Top Shelf Exotics (Inquiry)

[varnyard]

I agree with Cathy. Stating it's the last one when it is clearly not is unacceptable. It reminds me of the statement: ..."It belonged to an old lady that kept it always in the garage, and used it only to go grocery shopping"...

I will agree with that one!! I think I bought a few of them one owner wonders!!

But Chris still has to many actions that are 100% way out of the lines of good business. Deception is one thing, scamming is yet another.

 

[tejasranger]

It basically said if I do not stop asking questions I will be placed at the end of the line and stuck be my lonely trying to bleed blood from a stone. How true that statement is ringing right now.

Chris Rouille

No worries Chris, you are in good company at the back of the line, but it must be getting pretty crowded. I haven't heard from one person, that have received their animals from TSE in the last month. They must have put everyone at the back of the line.

What is TSE doing with their inventory if they aren't shipping. Must have a huge food bill. From looking at their website, he is selling a little of everything, Geckos, Monitors, Balls, Boas, etc... How would you unload that many animals quickly?

Did he scam people other than Ball Morph customers? Some of those Geckos he advertised are High Dollar. Has anybody heard from people on other forums that have been scammed?

 

[KNOBTAIL]

Its an industry wide shame, but not surprising because of the inadequate safeguards that the herp industry seems to constantly ferment. Chris Johnson/TSE is a byproduct of an uncontrolled viper that preys on good people without any consideration for the consequences, whether financial or otherwise. Whats even worse, is that its only the tip of the iceberg as these scam operations become innovative enough to get away with it until they are flushed out, and then the damage is so irreparable. that any and all losses become impossible to retrieve

 

[Lizard Lair]

Did he scam people other than Ball Morph customers? Some of those Geckos he advertised are High Dollar. Has anybody heard from people on other forums that have been scammed?

I posted quite a ways back, but I'll briefly recap. In November I sent Chris 4 tangerine amel African Fat Tail geckos, and 3 that were het for tangerine amel. They were all breeders and were probably worth a minimum of $2500 had I sold them individually. In exchange Chris was to send me one of his very high end leopard geckos that was a Mack Snow double het Rainwater Patternless. Which he did. But the gecko had (probable) MBD, so Chris told me to send her back and he would replace her. I returned her (at my expense) and never received a replacement. I got the same story everybody else got - cold weather, illness, shipping backs ups. When this thread started and I saw that his paypal accounts were frozen, which would probably also shut down his shipping I sent him several e-mails offering him to ship the gecko to me on my shipping account number. There was absolutely no reason for him to not jump on this offer - it would have cost him nothing, made a customer happy, and been one less mouth to feed.

 

[mbrown3208]

New York State Police and Top Shelf Exotics

The New York State Police has opened a investigation regarding the activities of Chris Johnson/TopShelfExotics. This investigation is in conjuction with the IFCC.

To be considered a victim of Johnson/TopShelfExotics you must meet the following requirements:
1) Victimized in the last 5 years.
2) Can provide some proof of payment to Johnson/TopShelfExotics for merchandise(canceled check, receipt of eft, wire transfer, paypal, etc.)
3) Be willing to complete a deposition regarding your dealings with Johnson/TopShelfExotics, have it notarized and return it to the New York State Police. A blank deposition will be provided free of charge to you via email. Takes a few minutes to complete.
4) You have not received reimbursement, full or partial, from Johnson/Top ShelfExotics. Any reimbursement received from Johnson/TopShelfExotics disqualifies you as a victim in a criminal court in New York and you must proceed in a civil court.

If you meet the above requirements and wish to see Johnson/TopShelfExotics prosecuted in a criminal court please email me at [email protected]. There is NO guarantee of compensation after a verdict is rendered.

Inv. Mark A. Brown
New York State Police

 

[KNOBTAIL]

I sent Officer Brown,

an email providing some additional information that I thought would be relevent , and hopfully, this will be the beginning of some real action against Johnson/TSE. It is imperative to contact him if you are a claimant whether you lost money without receiving anything or if you received anything and it turned out to be fake. (its the same as buying a Gucci bag or fake diamonds when they were sold as real) just provide some proof of purchase.

 

[SVT Snake]

Reap what you sow Chris!

 

[Lizard Lair]

Let it be known...

Perhaps some of you that frequent some of the other forums can let it be known that depositons are going to be taken and how to contact Officer Brown?

 

[ravensgait]

Well looks like something is happening on this which is good to hear or read in this case..


People have asked and comminted on the process of charging back through your credit card used with paypal. Well I just talked to Paypal today and if any Credit card Company does a charge back they have to respond and (this is according to the person I spoke with) if the Credit card company decides the charge back is justified Paypal (again according to the person I spoke with) will refund the payment to the Credit card company.

Now This is a conversation I had with someone in their resolution center, the reason this all came up is I'm contesting a charge back on a deal that took place the first of Feb...(they filed a charge back this past Sat. the 20th) Seems that Credit card companies have different time limits on how long can pass before you can no longer try to charge back. Paypal has to respond and it seems that it's up to the CC company as to what the outcome will be, Palpal just gets info and responds to the charge back. So it seems that the CC folks are the ones who will decide who gets the money and the process can take up to 120 days. Again this is what I was told on the phone today..Randy

 

[KNOBTAIL]

Is their any way of making sure that this email came from Albany and that Mark A Brown is in fact a member of the NYS Police Dept with a Yahoo address? How about a phone # !

 

[Junkyard]

Mr. Brown, thank you for answering my question as it seemed to be lost in all of this.

 

[KNOBTAIL]

Randy,

am I to understand that Paypal could take a hit for the monies they paid Chris! I was under the impression that when you signed up with Paypal, you agreed to their terms of allowing them to be the arbitrator in these types of disputes. Can you imagine if the credit card companies began siding with the individual. This would open a floodgate of chargebacks to Paypal.

I dont see any chance of this happening. This would undermine the foundation of Paypal completely. What I do suggest for those who paid and received nothing would be to contact their homeowners policy for theft coverage by credit card through their homeowners. It is another avenue to follow.

 

[ddowns]

I've been following this thread since day one, but didn't see that I could add anything new. BUT, if you did use a CC to order through PayPal your CC company has and will do a chargeback to PayPal. Infact it was a PayPal employee in the resolution center that suggested I contact my CC company. I use Visa and within minutes of explaining that I had payed for but did not receive the "Last Het Albino pair" they refunded my account.
PayPal is in the business of protecting the seller not the buyer, the CC companies are in business to protect their customers. I had initiated a compaint through the PayPal resolution center AND started the chargeback through Visa. Once the CC company initiated the ChargeBack to PayPal, they (PayPal) closed the complaint file and open a ChargeBack file against TSE.
I do believe that PayPal can be held liable to a credit card company. In PayPal's "Seller Protection Policy" they state that if a "Seller" is involved in a ChargeBack and their is not enough funds in the account to cover the ChargeBack then PayPal will take other means to recoup their monies.


Doug Downs

 

[Cat_72]

Thanks for posting, Doug. That indeed may be good news for those who did use a cc through Paypal.

I have to ask....where do you get that you purchased the "last het albino pair"? Last I saw, they were still advertisng het albinos, no mention of running out of those.

 

[ddowns]

The following is from PayPal's "Seller Protection" policy, pay particular attention to the last sentences;


What is a chargeback?
A chargeback occurs when a buyer asks their credit card company to remove a charge from their credit card statement. The credit card company will ask the buyer to provide an explanation about why they are disputing the charge.

-Two common reasons for reversals or chargebacks are:
-A buyerâs credit card number is stolen and used fraudulently

A buyer makes a purchase, but believes that the seller failed to fulfill their side of the agreement (e.g. did not ship the item, shipped an item that was very different from the sellerâs description, or the item was damaged when the buyer received it).
How does PayPal notify a seller when a chargeback has been filed against them?
When PayPal is notified that a buyer has filed a chargeback against a seller, PayPal immediately emails the seller. Then, the seller can log into their PayPal account and go to the Resolution Center to monitor the status of the case and provide information to help resolve the matter.

How can a seller recover funds when a chargeback occurs?
When a chargeback occurs, the money that is subject to the chargeback is deducted from PayPalâs bank account. In turn, PayPal places a temporary hold on the same amount in the sellerâs PayPal balance (i.e., the funds are frozen).
The seller and PayPal can work together to dispute the chargeback with the buyerâs credit card company. While the chargeback is being disputed, PayPal will debit the seller for the amount in question. If PayPal and the seller ultimately win the chargeback dispute, the credit card company will reimburse PayPal for the chargeback and PayPal will transfer the recovered funds back to the seller. Depending on the credit card company involved, the process may take up to 75 days. In a dispute over a chargeback, the decision is ultimately made by the credit card company and PayPal cannot control the outcome.

 

[ddowns]

A little more from PayPal's "Seller Protection";



How do PayPal and the seller work together to dispute a chargeback with the buyerâs credit card company?

Sellers can provide PayPal with evidence to dispute the chargeback through the Resolution Center, by email at [email protected], or fax. PayPal uses this evidence plus any evidence PayPal may already have to investigate the chargeback with the buyerâs credit card company. Because of deadlines imposed by the credit card companies, sellers must respond quickly (usually within 10 calendar days) once they are notified of a chargeback. Response deadlines can be found in the email PayPal sends to the seller when notifying them of a chargeback.

PayPal reserves the right not to dispute a chargeback even if the seller has provided some evidence, particularly if PayPal believes the dispute is not likely to be successful.

Why do some chargebacks occur so long after a seller receives the payment?

Certain laws and credit card issuer policies usually allow buyers to file chargebacks weeks or sometimes months after the initial transaction occurs. If a buyer waits to file a chargeback, a seller may encounter a temporary hold on funds in their PayPal account for a transaction that occurred weeks or months ago.

 

[KNOBTAIL]

the problem with Paypal, which

I have mentioned on several previous posts is that:

No payment will be made back to the buyer through their credit card co. if Paypal cannot recoup the monies from the seller. This would put paypal out of business. The sellers would be constantly at risk even if the sales were legit. The information provided pertains to sellers and buyers that have a continued business relationship. That is not the case with TSE. Their are no funds to give back! As Ive indicated, in the end, the credit card companies will side with Paypal, and that is what the buyer agreed to when they signed on.

It may very well turn out that the credit card company agrees with the buyer about the chargeback, but the buyer agreed with the TOS of paypal. Why would Paypal allow themselves to loose money when they have no vechicle for collecting it from a defunct operation such as TSE.

 

[Scott Ashton]

Is their any way of making sure that this email came from Albany and that Mark A Brown is in fact a member of the NYS Police Dept with a Yahoo address? How about a phone # !

Yeah - I wonder why he listed a Yahoo email address and not New York State Police address.

I'm a civilian member of a Federal program to protect critical infrastructure and even I have an "official" email address.

Doesn't pass the smell test - yet.

 

[ddowns]

PayPal

How can a seller recover funds when a chargeback occurs?
When a chargeback occurs, the money that is subject to the chargeback is deducted from PayPalâs bank account. In turn, PayPal places a temporary hold on the same amount in the sellerâs PayPal balance (i.e., the funds are frozen).

KNOBTAIL

No payment will be made back to the buyer through their credit card co. if Paypal cannot recoup the monies from the seller. This would put paypal out of business. The sellers would be constantly at risk even if the sales were legit. The information provided pertains to sellers and buyers that have a continued business relationship. That is not the case with TSE. Their are no funds to give back! As Ive indicated, in the end, the credit card companies will side with Paypal, and that is what the buyer agreed to when they signed

It would appear in PayPals own terms that they (PayPal) will indeed be charged by the CC companies and they will have to recoup their monies on there own, I'm sure the CC companies don't care if PayPal gets their money or not. When I paid for the pair of HET Albino from TSE I was sent a Link to PayPal to send money, You don't have to become a "Verified Buyer" and I didn't agree to any terms with PayPal that they would be the ultimate arbitrator for a disput. In fact the CC company will have the final say. I was given a refund in less than a few minutes.

PayPal

In a dispute over a chargeback, the decision is ultimately made by the credit card company and PayPal cannot control the outcome.

During PayPal's resolution process they will give TSE 10 day to responds, which in my case TSE/Chris/Pat.... never responded. And I would guess with all the other complaints in the past few weeks PayPal is well aware of TSE's scam.

 

[ravensgait]

Jerry just passing on what Paypal told me today.

And if you look at the time period of my own problem they allowed a charge back that was over 3 months old. Seems that the CC company has the final say so in what happens. From what I was told today it seems they will pay the CC company and go after you for the funds. The Card companies have protection for their customers just like if your cards were stolen they refund what ever charges were made, seems they do pretty much the same in these situations if they find in the favor of their customer.

In my case Paypal represents me and passes on information that Paypal requested of me to the Credit card company. If I loose then Paypal refunds the CC company and then comes to me to recover what they paid out.

So if I had used Paypal to buy from TSE I'd be talking to my card company to see what they can do. As I mentioned in my earlier post each company has a different time limit in which claims can be filed so best get on the phone to you CC company.. Randy