Tony Cueto Bad Guy! (reptile shows)

[bpc]

Yeah, I noticed that yesterday when I checked the site to see if I was still listed as a vendor. Whew, at least I'm not listed w/ the bad check guy! Now I'm really glad I don't take checks!

I got some private email yesterday after I posted, that I wanted some advice on. Some people felt Tony was only trying to get me to be quiet until the show has past and then he would start ignoring me again. I have stopped attacking him per his request, based on an email he sent, telling me he would consider letting me back in afterward, if I did so. NO, I'm not real happy about that situation, BUT being that his shows are the best around, and he IS in charge of the vendor list, I don't know what else to do. My original plan was to stand in the parking lot and hand out flyers pertaining to what happened to everyone that would take one. But, that surely would get me banned for life. I guess I wait and give Tony some breathing room, and then hope he really does give me another chance. What do yall think?

 

[Rob Hill/Geckos Anonymous]

I personally think you should give him some breathing room for the moment.

As I said before, I don't agree with him banning you based on your prices, if indeed that was the only reason(not saying it was or wasn't, because I don't know). However, it is his show and his choice to ban whomever whenever. BUT, I have known Tony to be very reasonable and I think if given some time and good communication between the two of you, a resolution could be met and you allowed back in. Tony's in a very stick situation as it is with all of us, but he's also still putting on a show and I think some breathing room for him to get that knocked out of the way would do some good before either one of you reapproaching the subject with the other.

 

[KNOBTAIL]

THE BOTTOM LINE

to all of this is whether you can afford not to be in his shows. Personally, since he obligated himself by taking your money, he should do the right thing. I would appreciate you keeping us posted as to the outcome of this. JERRY TRESSER

 

[ladyball]

I was looking forward to going to the show in Tampa and buying a snake from Brian. Maybe buying from someone else as well. Now I will just hold onto my money and buy from Brian at the Herp meeting.
I will pay my way into the show, but I will NOT put my money on ANY vendor that would work to ban another because their prices are "to low", and since I have no idea who those vendors could be, I will NOT buy from ANY ONE!!!!
NOR will I attend ANY of Tony's other shows. I will NOT promote them either! I have READ Tony's response to Brian. I WAS DISGUSTED and I will PERSONALLY tell Tony so!
I would like to breed Ball Pythons. What does that have to do with this thread? ALL of my snakes were bought from Brian! I couldn't afford them other wise! How many other breeders (including some of those at the show?) got started by buying young, inexpensive animals from sellers they trusted?
This last Herp meeting, I bought a nice partial black-back WC from Brian that wasn't eating. It was well marked on the container, he WAS priced lower because of it, and I WAS cautioned about his lack of eating by Brian. I saw other animals in FAR worse shape than he was, being sold for FAR more at the NRBA show (and they were supposed to all be CB or CH animals!) In fact, my friend and I were commenting on the fact that there were MANY animals being sold that were sickly yet OUTLANDISHLY PRICED, and how wonderful it was that Brian's were so HEALTHY LOOKING AND VERY AFFORDABLE!!! I HAVE NEVER seen Brian with a SICK animal I would NEVER believe he would EVER overcrowd a tank either!!!!
It doesn't matter at this point what Tony's real reasons WHERE for banning Brian. What IS important are the slanderous remarks being MADE by him. (Hmmm I wonder what some of the lawyers in Orlando would have to say about them? Brian, since Tony put those remarks in writing, in PUBLIC, you might have a case!)
I will be sure to let my feelings be known at the show. To Tony personally. That is the ONLY reason I am putting my money down at the door. I have OTHER things I can do that weekend, (like stay home with my mom whom I haven't seen in MONTHS, or fix my new Jeep)but I had plans to go to the show, and will do so ONLY to make my voice heard IN PERSON.
Tony HAS the right to ban any one he wants, but he ALSO has the RESPONSIBILITY to be honest and up front about the reason FOR the decision! I DON'T agree with the decision, but I would be comfortable with it if Tony was HONEST and not hiding behind BS!

 

[robin d.]

i personally can see both sides however this last post was just uncalled for and Tony also has the right to refuse admitance as well and he has the right to have you escorted for being a public nuisance (sp?) and he also has the right to call the police if you get out of hand..... i personally think you should chill a bit and give tony some breathing room because throwing a temper tantrum is going to cause problems for you but most likely more for brian. might be a good idea for brian if you stay home with your ma......

and by the way what do you think the difference between wc and ch are?? i mean i know what they stand for but how exactly do they differ...... because if you think they have the huge enornmouse facilities with racks and rubbermaid containers with fresh water day and night lighting your really wrong... most ch babies are obtained by them collecting the eggs incubating them, hatching them, stuffing them in a box bag or crate and shipping them even before their first meal.... not a whole lot of difference between wc and ch sometimes......


scenario: this is a fictional situation, not refering to anyone is specific
once you begin breeding you will see where tony or his other vendors may be coming from... you put all your time and money into breeding these animals...... making sure they are care for and pampered like a king you go to a show and even though you balls are only $30,(even though by this time you have already invested lets says 60 dollars in feeding,caging,heating,substrate and you own personal time) at the table next to you is a guy who just picked up a shipment at the airport right before the show (basically right off the boat,if you will) and is selling his BP's for four bucks or even ten. thing is alot of poeple either dont know anything about cb v wc or dont care........
all the person selling the wc/ch are woried about is making a buck because if they werent they would invest a little more time and money into the animals they are selling, how do you know if these animals dont have IBD , paramixo,giardia ect?? he sure doesnt know... they have never been quarenteened......so if he is next to you hey you might get something too or if you buy from him you might spred it to your whole collection... so many more things after this point could happen but thats a whole other thread that could possibly effects all of us or at least some of us.....

hey everyone has the right to do business but is the way they are handling their business right or wrong???? it isnt up to me to say so but a comunity as a whole sure can approve or disapprove and sometimes certain actions have to be taken to ensure the happiness and environment of the comunity....

maybe this is what this comes down to... i certainly dont know sometimes for a second you have to put yourself in another persons shoes to get the other point of view

 

[WebSlave]

Ladyball, the next time I check this thread, if I don't see your full name in your signature area or full name field, as required to post on the BOI, I will have to delete your message. Since I am heading out to the show on Friday morning, you may have more time than usual to do this, but don't bet on my NOT checking in here in the morning before I leave.

Them's the rules around here.

Thanks.

 

[ladyball]

Sorry webslave, at two in the morning I missed that. Here ya go! As to the other post, PLEASE READ EVERYTHING!
I DID post that I believe Tony has the right to refuse to allow people to vend at his show (NOT EXACT WORDS). However, the reasons stated are NOT HONEST! As a future breeder, I will exercise MY right to refuse selling an animal to someone, why would I refuse a show promoter the right to ban someone who really is a sleazy guy?
I have seen Brian's animals at MANY different shows (over the last TWO years!) and I have not seen any difference in the way he houses them. His tables are set up the same way, whether at the Herp meeting, a small town festival, or a MAJOR show! I have YET to see ANY signs of the bad things Tony mentioned.
I have heard stories of JPPets. I can understand why a promoter would want people to be dissassociated from them, but also from the stories, I understand they are one of THE largest importers(?)
To the next question. I DO understand the difference between CH and WC. It is possible I misunderstood whether the CH animals could have been shown at the NRBA, but I believe they were. That surprised me, since I DO know the difference, but hey it was THEIR show!
If you possibly didn't like the reference to lawyers and such, I am sorry. I have been accused of being TO blunt, and TO free with my opinon (which like every knows resembles a part of EVERYONE's anatomy!) However, if you are sticking up for Tony's rights, don't forget to stick up for my freedom of speech right too. I meant what I said. It could have been put more tactfully, I am sure.
Keep in mind though, how many new people will read this thread. How many will believe Tony simply because he is a show promoter? How much business COULD Brian lose because of false accusations? Nobody has mentioned this that I saw. That is something for ALL of you to remember.
My last point, and Brian mentioned this to someone else, IT COULD HAPPEN TO YOU. Wouldn't YOU like to have YOUR clients stick up for YOU?!?

 

[bpc]

Thank you so much for your kind words Lisa. Please go and enjoy the show, and feel free to spend your money w/ whomever you'd like. I don't want to spoil the show for anyone. I just want Tony to know that I do have some public support. I continue to get nanny-nanny boo-boo emails from him saying I don't have any. I really just want to be there with everyone else having a great show.

 

[ladyball]

I am not surprised by this response from you Brian. I have come to expect integrity in dealing with you. To bad others (who should KNOW better) haven't learned that as yet. Or maybe they have and are counting on your moral integrity to hide behind.
I re-read your first post. You DID have time to work this out with Tony first. I am SURE you did. You also mentioned that he is PMing you, so you also have had time to get this straight. OBVIOUSLY even in private Tony is not willing to do the right thing.
I hope that it can be resolved properly someday.

 

[ms_terese]

once you begin breeding you will see where tony or his other vendors may be coming from... you put all your time and money into breeding these animals...... making sure they are care for and pampered like a king you go to a show and even though you balls are only $30,(even though by this time you have already invested lets says 60 dollars in feeding,caging,heating,substrate and you own personal time) at the table next to you is a guy who just picked up a shipment at the airport right before the show (basically right off the boat,if you will) and is selling his BP's for four bucks or even ten. thing is alot of poeple either dont know anything about cb v wc or dont care........

Robin, there are shows that allow CBB only. So if Tony and his other vendors have issues........why promote or vend at a show that allows WC? People have the option of attending, vending, or promoting only CBB shows. While I don't disagree with your concerns, the fact is that if a show promoter wants to allow WC or CH animals, then the situation you just described is obviously a risk that must be taken.

 

[myexotix]

Greek Tragedy

This situation is tragic in the classical sense that there are enough gray areas that it is impossible to identify pure 'right' and pure 'wrong'. This discussion could keep going forever.

The one opinion that I WOULD like to express, is that the subject line of the original post is in error. Tony Cueto is NOT a bad guy.

Mind you, neither is Brian.

I have bought cheap animals from Brian for resale - so I can hardly condemn the practice of selling bargain animals. That said, our industry certainly IS affected when enough twelve year olds lose enough freshly-landed ball pythons.

If we don't want laws passed to govern us, we have to police ourselves. If you believe that Tony acted in the best interest of all of us by increasing product quality and/or rationalizing prices, act accordingly with your support for him. If you believe Brian was not impacting animal quality and/or benefitting our industry by providing a low-cost alternative, act accordingly with your support for him.

That Tony has the right to ban Brian, me or anyone he pleases is obvious. That he will have to attend to the consequences (or benefits) of this and any other business decision is corollary.

I can tell you that I will not stop doing Tony's shows because of this - he has been fair and even generous to Yvonne and me on far too many occasions.

Manny and Yvonne Granados
www.myexotix.com

 

[bpc]

Nor would I expect anyone to stop doing his shows. Heck, the only reason I'm here is try and get back in myself.

he has been fair and even generous to Yvonne and me on far too many occasions.

That's what's missing here. I don't feel I was treated fairly.

I was banned w/o warning.

I have been accused of things which I flat out did not do.

And every time I approach Tony to discuss it (the banning), he changes the rules on me. "don't call, the decision has been made vs. I was going to give you another chance." So I'm left wondering what is really going on.

That's what's killing me about this. Even though I didn't do anything wrong (IMO), the only thing I'm left with is the court of public opinion. Which is why I'm here.

 

[KNOBTAIL]

referring to the Granados post, your right

it is a greek tragedy, but not for the reasons you expoused. Tony has not acted in the benefit for the many, but in the benefit for the few! I wish that I was wrong, but we dont even know what is wrong, and yet Brian was banned.
Secondly, we do need laws passed, because we have never policed ourselves. This can be clearly demonstrated by showing w.c. in c.b. shows, just for openers! If Brian is accurate, and he was banned for these ludicrous reasons, who does this actually benefit................ its simple, the other competitive vendors. What Tony is doing in effect is eliminating compitition at his own show. And you find this beneficial for everyone !!

Finally, I am not concened about 12 year old loosing Ball pythons as much as I am concerned about 12 year olds getting into this business. The problem is when Tony reaches a boiling point with vendors, and finally gets his act together about how to handle these cry babies, the very complainers may be on their way out.
Personally, and I dont know Tony, but I know the Herp business real well, my intuiton tells me its not a question of "if ", but "when". JERRY TRESSER

 

[Tacticalmaniac]

another view

OK, I'm NOT taking sides here .... but I'm gonna put a bit of my own spin on things I guess .... I mean no offence to anyone.

First ... What if a vendor had reserved and paid for a table/tables at Tony's show and then, 2 weeks before the show, called him and said "I'm not coming ... give me my money back" ... you all REALLY think he would drop that refund in the mail with a smile on his face? Doubt it.

Second .... IF pricing were a problem with the other vendors ... tuff stuff .... it's America boys and girls. If I were to show up with 12 cb baby ball pythons, 25 cb baby albino burms and 80 cb baby red-tail boas and promptly slap a sign on my tables that says "ANY SNAKE $40.00", am I going to be banned from the next show for sick animals or crowded cages regardless of my setup? (I'm NOT saying that is what happened however). If the other vendors don't like my pricing .... buy my stock out, offer better animals or SUCK IT UP!!!

Third ..... Why weren't any of the "complaints" brought to Brian's attention immediately/by the other vendors? I'm NOT saying they were fabricated, but it does look a bit fishy to me (just my opinion and I wan't there so I can't make that call).

Fourth ..... Why wouldn't Tony let Brian attend that last show .... get pics of his sick animals and over crowded cages (I'm NOT saying these conditions exsisted), have his vet take notes and at the end of the show approach him, pics in hand and vet at his side and say "I can't let you attend any more of my shows ... and HERE is why" ..?

Finally .... I can see where finances come into play .... but if vendor pressure were the case, how long until the same group finds another vendor they don't like? Would it be worth letting a few vendors run out everyone else? If you are in danger of losing 5 vendors if you don't ban one and then anothe, then another .... eventually don't you wind up banning more than the 5 you were trying to keep? If so ... where does that make financial sense? And how do you deal with vendors knowing they can push you into doing that kind of thing, I thought the PROMOTER was in charge, not vendors with attitudes. What is more valuable to a person ......losing 1 vendor but keeping 5 more that tell YOU what to do and having a few extra bucks in your pocket OR losing 5 strong-armers and keeping one vendor and your spine in tact (once again I'm NOT saying this was the case in this instance)?

Once again .... I DON'T MEAN TO OFFEND ANYONE, I'M NOT POINTING FINGERS OR SAYING THAT I BELIEVE THE ABOVE TO BE THE CIRCUMSTANCES IN THIS CASE (nor am I saying they weren't .... they are merely hypothetical variables in this senario) ..... it is just something to think about that MAY pertain to this situation either wholly, in part, OR NOT AT ALL. Good luck to all and Happy Halloween.

 

[ladyball]

Very good points Tactical. I loved the part about Tony happily writing out and sending that refund check! YEAH that would happn in THIS lifetime! NOT!!

 

[WebSlave]

First ... What if a vendor had reserved and paid for a table/tables at Tony's show and then, 2 weeks before the show, called him and said "I'm not coming ... give me my money back" ... you all REALLY think he would drop that refund in the mail with a smile on his face? Doubt it.

As a matter of fact, a couple of years ago we were scheduled to be vendors at one of the May shows in Raleigh NC. Early in April, I had a rather large order come in, and found myself basically sold out of animals. I contacted Tony about this and told him I was going to have to cancel out of his show, simply because I no longer had enough animals for sale to make the show worthwhile attending.

Now I certainly did not ask for, nor expect, my money back for my tables. But about a week later I found a refund check from him in my mailbox. Granted this was more like a month before the show, rather than two weeks before, but nonetheless he did refund my money. I can't tell you whether he had a smile on his face or not, but knowing Tony, he very well may have.

 

[myexotix]

Tony HAS (in effect) refunded my money

First, a quick comment on "it's America boys and girls": that type of thinking only appears to be popular when it is applied to allowing people to do things and not so popular when choice is excercised by someone in a controlling sense. As I said, I am not taking sides either, but Tony has the right to exercise choice too... it's America for him too.

Also, I was supposed to be in Tampa right now. I injured my back a few days ago. Long story short, I asked and Tony agreed to apply my table fees to the next show of his that we do. TWO DAYS prior to the show!

He knew I was going to pay for the next show anyway, so this (in effect) constitutes a refund.

Manny Granados
www.myexotix.com

 

[HRoss]

Wow, taking this thread until the day of the show. I hope the person who was banned really does not think this publicity is helping his cause. I would not consider your application ever after this public bashing. Tony is the equiv. of a club promoter/ owner not a reptile dealer. The only thing that matters is his show going smoothly; obviously from your childish whining you have no idea how to work in a (smooth) public environment. Why don't you try distributing flyers daily in school with negative reactions to your principal or board of education's policy/decision making ability, and see where you are with your tenure.

You say you are a high shcool biology teacher. What the hell are you doing selling fresh imports to people at a show geared for a younger, highly ill-informed audience. A Teacher of all people should do more to sell animals that are free from god knows what that just landed from a thirld world disease fest. I think it is more than negligent that you go through import crates and then go to school, and the last time i checked the yellow busses are still out twice a day. No sanitation procedure is good enough to warrant you risking the spread of disease. This upsets me more than the thiefs of the reptile world. And who pays for your weekend penny scoring when something goes wrong= Me and everyone else who pays property tax hear in florida.

I will be at the show today, and will not have time to answer your replies. But, before you accuse me of being ignorant to the ways of the florida school system. I will tell you I spent 20 years growing up in every aspect of my 2 retired teacher /parents life.

Howard Ross

One more thing, since this is still giong. A lady from the first few pages asked to identify an indivual booth for the smell of decay. Since when did it become appropriate for any booth to smell like sh!t? That is the sole reason i do not take my animals to Tony's show. I can not stress enough how glad I am that he is trying to clean it up. You might be the whipping boy now, but he has a much bigger house to clean.

 

[bpc]

Howard, ummm gee, where do I start?

think it is more than negligent that you go through import crates and then go to school

Wow! Ever heard of hand washing? Not to mention there are way more human pathogenic organisms at ANY school than there are at an importers.

And who pays for your weekend penny scoring when something goes wrong= Me and everyone else who pays property tax hear in florida

What the H E double hockey sticks are u talking about?

but he has a much bigger house to clean

So his shows suck, but you're going anyway? Have you ever been accused of being hypocritcal?

I am no longer attacking Tony, I am only here discussing what has happened. Fact is, Tony puts on a great show.

So, Howard if this happened to you, you would simply sit back, take it, and hope that someday, maybe a year or two from now, it would all get fixed?

You'd be ok with the fact that you'd spent hundreds, maybe even thousands of dollars getting ready to a show, only to be banned 2 weeks before it? You'd be ok with the guy banning you, not have ever saying a bad word to you at the show where all this stuff supposedly happened? You'd be ok with him letting you do 2 more shows after that, and him telling you "Thank you, so much" the last time you talked to him face to face, and then 3-4 weeks later banning you out of nowhere? You'd be ok w/ him accusing you of things you flat out did not do, and calling into question your ethics?

Well Howard, if that's all ok with you, then you and I are two very different people.

 

[HRoss]

I am running behind, so i will clarify myself for you. And yes we are very different.

A. i will not give tony table money to sell my animals, and i will not put my animals on any other persons table there. Yes, i do have a shows worth to sell, but my hypocrosy does have some limits. But, i will pay 7 dollars to see my friends.

a. i will pay if it cleans up. if i wish to smell decay while working i will find a new job

B. Classrooms are a terrible petri dish waiting to happen. I also, have had the privalege of working with thousands of animals myself and know the quickness with which a pathogen can spread, be it airborne, contact or any combo of unsanitary reasons combined with. For you to tell me that washing my hands is repsonsible for getting salmnonella or E. coli out form underneath the nail beds is simple and insulting, not to mention what is stuck in clothing and then transferred to car and so on.

C. I know part b is oversimplified, but i would like to get going.

You are correct schools are overburdened with disease spreading like butter (look at a simlple flu). So i guess adding a JUST a few extra highly infectious and possibly deadly viral or bacterial pathogens is just ok since it is already a sick fest. And yes, when i look at my property tax a huge portion goes to the school system, if you get a child or group of chidlren sick it comes out of my wallet. All so you could blow out some wild gecko for a whopping 20 cent profit.

To brian personally, besides my feelings on which i have written, I am sorry for the timing and money loss. But, having run several country and night clubs while going to school. I understand Tony's decision whether he is correct about you or not. There is no room for b.s when running a show.

I have not spell or grammer checked, so sorry if my words are spelled wrong or my sentences a tad run on. but, you crying is only getting him more through the door and making you look even worse.