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Top Shelf Exotics (Inquiry)

Well, what will be the next excuse? Maybe, It is way to hot to ship now. All these customers will need to wait until fall, when the temperatures get cooler. It is almost summer now.

Another thing. Some people here are still saying that these are employees of Chris's. This is not so, they are the new owners/partners. Chris stated earlier, any complaints should be directed to these new guys. He has nothing to do with it, and has not for months. I might add, no one seems to know who they are. IMHO, This is very poor business practice at best.
 
That does not

absolve Chris of any liability. Thats allot of nonsense. If he was the owner, and he no longer is affiliated with Top Shelf, then he should have dissolved the business, or get some proof of change of ownership showing when this actually occurred. Its very convenient and self serving to say that he is no longer involved. Regardless of the fact that he may be ill or incapacitated from working. Their are legal responsibilites that Chris may be obligated in dealing with.

If people sent money in advance , in good faith without knowing that Chris , (who was the motivating force of the business) is no longer part of that business, then theirs a real problem here. Secondly, until Chris is capable of showing some legal proof that he is no longer involved in the day to day running of that operation, I would certainly include his name on my summons.

I can clearly see that this business is not a corp. but a company where each participant may be legally responsible personally. So Chris nor any of the other participants are immune from litigation.
 
varnyard said:
Another thing. Some people here are still saying that these are employees of Chris's. This is not so, they are the new owners/partners. Chris stated earlier, any complaints should be directed to these new guys. He has nothing to do with it, and has not for months. I might add, no one seems to know who they are. IMHO, This is very poor business practice at best.
Click to expand...
As one that mentioned employees, I will state that much of my post reflected on issues past...as in late 04-late 05 - And they were employees, as far as I know/knew Yes, Chris stated that he removed himself from operations in late October, and he will not be considering returning to operations until there is improvement in his health - that leads me to think the avenue for his return is there. I also believe that I have read those names in the past, and that one of them was one of the people I dealt with - which means they are not new; though they may, or may not, be in more responsible positions. New owners? I doubt it, since Chris mentioned returning. Partners? Possibly. Business managers. Again, possibly...but this is conjecture. I doubt they will come here to sort it out. And Chris has stated that it isn't his concern...and I pretty much agree that he shouldn't get stressed about it - his focus is elsewhere.
 
hhmoore said:
Chris has stated that it isn't his concern...and I pretty much agree that he shouldn't get stressed about it - his focus is elsewhere.
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I guess I made the big ASSumption that Chris OFFICIALLY removed himself from operations...but depending on the organization of the business, you are right, Jerry, he may still have legal responsibility.
 
hhmoore said:
As one that mentioned employees, I will state that much of my post reflected on issues past...as in late 04-late 05 - And they were employees, as far as I know/knew Yes, Chris stated that he removed himself from operations in late October, and he will not be considering returning to operations until there is improvement in his health - that leads me to think the avenue for his return is there. I also believe that I have read those names in the past, and that one of them was one of the people I dealt with - which means they are not new; though they may, or may not, be in more responsible positions. New owners? I doubt it, since Chris mentioned returning. Partners? Possibly. Business managers. Again, possibly...but this is conjecture. I doubt they will come here to sort it out. And Chris has stated that it isn't his concern...and I pretty much agree that he shouldn't get stressed about it - his focus is elsewhere.
Click to expand...

May be you are right. But with comments like:

Chris@TSE: I have absolutely no place in this matter any longer and have not for quite some time.
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Sure looks like bad business to me. Chris knowing that someone else is now running TSE, but failed to share this infomation until after the funds were in his pocket.

Chris@TSE: Simply put I am more concerned with becoming well than to listen to people blame me for transactions I had no part in.
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Does that include collecting funds?

Chris: Lets make this very simple for you, you probably know more about what is going on than I do. I currently spend between 18 and 20 hours a day in bed. I rarely am up to checking correspondence, and my reputation at this poitn is of little concern as I am uncertain if I will even be returning at this point. If you have a problem with your transaction I suggest you take it up with Patrick and Glenn whom you have been dealing with all along.
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That sounds like Patrick and Glenn (That no one Knows) is now over TSE. Don't it? Harald, to me it sounds like there is a good chance he will not be returning to TSE.
 
This comes directly from the TSE TOS.

We process and ship all orders, after payment in full is received, within one to three business days unless specified.
 
Bill & Amy said:
This comes directly from the TSE TOS.

We process and ship all orders, after payment in full is received, within one to three business days unless specified.
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It really is sad to see someone who had such a good rep go down in flames. Again, I am so sorry that Chris is sick but there needed to be some contingency plans and apparently the two guys running things are not stepping up.
 
I also looked through the website and can find no names of owners/partners/employees anywhere to be found. There ia a couple of email addresses and a phone number. Has anyone called this number? 1-877-REPT-1-LE
 
I did a NY corporation search for Top Shelf Exotics and found nothing. The Who Is is private with just the 877 # and buffalo NY shown. No names.
 
Top Shelf may not be incorporated. He may be running it as a proprietorship, a Doing-Business-As, or partnership, and that may not turn up on a corporation search.
 
liquidleaf said:
Top Shelf may not be incorporated. He may be running it as a proprietorship, a Doing-Business-As, or partnership, and that may not turn up on a corporation search.
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True enough. I figured it was worth a look.
 
I found this posted in their forum section.

Business Issues Stay off forums.
Please keep all business related questions and comments off of the forums. Those who assume the forums are viewed by TSE sales staff on a regular basis will assume wrong. TSE does not conduct business through these forums. All business related questions and comments will be deleted when reported by moderation staff. Those who wish to ignore this notice will be removed from the forums. Business related material is to be directed to DIRECTLY to the sales staff so they may assist you promptly. Contact information may be found at http://topshelfexotic.com/contact.htm

But yet they have a cosumer report section, must be if you have problems with other companies.
 
Well maybe Nikolai who appears to run the forums there (and made that post) and is a member here will choose to get involved in this conversation. He probably knows more than any of us do and maybe could shed some light
 
Since my name has now been thrown into the mix i will respond to this thread. I have been a Moderator on TSE almost since its inception and have always been proud to do so. I have had multiple business dealings with TSE as well and all have come out perfectly. I have also facilitated and been the middle man in several as well and they have all turned out well except for one where a customer wasn't happy as the result of an imported animal that died after he had received it but was not replaced because it was not covered by the warranty as it was an imported animal and was stated in the TOS.
I know that Chris has been out for quite a while due to his illness/injury and most likely will be out indefinitely until he decides whether or not to re-enter the business again.
I am in no way involved in the business side of TSE and am not privy to any personal or business information that may indeed help in any way on this thread. I have notified TSE (other then Chris) of the thread in case they would like to respond to it.
The post above about the forums is true. TSE forums is a separate entity put on the web by Chris for the enjoyment of reptile enthusiasts and the like and has nothing to do with the business itself as no one on the sales staff checks it or regulates it on a regular basis other then to advertise for TSE on it. TSE is a free forum for all that want to join and I encourage anyone to join if they wish to do so.
I do know that last year a lot of people had to wait a considerable time in the spring to receive their orders but they did all receive them when they got caught up. I also notice that there hasn't been one post here where the complaintant has been scammed or ripped of in any way as of yet but rather have only been forced to wait on their animals.
I would say from a history point of view that i would take them at the word and imagine they will get the animals out to all their customers.
Any other business related or personal related questions about Chris or TSE should be asked of them not myself as I will not have any answers.
 
Nick,

Thanks for providing input from your side so we all know where you stand and what your involvement is. I didn't mean to call you out but it did appear that you and Chris has a relationship of some sort.
 
Bill & Amy said:
But yet they have a cosumer report section, must be if you have problems with other companies.
Click to expand...


I did find this remark a bit out of line though. Fauna is a separate entity from Rich's other business isn't it. Do any of you ask Rich about business things (prices,shipping, returns) about his other business through these forums. No, you handle it through his other site or directly through the business as fauna is a separate entity. Would you think fauna is a bad place if you had a bad dealing with him on corn snakes?
The consumer reports section is just that. A place where you can say something about business dealing. Rich doesn't allow anyone to bad mouth him or his business on this site so why would it be different on TSE, Its only proper ettiquite when your on someone elses site and would be disrespectul to to talk trash on someone in thier own house.
 
Nicolai, if you think for one moment that Rich would delete posts or thread's concerning his business on the BOI, im almost 100% sure your wrong. Rich doesnt allow anyone to be out of the eye of scrutiny that IS the BOI, so what makes you think he would cut himself out of the picture? That would be biased and as far as i've seen Rich is not the kinda guy to try and hide from anything. If by some off the wall, miracle chance someone had a bad experience with Rich, he wouldn't stop them from posting about it here. At least thats my opinion, from how i perceive Rich as a business man.

If Rich did what TSE is doing now, he'd have every right to be scrutinized. As TSE is now.
 
nicolai said:
I did find this remark a bit out of line though. Fauna is a separate entity from Rich's other business isn't it. Do any of you ask Rich about business things (prices,shipping, returns) about his other business through these forums. No, you handle it through his other site or directly through the business as fauna is a separate entity. Would you think fauna is a bad place if you had a bad dealing with him on corn snakes?
The consumer reports section is just that. A place where you can say something about business dealing. Rich doesn't allow anyone to bad mouth him or his business on this site so why would it be different on TSE, Its only proper ettiquite when your on someone elses site and would be disrespectul to to talk trash on someone in thier own house.
Click to expand...

If people would ask these questions on Fauna, do you think they would be removed? They might go unanswered or directed to where they could be answered. If you have a consumer reports section then you should expect that anyone that has had bad dealings with that business to post their complaints there. If you delete those posts because they are against TSE, then how are they seperate entities? From what I have seen of Rich is that he confronts and answers the questions or problems, we may not like the answer, but he will answer.
 
Mr. Altizer...

You can scrutinize all you want. I have seen many instances and can quote some if you would like me to do so where rich stated he will not allow people to talk about him on his own site. JimO got ousted for running his mouth about Rich didn't he? which was only right because this is Rich's site and wasn't proper etiquette for JimO to do so..
I was pointing out the separation of the TSE forums and Topshelfexotics.com, and never said you or anyone else could say anything you want. By all means state anything you want, this is the BOI and what it is for. Just try and keep the facts straight and the sarcasm out because that is what i am doing. I came here to state facts and have done so.
Go ahead and scrutinize TSE now and remember the two entities are just that, different entities. I have seen a lot of things here on the BOI and have learned its best to stick to the facts and leave sarcasm, lies, speculation and other stuff out because it will come back to haunt you in the end.
 
nicolai said:
I also notice that there hasn't been one post here where the complaintant has been scammed or ripped of in any way as of yet but rather have only been forced to wait on their animals.
Click to expand...
Paying for an animal in November, still not shipped, purchaser no longer wants the animal, because waiting that long for no legitimate reason, is garbage, wants a refund (and rightfully so), but they won't give it......"it's against their TOS"...that is a scam. :toiletcla
As far as this site vs TSE's. Yes, you can ask about shipping, pricing, business matters about Rich's business if you want, and you can also post on the BOI-good guy or bad guy, about Rich's business. The suspensions, were due to they were talking about Rich [personally] and the way he runs the site, not about his business.
 
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