THIS IS A QUESTION THAT HAS NEVER BEEN ASKED

[ShadowAceD]

Why not?

An animal that has to be on anti biotics, no matter if oral or injectable has a compromised immune system. The anti biotics themselves will compromise it more.

Breeding is stressful for a variety of factors on a snake. This, coupled with the anti biotics, could cause stress related illness in the animal.

That aside, an animal on anti biotics is likely on them due to a condition that should not have them exposed to another animal, especially if the swaping of bodily fluids is likely to occur between them.

It is simply a recipe for disaster.

 

[Willow]

Notice how the OP even says he is going to get hell for that question...wanna know why

cuz he knows the answer....he knows the difference between right and wrong

but...he came here....in hopes of finding someone who would defend, or advise....his stupid...STUPID question....

sadly....he seems to have found someone....

 

[RobNJ]

LOL, I guess I should be grateful that I deleted my second comment earlier. You guys might have had a heart attack.

That one was a doozy!

Anyway, what through me off from the start of this thread is that Collin proudly claims that he is checking on his collection hourly because he has the time to, yet doesn't have the time to find a herp vet he trusts(conclusion drawn from post #1). An RI doesn't pop up from nowhere and kill snakes so quickly, and someone keeping snakes for 2.5+ years(minimally) should know that...if not by experience, then by research. Sure, it could have been wrong dosage of antibiotics or a mix of being gravid, an RI and antibiotics.

If one can/should treat a gravid snake with antibiotics, especially when they are so close to laying, I guess it comes down to one's priorities. First step would be to talk it over with a vet you trust, or reach out to people well versed in herpetological medicines. Whether to treat or not, I guess some people would really think twice if they were sitting on a potential $10-20,000 clutch...but then again, by treating the snake and potentially losing the clutch, you still have next year and beyond.

 

[Focal]

Breeding a sick snake, Nick? Really? You think that's a good/smart question to ask?

Since when did common sense get tossed out?

Sure, lets ALL answer "YES! ITS A GREAT IDEA! WE ALL DO! IT! DDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD" And see where that puts us.

I can't believe you guys are going to these lengths Now I am saying it's a good idea? I think I'm saying something more along the line of quit being a and tell this guy why it's not good. Comments regarding the guys intelligence really paved the way for future people ... or does it hinder younger members from asking questions that may be "too stupid." Or better yet, will I get flamed by the guy with the highest karma on the website.

An animal that has to be on anti biotics, no matter if oral or injectable has a compromised immune system. The anti biotics themselves will compromise it more.

Breeding is stressful for a variety of factors on a snake. This, coupled with the anti biotics, could cause stress related illness in the animal.

That aside, an animal on anti biotics is likely on them due to a condition that should not have them exposed to another animal, especially if the swaping of bodily fluids is likely to occur between them.

It is simply a recipe for disaster.

If one can/should treat a gravid snake with antibiotics, especially when they are so close to laying, I guess it comes down to one's priorities. First step would be to talk it over with a vet you trust, or reach out to people well versed in herpetological medicines. Whether to treat or not, I guess some people would really think twice if they were sitting on a potential $10-20,000 clutch...but then again, by treating the snake and potentially losing the clutch, you still have next year and beyond.

Answers that make a difference.

 

[Dennis Hultman]

My apologies, Collin was correct. There is enough people out there that needs the answers to common sense questions. I restored my response since Willow is getting hammered for hers. I think it only fair.

 

[Willow]

As I said....I have no issue what so ever with the OP's first question....it is something that should be discussed

BUT....breeding a snake that is ALREADY sick, or in the process of recovering...SHOULD NOT even be discussed....it should not be done!

it should not be okay with anyone in this hobby, it should not be advised on other then to deter.

Would you give advice to someone asking the best way to beat their dog to death??

it's just another form of abuse on an innocent that cant fight for itself....A SICK SNAKE SHOULD NEVER BE BRED!! You risk it's already bad health, you risk it's very life!!

You also risk the snake you pair it with, and all the potential babies.

if you or the OP can't figure out why this is bad....you both have more issues then I care to even know about.

 

[deborahbroadus]

Ok, Nick, this is what I am seeing, and what I am seeing would be the reason for an insulting post, if I felt like responding to the OP.

Ok, now before anyone gets the wrong impression this question has absolutly nothing to do with my sick vanilla. She is not on antibiotics!

Last year I had a 5200 gram normal female that somehow out of nowhere contracted a respiratory infection while pregnant and days away from laying her eggs. I couldent find any information about what im fixing to ask and i dont trust the reptile vet in my area.

My response would have been..."REALLY??" Out of nowhere??? While pregnant??? Come on...R.I's don't come out of "nowhere" their reasons for developing are all over the Internet. This sentence really felt like an insult to my intelligence and the fact that he also has a sick Vanilla isn't giving me the "warm fuzzies."

-Can you put a pregnant snake on either injectable or oral antibiotics?

Why is this even a question? Of course if the R.I has advanced to the point that he indicated to have died shortly after discovery...something in the story is off, IMO.

-Can you breed a snake that is on injectable or oral antibiotics? "I know im gonna catch hell from this question".

Again...why would anyone that actually have their snakes health and well being even be interested in a possible "Yes" answer, common sense would lead to the obvious answer.

I have yet been able to find answer to these questions.

Here, he seems to be saying he lacks "Common Sense."

THE SNAKE DIED BEFORE SHE LAID HER EGGS

This is just ridiculous....I would need a verifiable time line, Pictures, vet visit records, something..that shows me he actually did try and save the snake, because the whole situation just smells.

Since I didn't feel like I could do justice to his questions and leave my feelings out, I didn't answer. But this is the INTERNET and Forums are particularly brutal when people ask the kind of questions that press emotional buttons.

 

[Willow]

lol I don't mind getting flamed...I tend to avoid most conversations like these....but the vibe most people seem to be getting from the OP is that he would have no issues what so ever breeding a sick snake

If I truly felt this question was just out of curiosity it most likely would not bother me so much....but for some reason...I don't think this question was asked out of innocent curiosity.

 

[Focal]

My apologies, Collin was correct. There is enough people out there that needs the answers to common sense questions. I restored my response since Willow is getting hammered for hers. I think it only fair.

I haven't seen it yet, but Willow was not the subject of what I spoke on and I apologize if it seems that was. In fact she had had the least role.

 

[Utta]

I can't believe you guys are going to these lengths Now I am saying it's a good idea?

Where did I claim you said it was a good idea?

Originally Posted by Utta View Post
Breeding a sick snake, Nick? Really? You think that's a good/smart question to ask?

 

[Willow]

Deborah explains it so much nicer then me haha...I guess I don't have the patience

 

[Willow]

Well, I guess you're right and they might really struggle with such a question. It was really wrong if me to have a little more faith that future enthusiasts would have some common sense. Let me quote your question I highlighted again.



Future readers, As you see above the question posted by Collin and the follow-up answer by him,
This is a serious matter that hasn't been answered and I'm going to my best to set your concerns aside.

"Could you breed a unhealthy sick snake?" Sure, you could but you shouldn't.

First, It is unwise to take a sick snake and house it (yes to breed it, you must put it in an enclosure with another) with another animal. Yes, this may sound silly but in this hobby the people have this crazy idea about quarantining sick and new animals to their collection. They expect for some reason that it would be basic knowledge for those breeding. Crazy ain't it?

Of course future breeders, I know what you are thinking. You might be able to bypass this criticism and still get a clutch or litter in this year by simply breeding a sick snake to another sick snake. That ought to do it. No need to watch the heath of the other snake if they are both sick.

Sorry Partner. No can do. This only leads to questions about the above quarantining, husbandry and can you believe it, concerns for the sick money making animal. Can you still believe that a majority of people think it is common sense not to put the strains of breeding on a sick animal?

If you are still with me on this best to not tell anyone that your animal is sick and breed the heck out of it in hopes it pays off this year. You know deep down you don't care enough or have the ability to keep it alive much longer anyway.


Oh Collin, you are so right. It was really stupid of me to assume someone would have the basic common sense that you shouldn't breed a sick snake or expose it to other snakes. OOPS.

I hope I helped.





Oh, Sorry. Let me try it again. NO..

Oh Dennis....Have I told you today that I love you?

 

[Willow]

lol and I'll publicly apologize for my horrible uses of........................

I don't even know when I'm doing it half the time haha

(I'm subconsciously trying to drive Diem crazy??)

 

[Focal]

Notice how the OP even says he is going to get hell for that question...wanna know why

cuz he knows the answer....he knows the difference between right and wrong

but...he came here....in hopes of finding someone who would defend, or advise....his stupid...STUPID question....

sadly....he seems to have found someone....

For the record, I am not defending his "stupid" question. A few people laid out great responses to the question that's been determined "stupid" by many. I am defending my position on how "respected" members of this community are not being helpful. Maybe I am reading the post wrong, but I had the feeling the whole time, that this was a lesson learned by the OP and he wanted some questions answers as to why for probably not only himself, but others that can end up in the same shoes. Is it smart? Is it "common sense?" That varies on the individual and I think the general census can agree everyone doesn't fall into one category.

There is a very good question left unanswered/discussed that would have made for a great thread and reading material, and that would be treating gravid females.

 

[RobNJ]

If I truly felt this question was just out of curiosity it most likely would not bother me so much....but for some reason...I don't think this question was asked out of innocent curiosity.

I'll buy into this...I can't help but shake the feeling that Collin's motives are geared more towards attention grabbing or stirring the pot. That being said, this is a discussion worthy topic that sure beats the heck out of the countless "You think something's going on with my normal..." threads. Not "can/should I breed sick snakes" discussion worthy, but rather what recourse there is if/when a gravid snake falls ill, aside from the obviousness of just treating it.

And I am with Nick 100% on potshots taken at grammar/spelling- not at all directed at you Willow, just quoted you for the beginning of this post. Not everyone is able to spell correctly or use proper grammar for a variety of reasons ranging from pure laziness to learning disabilities...it's something we should be able to, as adults, deal with maturely.

 

[radera5]

I'll buy into this...I can't help but shake the feeling that Collin's motives are geared more towards attention grabbing or stirring the pot. That being said, this is a discussion worthy topic that sure beats the heck out of the countless "You think something's going on with my normal..." threads. Not "can/should I breed sick snakes" discussion worthy, but rather what recourse there is if/when a gravid snake falls ill, aside from the obviousness of just treating it.

And I am with Nick 100% on potshots taken at grammar/spelling- not at all directed at you Willow, just quoted you for the beginning of this post. Not everyone is able to spell correctly or use proper grammar for a variety of reasons ranging from pure laziness to learning disabilities...it's something we should be able to, as adults, deal with maturely.

OH, how many times I have said that!
Good post

 

[Willow]

I do agree that comments about spelling or grammar are silly....I stated that from the beginning =) I even teased myself in this tread on my own internet chat issues teehee...and made no such comments to the OP about his own chat issues. Like i stated when it was first brought up....if someone's internet chatting is to horrid for me to handle, I just don't read it lol.

as I have said before...I do agree that talking about already gravid females getting sick should be discussed. As things like that CAN and DO happen.

But talking about an already sick animal being bred....I think that needs to be buried and forgotten and never thought of again lol

 

[radera5]

I do agree that comments about spelling or grammar are silly....I stated that from the beginning =) I even teased myself in this tread on my own internet chat issues teehee

as I have said before...I do agree that talking about already gravid females getting sick should be discussed. As things like that CAN and DO happen.

But talking about an already sick animal being bred....I think that needs to be buried and forgotten and never thought of again lol

 

[Lucille]

Nick, you are totally right that answers should be reviewed to make sure that the critter's well-being comes first and that includes getting the info to those who ask the questions. I think my vet response could have been worded better. I did think a new vet is needed, but your point that we should connect the dots better is well taken, I leave dots out from time to time.

 

[Willow]

Nick....all in all...I flipped...the OP's second question did not deserve anything other then "you know it's wrong, so don't do it"

His first question IS valid....I never said otherwise...I truly hope you do not believe breeding a sick snake needs to be discussed further then "don't fricken do it" and are simply playing devils advocate here.

His second question is stupid....there is no way around that....there is NOTHING smart about wanting other peoples opinions about breeding sick snakes....its a stupid thought, a stupid question, and a stupid practice that I KNOW people out there preform. I know people who have never even seen a snake in person who would know you don't try to breed one when its sick. They don't even need to ask, its simple common sense. It shouldn't have any need to be discussed. That would only encourage someone who thinks they know better, or thinks they can prove everyone wrong.

Some people did lay out great responses, but most where geared towards the OP's first question. Maybe a quick glaze over the second question with the same answer I gave, just said nicer hehe.