Top Shelf Exotics (Inquiry)

[KNOBTAIL]

I would like to stick to the facts

as well. I can safely assume that Top Shelf is a business, not a corp. which makes anyone of the principles and all the principles liable for any monetary loss. Basically: personally liable for any financial obligations. The fact that Chris may have decided to take an indefinite sick leave, is no excuse for any financial woes that Top Shelf may encounter. Also, proof of continued ownership can easily be determined by who signs the check, what bank they are affiliated with, and whose terminal obligation is it for the charge cards ( including paypal) This will tell the story.


It becomes very self serving to distance oneself from a failing operation. But let us be optimistic. If the sellers were smart, they would refund those monies that they are holding onto and eliminate the bad press in order to salvage whatever little credibility they as well as Chris has in Top Shelf.

 

[nicolai]

If people would ask these questions on Fauna, do you think they would be removed? They might go unanswered or directed to where they could be answered..

For one I dont have an answer to your question because i know of no instance where anyone had a complaint on one of rich's other business and was brought here. So there is no precidence to go by.

If you have a consumer reports section then you should expect that anyone that has had bad dealings with that business to post their complaints there.

As i am the modeator there and am pretty much given a free hand to regulate what goes on there I do what i feel is in the sites best interest at all times. I do believe badmouthing TSE.com on the forums is in bad taste and remove such posts accordingly. So maybe I am a bad guy here too in your eyes for not allowing something like that to happen there, but i do what i think is the right thing to do.

From what I have seen of Rich is that he confronts and answers the questions or problems, we may not like the answer, but he will answer..

Yes he does confront any issues about this site and answers them accordingly which i will do as well at the TSE forums with anything involving the forums there.

 

[HerpLuver]

Mr. Bonn (since we've resorted to formalities) im sorry you found sarcasm in my post, and after reading it myself i felt it too. It wasnt meant that way, as i did state though i would be almost 100% sure. It's my opinion of how i think Rich would handle things.

We all know what they say about opinions...

 

[nicolai]

No problem Chris, maybe i am just to emotional right now and am taking things a little bit too much to heart. I just hope everything is straightened out in the end and everyone comes out happy one way or another. We as a reptile family and community always hate to see another one of the good guys questioned about thier business dealings and such and wish it to come out for the best as there are too many bad guys out there now.

 

[Cat_72]

As far as the fact that TSE's TOS states shipping will be in 1-3 days, this is what I received from them in an email acknowledging my purchase:

Thank you for your recent purchase, this message is to confirm the receipt of your payment. Once weather improves to allow safe live delivery you will be contacted to arrange delivery. In the mean-time we ask that you please provide us with all pertinent details such as shipping address, day and night contact telephone numbers, and anything else you may feel will assist us in processing your order. We will be sure to contact you before shipping your order to ensure a member of your household or business is present to sign for your delivery, a requirement for such a delivery. We also recommend that all customers check with FedEx to ensure that no “signature waivers” are on file for the place of delivery, such a waiver will void any and all guarantees even if the parcel is signed for. Such a waiver will not allow confirmation of said signature so it is quite important that you check this prior to delivery. We thank you for your patience, we’ll contact you once conditions become optimal for your shipment. Take care!

It would have been nice to know they were going to hold the purchase for possibly several months BEFORE I sent them my money, but to a certain extent (being from the frozen tundra of Iowa) I can understand not wanting to make shipments in the dead of winter. The dead of winter is long past.

It also would have been nice to know that I would be dealing with someone other than Chris. I based my purchase on CHRIS'S reputation, and the fact that I have purchased from CHRIS before.

I can't help but think that if you are THAT backlogged, it would make sense to stop advertising for more sales (time to post Kindsnake ads, but not answer emails?) and just get caught up on the sales you have already made.

I don't know.....I am truly sorry Chris is ill, but if the business was to keep running without him, there were a whole lot of things that could and should have been done MUCH differently. I could be doing a lot better things with the money I sent than having to wait and wonder.

 

[ravensgait]

You have to wonder if this thread were about some other business- What would Chris IE TSE say here about all this?? Yet this thread is about him and his business and he is sick?? OK but I know if I were sick and this were about my Business I'd either drag myself to the computer or have one of my Partners and or employees setting the record straight and taking care of all these complaints.Yet TSE is Mum on this subject other than the owner saying he has nothing to do with any of this(Comment reminds me of some energy company in Texas and we know how that went)

Now we hear that this happened last year(long delays in shipping) but no one posted much about it. Would have been nice if someone would have posted about it but then I understand why some didn't want too IE get blasted here by Chris and his buds.

Without any word from TSE no one will know what is going on here(But it sure don't look good) Randy

 

[v2rherp]

wow long thread.. just curious, has anyone proved out hets from TSE? not trying to start anything just curious.

vaughn

 

[tejasranger]

wow long thread.. just curious, has anyone proved out hets from TSE? not trying to start anything just curious.

vaughn

Very good question, I would like to hear from someone as well?

 

[jasballs]

wow long thread.. just curious, has anyone proved out hets from TSE? not trying to start anything just curious.

vaughn

Vaughn, I have been wondering that for the last 2 years!

 

[jglass38]

Vaughn, I have been wondering that for the last 2 years!

Well now that everyone else has brought it up, I am wondering this too. I have heard talk that TSE wholesales/resells. When I questioned them recently (I almost made a purchase of an '05 het albino trio) this is how it went (ignore the part about CB, I must have been tired):

me: Some questions for you on the 100% het albino trios. Are the snakes all 05s? Were they CB? If not bred at TSE were they acquired from a reputable breeder? How are genetics verified? Thanks in advance!

glen: Of course they are captive bred. There is no such thing as an imported or wild caught het albino specimen. Of course it is possible but in order to be considered a het specimen it must be a specimen produced in captivity from an observed genetic pairing. Remaining specimens are 05’s and all specimens ship with individually signed photographic documents stating genetics. At this time we have enough specimens in stock to fill one final trio order. If not making an immediate purchase we suggest checking back before placing an order in the future to see if they are still available. We do not anticipate the few females remaining to last very long. We hope you have a pleasant day, thanks for contacting Top Shelf Exotics.Take care.

me: My biggest question was if you dont produce them, how can you be sure that they are 100%? Thanks Glenn! (I ASKED THIS QUESTION BECAUSE OF THE RUMORS I HAD HEARD)

glen: We never stated we did not produce them. We do not sell other peoples bp morphs. Take care


In Glen's defense, he was quick to email me back multiple times. I am not sure what to think at this point.

 

[Fedawg]

glen: Of course they are captive bred. There is no such thing as an imported or wild caught het albino specimen. Of course it is possible but in order to be considered a het specimen it must be a specimen produced in captivity from an observed genetic pairing.

If you import a adult gravid female Albino(has happened many times) , and lays a clutch , eggs hatch . and all the babies look normal. Wouldn't you call them hets??? I would......

Derek Federico

 

[jglass38]

If you import a adult gravid female Albino(has happened many times) , and lays a clutch , eggs hatch . and all the babies look normal. Wouldn't you call them hets??? I would......

Derek Federico

Umm..yeah! Of course I wanted to ask all questions possible and yes it is possible. So I'm not as stupid as I thought I was when I thought...Exactly..

 

[Greg Riso]

Payment Method?

Without getting into what's going on with TSE or Chris I have the following question for Bob England. Regardless of the fact that TSE's TOS says money cannot be refunded, why can't you just dispute the charge on your credit card, paypal payment, or what have you, since you HAVE NOT RECEIVED WHAT YOU PAID FOR? I should think you have every right to have any payment you've made reversed. Their TOS don't mean squat in the real world where people are supposed to get a product or service for monies paid. I'm sure NY consumer protection laws supercede TSE TOS.
You've gone the BOI route but if you are not assured by TSE that your animals will be shipped out ASAP, I'd start taking your case to another level if you haven't already. What date is the most recent update you've received concerning the status of your shipment?

 

[Chameleon Company]

I do not know Chris personally.

We have communicated at times, and he has been a customer of mine. Most of my opinions of him have been drawn from what I have read here, of him and by him, in the past.

As to the concerns about clear communications, timely shipments, excuses and hiding behind "extended" TOS claims rather than issue a refund, none of it sounds good, and there are no excuses for this poor service. I cannot point to a reason for optimism, as others have also indicated. I would hope that they are able to fix your specific situation. One thing that my instincts tell me with more certainty than I wish I could claim is that whatever the reason, it is not because they have been "too busy". That dog won't hunt.

Chris valued his reputation mightily. While some thought him at times brash, he was conscientious and trustworthy. That his current situation has compelled him to be in a situation where he had to let go of so much that he worked so long for, and now accept priorities in a way none of us envy, is a small tragedy in itself. Several big things unraveling all at once. I wish Chris godspeed in his recovery, and hope that he can get things back to where he would desperately want them if he were healthy.

Bob, I have no advice to offer, except to keep trying. I can guarantee that Chris does not want things to be as they are now. On a side note to all, if you pray, throw a thought Chris' way.

 

[Junkyard]

This is a sad thread on TSE. At this point, I am happy I did not purchase from them when I had the chance to and I almost did. The lack of communication from them up to not shipping out orders, yet still taking money, I would have been here long ago with an ADHD episode. TSE, you need to prioritize things and get it together first before continuing the business.

The excuse of having to many orders is a bunch of fooey. I know of a company that owns two stores the size of port-a-pottys and they are probably the busiest reptile business out there. They do not make excuses of being over whelmed with orders. TSE, you need to take a few management courses before you except any more money for orders you are not going to fulfill in 1-3 days(per your TOS) from purchase.

If you refuse to ship during witner, maybe you should not be selling animals during that time.

Chris, get well. If you were the one who was in contact with Randy with his purchase, then it is your problem to deal with alongside the current management.

 

[The BoidSmith]

----- Original Message -----
From: Top Shelf Exotics
To: 'Alvaro Garcia'
Sent: Saturday, October 15, 2005 11:45 PM
Subject: RE: Black blood female

Yes, we have female black bloods available as of this message. Take care.

Glenn

Eleven days later we received the following:

----- Original Message -----
From: Top Shelf Exotics
To: [email protected]
Sent: Wednesday, October 26, 2005 5:03 AM
Subject: Shipment

Shipping Department of Top Shelf Exotics sent Dan Garcia a Priority Overnight Package.

This shipment is scheduled to be sent on 26OCT05.

The tracking number(s) are: 792563365335

To track this shipment online click on the following link:
https://www.fedex.com/Tracking?trac...clienttype=fsm&language=english&cntry_code=us

I’m not sure when all this started but on as you can tell it took only 11 days from the initial inquiry, selection process to the actual shipment. Chris himself was responsible for choosing the animal and sending the pictures. At that point in time I couldn't be happier with their service as they took the time to sex through all the bloods to find the last female available. There’s no doubt something seemed happened after that.

 

[Dennis Hultman]

I’m not going to try and make excuses here for Chris or TSE and I hope my statements will not be taken as such. I’m disappointment in the statement Chris has made in regards to his responsibility here. As bad as it sounds, I hope he is extremely sick and bed ridden, which is why he has chosen to reply that he has no responsibility in this matter.

If I were in Bob’s shoes I would be extremely upset at the way this has come about and probably be here posting, if I thought I was getting the shaft.

Now, I don’t know what happened last year but I did read every thread pertaining to Chris and the two complaints about unanswered emails is all there is in the record here. The two people complaining later decided to make purchases and made good guy reports for TSE and Chris. Some posting on this thread now, say there was problems last year but reported that the transactions went flawless without one single problem.

Here is where I’m going to go against the grain here. As on KS thread before it was deleted and here people have started to drop in with this bull.

After reading this inquiry unfortunately I would have to scream con-artist

Chris can be somewhat forthright no doubt, but a con-artist? The same guy who has donated his time, funds, resources and animals to help several people that have been devastated by tragedies within our community and elsewhere.

Not one single “bad guy thread” was accusing him of theft but bad communication beforehand and multiple upon multiple good guy reports. I’m not prepared to call Chris a thief.

The good guy posts and his high trader rating doesn’t negate his responsibilities here but if he is truly incapacitated he shouldn’t be written-off the way this thread is going. I’m hoping he was a little delusional when he made his post about having no responsibility.

Chris needs to get well and return to this thread and refund the people that desire it and/or ship their animals ASAP.

I viewed the thread on KS again before it was deleted and got a kick out of that post about it being too cliquey here for it to be fair. I think the BOI has proven time and time again that no matter your reputation the situation will be examined and the facts will come out.
All of us seem to be in agreement that Bob is due satisfaction and everyone else waiting for their animals or funds.

I fully expect them (TSE and/or Chris) to provide the correct animals including year of animal paid for to every single customer that has purchased from them. Chris should be held responsible for those transactions that have occurred while he still has ownership of his company Period! If he has transferred ownership he needs to provide proof of the date of transfer if he is going to absolve himself from liability.

I’m not going to cut him slack on trying to get out of doing what’s right but
I do believe that Chris will make things right. I don’t want to see another “Good Guy” go down this road but if I'm wrong, I will not put blinders on and ignore the facts, if the situation isn't corrected.

 

[tejasranger]

Contacted today by TSE

Sales @ TSE (Pat or Glenn) contacted me today asking for shipping information. Delivery is scheduled for Thursday. Let's see if this happens. I will be sure and post the outcome, Thurs. evening. Thanks for your support.
Sincerely, Bob England

 

[Lucille]

Sales @ TSE (Pat or Glenn) contacted me today asking for shipping information. Delivery is scheduled for Thursday. Let's see if this happens. I will be sure and post the outcome, Thurs. evening. Thanks for your support.
Sincerely, Bob England

Bob,
I hope for the best for you. And I admire that you were patient, but then took a stand when that needed to be done to get the critters you paid for.
I wonder about all the rest of the people who are not so verbal, what will happen to them?
The BOI has proven itself time and time again as a way to publicize transactions either good or bad and give the rest of us an idea of how a particular company measures up.
Personally, if I have to wait and wait and wait and then get on a board and air my woes just to have the privilege of buying a critter, I'd just as soon go someplace else.
I hope that your case is an abberation and that future transactions by the now ChrislessTSE will be handled promptly and smoothly, time will tell.

 

[jglass38]

Sales @ TSE (Pat or Glenn) contacted me today asking for shipping information. Delivery is scheduled for Thursday. Let's see if this happens. I will be sure and post the outcome, Thurs. evening. Thanks for your support.
Sincerely, Bob England

Bob,

Hope it works out for you and you get what you expected! Good luck..

Jamie