• Responding to email notices you receive.
    **************************************************
    In short, DON'T! Email notices are to ONLY alert you of a reply to your private message or your ad on this site. Replying to the email just wastes your time as it goes NOWHERE, and probably pisses off the person you thought you replied to when they think you just ignored them. So instead of complaining to me about your messages not being replied to from this site via email, please READ that email notice that plainly states what you need to do in order to reply to who you are trying to converse with.

  • IMPORTANT! PLEASE READ!! About the Google Adsense ads being displayed

    =====================
    Posted 08/15/2025
    =====================


    Yeah, I know. They are a pain in the butt. But they pay the bills to keep my server running. Just a fact of life, I am afraid.

    Want to get rid of them? Simple. Just become a Contributor level member or above and they will be gone. -> Please click HERE."

    Is that too much for me to ask of you to keep this site running? Well, sorry about that. I too wish I could get everything for free. But alas.....

    =====================
    Addendum: 01/10/2026
    =====================


    Google Adsense ad revenue for December, 2025 was just $30 over the cost of the lease for the server running this site. So, in effect, the money providing the incentive for me to continue running this site is coming SOLELY from the paid memberships and sponsorships here. Which honestly ain't much....

Tony Hurts Genetic Guarentee??? (HETS)

wyblep said:
He reassured me that he produced the animal and gave me a guarantee of if it did not prove out he would refund my purchase price I would get to keep the female (now a proven breeder) and I would get a albino of my choice.
Click to expand...
Paul, you asked in your first post what people thought was fair. If Tony sticks to the original guarantee you said he gave you, as posted above, that would be fair. I understand that you feel you should be compensated for potential lost production, but there is no way to actually predict exactly how many of the eggs would have/should have been albinos. Asking Tony to refund you and give you albinos for each year she didn't produce is maybe asking for too much, in my opinion. I have never dealt with Tony but have heard nothing but good things about him previously, I have dealt with you and would do so again as well as recommend others to you, hopefully you guys will be able to come to a resolution that you both think is fair! :thumbsup:
 
I hope Tony comes on here and address's this post.
Tony is a good guy and has quality animals. I cannot believe he would mis-represent an animal. Not like him at all.
Puzzling to say the least.

Randal Berry
 
Paul,

So many times on the BOI, people who claim to have been wronged make up wild accusations as the thread gets deeper, and others put their 2 cents in. You seem to state the facts and I feel you have been wronged.

I have also met Tony several times, and once was going to do a trade with him. He had a problem returning, or answering emails and I went another way. I believe Tony is an honest man and can be trusted. I think his avoidance with the emails is just his nature.

I am also a science teacher and and I believe some how some way this animal is not a het. You stuck in there a year longer than I would have in proving out this het. I believe Tony owes you more than the original purchase price. Tony what would you expect if you bought the snake from Paul and it didn't prove out after 2 years? I think it should be withing reason though.
 
Ok, I ‘m back. I just wanted to comment on a couple of the posts. I do not feel I am going to get compensated for all of the production that I may have lost, but I do feel that there should be something compensated for my loss.

What I don’t like is how people sell fake or questionable hets and think that after a couple of years when the animal does not prove out they can just refund the purchase price and everything will be fine. I feel there needs to be consequences to prevent them from doing this. What if everyone that was sold fake hets from CRE or TSE just sold them to some one else and past the buck because they were ripped off? And then if the person does breed them after how many years of investing into that project and proves them to be fake, all they get is there money back? That’s Bull$%#&. There has to be some form of compensation or else you are opening the door for every scumbag in this industry to sell a bunch of fake hets. And after two to three years when people start proving them out all they have two do is refund the purchase price and they just received an interest free loan for two to three years. Don’t forget about the ones that don’t breed or die, then that was pure profit for them.

I feel that his original guarantee of my purchase price refunded and also an albino for each year I bred her is fair. Tony is the one who insisted that I breed her two years. If it was up to him I would be trying again this year with her. Here is a solution that I feel is fair for both parties. I feel that my money back and two albino females or another animal for the same value of the two albino's. And I will keep her and breed her again this year and I would be willing to document the breedings with photo's ect. The results will be posted here.

If she would happen to prove out, I would give Tony a public apology and return the same amount he gave me in animals I produced that year. I would also refund him the $1100.00 he is going to return to me. Now I think that this is a fair solution for both parties. Tony Please let me lnow what you think of this solution. Paul
 
Another question I have is has anyone ever proved any of Tony's hets out? Is anyone here working with hets from Tony? He has been selling them for a few years now so there should have been some breeding this year. Paul
 
Paul, I think you are asking too much.

You probably could have returned the female after the first year for your money back. There are too many what if's.

If you really want to know you got what you paid for, buy Homozygous animals from now on, and produce your own hets.

Dave
 
Are you F%$^& Kidding me? David your telling me I got what I paid for, Because I trusted someone and bought a het animal from them so I deserved to get screwed? I should have bought morphs instead? And when I contacted Tony the first year he insisted she was a het and I just had bad odds. And told me to breed her again.
 
understood wrong

I think what he was saying is...... If you want to know for sure you are working with hets, produce your own. I don't think he was saying you deserve what you got. Were ya Dave?

Dino
 
Paul,

There is always a risk when buying Hets, that is Ball breeding 101 stuff. If you want to be sure to produce a certain morph, buy Homozygous animals to produce the desired morph or to make your own Hets, or take a chance.

If I was in your shoes, Yes, I would be peeved, and if there was a verbal agreement as to what would happen if the Het did not prove out, then it should be abided by, by Tony. It seems that he is not going to do that. I would say he at least owes you your money back, and should let you keep the snake. If she proves out, you owe Tony the money...if she never proves out, then you got a normal, a bunch of Hets that you made, for free. Sometimes you have to bite the bullet, I think this is one of those times. You are pissed, and think you are owed the world, for what you MIGHT have produced. I would say Tony should refund your money, and you keep the snake, and if she proves out, you send Tony the money back.
 
Dave

I quess what you are saying is Tony does not have to go by his agreement. What I read if she does not prove out I will give you your money back and an albino of your choice. 2 years of breeding her adds up to 2 albinos. I have not read where Paul is asking for the world or for what he could have produced in compensation. Paul is only asking for what Tony SAID he would do. I think Paul is being fair for his latest offer to Tony. So where are you going with this Dave. Are we going to just let people sell fake hets and then just skate by?

Chad Umbaugh
 
So you think there should be no composation? Just my money back? I do feel sometimes you need to bite the bullet and Tony should be opening wide not I. He messed up not me. I will tell you right now this is the reason the ball market is taking a undesirable turn. The new investor decides to buy a clown male and produce some hets to raise up, and sell a few to help recoup his/her investment. What you are telling everyone that reads this thread is do not buy hets from anyone? So how does that person feel about making that investment now? Did you even read my previous post about just giving the original purchase price back with no other compensation, what would happen if this became the industry stander ed? Paul
 
I think this thread is getting a little off topic. The fact remains that Tony Hurt sold me a animal that was not a het. Tony could have made this right between us just by answering the phone or returning a call and holding up his end of a agreement. He couldn't even give me 5 minutes of his time on the phone to try and work this out. And still he does not feel the need to come to this thread and answer any of these questions? Paul
 
I will say it again...

if you want a guarantee, to produce the desired morph, buy a Homozygous animal. Buying a Het from anyone, is taking a risk. That is the main reason 99% of my Hetero animals came from Brian Sharp ( Albinos) and the Sutherland's ( Het Pieds, Het Caramels, Het Axanthics).

What do you have in writing from Tony? A verbal agreement is only as good as the two parties morals. EVERYTHING should be in writing. Tony can say, give me the snake back and I will give you your money back. Fair, not really. You housed and fed the snake for at least what, 4 years? You did make your own Hets, but that was not your goal. So, fair, not really, but one solution that Tony would probably like. You keep the snake, and he sends your money back. That is a touchy sitiuation, because if the female did prove out later on down the road, Tony would have to trust you, that if you did prove her a Het, that you would send the money back to him. Fair, you get your money back, and keep the snake, and the Hets you produced. Tony got a free loan from you...So what if he does send you an Albino, and lets you keep the snake, and gives you your money back, what would happen if you proved her out? It would be at least a year from now, Tony would be giving you a free Albino, and your money back, and wonder if you would be up front with him, if the Het ever proved out. It is a touchy situation. I would say, Tony sends you an Albino female. It will be a few years before she would breed, and it would give you time to prove the Het out, one or two more years of trying. If you get Albinos from the Het, you send the Albino back. If not, you keep the Albino and the normal. What would suck is, if you do not produce Albino from the Het for a year or two more, and then all of a sudden did...then what?

Dave
 
What about this

Tony sends you an Albino female and a new Het female, you send him back the female he thinks is a het, and let him prove it out.

Dave
 
Why not give me my money back and the albino? I tried the het thing with Tony already remember? And as far as him trusting me if we went with my idea. Look at my reputation on here.I Would not jepodize my business over one het albino female. I have over 17 adult het albino females right now. This is the princable of the matter were talking about here. And I would like to be the one breeding the female so Tony cant just come on here next year and say he proved her out. I would not heitate to apoligize to Tony in front of all of you if she proved out next year for me. But I think we all know that the odds of her proveing out after three years are a little far fetched. Tell me something David if your hets did not prove out what would you have thought would be fair? And what kind of guarentee are you giveing on the Het Axanthics you have for sale right now? Paul
 
The Het Axanthics I have for sale are proven Hets.

I produced an Axanthic with them in 05, but it never made it out of the egg. I purchased them straight from Dan and Colette.

If you have so many Het females, if I was you, I would have asked for my money back after the first year. Would not have wanted to bother with something that might not prove out.

Again, what do you have in writing as a guarantee?

Dave
 
Dave

So it is ok for Paul to trust Tony on his word ( which is not looking good right now), but it would not be good for Tony to trust Paul on his word (LOL). Obviously Tony is to busy to worry about this or does not care. Why would Paul trust Tony to send him a het. the second time around? That is why we are here right now because Tony sent Paul a NORMAL as a het. The only good thing you are saying Dave is a vebal agreement is only as good as the morals, well Tony's morals must be low and for the quick $buck$ like most of the con-artist in the reptile industry. Even if the guarantee was in writing do you think Tony would stand buy it? His word is not good, you think his writing is any better? He can't even pick up the phone to call someone back or answer it. But why?

HAS ANYONE PROVED OUT A 100% HET. FROM TONY HURT YET????????

Chad Umbaugh
 
Well

If there is something in writing, Tony should AT LEAST be following through with the written guarantee.

If Paul really has 17 Het Albino females, then I would ask for my money back, and if I can keep the snake. I can see Tony asking for the snake back, and you really cannot blame him. Take your refund, and buy yourself a nice Albino female, and chalk it up to a learning experience. If Tony does not come here and explain some things, or if you do not write that Tony has satisfactorily taken care of you, then this thread will come up and warn people.

If it was me, I would send you your money back, and a new Het Albino female, and if I had one that was at least a yearling, I would send the oldest, largest one I had up for sale, and let you keep the original female and keep me posted on whether or not she proves out.

The real problem with Hets is, most people use multiple males in with certain females. My Ghost x PH Ghost clutch will be sold as Possible Hets, because I ran my male Ember Het Ghost in with the female PH too. Some people, would sell them as Hets, just to make a few extra bucks.
 
He assured me that she was a het. If it was up to me I would have returned her after the first year. Tony kept saying I just had bad odds and to trust him she is a het. So I did what he asked and bred her again with the same results. I felt that if worse comes to worse he would honor his original guarantee. Well he wont even answer the phone for me? Paul
 
Back
Top