Todd Smith (Deal Gone South)

[Greg Riso]

Okay, up until this point I had twice requested in writing that Todd provide documentation on these two animals. What was sent to me on 3/21 two days after the animals arrived was the following:

Subj: Re: Animals Received
Date: 3/21/2003 2:54:24 PM Eastern Standard Time
From: [email protected]
To: [email protected]
CC: [email protected]
Sent from the Internet (Details)




Greg,

For your records...This is to confirm that the '01 anerythristic female (captive-produced by Boa Republic) and the '01 hypo (het for anerythrism) captive-produced by Jeremy Stone pictured below were sent to you on 3/18/03. If there are any questions, please feel free to e-mail or call.

Thanks,

~Todd
707-576-3927


'01 Hypo (het anery) Male (CB Jeremy Stone)


'01 Anerythristic Female (CB Boa Republic)
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

When I opened up the above letter there was only one picture of the anery embedded above it's description. Unfortunately, the one picture that did come through does not copy and paste here along with the print. There was no picture present whatsoever of the het animal I was more concerned about. I made mention of this to Todd in the following response.

Subj: Re: Animals Received
Date: 3/25/2003 9:15:54 AM Eastern Standard Time
From: MATRIXNINJA70
To: [email protected]


Todd,

I was out of town and unable to respond until now. The pic of the hypo het for anery doesn't show in your e-mail even though when I open it there's a description there and an indication that there are two images loading yet only the anery shows.
I'm very concerned about the hypo being so thin for his length. Especially since I've tried feeding him twice now and he's not been interested in anything. The day after he arrived I placed a f/t medium rat in with him and he wouldn't touch it. The anery was right on the same type food item. I decided to let him wait until I returned late last night and again offered him food and he didn't show any interest then either. When I received this pair I commented that both animals looked good. By this I was referring to their condition after shipping. I saw the male as looking pretty lean and didn't think much of it. Now after seeing his lack of interest in feeding I'm much more concerned if this animal has been a problem feeder for a while or has stopped feeding altogether as he's much thinner than any boa I've ever had for this length.
If I can't get this guy to feed soon I'd like to send him back to you. I feel he's had ample time to settle in and his husbandry conditions are optimal and all of my other 30+ boas are all feeding fine. Both he and the anery have been quarantined from my other animals and from each other so you need not be concerned about them being contaminated. I'll try again today to offer him another rat as maybe he's a daytime feeder and just to give him another chance.

Greg
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

It was apparent from the hypo's appearance this animal was nothing like the healthy feeding animal that was represented to me prior to purchase. Todd's idea of documentation was also totally unacceptable to me, however, I was much more concerned at this point with the animal's health then documentation so I focused more on that. After all, the best documentation in the world didn't mean squat to me if this animal was not right.
Todd and I went back and forth with several letters and I made Todd aware that his handling of the situation was not adequate.
I told Todd that I wished to work this out in a professional manner, and that NO ONE would have to know about this if he would give me a refund for the hypo het anery. He issued me the ultimatum previously posted here of his getting the animal feeding again or giving me a partial refund of $750 if I sent it back to him. I did not feel this to be fair since I had done nothing wrong to merit losing $250 so as a result this thread came into existence.

 

[Greg Riso]

So Where Are We Now?

So far there are 17 pages of information here that would not exist if Todd had handled this situation better. Today marks the one month anniversary of my receiving his animals. The hypo still will not eat f/t anything and only recently deficated the live mice I fed him. Prior to this there was nothing excreted which tells me he'd been running on empty for some time.
In the past week Todd sent an email to which I responded. I didn't recognize the e-mail address so it was almost deleted as it was suspect and had an attachment.
Here's his first letter.


Subj: Fw: Animals Received
Date: 4/13/2003 9:28:38 AM Eastern Standard Time
From: "Karri Smith" <[email protected]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent from the Internet (Details)


Greg,

I've heard "accusations that I didn't send you a "confirmation of bloodline" for the pair of animals you purchased. You are authorized to post THIS COMPLETE message WITH the "dated statement AND accompanying photographs" on BOI.

~Todd

----- Original Message -----
From: Todd Smith
To: [email protected]
Cc: Karri and Todd Smith
Sent: Friday, March 21, 2003 12:53 PM
Subject: Re: Animals Received


Greg,

For your records...This is to confirm that the '01 anerythristic female (captive-produced by Boa Republic) and the '01 hypo (het for anerythrism) captive-produced by Jeremy Stone pictured below were sent to you on 3/18/03. If there are any questions, please feel free to e-mail or call.

Thanks,

~Todd
707-576-3927


'01 Hypo (het anery) Male (CB Jeremy Stone)


'01 Anerythristic Female (CB Boa Republic)
----- Original Message -----
From: [email protected]
To: [email protected]
Sent: Wednesday, March 19, 2003 8:37 AM
Subject: Animals Received


Todd,

Both animals arrived fine about 15 minutes ago and look very nice. You mentioned the male's from Jermemy Stone and the female's from Boa Replublic, right? I will need some type of paperwork to verify the hypo as being DH ghost and proof of their source for my records. Could you either send me this thru the mail or scan and attach to an e-mail please? In case I decide to sell them at a future date I will need this documentation. Thank you very much.

Greg


------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Did you notice how Todd emphasized I was "authorized to post THIS COMPLETE message WITH the "dated statement AND accompanying photographs" on BOI."?

The reason for this was because of my statement "Both animals arrived fine about 15 minutes ago and look very nice."
I think that's what all of Brian's Chesire cat self back patting was all about. I believe he and Todd thought that I would never post this after having complained throughout this thread about the animal's condition. After my failure to post they'd then deliver the one two punch sought to speak.
I've already explained there was quite a lot of excitement, commotion, and confusion going on when my wife and I opened up the package. My e-mail response was literally minutes after their arrival. While I was writing it I was not aware of any problems or of course I would have mentioned them at that time. In referring to the animals as "looking very nice" I was talking about their overall general appearance. Let me put this in terms even Brian can understand. It's like looking at a used car in a parking lot and saying it looks good to the salesman. He's ready to sell you the car but you open up the hood and there's no engine. After you look at the entire picture it's not quite what you bargained for is it?

I responded to Todd's letter with the following statement.


Subj: Fwd: Fw: Animals Received
Date: 4/13/2003 10:46:32 PM Eastern Standard Time
From: MATRIXNINJA70
To: [email protected]


In a message dated 4/13/2003 10:29:05 AM Eastern Daylight Time, [email protected] writes:


[email protected]


Todd,

As happened the last time the picture of the DH Ghost did not come out. When I open the letter there is only one picture of the anery showing. I am forwarding your letter back to you to see if you can see both pictures. At any rate when I requested documentation I thought it was clearly understood you would provide me with authentic certification from the original sources such as receipts, certificates, etc. for each animal, not your own generated certificate.
I have been able to identify the source of the anery because there is a picture of it at BoaRepublic's website that is a dead match so there is no concern there.
The hypo het anery is another story, however. I wrote Jeremy Stone and included a copy of the picture you posted with your Kingsnake ad stating that the pictured animal was supposedly a hypo het anery produced by him. I requested his assistance in helping me identify it and if he could recognize it as having come from him. He stated he could not do this so obviously he couldn't certify it either. He also said that he provides this documentation with every het he produces. This is the type of certification I need. Jeremy also stated he has never sold an animal directly to you. So I ask, how can you be certain of this animal's het status and source as having been produced by Jeremy Stone if you've never seen the original documentation from Jeremy? Did you simply accept someone elses certification and now I'm supposed to accept yours? I do not feel this is acceptable proof of genetics or origin and is the main reason I would like a refund on the hypo.

Greg
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Subj: Fw: Animals Received
Date: Sun, 13 Apr 2003 07:28:38 -0700
From: "Karri Smith" <[email protected]>
To: <[email protected]>

Greg,

I've heard "accusations that I didn't send you a "confirmation of bloodline" for the pair of animals you purchased. You are authorized to post THIS COMPLETE message WITH the "dated statement AND accompanying photographs" on BOI.

~Todd

----- Original Message -----
From: Todd Smith
To: [email protected]
Cc: Karri and Todd Smith
Sent: Friday, March 21, 2003 12:53 PM
Subject: Re: Animals Received


Greg,

For your records...This is to confirm that the '01 anerythristic female (captive-produced by Boa Republic) and the '01 hypo (het for anerythrism) captive-produced by Jeremy Stone pictured below were sent to you on 3/18/03. If there are any questions, please feel free to e-mail or call.

Thanks,

~Todd
707-576-3927


'01 Hypo (het anery) Male (CB Jeremy Stone)


'01 Anerythristic Female (CB Boa Republic)
----- Original Message -----
From: [email protected]
To: [email protected]
Sent: Wednesday, March 19, 2003 8:37 AM
Subject: Animals Received


Todd,

Both animals arrived fine about 15 minutes ago and look very nice. You mentioned the male's from Jermemy Stone and the female's from Boa Replublic, right? I will need some type of paperwork to verify the hypo as being DH ghost and proof of their source for my records. Could you either send me this thru the mail or scan and attach to an e-mail please? In case I decide to sell them at a future date I will need this documentation. Thank you very much.

Greg

 

[Greg Riso]

The Clincher

Now to top it all off this is Todd's last letter to me and my commentary at the end.


Subj: Re: Re:Re: Hypo
Date: 4/15/2003 11:02:00 PM Eastern Standard Time
From: "Todd Smith" <[email protected]>
To: <[email protected]>
Cc: "Jeremy Stone" <[email protected]>
Reply-To: "Todd Smith" <[email protected]>
Sent from the Internet (Details)


Greg,

This should resolve any questions you still have on it's origin. I've "cc'd" Jeremy to "refresh" his memory as well!

I also would like you to tell me how you "cured" the IBD (AND in three weeks as I've "heard" that the male is already feeding on live mice) since I have TWO vets that are interested in providing this information to their clients.

~Todd

Here is the photo AGAIN for your records.


----- Original Message -----
From: Jeremy Stone
To: Todd Smith
Sent: Sunday, August 25, 2002 11:52 AM
Subject: Re: Re:Re: Hypo


That looks to be the male I sold him. HOpe this helps, Jeremy
----- Original Message -----
From: Todd Smith
To: [email protected]
Sent: Sunday, August 25, 2002 12:51 PM
Subject: Fw: Re:Re: Hypo


Jeremy,

Here are two photos for you to view. I was under the impression Wyatt sent you these at the same time he sent them to me. Anyway, if you could confirm that this is the 2000 male (het for anery) that you sold to Eric Trager, I would appreciate it.

Thanks for your time,

~Todd


----- Original Message -----
From: Damion M Wyatt
To: [email protected]
Sent: Friday, August 23, 2002 2:11 PM
Subject: Re: Re:Re: Hypo




On Fri, 23 Aug 2002 17:38:54 -0700 Todd Smith <[email protected]> writes:
Wyatt,

I haven't received the photo which is making it impossible for me to have Jeremy verify the bloodline of the animal. I think at this time, I would like to just cancel the transaction and have you refund my $250. If you would mail it out to me and confirm when it is sent, I would appreciate it. I'm sure with all the responses you received, you shouldn't have any trouble in selling him.

Thanks,

~Todd
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Okay, now I've got it. It's all very clear to me now. Todd tried to get verification from Wyatt about the hypo and was concerned because Jeremy could "NOT VERIFY THE BLOODLINE".
In fact at one point in the paragraph above Todd even said,

"I would like to just cancel the transaction and have you refund my $250."

I don't understand why Todd doesn't view my situation in the same light? It seems to me that what's good for him should be good for me. The above letter does little to prove anything. All I know is there was a picture of an animal sent to Jeremy for his review and Jeremy stated, "That looks to be the male I sold him."
"Looks to be" is not the same thing as it IS the animal I sold him. Besides, even if Jeremy did positively ID that animal, how do I know the picture he was sent has anything to do with the animal I received? Is this the only hypo het anery male in the world? The animal Todd posted at Kingsnake was advertised as a 2,000. The "certificates of authenticity" he sent me (and I was supposed to be satisfied with) all said it was a 2,001. Now his letter to Jeremy refers to it as being a 2,000 again. Is there any wonder why I'm skeptical?
I'm sorry but IMHO the above letter does little to verify the genetics of the hypo I received. I'd have a hard time trying to sell this animal to someone based on the above letter. Judging by the $250 price Todd paid for it (maybe he got it even cheaper since it had no paperwork) it's easy to understand why he doesn't want to return my money. This whole thing is strictly about money. He knows there's no way anyone would ever pay $1,000 for a hypo het anery with no paperwork, especially in light of this thread so I'm the sucker who gets left holding the bag.
It seems to me he hasn't learned a thing from this experience either. Kim felts said in an earlier post that after she inquired about a Rick Staub hypo Todd had posted she bacame aware that the animal was used as a breeder. For this reason she declined buying the animal. Gee, if I had been told that my hypo was used in a similar fashion do you think that fact may have influenced my decision of whether or not to purchase?

Currently Todd Smith has an ad posted for the same animal.

http://market.kingsnake.com/detail.php?cat=8&de=70495

In it he states, "He was cycled for the first time this year and is an excellent breeder!" No mention of the animal being warn out from having bred all season though is there? I wonder how old the pic is? Looks to me like Deja Vu all over again folks! Will the next sucker please step up?

 

[Greg Riso]

That's All Folks!

I'm all done for now. Thank you for your patience.

 

[Gary Walsch]

Well done ...................


I really like the part in Todd's terms where he guarantees live arrival AS LONG AS ...... The animal is delivered on time
And depending on weather conditions in your area.


Well you either guarantee live arrival or you don't. Also how can you say depending on the weather conditions where you are at ? If the weather is bad enough to possibly kill or injur the animal shouldn't the correct behavior be to not ship until it was safe for the animal to insure its safety ? I could really go on but this is what bothered me most about what Greg posted today, aside from everything discussed prior of course

 

[kim felts]

in todds note it says the 2000 male het for anery..no mention of the male being a hypo..

dont you think he might have mentioned hypo het for anery in the description?

humm..

 

[kim felts]

btw that description was used aug 25 by todd to jeremy stone.

the 2000 male het for anery..

no wordage about being a hypo...he must have forgotten that important part huh?? seems kind of strange considering he was hoping to jog jeremys memory for documentation on the snake.


yea right.

 

[KelliH]

Good eye, Kim!

Well maybe Wyatt will reply tho the thread and at least verify whether the animal was hypomelanistic or not. I hardly think Wyatt would sell a male hypo het anerythristic for $250 although I guess it is possible there was some trading going on along with the money. *sigh* this busines....

 

[Darin Chappell]

I guess Todd's responses settle the whole "has fed" vs. "is feeding" controversy! Todd clearly said the animal was then "feeding" (implying present tense), and that is ANOTHER reason he now owes Greg a full and complete refund!

Well done, Greg.

 

[MSL]

Now?

Darin wrote:

How long before Todd officially gets labeled a "Bad Guy" since he is completely unwilling to dicuss the realities of this deal?

Ok so Todd was made aware of this thread by Brian. Still refuses to make things right. Still hasn't posted his take on what happened. Now is EVERYONE agreed Todd Smith - BAD GUY?

Meryl Lechner

 

[Seamus Haley]

Still hasn't posted his take on what happened. Now is EVERYONE agreed Todd Smith - BAD GUY?

Guy to be very wary of to be certain...

But as you said, he hasn't posted anything to confirm or deny any of what Greg has said.

While I personally believe at this point that Greg is telling the truth... copied and pasted emails can be edited and even headers can be forged (Although don't ask me how) on emails that are forwarded.

It seems very unlikely at this point, but Todd could theoretically show up later today with his own set of emails that contradict everything Greg has said.

Fact is... until such a point as Todd posts someplace or speaks someplace where we can all see it/hear it and judge it on it's own merits, there exists an element of doubt which prevents the full label of "Bad guy."

He really should either post here and explain himself or issue a refund for misrepresentation... on the health/feeding issue however...

He only guaranteed live arrival. Crappy terms? Yes. Did Greg agree to them and verify that the animals arrived alive? Also yes. After that point any health issues became a moot point because the guarantee was specifically stated and did not include anything past verification of arrival while breathing.

The genetics would be another matter entirely if it could be proven that the animal was NOT what it was represented to be... at the moment it can't be proven that it IS what it was represented to be but that isn't an automatic that it isn't... Further, a receipt from a breeder that verifies genetics is really just a statement from that individual that informs the customer of the lineage for their purchase... we trust the breeder because the breeder would know the genetics better than a purchaser further down the line in most instances and we trust people who have decent reputations. All Todd has done to verify the genetics is give a statement in writing that the genetics for the animal purchased are as represented. Is he lying? Maybe... but proving it is the hard part.

There have been a lot of people who are full out "Bad Guys" con artists, liars, people mailing phone books and stealing cash...

There are others who were a bit sneakier or dishonest in a less blatant fashion who certainly should be put into a catagory where care should be taken when dealing with them and any risk should be avoided at all cost but...

It sounds like Todd had a fairly good reputation before this incident. Sounds like, mind you I had personally never even heard of him so I might be way off... and where there exists a certain level of doubt about the misrepresentation and the health and feeding issue was turned into a nonissue by the guarantee that Greg agreed to before the purchase, I'm not certain he's a full out bad guy... Yet. Prove he was misrepresenting genetics and KNEW he was misrepresenting genetics and he's a bad guy.

As to his not posting... it's his choice. We all choose to participate or not participate here or any other website based on personal preferences and biases and opinions and whatever else might be going on. Time constraints aren't the only issue. I never post at KS anymore because I refuse to utilize the forums over there for any reason, ever. Even if there was a BOI type forum and someone was trashing me, I would not post there to deffend myself because of the base site. That's not automatically the case here with Todd, but he could have any reason or no reason... maybe he just didn't feel like it. The point being... Not posting does not create more evidence against him, it just fails to provide any evidence FOR him. It's a neutral action (inaction) not a negative one and nobody can be condemned because they decided not to post.

 

[kim felts]

my vote...not someone i want to do business with..ee gads no.
regardless of the yada yada..the email retracting the offer to settle at 750.00..amazing how he made sure to keep his 250 investment for himself there..anyhow..that alone was enough to send me packing. heavy handed approach and power trip central.
the only reason i could ever see myself acting in such a way is if i thought the buyer was abusing the snake- not caring for it needs or whatever......not so in this situation so..gag..no todd smith for me..

 

[Gary Walsch]

Hey Seamus,


Your kidding right ? By Todd not posting ( and your point in reference to kinsnake.com forums is well taken by the way ) you are saying that it is an inaction and not negative and he can't be labeled as bad guy because of that ........ In the american legal system if you are accused of a crime you have the option of taking the 5th , However if you choose to take that defense it does not mean that you can;t be proven guilty and labeled a " BAD GUY " . I think that other than having a dozen eye witnesses to any situation there is no 110% proof that it sounds like you are looking for, But I think that there has been enough evidence put forward here to where if Gregg does'nt come back and post " Hey guess what ? Todd gave me a full refund guys " then Todd is labeled as a " BAD GUY " PERIOD. There has been a large amount of people view this thread and if they post or not I would bet good money on the assumption that the overwhelming majority believe Todd to be a " BAD GUY "> I also dont think people will change that view until Gregg comes back with that post telling everyone about his 100% refund including shipping ( in my opinion ). And all these people who have viewed this thread being potential customers I would also bet that is feeling really lucky he has that United States Super Spy job. Hopefully he is a better secret agaent than a breeder because I heard that Boris and Nastasha are holding Moose and Squirrel for ransom and someone has to save them.

 

[Seamus Haley]

Your kidding right ? By Todd not posting ( and your point in reference to kinsnake.com forums is well taken by the way ) you are saying that it is an inaction and not negative and he can't be labeled as bad guy because of that ........ In the american legal system if you are accused of a crime you have the option of taking the 5th , However if you choose to take that defense it does not mean that you can;t be proven guilty and labeled a " BAD GUY "

Not kidding in the least...

A few people had expressed sentiments that indicated that they felt Todd's lack of posting was evidence of guilt.

The guilt seems pretty well (if not absolutely) defined anyway, but Todd deciding not to post doesn't add to that guilt or in any way offer additional evidence of wrongdoing.

It doesn't detract from what has been shown either... but it in and of itself is not additional evidence of guilt.

I was simply expressing a couple of sentiments about the situation and any culpability that can be assigned...

Greg accepted the "Live delivery if the weather is good and they get delivered on time" guarantee... He verified that they arrived alive.

That would end the issue if it were solely based on the animal's weights or the problems he's having getting them feeding or any other health related issue. It might not have felt good and it might have been a rotten way to do business, but he had agreed to it.

The misrepresentation of genetics is still questionable as well though...

Just because something can't be proven to be true doesn't automatically make it false. In this instance, Greg is not getting the type of verification he wants and has doubts about the genetics of the animal and the way it was represented and sold. He has not proven that the animal doesn't have the genes advertised, just that there is an uncertainty that concerns him.

The industry standard for genetics in most instances is really just a written statement from the previous owner attesting to the truth of their statements. Sometimes animals will come with notarized statements or more complete lineage but most the time, the only real proof anyone has before they breed out the trait themselves is the word of the person they purchased from. Greg doubts Todd's word... Doubts are not identical to definite proof that it was misrepresented and Todd has, as of yet, refused to speak directly on the issue.

I stated pretty clearly that my personal opinion of Todd, a man I have never met or even heard of before this thread, has lowered to the point where I would be extremely hesitant to do business with him but I reccognize the difference between negative opinion and outright "Bad Guy", a label that I tend to reserve for the more blatant and proven scum (Underhill, Puker, that kid who tried to get people to send him axanthic regius, etc.) the true criminals.

There has been some spotty second hand information that indicates that, while the paper trail may be muddled, this animal might be what it was represented to be. If it turns out to be carrying the genes that it was advertised for, then Todd is not a bad guy... shady guy who ships underweight (Where are those reccent pics Greg?) animals... but not a "Bad Guy." "Bad Guy" denotes outright criminals.

 

[bpc]

Hey everyone! I'm back! Took the family to the beach for a few days.

Anyway, Greg, chill man. Next time you feel like yelling at me go back and count how many times I've said "Greg deserves a refund." Maybe that will make you fell better. Here's something else that might make you feel a little better (as it helps your case), Todd told me on the phone that he paid $750 for that hypo/het, not $250. So either he lied about that or there's more to the story of the $250 mentioned in the email.

Gary, Todd can give ANY type guarantee he wants, thats what I came here to argue in the first place. His gaurantee can be I guarantee them them to be rotten and stinking when they arrive and as long as he stands behind it, he can't be labeled bad guy for not going beyond the terms of his guarantee. After all, we've all seen that Greg WAS HAPPY ENOUGH with Todd guarantee to send him $1450.

And one more time:

"Feeding" means nothing more than it fed last time food was put in front of it.

"Guaranteed to feed FOR YOU" means what you all want "feeding" to mean. Get that in writing, then everyone is happy.

 

[Boavoyage]

And one more time:

"Feeding" means nothing more than it fed last time food was put in front of it.

"Guaranteed to feed FOR YOU" means what you all want "feeding" to mean. Get that in writing, then everyone is happy.

Does "Feeding" mean it will feed after it is dosed with medicine???
Couldn't resist

 

[bpc]

John, it could. We've already discussed the merits of Flagyl as an appetite stimulant. Feeding could also mean, yeah it will feed if you place the prey in it's mouth or if you slap the pinkie against it for awhile. It could mean it feeds on split brain. Could mean just about anything. In this case, the animal is feeding. Yes, it only takes live mice, but it does feed. If you just trust "feeding on F/T rats." period. You get nothing when it decides to change-up and feed on live mice. I have boids that change-up all the time. Especially the males (in fact I have a few driving me crazy right now! (stupid blankedy blankedy blank blanks!!!)

All I'm trying to say is, if you absolutely must have an animal that feeds only on F/T rats, make sure you get a written guarantee that the animal will fed on frozen rats for you after it arrives. In fact, you should also discuss how long the animal will be allowed to adjust to it's new environment, before a feeding is tried. And what happens if it won't. If you want all these guarantees ask for them in writting, don't discuss it, don't assume, GET IT IN WRITTING. Be picky before-hand, not after.

Do I buy animals this way? NO, I don't. But, I also don't try and hold the seller accountable for an animal I've already purchased. I think with 11 years experience I should be able to tell whether an animal is outwardly healthy or not. That's one more reason I don't buy much over the net. Frankly, I don't think it's a very smart way to buy animals, but I live in FL so I'm spoiled.

Greg got caught trusting somebody, it didn't work out. Learn from his experience.

 

[MSL]

Greg,

Was wondering how the hypo is doing? Did you ever get any documentation in writing?

Meryl Lechner

 

[Tom Chambers]

New ads?

Just an FYI - I noticed Mr Smith has posted some animals for sale on K-Snake and there is absolutely NO mention of terms or guarantee at all.

If he HAS read this thread, he hasn't learned much.

Kinda makes me wonder if the "guarantee" changes to meet the sellers needs when something goes wrong?

Tom Chambers

 

[Greg Riso]

Birds of a Feather....

Meryl, As I stated in my private message to you I've chosen not to post on this thread any more. Todd was used as a reference by Steve Ori in the thread about him hence the line in the above subject matter. I felt Brian Conley summarized this entire thread with his last line, "Greg got caught trusting somebody, it didn't work out. Learn from his experience." That works for me.