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Info Thomas Dorn - aeterrabyte

People,
The doctor said there is no point in testing for IBD and that the snake should just be sent back to the breeder. There was nothing I could have done to make the snake exhibit this condition in the time frame that I had it. We both think the snake is a goner since I don't think it can eat and drink in this condition. Very sad, but it happens.

Thanks for all your support, those of you who have been.

I did. they said it don't matter.

Much like everything else you've said, I'm calling :icon_bs: on all of the above. If that's an actual veterinarian's professional opinion, I should start eating Cracker Jack again. They must be giving out vet. degrees as the prize nowadays. It's an astounding coincidence that someone educated in the treatment of exotic pets could come to the same idiotic conclusion as someone whose sole diagnosis for everything is IBD.
 
$60 for a vet visit means they didnt do much if anything at all for the snake.

Most quality vets would of inspected that snake and you would of paid 3 times that amount and been given a definite conclusion.

Good luck on paypal as they wont side with out on this claim. 2 weeks after having said animal and not its dieing, they will just chalk it up and be done. And if you file claim with the CC company, paypal will go after you as well to recollect the funds if found to be fraudulent. Ive dealt with people like you who dont get their way, file charge backs with the CC or paypal and LOSE when the CC contacts me.
 
$60 for a vet visit means they didnt do much if anything at all for the snake.

Most quality vets would of inspected that snake and you would of paid 3 times that amount and been given a definite conclusion.

Good luck on paypal as they wont side with out on this claim. 2 weeks after having said animal and not its dieing, they will just chalk it up and be done. And if you file claim with the CC company, paypal will go after you as well to recollect the funds if found to be fraudulent. Ive dealt with people like you who dont get their way, file charge backs with the CC or paypal and LOSE when the CC contacts me.


Thanks, but It's not my way. It's what the vet said. This is why we need doctors to make the final decision.
 
As long as Rob can give paypal a tracking number that verifies the "goods" were received your SOL on a refund.
 
Thanks, but It's not my way. It's what the vet said. This is why we need doctors to make the final decision.

This quote is awesome! The vet didn't say anything. He ruled nothing out, and diagnosed nothing. Doctors don't make final decisions. Banks that issue credit cards do!
 
From a medical standpoint and a vet tech's point of view, there is no way you can get any complete diagnosis from a mere physical exam. Whether there were ribs jutting out or innards coming out it's toosh, or just a simple sneeze, they would have started making recommendations in order to get a more conclusive answer.
Did they recommend a fecal to check for parasites?
X-rays to check for bone deformaties or the possbility of spinal issues from restraint for tube-feeding water? Again, this is from my experience as a vet tech and fellow animal keeper. I am not judging, but you have to look at ALL angles when it comes to figuring out issues with a reptile as they are so low on the totem pole of physiological research as it presently stands, medically speaking. I really wish there was more, but there ARE plenty of tests that can, and should be done when you really want to rule out husbandry issues.

Fecal tests, blood work, and xrays are the minimum they should have offered to inquire about doing on the animal, to rule out issues. Otherwise, just stating "it's ill" without doing ANY testing, is a moot point and NOT a diagnosis, it's a simple guess at best.

Vets want to know the answer, they want to figure this out for the animal's benefit. What testing did they recommend?


Kindest regards,

Amanda Rose
 
I think you should.
If what Thomas says is true, I have to wonder what sort of tests were done to make this vet so sure.

I'm waiting until the vet's name is posted tomorrow, so the licensing board can talk directly to that vet.
 
Rob I would just take the snake back.. If it dies, many people saw his reactions and it'll kill business with him. As it is, that snake is gorgeous. If it makes it back to you in ok health, I'm sure you will have no issue selling her again. Don't forget to keep those shipping charges though. And maybe the price of the box?
 
Thanks, but It's not my way. It's what the vet said. This is why we need doctors to make the final decision.

Not a whole lot a vet. can diagnose at a glance. Since there were ostensibly no diagnostic tests run, I imagine that he'd have to rely heavily on whatever background information you provided. Not that you even have the minimal amount of credibility necessary to be able to trust that you took the correct snake in to the vet., however, if you did, I suspect that the conversation went something like this:

Thomas- "I got this snake shipped to me yesterday. It was 110 degrees inside the box. When I woke up today, it was acting weird. Is this my fault?"

Vet.- "No. Nothing you could have done in that short of time. Probably heat stroke."

I absolutely believe that you'd have no problem with falsifying events to try to remove your own degree of culpability. I think you came out swinging, with the IBD scare, hoping to blackmail the seller into silent compliance. Once it backfired on you, you were left scrambling to think up some valid reason why you weren't responsible for the snake's condition. Sadly, thinking doesn't seem to be your strong suit. Maybe you should have spent some more time on Google.
 
Any "exotics" veterinarian that has any reliable knowledge of boids who decides that testing for IBD is pointless, clearly has no clue as to what they are doing. Then again, a so called "exotic veterinarian" that does not even have an option to label the animal as a reptile rather than an avian (splitting hairs to some, but to me it is pretty telling) is not someone who should be looking at any reptilian.

Give the nature of most snakes, it would be incredibly difficult for any veterinarian, no matter how long they have been practicing, to diagnose most anything in a neurological sense on a reptile with just a simple examination. X-rays would be something to seem standard, as well as an attempt for a fecal and some basic testing to check the neurological competence of an animal. The only way they would just say "Nope, sorry, none of this matters, the snake is going to die" is if you refused any type of further treatment no matter how inexperienced the veterinarian is with reptiles, which I am sure you did, which is rather unfortunate.

When veterinarians are in school, there is very minimal training and teaching on exotics. It is up to the individual themselves to spend the extra time learning how to deal with these animals or just becoming specialists in one (in this veterinarian's instance, avians). Just because they can figure out what is going on with birds and just because they "bred ball pythons" means jack. Breeding ball pythons is not difficult and qualifies no one to be able to medically diagnose major issues with them.

The veterinarian you took this animal too clearly has no knowledge of IBD (not that the animal is likely to have it anyway) and clearly has no knowledge of Spider genetics and likely has not gotten the full story from you. I love how you keep saying this animal is going to die soon and its body condition is horrible when all I see is an overstressed Spider type animal constantly being messed with by an inexperienced keeper who made several major mistakes that likely attributed to her condition. The only way she will die is if you do not properly care for her which, at this point, appears to be the unfortunate fate of this animal.

Two years of keeping? People with 20+ years still learn new things about their animals. You know the bare basics and I mean the absolute bare basics for this animal and it is blatantly obvious in your postings, your handling of this situation and your constant abuse of this animal (messing with a super stressed, ailing animal constantly is abuse). You are clearly unaware of the fact that stress can and does kill these animals and the best thing to do when they are exhibiting problems is to get them properly treated and leave them alone in a quiet, temperature controlled, dark enclosure. It makes them feel secure and it helps in their recovery.

People can speculate on what happened to that animal until the cows come home, but a simple fact remains: the fault of her current condition is unknown because you are unwilling to find a veterinarian (or you simply refused treatment) who can properly observe, diagnose and aid this animal. If it was IBD, there is a good chance that snake would be dead already and her movements are really not indicative of it. Is it neurological beyond a genetically flawed animal just exhibiting the known flaws of his genetics? I do not know, neither do you or anyone else. What is known is that you have an animal that was eating, that is going into shed and that is displaying signs of a healthy snake beyond the weird quirks associated with its morph. Not to mention, you force fed it water. You can try and say you did not force it to take the water all you want, but it was against its will. It's not common to see these guys drink so for you to claim it will never drink is ridiculous. How do you know? As for it not eating? It just ate, it is a baby ball python and you are stressing the poor thing out beyond belief, of course she is not eating.

PayPal is not likely to side with you and I do not fault Rob for nulling out his ToS. Personally, I wish Rob would take the animal back just to get it out of your hands, but I understand why the situation has become what it is. You should really take this as a hard lesson learned, reevaluate your aspirations on this hobby and learn about the animals you are keeping better.

You also need to find a qualified veterinarian who can deal with snakes in your area.
 
Any "exotics" veterinarian that has any reliable knowledge of boids who decides that testing for IBD is pointless, clearly has no clue as to what they are doing. Then again, a so called "exotic veterinarian" that does not even have an option to label the animal as a reptile rather than an avian (splitting hairs to some, but to me it is pretty telling) is not someone who should be looking at any reptilian.

Give the nature of most snakes, it would be incredibly difficult for any veterinarian, no matter how long they have been practicing, to diagnose most anything in a neurological sense on a reptile with just a simple examination. X-rays would be something to seem standard, as well as an attempt for a fecal and some basic testing to check the neurological competence of an animal. The only way they would just say "Nope, sorry, none of this matters, the snake is going to die" is if you refused any type of further treatment no matter how inexperienced the veterinarian is with reptiles, which I am sure you did, which is rather unfortunate.

When veterinarians are in school, there is very minimal training and teaching on exotics. It is up to the individual themselves to spend the extra time learning how to deal with these animals or just becoming specialists in one (in this veterinarian's instance, avians). Just because they can figure out what is going on with birds and just because they "bred ball pythons" means jack. Breeding ball pythons is not difficult and qualifies no one to be able to medically diagnose major issues with them.

The veterinarian you took this animal too clearly has no knowledge of IBD (not that the animal is likely to have it anyway) and clearly has no knowledge of Spider genetics and likely has not gotten the full story from you. I love how you keep saying this animal is going to die soon and its body condition is horrible when all I see is an overstressed Spider type animal constantly being messed with by an inexperienced keeper who made several major mistakes that likely attributed to her condition. The only way she will die is if you do not properly care for her which, at this point, appears to be the unfortunate fate of this animal.

Two years of keeping? People with 20+ years still learn new things about their animals. You know the bare basics and I mean the absolute bare basics for this animal and it is blatantly obvious in your postings, your handling of this situation and your constant abuse of this animal (messing with a super stressed, ailing animal constantly is abuse). You are clearly unaware of the fact that stress can and does kill these animals and the best thing to do when they are exhibiting problems is to get them properly treated and leave them alone in a quiet, temperature controlled, dark enclosure. It makes them feel secure and it helps in their recovery.

People can speculate on what happened to that animal until the cows come home, but a simple fact remains: the fault of her current condition is unknown because you are unwilling to find a veterinarian (or you simply refused treatment) who can properly observe, diagnose and aid this animal. If it was IBD, there is a good chance that snake would be dead already and her movements are really not indicative of it. Is it neurological beyond a genetically flawed animal just exhibiting the known flaws of his genetics? I do not know, neither do you or anyone else. What is known is that you have an animal that was eating, that is going into shed and that is displaying signs of a healthy snake beyond the weird quirks associated with its morph. Not to mention, you force fed it water. You can try and say you did not force it to take the water all you want, but it was against its will. It's not common to see these guys drink so for you to claim it will never drink is ridiculous. How do you know? As for it not eating? It just ate, it is a baby ball python and you are stressing the poor thing out beyond belief, of course she is not eating.

PayPal is not likely to side with you and I do not fault Rob for nulling out his ToS. Personally, I wish Rob would take the animal back just to get it out of your hands, but I understand why the situation has become what it is. You should really take this as a hard lesson learned, reevaluate your aspirations on this hobby and learn about the animals you are keeping better.

You also need to find a qualified veterinarian who can deal with snakes in your area.


This, all of this.
 
There was nothing I could have done to make the snake exhibit this condition in the time frame that I had it. We both think the snake is a goner since I don't think it can eat and drink in this condition. Very sad, but it happens.

1. Exhibit what condition?
2. The snake was NOT exibiting any condition as of Saturday 12/22 when you fed it a F/T mouse (from tongs?).
3. On Sunday 12/23 you force fed it, although it ate the day before. That's when you first noticed 'the condition'.

The only reason I have brought this here, Thomas, is that you have repeatedly accused me of having sickness in my collection. I do not. Something went wrong between Saturday and Sunday, and it's not my fault.
 
1. Exhibit what condition?
2. The snake was NOT exibiting any condition as of Saturday 12/22 when you fed it a F/T mouse (from tongs?).
3. On Sunday 12/23 you force fed it, although it ate the day before. That's when you first noticed 'the condition'.

The only reason I have brought this here, Thomas, is that you have repeatedly accused me of having sickness in my collection. I do not. Something went wrong between Saturday and Sunday, and it's not my fault.

Listen man. Your just making this worse for everyone. Everyone on line is all upset and so am I. I just want my money back, and I want you to take back the snake. I don't mean to bad guy you. I feel bad about that. I will write that you made good. I took the snake to the vet. :crying:
 
If the vet thinks she's healthy enough to ship, I'd glandly refund your purchase upon return of the snake. Of course, since you are dissatisfied with a healthy snake, I'd like for you to pay shipping.

Then there's all the accusations you've made...
 
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