Top Shelf Exotics (Inquiry)

[KNOBTAIL]

Lucille, I was under the impression

that a "preponderance of evidence" is all that is necessary. Anyway, whatever is necessary, I am sure a good attorney will be able to provide. These cases generally end up in summary judgements. Chris will never show. He may never even get an attorney. He will in a most likely scenerio file for bankruptcy protection until everyone see's what direction these suits will take.


Just a side note, I was involved with a fraud case that involved a photographer who took photos at weddings, bar mitzvahs, etc. and collected monies in advance with the promise to produce negatives for a future collection of table books of the occasion. What we did not know at the time was that he had taken money from almost 70 different clients. As in this case, people were up in arms. Not so much for the monies, but their memories resided in those photographs, which would be irreplacable! As it turned out their was a creditors meeting, by phone as well as physical with the attorney representing all the clients. Also present was an attorney who represented the photographer. He waited until everyone including the clients attorney to finish, and then as he began , he just indicated to the crowd and the listners on the phone that his client had filed for protection under the bankrucptcy law. He waited until the proceeding was coming to a conclusion before he announced that his client was now under an umbrella of protection.
The very next day he (the photographer) was arrested for fraud. The moral to this is that their are options, and although the monies may be lost, it is possible remotely that if Chris does have some assets in the form of money, some retribution is possible, unlikely, but possible nevertheless.

 

[Lucille]

that a "preponderance of evidence" is all that is necessary.

Yes, a 'preponderance of evidence' is the same this as the 'more likely than not' standard. Also sometimes called the '51%' standard, it requires just enough proof to tip the scale your way.

 

[tejasranger]

Has there been any new information on finding an attorney? I'll check back later, think i'll mosey over to the Fraud Fund Auctions, and bid on something.

 

[Lucille]

I'd like to mosey too, could you please give us that link again?

 

[cahrens]

http://critterauction.com/auction/browse.php?id=243

 

[Chameleon Company]

I just traded a side note with Lucille, and this thought occurred to me in writing a note to her. I hope that many of you realize some monetary restitution. The actual "legal justice" that will eventually be done here is wide open to speculation, and may not amount to much in the end for reasons tossed around pretty well. But there is and was a lot of pent-up anger and legitimate contempt in many here, and the continuing extraction of "poetic justice" has been bountiful.

 

[tejasranger]

Fraud Fund Update

Good news we just passed the $1000 mark. Not including the Terrific Items that have been so generously donated on the Fraud Fund Auctions on http://www.critterauction.com What a great community effort.

A Big Thank You goes out to:

Laura - 150.00
Jason - 103.00
Anonymous - 190.00

 

[Ian S.]

But there is and was a lot of pent-up anger and legitimate contempt in many here, and the continuing extraction of "poetic justice" has been bountiful.

I'm being good!!

 

[Cat_72]

I would like to remind ANYONE who has paid for snakes and not received them to get in touch with Derek at [email protected], and anyone who has purchased "hets" and wishes to be on the list of those of us waiting to see if they will actually prove out or not, please get in tough with Jason Northam at [email protected] . I KNOW there's folks out there that haven't gotten in touch with these guys yet, and there is strength in numbers here folks. The more of us that get together, the more hope we have for a positive outcome.

These guys have both stepped up and offered to take this on to help us ALL out.....we all owe them a huge thank you.

 

[The BoidSmith]

Well...I honestly hope Chris' heteros prove out, particularly after reading this post of his:

Chris@TSE
Dead to the World


Registered: July 2003
Location: New York
Posts: 2972 Comment Date: August 11, 2005


First......... DITCH THE FRIGGIN CAPSLOCK. ITS ANNOYING.




By the way, care to tell me how something you have not proven genetic is being marketed recessive, even offered for sale in heterozygous form? You do not even know what type of trait it is! Nothing has been proven! For all you know it could be a simple NON GENETIC flaw........... It may be different, hell... Some people may even like it. But guess what? You still have to do the same work everyone else does in this hobby before you go cashing in on something. Only a lowlife would potentially sell someone related animals as "hets" when you have NO IDEA whether they will prove or not. Confidence does not count! Who the hell cares if some moron gave you $1 or $100,000..... Personally I would not pay a dime for anything like that unless I knew it was indeed genetic, and proven. Not to mention you have not even bred the animal yet....... How the hell did you produce your imaginary "hets"

Not that I would purchase a flaw like that anyways, but that is besides the point. To each their own... Regardless, you may have the derma, but you're still scamming people. Unless you have PROVEN this genetic, I'd recommend simply asking for breeders support or assistance with the project, don't go placing pricetags on things that are unproven. Talk about destroying your reputation..... lol

Sure, ask people to fork over tens of thousands of dollars for something that is simply unknown at this point. You're either very dumb, or very naive.

So. With all that said about your imaginary hets....

What are you? A) Psychic or B) Stupid, Which is it? (you can only choose one, or both if you like)

------------------------------
C. Johnson
Top Shelf Exotics
TSE Forums

 

[Casey Hulse]

I was at the Taylor, Mi. show today and I put a sign up regarding TSE, no less than a dozen people came over and indicated they were aware of the scam because of the BOI, and one person told me they had purchased a TSE het and were just lurking here to see what happens.

 

[tejasranger]

I noticed that we have 17 people on the poll, that have purchased, but not received their animals. Are there any who care to elaborate on their experience? This will be very helpful in the legal preceedings against Chris & TSE.

 

[SVT Snake]

I have ten people that have contacted me so far.

 

[shep151]

I noticed that we have 17 people on the poll, that have purchased, but not received their animals. Are there any who care to elaborate on their experience? This will be very helpful in the legal preceedings against Chris & TSE.

There's at least one person who posted that they voted "I have received nothing" just to get the "First Unread Post" link to work properly again, so the poll results are probably not exactly representative, especially if others followed suit.

 

[Serpwidgets]

And still not a single person received anything in the past two weeks. What a shock.

 

[Cat_72]

I noticed that we have 17 people on the poll, that have purchased, but not received their animals. Are there any who care to elaborate on their experience? This will be very helpful in the legal preceedings against Chris & TSE.

I still wonder if some of those "I have not received anything" votes may also have ben cases of folks misunderstanding the poll itself. They may have looked at it and thought, "Well, I've never bought anything from TSE, so I'll vote for the never received anything choice".

Is there a way to clarify that to "I have sent TSE money for a purchase but never received anything"?

Has anyone tried contacting the voters to find out their story (other than the one who just wanted the "last unread post" to work again )?

 

[repfriend]

I wish that poll would get taken down altogether. It has messed up "go to first unread post" even IF you vote...

And yes, people voted for no other reason then to fix the "go to first unread post" ...

A thread this large is very hard to maneuver without that option.

So the poll really is void, and if anything there should be a NEW thread with the poll...clearly stated what the poll is for and who should vote and why...

And lets fix this thread by taking this poll off..please

 

[WebSlave]

My recommendation would be to just remove the poll entirely. It really doesn't appear to add anything overly beneficial to this thread, and seems to be causing more people grief then it is worth. Matter of fact, I just may disable polls in the BOI completely after seeing what detrimental aspects they can have in some cases.

 

[Ian S.]

My recommendation would be to just remove the poll entirely. It really doesn't appear to add anything overly beneficial to this thread, and seems to be causing more people grief then it is worth. Matter of fact, I just may disable polls in the BOI completely after seeing what detrimental aspects they can have in some cases.

Personally I couldn't agree more. Especially in a thread such as this one as much factual data for these is not only detrimental to their cases, but also keeps the number of folks scammed, accurate.

 

[TomO]

I finally caught up with the current posts on this (did a lot of skimming) There have been questions about solicitation of trader ratings by TSE/Chris, and a couple of other things, so I'll chime in. I made one purchase from TSE, in Nov 04 I think, an adult WC female BP. It was advertised as such, and shipped within a couple of weeks of payment. There was a small mix-up with the shipping (TSE's fault), but Chris was quick and responsive to my e-mails - in fact, the communication was good through the conclusion of the transaction. It was one of those situations where the reaction to the problem weighs more on a persons rep than the problem itself. In this case, it was handled satisfactorily. When Chris mentioned that he would leave me positive feedback due to my patience, I felt it fair to do the same. He did not directly solicit positive feedback, rather, he nurtured the environment in which it would grow. (Customer service?).
I subsequently became an actvie member on his forum, and was for some time. After a while though, there was really no longer anything there of any interest to me and I pretty much became non-participatory. Over the same period of time my opinion of TSE began to change, based on his reactions to his customers. My last activity over there was to publicly criticise TSE's communication with customers, whereupon the thread was locked after Chris's rebuttal.

So, in a nutshell, the feedback I left for him here was representative of my only transaction with him. I did later publicly state on his own forum that I would not purchase from him again. While I could not undo my trader feedback here, I could and did post my opinion on his own site. - all a part of Nicks headaches over there. Why did I not bring anything here? Because I had no factual basis on which to provide any warning. I did piss in the dragons own cave though.