Top Shelf Exotics (Inquiry)

[Chris@TSE]

Good to hear bob. Thanks for your words earlier, I am glad we were able to resolve our differences. I will be dealing with the other problems encountered upon my return as we discussed. Take care of yourself.

 

[Chris@TSE]

Bob #2, glad your order arrived in good order.

 

[nicolai]

First I would just like to say that I DID note that I was contacted, and second, I NEVER said anyone was a con or a crook (I only say this because you said that right after quoting me).
.

Sorry Bob, I should have been more specific since i was indeed speaking of the other person (Ian S) on the thread. I Didnt mean to imply you had said anything derogatory.


P.S. Congratulation on you new aquisitions, I wish i had the monies avaiilable to get into the high end ball morphs too!!! (even though I am not even sure what a orange ghost ball python looks like, guess i will have to do a search on that one).

 

[NorthamExotics]

MY TSE Experience

TSE has shipped animals that were sick and in no condition to be sold let alone shipped.

I purchased 3 animals from Top Shelf on September 23rd, 2005, hets for clown, hypo, and pied. I received a package on Septmeber 27th containing 3 ball pythons, all cold and lethargic. I sent an email right away to inform TSE:

Top Shelf Exotics:

I received my Fed Ex shipment shortly after 11:00. They are cold and lethargic. I honestly would have expected a heat pack in the box. Additionally, they look very thin and in poor condition. I am apprehensive about their overall health. Since I didn't sepcifically ask about the size prior to ordering, I cannot make any specific complaints about that but I was surprised at how small they are. I wanted to alert you of their condition and my initial impressions in case there is an underlying problem in the near future. Do you have individual feeding information for these three snakes?

My email was met with snide comments apologizing for my "assumptions". After coaxing information out of TSE regarding their feeding history I sent this:

I'm very concerned about their well-being and they look very thin. The het pied can't hold his head up, is thin, and is very limp with no muscle tone . The het hypo is much the same way. The het clown is active and has better body firmness than the other two. I will be surprised to see the pied and hypo be able to take live prey.

I do hope and expect them to come around but I need to make sure to make mention of my concerns. I trust in your reputation to make things right should I have a problem with these three snakes.

One snake died overnight and I sent this:

Top Shelf Exotics:

The Het Ghost died during the night and weighed 43g at death. The Het Pied is currently 48g, hollow bellied and limp, but not dead yet. Please advise how you would like to remedy this situation and what you would like me to do with the corpse(s). I do not want two more unhealthy, underweight animals. If you have nothing healthy and at least 100g I would prefer a refund for the Het Ghost and Het Pied. The Het Clown weighs 99g, appears active and has much better body mass. I am cautiously optimistic in his case.

Almost immediately my husbandry was called into question. I am unaware of what kind of poor husbandry you would have to subject snakes to short of cooking or freezing that would result in such low weights and death so quickly. The het pied subsequently died the following day. Photos were sent to TSE to document the deaths and the bodies frozen. I returned their paperwork as requested but lo and behold when the replacement animals were supposed to ship, there were mistakenly fed. The animals were finally replaced the following week and appeared to be in better health.

Since then the animals have done well but I have this sinking feeling that we will be hearing about how no hets from TSE prove out that were conveniently sold at the time when Chris was out and disavowing responsibility.

I hope this doesn't turn out to be a Carolina Reptile type of situation....
______

Jason Northam

Ps. If anyone needs the actual emails or pictures as further proof I would be happy to provide them.

 

[jglass38]

TSE has shipped animals that were sick and in no condition to be sold let alone shipped.

I purchased 3 animals from Top Shelf on September 23rd, 2005, hets for clown, hypo, and pied. I received a package on Septmeber 27th containing 3 ball pythons, all cold and lethargic. I sent an email right away to inform TSE:

Top Shelf Exotics:

I received my Fed Ex shipment shortly after 11:00. They are cold and lethargic. I honestly would have expected a heat pack in the box. Additionally, they look very thin and in poor condition. I am apprehensive about their overall health. Since I didn't sepcifically ask about the size prior to ordering, I cannot make any specific complaints about that but I was surprised at how small they are. I wanted to alert you of their condition and my initial impressions in case there is an underlying problem in the near future. Do you have individual feeding information for these three snakes?

My email was met with snide comments apologizing for my "assumptions". After coaxing information out of TSE regarding their feeding history I sent this:

I'm very concerned about their well-being and they look very thin. The het pied can't hold his head up, is thin, and is very limp with no muscle tone . The het hypo is much the same way. The het clown is active and has better body firmness than the other two. I will be surprised to see the pied and hypo be able to take live prey.

I do hope and expect them to come around but I need to make sure to make mention of my concerns. I trust in your reputation to make things right should I have a problem with these three snakes.

One snake died overnight and I sent this:

Top Shelf Exotics:

The Het Ghost died during the night and weighed 43g at death. The Het Pied is currently 48g, hollow bellied and limp, but not dead yet. Please advise how you would like to remedy this situation and what you would like me to do with the corpse(s). I do not want two more unhealthy, underweight animals. If you have nothing healthy and at least 100g I would prefer a refund for the Het Ghost and Het Pied. The Het Clown weighs 99g, appears active and has much better body mass. I am cautiously optimistic in his case.

Almost immediately my husbandry was called into question. I am unaware of what kind of poor husbandry you would have to subject snakes to short of cooking or freezing that would result in such low weights and death so quickly. The het pied subsequently died the following day. Photos were sent to TSE to document the deaths and the bodies frozen. I returned their paperwork as requested but lo and behold when the replacement animals were supposed to ship, there were mistakenly fed. The animals were finally replaced the following week and appeared to be in better health.

Since then the animals have done well but I have this sinking feeling that we will be hearing about how no hets from TSE prove out that were conveniently sold at the time when Chris was out and disavowing responsibility.

I hope this doesn't turn out to be a Carolina Reptile type of situation....
______

Jason Northam

Ps. If anyone needs the actual emails or pictures as further proof I would be happy to provide them.

In fairness, you should provide the emails sent to you by TSE since you provided your own.

 

[nicolai]

TSE has shipped animals that were sick and in no condition to be sold let alone shipped..

sorry to hear that!!!

I do hope and expect them to come around but I need to make sure to make mention of my concerns. I trust in your reputation to make things right should I have a problem with these three snakes...

Which he did as you said, as will all reputable dealers.

The animals were finally replaced the following week and appeared to be in better health....

Glad he came through for you and replaced the animals.

ince then the animals have done well but I have this sinking feeling that we will be hearing about how no hets from TSE prove out that were conveniently sold at the time when Chris was out and disavowing responsibility.....

I hope this doesn't turn out to be a Carolina Reptile type of situation.

.
You had a nice honest post concerning a transaction and your disappointment with it, and the results of the transaction to the end up until these comments.
You are now making a deflamatory, and business altering remark without proof. Here we go again!!!!
I dont think a sinking feeling gives you the right to criticize them on the BOI in publis unless you have proof of it. Now it would be safe to safe people reading this may not buy hets from him because you put his hets into question without even having any proof. Is that fair??



Ps. If anyone needs the actual emails or pictures as further proof I would be happy to provide them.[/QUOTE]

 

[nicolai]

sorry for the ps. part at the bottom of my post,I didnt see it there when i quoted parts of his post.

 

[shrap]

You are now making a deflamatory, and business altering remark without proof. Here we go again!!!!
I dont think a sinking feeling gives you the right to criticize them on the BOI in publis unless you have proof of it. Now it would be safe to safe people reading this may not buy hets from him because you put his hets into question without even having any proof. Is that fair??

You beat me to it, Nicolai. I am in 100% agreement with you on this one. There was no reason what so ever to inject that kind of speculation into this thread.

 

[NorthamExotics]

I will post them to the best of my ability... hopefully there aren't any missing ones.. mine are in red, theirs in blue. I don't know how to paste the header showing dates and times.

9/27/05 11:40AM
Top Shelf Exotics:

I received my Fed Ex shipment shortly after 11:00. They are cold and lethargic. I honestly would have expected a heat pack in the box. Additionally, they look very thin and in poor condition. I am apprehensive about their overall health. Since I didn't sepcifically ask about the size prior to ordering, I cannot make any specific complaints about that but I was surprised at how small they are. I wanted to alert you of their condition and my initial impressions in case there is an underlying problem in the near future. Do you have individual feeding information for these three snakes?

Jason Northam

9/27/05 12:15PM
We apologize that you assumed they would be larger but unfortunately we are not liable for customers assumptions.



As for the heat pack, when checking destination and departure temperatures a heatpack was not required. Live arrival was also guaranteed, you or the animals were at no risk whatsoever.



Sales Department


9/27/05 12:34PM
I acknowledged that my assumption regarding size was exactly that, and that I had no viable complaints about size... no need to restate that, but weight is often a sign of overall health and these animals' weights and lack of stored fat made me express that as a sign of concern as to their overall health. It was just a comment based on my never having dealt with Top Shelf before and I thought it was a service to you to let you know my thoughts based on the prior experiences I have had with other breeders. I know that I, as a seller of captive bred reptiles, appreciate feedback regarding the overall business experience especially where the health of an animal may be a concern.

I felt it in the best interest of both of us to let you know the specifics of their arrival and my impression of their overall condition. Having ordered snakes numerous times via Kingsnake as well as selling and shipping snakes myself, I had higher expectations of their condition based on your reputation. I also had higher expectations in regards to the temperature concerns based on your claims on your website regarding your level of integrity when it comes to not shipping in conditions that were unsatisfactory for the animal's well being. If you feel that the temperatures were safe with no heat pack based on your past experiences then I am forced to accept that. I would have handled it differently based on what I feel ideal conditions are for shipping.

Did you overlook my question regarding feeding history or schedule? I realize that including this information is not stated in your terms but could prove helpful to me in ensuring that these three animals thrive in my care.

Regards,
-Jason Northam

9/27/05 12:52PM
We apologize that they were shipped without heating elements, we felt that they were not required for your specific shipment but also show temperatures reached lower than “forecasted” as well so had we known of the drop we probably would have used a heating element. Again, our apologies.



Sales Department

9/27/05 2:25PM
Can you tell me what they were feeding on so I can maintain consistency?

9/27/05 2:26PM

But of course. They were taking live hoppers and were in the process of being switched to thawed rat pups. They may take the pups but if they are hesitant the hoppers will easily suffice until they are switched. Take care.



Sales Department


Email: [email protected]


9/27/05 2:35PM
I appreciate the response. I'm very concerned about their well-being and they look very thin. The het pied can't hold his head up, is thin, and is very limp with no muscle tone . The het hypo is much the same way. The het clown is active and has better body firmness than the other two. I will be surprised to see the pied and hypo be able to take live prey.

I do hope and expect them to come around but I need to make sure to make mention of my concerns. I trust in your reputation to make things right should I have a problem with these three snakes.

Regards,
-Jason Northam


9/28/05 8:35AM
Top Shelf Exotics:

The Het Ghost died during the night and weighed 43g at death. The Het Pied is currently 48g, hollow bellied and limp, but not dead yet. Please advise how you would like to remedy this situation and what you would like me to do with the corpse(s). I do not want two more unhealthy, underweight animals. If you have nothing healthy and at least 100g I would prefer a refund for the Het Ghost and Het Pied. The Het Clown weighs 99g, appears active and has much better body mass, at 99g. I am cautiously optimistic in his case.

Please Advise,
-Jason Northam

Here are three pictures of the Het Ghost this morning.. I also have pictures of the Het Pied.

9/28/05 8:44AM

We are sorry that the animals did so poorly during shipment and one has perished, please keep any dead specimen(s) on ice until told otherwise. Keep us updated on the heterozygous pied female as well and forward photos if and when she perishes. Your specimens were guaranteed and will be replaced. You can mail the paperwork for the deceased heterozygous ghost to the address below:



Top Shelf Exotics

812 French

Cheektowaga NY 14227



Keep us updated.



Sales Department

(here is a date I was mistaken about- the het pied held on for a week or so)

10/4/05 2:11PM

I wanted to update you on the condition of the '05 male het pied. I attempted to feed him on both f/t and live fuzzies and hoppers and he showed no interest in either eating or distancing himself from them. He makes virtually no attempts to move. I have kept him hydrated as much as I can. You should have received your paperwork back on the dead male het ghost by now.

10/5/05 9:16AM

May I ask how you are housing him?


10/5/05 9:27AM
He's currently in a small Critter Keeper with an Exo-Terra cave hide and a 3.5" diameter water bowl. I have a strip of 3" wide silicone rubber heat mat along a shelf set to 90° and the Critter Keepers are set with one end over the mat. Ambient in the room is 75 at night and 80-85 during the day. The overhead lights are turned on at 7:00am and off at 8:00pm.

10/5/05 9:32AM
Small Critter Keepers do not offer enough room to obtain a proper thermal gradient. Even medium or large Critter Keepers would not be suggested. Also, overhead lights or any lights for that matter are not needed.



Photograph this “setup” and forward it immediately.



Sales Department

10/5/05 9:49AM

The overhead lights are set for my convenience, not the animal's needs. I am at work currently but can take a picture for you tonight and forward it in the morning.
If you would rather, I can send the animal back tomorrow. The het clown is is currently in the same "setup" and doing well, taking f/t.

I am not getting a good feeling about our communication. I have kept snakes including Ball pythons for 15 years and I know what works for me. I had informed you that two out of the three animals were not in good shape when they arrived and the het ghost died within 24 hours. This is not a care issue, it is an issue of poor quality animals being sold. I would like nothing more than for all three of the animals purchased from you to thrive, but we are already down to two. I would like to know what you, Chris Johnson as Top Shelf Exotics will do to rectify this situation.


10/5/05 9:58AM

This is Glenn, Not Chris. As specified previously Chris has been out ill for quite some time, he’s in and out on occasion but responds to personal email at [email protected]. If directing correspondence to Chris please send it to his personal address.



The animals as stated are covered and I would rather not return an animal in questionable condition which would essentially ruin any chances that this animal may have to turn its ailment around by condemning it in transit. As stated previously the animal that passed will be replaced and your concern was voiced over the additional questionable specimen which will be replaced as well if it passes. We hope it improves of course but we will back our guarantee regardless and replace said animals to satisfaction. I am still a bit confused to how the animals fared so poorly in transit but we have since decided to release specimens a period of four to five weeks later than previously practiced to ensure safe transit. We did not have any issues last season but this season brought us two “DOA’s” in transit so we’re adjusting our policies accordingly. Thanks for keeping us updated.



Sales Department

Glenn,

I had been in contact with Chris after voicing my initial complaints and he instructed me to communicate updates to him, which is why my initial email from yesterday was sent to his email address. The reply I received today was from the [email protected] address which seems odd to me since Chris requested that I use his address.

I would rather not subject the het pied to shipping again either however I don't know that the initial shipping had much to do with the condition of the animals. Forty-three grams is very small for an animal that has been eating for numerous weeks (which is the weight the het ghost was received at) and 45 grams (which the het pied was received at) is an especially low weight for the length of this animal as well.

As for the subject of care, all new baby Ball pythons I receive are housed in the same manner and are moved to Sterilite tubs after I have had a chance to observe them, ensure they are eating, and gauge their overall well being.

Should I continue to update Chris at his address or use this one now as I am confused about which email Chris Johnson monitors.

At that point Chris became involved, or let me know he was involved.



10/10/05 9:40AM
Chris,

Unfortunately the '05 Het Pied Male died Saturday evening. I have him preserved along with the Ghost Male. I am sending the paperwork to the 812 French address as I did with the Ghost paperwork. I have pictures but left them at home. I will run home on lunch and send them this afternoon.

On a bright note, the Het Clown still seems to be doing well with normal feeding, defecating and activity.

What is the plan for replacements? How long do you want me to keep the two dead ones? I can ship them back if you need them.

Regards,

Jason Northam


10/10/05 12:56PM

Just keep them on ice until I say otherwise. I’ll need photos of the deceased and the paperwork sent back as well. I’m glad to hear the heterozygous clown is doing well. Talk to you soon.



C. Johnson


Hope this lends clarity..

-Jason Northam

 

[NorthamExotics]

Nic and Shrap

I have posted my experience along with my opinion and fears regarding transactions with TSE. Not once did I accuse anyone of anything but I don't believe I am wrong in voicing my concerns today, April 19th, 2006. I will be the FIRST one to post when and if my hets prove out. If you feel otherwise, you are entitled to do so but it was an accusatory inflammatory remark but rather a concern.

Let me pose it to yo uthis way: If a company misrepresents the condition of animals, can anyone be sure they do not misrepresent the genetics?

-Jason Northam

 

[jglass38]

I gotta say this brings up the question for me again that hasn't been answered:

Is TSE reselling other people's Ball Python morphs or are they actually breeding their own?

Also, has anyone proven out any TSE hets at this point in time?

I think these are pretty important questions that others might have as well.

 

[nicolai]

Wow!! You just proved TSE is a reputable and stand up company!! I will let your own words and post speak for itself!!!

9/27/05 12:15PM
We apologize that you assumed they would be larger but unfortunately we are not liable for customers assumptions.

As for the heat pack, when checking destination and departure temperatures a heatpack was not required. Live arrival was also guaranteed, you or the animals were at no risk whatsoever.

Sales Department

Honest and to the point!!!! they check both ends and felt packs werent necessary.


9/27/05 2:26PM
But of course. They were taking live hoppers and were in the process of being switched to thawed rat pups. They may take the pups but if they are hesitant the hoppers will easily suffice until they are switched. Take care.
Sales Department
Email: [email protected]

Had all the feeding info you requested.


COLOR=Navy]9/28/05 8:44AM
We are sorry that the animals did so poorly during shipment and one has perished, please keep any dead specimen(s) on ice until told otherwise. Keep us updated on the heterozygous pied female as well and forward photos if and when she perishes. Your specimens were guaranteed and will be replaced. You can mail the paperwork for the deceased heterozygous ghost to the address below:
Top Shelf Exotics
812 French
Cheektowaga NY 14227
Keep us updated.
Sales Department[/COLOR]

They told you they were indeed guaranteed and you had nothing to worry about concerning a financial loss, and were appologetic to you.

10/5/05 9:16AM
May I ask how you are housing him?

All sellers will ask this question

10/5/05 9:58AM
This is Glenn, Not Chris. As specified previously Chris has been out ill for quite some time, he’s in and out on occasion but responds to personal email at [email protected]. If directing correspondence to Chris please send it to his personal address.
The animals as stated are covered and I would rather not return an animal in questionable condition which would essentially ruin any chances that this animal may have to turn its ailment around by condemning it in transit. As stated previously the animal that passed will be replaced and your concern was voiced over the additional questionable specimen which will be replaced as well if it passes. We hope it improves of course but we will back our guarantee regardless and replace said animals to satisfaction. I am still a bit confused to how the animals fared so poorly in transit but we have since decided to release specimens a period of four to five weeks later than previously practiced to ensure safe transit. We did not have any issues last season but this season brought us two “DOA’s” in transit so we’re adjusting our policies accordingly. Thanks for keeping us updated.
Sales Department

Shows care towards the animal in not wanting it shipped again and also reiterates that any lost animal will be replaced!!

10/5/05 9:32AM small Critter Keepers do not offer enough room to obtain a proper thermal gradient. Even medium or large Critter Keepers would not be suggested. Also, overhead lights or any lights for that matter are not needed.
Photograph this “setup” and forward it immediately.

You put them in small critter carriers???? How do they regulate thier body temperature??

You were given replacement animals!! What am i missing.

 

[Gecko_Den]

Nicholas, I realize that you have a relationship with the TSE forums and likely count Chris as a friend. However, Is it your place to champion the defense for TSE? You admitted yourself upon your entry into this thread that you do not have inside information as to what is going on at TSE, yet you are acting as though it is your company that you are defending. If Glenn or whomever is now running TSE feels the need to defend themselves against statements here, then let them come forward and do so. At this point your cut and paste challenges to every post that you don't personally agree with is just adding fuel to the fire that is already raging out of control in this thread. Chris has come here when he is able and answered posts that contained questions to him, some posts he chose to ignore, you should respect that he didn't want to lend any credibility to those posters and engage them in a war of words and let him handle this thread in the manner of his choosing. After all, in the end it is his reputation at stake here not yours..... Just my 2 cents for what ever it's worth.

 

[NorthamExotics]

Nicolai....

A reputable company would not ship animals in the condition they did. A 43g ball python is a very small animal. The animal's well being should be first and foremost. I would have rather been one of the people complaining about slow shipments rather than get animals on the brink of death.

Being in the thermal process industry I can assure you that there was sufficient thermal gradient. A small critter keeper is approximately 10" long and 3" of the floor was over a 90° heater. With the critter keepers raised by their feet the actual floor of the critter keeper ends up around 85-87°F in the 3" section. Polycarbonate does not conduct heat well so the gradient is fairly quick. Again, this setup is only used to evaluate newly acquired animals. I use rack systems for permanent setups.

I appreciate your questioning of my husbandry techniques. Now it seems you are just trying to start issues with me because my experience reflects negatively on someone you have stuck up for.

-Jason Northam

 

[liquidleaf]

Hmm.. another strange thing, if the people currently running Top Shelf have used the excuse that FedEx is limiting the number of packages they pick up from TSE, which *may* be FedEx's right to prevent having to send multiple trucks to pick up from a business...

Now that their address was posted, I know where TSE's mailing address is. A relative used to live only a few blocks away from that address. That location is 20 minutes or less from the local FedEx airport hub. If they are being prevented from having all their daily packages picked up, seems like they could easily drive some of their overflow packages over to the airport. Honestly, it is not far at all. Granted, fitting a lot of packages into a passenger vehicle probably wouldn't work well, but if I were prevented from sending out all the packages necessary on a given day and that far backlogged, I'd take as many as possible over to FedEx to help keep customer satisfaction positive....

 

[nicolai]

Sam if you check my post history which is available to any and all members you will see that i have a history of speaking my mind when i see things being said of this manner where anyone is concerned not just TSE.

People should not make accusations in public they can not back up or prove.. PERIOD!!! If you like i can post or email or pm you dozens of instances on the BOI where people have made accusations and such towards people and only retracted them or were proven wrong when other members of the BOI stepped up to the plate and made them accountable for their statements.

Jason - the animals did not die from being kept in a critter carrier for that period of time i am sure. But i have also kept snakes for 20+ years and would never house a ball python in one even temporarily due to the fact that they have no room to thermoregulate their temperatures in such a confined space. 10" is a small area you do have to admit, the minimum is 1 1/2 times the length of the snake, how long is a baby ball Python?? 10 -14 ".

Even if Chris did contact me to stop posting on this thread I may or may not be obliged to do so as I feel i need to say what needs to be said no matter who or what it concerns. I have the right to post on the BOI just like every other paying member and I make sure my posts are intelligent, factual and on topic. How many accusations and statements have you seen on this thread where the poster did so without providing evidence to prove what they say, how many contained insults, how many questioned animals genetics without any proof? This is why people need to speak up and put the burden of proof on the people making the statements.

 

[Gecko_Den]

Sam if you check my post history which is available to any and all members you will see that i have a history of speaking my mind when i see things being said of this manner where anyone is concerned not just TSE.

People should not make accusations in public they can not back up or prove.. PERIOD!!! If you like i can post or email or pm you dozens of instances on the BOI where people have made accusations and such towards people and only retracted them or were proven wrong when other members of the BOI stepped up to the plate and made them accountable for their statements.

Jason - the animals did not die from being kept in a critter carrier for that period of time i am sure. But i have also kept snakes for 20+ years and would never house a ball python in one even temporarily due to the fact that they have no room to thermoregulate their temperatures in such a confined space. 10" is a small area you do have to admit, the minimum is 1 1/2 times the length of the snake, how long is a baby ball Python?? 10 -14 ".

Even if Chris did contact me to stop posting on this thread I may or may not be obliged to do so as I feel i need to say what needs to be said no matter who or what it concerns. I have the right to post on the BOI just like every other paying member and I make sure my posts are intelligent, factual and on topic. How many accusations and statements have you seen on this thread where the poster did so without providing evidence to prove what they say, how many contained insults, how many questioned animals genetics without any proof? This is why people need to speak up and put the burden of proof on the people making the statements.

Nicholas, you are well with in your rights to post whatever you feel the need to post. It isn't my intent to argue with you about this thread. I was merely giving you my impression as an outside viewer, that perhaps you have taken on a role as defender based on a personal connection, not based on facts that you may or may not have.

You state

"If you like i can post or email or pm you dozens of instances on the BOI where people have made accusations and such towards people and only retracted them or were proven wrong when other members of the BOI stepped up to the plate and made them accountable for their statements."

Yes you probably can, I could also point you to many threads where people defended the accused, not based on specific information pertaining to the thread, but based on friendship, only to look the fool when they were proven wrong as more info was released. I point to the unfortunate incident involving Bill Leverton and the people that defended him as an example of what I am talking about.

Jason posted HIS experience with TSE, you attacked his post and asked for proof, he disclosed all e-mails, yet still you felt the need to disect his post and challenge his statements and experiences with YOUR interpretation of each e-mail. Why do you have more right to state "how you feel" than someone who actually had a transaction with TSE that they weren't happy with? All I am saying is you seem to be taking every thread that doesn't praise TSE as some sort of personal attack and going immediatly on the defensive.
It is your right to do so, but I don't see as how you are helping matters, again just my opinion which as you said we are all entitled to...

 

[NorthamExotics]

Nic...

Nicolai- I would be hard pressed to think of many people who keep their snakes in enclosures 1.5x the length of their bodies. Consider large scale breeders using rack systems for adult ball pythons, often in 34-42" tubs. Surely these snakes are longer than 23-28". My juvenile ball pythons are kept in Sterilite rack systems using 28qt tubs which affords them more room but from an observation standpoint on newly acquired animals, especially ones I have reason to question the health of after preliminary inspections, the critter keepers work well. I think we can all agree that the demise of these snakes was in no way a husbandry issue (these snakes were barely the length of the enclosure as it was).

As stated I feel confident in my observation setup.

In regards to my typing whilst I was thinking in reference to the genetics in question, I felt it a point of order to imply that this could cast a shadow of doubt over the entire structure and business practices. Buying hets is a risky business when dealing with someone you don't know and I relied on the BOI in the first place in making a decision to buy from TSE. I was disappointed in the transaction (and in the accuracy of the BOI to some extent) and not only is it my right to comment (as it is yours to debate) but I feel that it is my responsibility as a responsible member of the herp community to share any information that resulted from my dealings. I have had numerous other transactions with people across the internet, some of which I found info on the BOI about. I have posted positive information as it was warranted and I have never entered into any type of flaming or name calling.

As I said when my hets from TSE either prove out or don't I will readdress the topic on the BOI. I would like nothing more than to come here and brag about new morph hatchlings.

-Jason Northam

 

[nicolai]

I don't have more of a right then anyone else to say how i feel, neither does my opinion outweigh anyone Else's. People have the freedom to criticize me or question anything I say and I encourage them to do so.
I did not attack his post i merely pointed out the obvious concerning TSE's willingness to replace any animal that the customer lost. which seemed to be lost in his post.
We will just have to agree to disagree on this matter as you are stating how you would do things and I a doing things as i feel i should.
You are also right about some people in the past being the fool in the end, I was one of them (don't you remember the Adam Q.and Pete thread on shipping the hots). I had egg all over my face on that one and deserved it, But i am man enough to admit when i am wrong and apologize to those that i may have wronged in doing so. One thing I have NEVER done though is accuse people of things unless I had proof of it which is what the BOI is all about. This is peoples lives and livelihoods that are being discussed on the BOI and what happens and is said here is extremely important in the publics eyes. This is a permanent record which need to be kept factual.

 

[nicolai]

Nicolai- I I think we can all agree that the demise of these snakes was in no way a husbandry issue (these snakes were barely the length of the enclosure as it was).

Agreed

As I said when my hets from TSE either prove out or don't I will readdress the topic on the BOI. I would like nothing more than to come here and brag about new morph hatchlings.

-Jason Northam

I hope for your sake and TSE's they indeed do prove out. And if they do maybe you will sell me one cheap!!!!