Top Shelf Exotics (Inquiry)

[Cat_72]

Well , very few people here have even recieved a product from TSE so that whole NY law thing is void.

Exactly. It says NOTHING about someone taking your money and giving nothing in return.

 

[Bill & Amy]

I dont have an animal on hold with them....But i think its about time that people waiting for animals on here just get legal advice and stick it to TSE.

Nicolai. The whole NY law thing you posted about refunds and who is entitled and who is not , is not really relevant here for the most part. That law says if someone RECIEVES a product and it is defective or one is dissatidfied or so on , that there is no guaranteed refund for some circumstances. Someone correct me if im wrong.

Well , very few people here have even recieved a product from TSE so that whole NY law thing is void.

I would be getting the police involved if it was me waiting on an animal , or some other legal recourse, this is total BS.

Plus their TOS might fall into the written contract clause.

 

[Cat_72]

That's what I figured, Bill.

I believe that the person waiting since November (sorry, forgot the name) had to agree to certain questions from the TOS directly in an email...I would call that a written contract.

 

[repfriend]

Many of the "available" pages on TSE haven't been updated since October 2005 !!!

Yet all those animals have a "buy now" button next to them.

So I guess they always have those animals on hand no matter what ? Some of those are very specific, like a certain bloodline bearded dragons, certain morphs of burmese, certain Ball Pythons.

Strange.

 

[Chameleon Company]

Shanti,

I think the question of hets is unnecessary and harmful at this point in time. No one has had reason to doubt in the past...and unless they confirm snakes are coming from outside sources, there's no reason to doubt now. Not ONE person has stated their het didn't prove out...all you've got is a bunch of speculation. When that road comes, I'm sure we'll pass it. For now, I'd love to see it put to rest unless someone actually has a reason (and some proof) to believe their het is not het at all.

With regard to the sections of your post which I highlighted, I believe that most posters here feel that there is reason to doubt now. If I was sitting on a few hets from TSE, I would be quite the "doubting Thomas" looking at them, and muttered more than a few expletives at this point.

As for NY Law, I believe in every case the deals are in writing, as the ads existed and product represented in writing, there's written record of transactions and emails, and the TOS of TSE are also in writing (get them pasted now, if you haven't !). Its not a "he said - she said" deal by any means. Get real legal advice at this point, as the squeaky wheel gets the oil, and you need to squeak loudly and quickly before the oil can runs dry. Waiting for a het to prove out may be similar to a position of being left "holding the bag", and I would refuse delivery of anything sent at his point, or at least realize that you are putting any legal claim on the back-burner once you do accept delivery.

 

[Lucille]

Here we go again, who said anything about anyone here have that responsibilty lucille? Credentials wasn't the point lucille, other info people could use to contact them is. Wasting efforts isnt the point lucille - finding out whos running TSE and thier info is. It wasn't a red herring lucille' it was a salmon.

Sorry, I disagree. I think that it is an intentional red herring.

At this point, people have said here that they have been waiting for months and receiving sub par snakes or no snakes at all. There is NO reason to prolong this lack of service, the company knows full well that if money comes in, either products or a notification of a problem needs to go out.
If I were looking for info, it would be the address to serve papers. It's long past chat time.

 

[Fedawg]

As for NY Law, I believe in every case the deals are in writing, as the ads existed and product represented in writing, there's written record of transactions and emails, and the TOS of TSE are also in writing (get them pasted now, if you haven't !).

I agree with Jim. Get TSE's TOS posted NOW!!!!! if you hope to use it in any fututre legal recourse. You never know what they will try to pull next......

 

[Cat_72]

Bobby (Varnyard) posted them several pages back......

 

[Junkyard]

From the Good Guy Certificate Forum(Bold and italics by me)

Well, this is where this section comes in. This is a proactive method for people to know the good guys to deal with by them having a certification medallion displayed on their website that indicates them being in good standing with the members of this site in relation to how they do business. This is basically a "BOI Lite", in that a person can ONLY vote on a poll indicating that person or business is being a "Good Guy" or "Bad Guy". Plus anyone can also view the "Trader's Ratings" for that person or business as well, and active customers can post their experiences for a quick thumbnail sketch of that business without going into long drawn out discussions that some threads can run on as over time

Quite simply, any business or person applying to take part in this program has to agree to do "good business". This is something that is subject to interpretation, but in it's most simplest form, simply means to treat your customers well and in a manner that will speak highly of the way you do business. This will be reflected in the poll set up in your thread here and by the votes people will place in your "Trader's Ratings". If at any time, one or both of those rating vehicles drops below zero (0) and you have a negative rating, your permission to display the provided certification banner will be withdrawn and you MUST remove it from your site immediately. You MUST agree to these terms in order to take part in this program. YOUR applying to be a part of this program by accepting a banner certificate is a defacto agreement on your part that you fully accept the stipulations indicated here.

Good Guy Certificate How to Apply

 

[Bill & Amy]

Bobby (Varnyard) posted them several pages back......

I also have screen shots of their TOS if anyone wishes to have them let me know. Posting them would be hard to read after shrinking them down.

 

[DSsuper92]

It's all disheartening...

I’ve lurked here for some time and hate for this to be my first post here but here goes…

I purchased a pair of het albino balls from TSE in April of 2005 and the transaction was flawless. Based upon this order when I came into some money I made another purchase for a female het albino ball python on November 17, 2005 for $535.00. I fully understood their TOS regarding the weather and was ok to wait. Throughout the winter I would check the temps for both Pittsburgh, PA (my location) and Buffalo, NY. The few times that the temperature rose I contacted them and they would either be slow in responding or say that the forecast was incorrect. I still had no problem with this but I was getting a bit antsy at this point. That’s when I did something stupid and sent them another $599.00 for another pair of hets on March 7th, 2006. I did this solely based on the reputation they had and the fact that my first transaction went so smoothly.

Right after that though is when I started to realize I made two huge mistakes. I never got a confirmation from them for the second purchase and emailed them on 3/29/2006 asking for an update on my two orders. They responded with the response that they were very busy and that my order was coming up. I emailed them two weeks later on the 13th and once again was told how busy they were and that Fedex was limiting them to 20 packages a day. So I waited 5 business days to contact them again explaining that my patience has run out and that I want my animals ASAP or my money back.

They essentially told me that there is no way that they’ll give me a refund. That’s when I first noticed this thread and when I started to get sick to my stomach about all of this. Paypal was no help as my orders were too old according to their TOS. I am now out $1134.00 with no recourse except to file a small claims lawsuit.

I do have all of the emails saved but chose not to post them due to their legal disclaimer at the bottom of them. I harbor no ill will towards anyone there; I just want what I paid for. Whoever is running this business now has really ruined a good thing as I and I’m assuming many others will never order from them again. It’s a shame that it’s all come to this.


Thanks,
David Schroeder

 

[NorthamExotics]

Customer List

Maybe it is in the best (future) interest to start a list of everyone that has purchased as yet unproven hets from TSE. In the event (likely or unlikely, I'll leave that to your individual speculation) that this whole thing runs further afoul than it already has it would be beneficial to have any and all wronged parties in touch with each other.

A group generally speaks louder than one or two people in the event of any action taken should the worst happen from all of this.

The list should probably contain your name and contact info and the details of your purchase. Someone should probably get copies of any pertinent paperwork as well including scanned copies of 'guarantee' paperwork as well as email correspondence.

Unless I hear someone volunteer otherwise I can be the list keeper.

-Jason Northam

 

[tejasranger]

I understand the Good Guy policy, and wouldn't want to circumvent it. But that is the very reason that I got in this mess to begin with. I saw TSEs ad on KS, visited their website. It was displaying the Good Guy Cert., I went immediately to Fauna, checked the Good Guy area, and the BOI. Armed with this false sense of security, I made the purchase. I am not blaming Fauna for my situation, I would just hate to see someone follow the same path that I did. Let's get that Good Guy Rating in the negative.

 

[varnyard]

Bill, the one I posted can be read.

As for Chris, There has now been 30,842 views to this thread now. As for the question of Pat and Glen, no one so far has any information on them at all. IMO, I do not even know if there is a Pat or Glen. There is no proof that they even exist. No proof that Chris is infact sick. And no proof that anyone has any proven morphs from TSE. So that said, It still puts this whole mess square on the shoulders of the owner and founder of TSE, Chris. My opinion will not change on these issues, until some proof of any of these facts are made known. IMHO, there is just excuse after excuse. Looks to me like someone is trying to buy more time to get animals to fill these orders. It does not fly with me about the whole shipping process. Chris is still a scammer in my book, until he makes this right.

Chris, you say to put these great proven costumers on the bottom of the list. Well, fine. You are the one that is on the top of the list here now at BOI.
I would not look for that to change anytime soon.
Well, unless you decide to quit these charades, and make this right. I would be more than happy for someone to prove that I am wrong about this. I would be more than happy to apologize to Chris if these facts are proven. But until the proof is made, my opinion will remain the same about him and TSE.

 

[nicolai]

Sorry, I disagree. I think that it is an intentional red herring.

At this point, people have said here that they have been waiting for months and receiving sub par snakes or no snakes at all. There is NO reason to prolong this lack of service, the company knows full well that if money comes in, either products or a notification of a problem needs to go out.
If I were looking for info, it would be the address to serve papers. It's long past chat time.

What are you talking about Lucille? If you read my post i was asking if anyone had info on glen or pat to help Robert and others have alternate ways to contact these guys to help them out.
Yes they have been waiting months for thier animals, dont you think they can use all the info the members can provide for them?
Chat time?? How is getting info to help out chatting. Your distracting the issue, they need as much info as possible for any legal recourse, you say your a (librarian,nurse and psuedo lawyer) and you dont think information is a powerful tool?

 

[Cat_72]

I’ve lurked here for some time and hate for this to be my first post here but here goes…

I purchased a pair of het albino balls from TSE in April of 2005 and the transaction was flawless. Based upon this order when I came into some money I made another purchase for a female het albino ball python on November 17, 2005 for $535.00. I fully understood their TOS regarding the weather and was ok to wait. Throughout the winter I would check the temps for both Pittsburgh, PA (my location) and Buffalo, NY. The few times that the temperature rose I contacted them and they would either be slow in responding or say that the forecast was incorrect. I still had no problem with this but I was getting a bit antsy at this point. That’s when I did something stupid and sent them another $599.00 for another pair of hets on March 7th, 2006. I did this solely based on the reputation they had and the fact that my first transaction went so smoothly.

Right after that though is when I started to realize I made two huge mistakes. I never got a confirmation from them for the second purchase and emailed them on 3/29/2006 asking for an update on my two orders. They responded with the response that they were very busy and that my order was coming up. I emailed them two weeks later on the 13th and once again was told how busy they were and that Fedex was limiting them to 20 packages a day. So I waited 5 business days to contact them again explaining that my patience has run out and that I want my animals ASAP or my money back.

They essentially told me that there is no way that they’ll give me a refund. That’s when I first noticed this thread and when I started to get sick to my stomach about all of this. Paypal was no help as my orders were too old according to their TOS. I am now out $1134.00 with no recourse except to file a small claims lawsuit.

I do have all of the emails saved but chose not to post them due to their legal disclaimer at the bottom of them. I harbor no ill will towards anyone there; I just want what I paid for. Whoever is running this business now has really ruined a good thing as I and I’m assuming many others will never order from them again. It’s a shame that it’s all come to this.


Thanks,
David Schroeder

David,

I'm very sorry you too are involved in this mess. I am also glad you came forward.

I think a customer list is an excellent idea.

 

[Junkyard]

Top Shelf Exotics Good Guy Certificate.

#0006 - Top Shelf Exotics - Christopher Johnson

 

[Casey Hulse]

I think..

If for no other reason than to prevent a "newcomer" from making a mistake,
we need to get his good guy cert. cancelled. Change your votes.

 

[Rebel Dragons]

Wow......... I'm floored. How unfortunate, and to think I had thought he was a swell guy. Boy, was I wrong it appears.....

Sadly, I guess I was wrong too, Chris. Regardless of whether it's you personally or the people you chose to take over during your absence......... People are getting ripped off for thousands of dollars and you seem to care less about it.

 

[Lucille]

What are you talking about Lucille? If you read my post i was asking if anyone had info on glen or pat to help Robert and others have alternate ways to contact these guys to help them out.

Red herring. Deliberate.

People who contacted got put on the bottom of the heap.

As far as I have been able to gather, it is Chris that still owns the company.
Contacting Pat or Glen is simply spinning out more time and insulating Chris, they were perfectly aware of what they needed to do and have not done it. People are saying that money was paid a long time ago and nothing was sent out.

I am sure that a great strategy for Chris/TSE would be to stall what is happening here in this very thread, that the customers who are being shafted are getting ready to take some action.

I think legal contact is the way to go, and attorneys can get online and easily find the address/person to serve.