, you are sounding more and more spiteful and vengeful. You have made serious accusations here. My point is this: you need factual evidence/documention to back up your claims. Alot of people here are following this closely. Very closely. Ok- you claim to be a part of the reptile community. You are making claims against another member. We are your peers. We are the ones you are pleading your case to. You keep talking of truth. For something to be true, there needs to be something solid to make it true. So far, your words are hollow. Back them up. Post your proof or let it ride. As far as this thread goes. Outside the BOI, proceed how you feel is necessary. I will admit it. I am anxiously awaiting the P.I.'s report. If you are unwilling to post your proof here, let it go. Drop the subject. Thank you for allowing me the opportunity to debate with you Dave. No offense intended. If Neil is innocent, you have lost ALL credibility with me. If he is guilty, then he deserves to be outed and punished. In a nutshell- this has gone on way too long now. Gone way too far. Either post your proof or end it until the truth finally comes out. Take care and have a nice day. I look forward to your response.
 
Detective Dave---  
   In regards to this statement you made in your last post---

"Neil has to prove that he DID NOT ROB THE STORE."


 What ever happened to innocent until PROVEN GUILTY??  I don't know which country you're from, but in this great country which you live in now.this is the way it's done.  I am not calling you a liar, but the allegations you have set forth here (  which I might add are very serious and very damaging  )will and do require proof if you want any of to be beleived by those who read it.  Quit saying what you say unless you can add some information/witnesses to prove your statements.  
  I am just voicing my opinion, which is also probably spoken by many others as well.

 Bob
 
ya know...I wasn't planning on going to Daytona this year (being on the other side of the country + crunch time at work)...but the little snake on my shoulder is whispering to me that the sh!t's gonna hit the fan, and it will be nothing but entertainment for people like me who are not directly involved at that show.

Personally I'd like to be able to side with Neil, as he strikes me as a nice guy. I have never bought anything from him, but would I consider it? Yes.

Now as to Dave Lawson...I don't care if he had what I would consider as the Hope Diamond for my collection (if I could afford it)...I wouldn't buy a damn thing from him. Why? Simply because of the way he presents himself. I have never spoken to him over the phone, never considered buying anything from him...now I never will. Even if he is right.

No matter which way the wall falls in all of this, someone's reputation is going to go down the drain. I hope everyone has watched this enough to realize that the way one handles ones self online is all a lot of us ever see. Sure, we handle a lot over the phone in addition, but this is WHAT THE POTENTIAL CUSTOMER SEES FIRST.

*stepping off desk*
 
Neil, this is Ray, Ray's Reptiles in Tampa. You know, the wholesaler that gets you chondros at a great price! First, Neil, listen when spoken to. I said to you, and you made me repeat it for Angie to hear, that I HAD heard a RUMOR. I had heard from someone else, not Dave, that Lawson had said that you paid him to break into your store. Now, I don't know if they were talking about the first, second, third or fourth break in. But as it was hear say, I took it as that: a RUMOR. And I told you to get in touch with Dave and work this out as it was not going to be good for you, your business, Dave, or the herp industry. Then all of a sudden, I'm dragged into this. I'm just getting started with my business, that's why I asked you to keep it between us.  I don't have time for this as I have a lot of animals to take care of. I wish I had the time you guys seem to have to sit at the computer all day to keep up with the local gossip, but I have cages to clean, animals to feed, etc.  By the way Neil, how did your dad get my number to call me today? I had no problems talking to him, but I just didn't know why he would want to talk to me.  He's a nice guy, and from what I gather from him, he's keeping tabs on this thread. We had a very interesting talk. Now I think I know a little more than most of the others involved in this soap opera. Let the law settle this, you guys aren't going to accomplish anything from this bad mouthing on an open, public forum. Just business suicide? If I can help you with anything, let me know. Good night. And good bye from this thread.

Ray Marteliz
 
I can't believe what some of you are suggesting. In the last few pages, at least two people have asked the Webslave to shut this topic down. Are you for real? It is the bad guys that always try to shut you up. Remember Taron Langover?

Second, where has Josie disappeared to? It seems to me that she has a vested interest in this thread. She comes on to suggest that Neil has sent her death threats. Then, she doesn't come back. I dont buy it. If he did do it, then she should still have them. So, why not post them here? And Josie, dont come on and say that you have deleted them, or give us some other lame excuse. I know that if someone sent a threat to me, I would definitely not only keep it, but also show it to anyone who would listen.

Also, let's keep in mind that we have already caught Neil lying to both us and the police. Remember the last break-in? He came up with a list of pricey snakes that were stolen. Then, when Julie told us that one of them was not missing, and had in fact died, he came on to say something about being 'confused.'  I dont buy that either.

Gino (Beniquez) From Da Bronx
 
Hey Ritchie, pass that soap.  <img src="http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wow.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':0'>
 
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">If Neil wants a line of people telling Judge and jury that Neil is a liar and how Neil quoted them as saying something that was never said.</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
I have never met anyone on this board in person, but I am entitled to say my peace.  Dave, are you saying that you have never told a lie?  I suspect we all have at some time in our lives.  Proving that Neil is a liar is stretching it for proof.
 I'd be screwed if that was me in court.  "Gee judge, yeah, I stole a stick of Hubba Bubba bubblegum when I was 5 then lied about it. "  Yes, that's right....little ol me stole gum when I was a child.
 Remember, innocent until proven guilty.  Why this needs to be constantly reminded is beyond me.  Lets not pass judgement. It is not our place.
 Neil, I hope this is settled quickly and fairly.  Burglary is unpleasant and just plain sucks.  I wish everyone on here the best in their endeavors.
Sue Henson
 
Gino....I really DID get confused when I put down that the Motley(ISH) Boa was stolen instead of dead....Heck, man...I bought that snake from Ben Siegel for $125 at the Tampa show!!! Now, Gino ....If I was going to do something like try to FOOL the insurance company (remember, I DIDN'T HAVE insurance&#33<img src="http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=';)'>, don't you think I would have put down a MUCH MORE EXPENSIVE snake??? Think about it??

Folks....It's really OK....let Dave and Julie say whatever they want, ANY WAY the want....they're doing FINE!!

Ray (Jenny) ....thanks for coming on here and AT LEAST showing people that I don't just make things up! I might have misunderstood you about WHO said it....but, IT WAS SAID!! (Gee Dave, I guess Ray's on MY side, huh??) I really didn't want your name brought up, Ray...but, I sent Rich a private email about it and (WITH my permission, even though I forgot I sent him that email), he posted it before I had a chance to ask him to delete your name (like he did with my father's phone number)! Sorry about that!

For the rest of you....Stay Tuned....IT'S MY TURN NOW!!! ....Neil
 
Ray,I wil start by saying  thank you for telling the truth and leting everyone know that it was a rumor.
To all,One of the thing I was trying to point out to you was that Neil is a bald Face liar.He is so hard up to try to prove he is innocent of all wrong doings that he has to "lie",Ray said this,Angie said that,the Detective said this other thing,this snake was stolen,the ball pythons are c.b..He lied to everyone and he keeps lying and when he gets caught its oh I was confused,I forgot,I misunderstood.
I want  you all to ask yourselves this.How the robbers get into the building?Go back to the last thread about his last robbery,you will see that he posted that he spent thousands and thousands on a state of the art alarm,cameras,lazors and motion detectors.I believe he said the only way a person could break in was to fly.There was only one person that knew the one and only weak point and that was Neil.A key was used to open one of theracks that snakes were taken from.Think about it  they took off not one but 2 sets of window bars that are built into the wall broke the window moved a 200 pound cage stole snakes that were in several different rooms (and managed to only get the sick ones) of the  store took the tapes and recorder with the alarm going off (inside and out side) and did all of this in less than 2 1/2 minutes, and the robbers took great care not to break a single tank and I understand that they even took the time and unscrewed the VCR hook up. I will tell you what I want you all to tell me how I can prove the things I say and I will try to do it so that you understand the Neil is A THIEF and a LIAR.The one person that I do feel sorry for is Jay Gubitz,The snake Pit is a place that could make great money if he had a honest person running it.I am looking over some photos I have because I may have one that shows the Ball Python with a sign saying C.B.
 
Dave. Maybe it would help us understand this situation a little more clearly if you would tell us why you are doing this. Apparently you were Neils good friend and now you are acting like the defender of justice. It seems very personal to me. Obviously there is alot that is not being told. It seems like, as a friend you should have stayed out of the fray, but instead you jumped in with seemingly no provocation. Can you explain it without implying that you are just interested in justice. Seems more like revenge. Casey
 
Fair enough question,I was going to stay clear of this whole mess (refer to my very first post on pg. 2 or 3).Then Neil started to call me telling me that he was going to put Law Suits against Thomas Crowley ,for investigating him Julie Moore (my girlfriend) for posting her opinion,Rich Z. for allowing her post to stay Me,for being her boyfriend James Thorton ,for calling his dad and anyone else that talks or post anything that he deems unfavorable.He went on to exspain that the people on this board look up to him and would believe whatever he said he went on to tell me "Dave,I talked some guy into paying me $1,300.00 for a normal chondro that I paid $200.00 for,I told him it was high blue what a jacka$$ I shipped it U.P.S. WEDS."He told me that people will lie for him and back him up.lET ME GIVE YOU THE SHORT LIST OF PEOPLE THAT HE PERSONALLY TOLD ME HE KNOWS HAD SOMETHING TO DO WITH HIS BREAK-INS ;Lyman,Jake,Tom,Rich (not rich z.)Julie,all the guys from the tattoo Parlor next to him,Some black guys and now me.So yes now I am upset.I think that it is time for everyone to see the true Neil Gubitz-A crook,liar and cheat.Neil has told you all sorts of B.S. AND YOU ALL HAVE CAUGHT HIM.But I still have yet to see him post the first report or case number so in the morning I am to meet with Det.Cole so while I'M in Tampa I will go get these numbers from public records.I know like Rich Z. does that the P.I. report said that Neil Gubitz did his own robbery.But in Neil's defence I will say that he was right about at least most of you believing what ever he says,Because if it were anyone else in his shoes right now you all would be looking for a short rope and a tall tree.
 
This thread (I think) has evolved far beyond a flame war which the rules of the board prohibit.

This is not the place for back and forth communication between basically just 2 people which this one has turned into. Let the evidence be presented in the proper place.

It seems to me that everything that has been presented to this point pretty much outlines the situation and until actual proof is presented to Rich concerning the progression and possible outcome, including the PI report, that it would be in everyones best interest to freeze this thread until actual, factual information can be presented to Rich and Rich present it to us.

As mentioned earlier. We are extremely lucky to have an individual like Rich to provide this service for us and under the circumstance surrounding this thread I feel that Rich has been more then fair in his dealings with everyone and is at this time doing everthing he can to get to the bottom of this.

We have many underlying things going on here and undefined motivations that have surfaced for whatever reason but we must also realize that this mode of communications is not entirely dependable and everyone reading this thread may never know the whole story behind it.

False lack of fear and false courage as provided by being able to sit behind a computer screen and type whatever you want (True or False) can many times present a very clouded picture to the reader who is in the process of forming an opinion.

All I can say is keep an open mind and try not to be caught up in a lynch mob mentality formed from one persons words and recent events. Sooner or later the truths will emerge and the untruths will be uncovered. Until that time everyone needs to step back and take a breath. It's too easy to lynch someone we don't know. Heck we do it in out kitchens everyday but it doesn't make it right. If all of us were ever brought to trial and convicted on out thoughts alone we all would end up with a life sentence or worse.
Just my Opinion.
Mel Wright
 
Neil,

A lot of us here have children. Sometimes they have an argument and when you ask who started it they will go “he called me names first, etc.”. We can’t determine who is lying to us, so the TV is turned off for both.

Neil you lied to us, and that hurts. We trusted you and you deceived us.

You know what? I don’t care what the authorities have to say. We all know what has happened in the past with “famous” trials, not enough proof, technicalities, circumstantial evidence, etc. If you are acquitted of all charges, the outcome is still the same, you lied to us.

With regards to the comments Dave L. made about the chondro thing, I don't know if they are true or not, it could very well be just another hear say. What I did not like about that transaction is that you sold an animal without letting it settle for sometime to make sure it was healthy before selling it (I did verify the dates you purchase it because you posted it in a thread here and the dates you sold him on kingsnake. And yes, I do have a life. But I like to make sure I have the right facts before posting).

Sometime ago I asked whose friend was James Thornton. The question remained unanswered. As Rich Z. States, no one was able to get in touch with him but nevertheless he was able to call your father (obviously we will never know the details of that conversation). Your father also called R. Marteliz (obviously we will never know the details of that conversation). Your father also called D. Lawson (obviously we will never know the details of that conversation). Your father also called Rich Z. (obviously we will never know the details of that conversation).

Is funny, your father has nothing to do with the store. Yet, he is in touch with each and every one of the people in your “circle of friends”. Talking about having a supportive parent!

Because of reasons we might never know your friends turned against you, but yes, they WERE your close friends. As close to even know how to get a hold of your relatives. Heck! I have a lot of VERY close friends that won’t even know how to get a hold of my parents

….“You will be judged by the companies you keep”…just think about that.

Once I told you I was a “potential customer” because I bought an animal from you. You laughed at me and said something like “you are already a customer ‘cause you already bought from me”. You can only label a person a customer when he comes back and buys from you for a second time, the first one was just a “sell”. Once this guy reads what was posted about the chondro, will he come back and buy a couple more? It was just a sell. By the way he posted a good guy thread on you...How do you feel about it?

I am not mad at you. It's your life and you can do as you please with it. I just feel betrayed.

I guess someone will go to bed without dessert.

Good Luck <img src="http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sad.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':('>
 
ok everyone let me just say this....first i will not post the email from neil because he sent it to a friend of both of ours his and mine and i wont put this person in the middle of this mess...but i do have a print out of the email where it was forwarded to me..even if i did post it you all would say i made it up so why bother.yall are gonna condem me no matter what on here...second i did not put neil down in my posts and only talked about the email to show that there is two sides to every story....as for being in daves gang sorry to disappoint yas but i have only met the man one time.....i have never even did business with him....look as i told neil i hope he finds out who is behind all these robberies...i am not involved with them in any way...i will be more than happy to take a lie detective test to prove to all that i am innocent...also just for you people who think i lied about the email well here is the police report number  #01-39271 and the if ya want i can give you the 2 officers names also they are from dist.2 tampa pd  please feel free to call the tpd and ask all the questions ya want....i have not been nasty with neil at all...so go ahead and judge me condemn me what ever .......... it dont matter to me anymore.....

josie arnold
 
Folks....the truth WILL eventually come out! Just let Dave talk! I'm LOVIN IT!!

For all the folks who are STILL with ME!....LOYALTY is worth it's weight in GOLD... you'll see!!

That's ALL I'm going to say! FOR NOW! Stay tuned!....Neil
 
From your last post:

"For all the folks who are STILL with ME!....LOYALTY is worth it's weight in GOLD... you'll see!!"


Is this your way in saying It pays to back a crook?

Lie for me and I will make it worth your while.

or are you trying to pay people off,like giving a person $450.00 to not talk bad about you or tell all your dirty secrets.

Thats right Neil you talk to people and they talk to me.I do have things to show and tell Det. Cole in the Morning.

See I do want everyone to understand I do have proof that Neil has been staging the last three robberies but I can not put it here until after I talk to the Det.I do not want to give Neil a chance to Remove the smoking gun.It will all be clear soon.
 
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Dave Lawson @ May 19 2002,10:55)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I know like Rich Z. does that the P.I. report said that Neil Gubitz did his own robbery.</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
Wow Dave, it must be really cool to be a psychic cause I thought that the PI wasn't telling anyone anything.  Can you tell me the winning lottery #'s too?
 
neil why all the emails all of a sudden?<img src="http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt='???'> here so all can see his email from today.Josie....First of all...I KNOW you had NOTHING to do with my burglaries!! You might have betrayed me (in MY eyes), but...I have NEVER thought you were dishonest....EVER!!
Just for the record....I know you might have an email from someone...But, I DID NOT SEND IT....and I did NOT forward it to anybody....if the cops do have the copy of that email (and Im sure they do)....it will be VERY EASY for them to figure out where it ORIGINATED from....you WILL find out, that it WASNT from ME!! I just wouldnt do that....believe it or not....

As far as Dave goes....I wouldnt worry about it....cause tomorrow, MY TURN STARTS!! Well SEE who has the LAST laugh!! ....Neil

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