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Top Shelf Exotics (Inquiry)

There seemed to be a little misunderstanding with an earlier post of mine so I’m going to dissect it myself so it might be better understood.

Without having any proof of what we are saying we can’t start throwing possible scenarios of what Chris might have done with that money.
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Poor wording of mine…of course you can; you can say whatever you wish of another person. Now if you choose to do so and there’s no proof whatsoever it’s just mere speculation. Now, can anyone speculate? Of course, but when it’s suggested that the money was “possibly” used to buy drugs the purpose is clearly to degrade the individual one step further. My question still stands, which will be the next crime to suggest after the drug topic is exhausted?

The problem is that what some of you are suggesting is flirting with libelous statements.
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Self explained with the following:
libelous
adj : (used of statements) harmful and often untrue; tending to discredit or malign [syn: calumniatory, calumnious, defamatory, denigrative, denigrating, denigratory, libellous, slanderous]
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There has been an officer of the law already involved in this thread. Why don’t we let everything follow its course without adding unsubstantiated drama?
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The point being law enforcement has already been alerted and they are working on the case. The statement has nothing to do with the drug issue mentioned before. Now if people want to speculate on issues that again are completely unsubstantiated, they can knock themselves out. From an outsider looking in the purpose seems to be to further denigrate the individual. In MHO Chris doesn’t need any more help in that department, then again it’s a free world and you can choose to do whatever you wish with your words...

Best regards
 
Dan, I think if you look back at some of the previous

posts, I mentioned that usually their are extenuating circumstances when someone as desparate as Chris is willing to loose everything including Fraud charges for Fifteen or Twenty thousand dollars. The people who may have received bogus snakes may never reach the light of day, so it would be very difficult to include them in unless they come forward.

So we are left with other motives that would encourage someone to take such a risk for such a small amount of monies that can easily put him in prison. My reference to drugs was not based on some haphazard ideology of mine, but rather my own dealings as a police officer. Granted I am not doing the investigation, and as Ive indicated, it may prove out to be nothing other than stupidity on Chris's part, but as stated earlier, when someone uses these false ludicrous methods such as an extreme illness, or multiple personality employees, weather related nonsense, then its not just a simple case of fraud, its a much deeper seeded problem.

Chris has destroyed himself completely. I just dont believe that anyone would do this for the limited aquisition of the monies that have been tallied sofar.
 
Dan,
In the end, we're both looking at the same thing. The legal issues concerning "libel" (vs. the adjective "libelous") get tossed around in threads, and the real concern is libel. The legal standard for actual libel is quite high, and I cringe a bit at the definition of libelous as saying "often untrue", which would suggest that a "libelous" statement can at times be true. In an actual libel suit, "Truth" is the best defense in the courts, in that if you say someone is a thief, you need only show that they have stolen to disprove the libel.

Much has been said in this thread that was negative about Chris, where I would guess that the prime motivation was often some spite and malice aimed at Chris, to denigrate him further as you say. While it can carry on a bit for some of us, there's no questioning that Chris deserves a heap of public ridicule, and if some people have a few more shovel-fulls that they want to pile on, I don't want to be standing between them and Chris. I think that by definition speculation is minimally substantiated at best. It has served some practical purposes as people debate going after Chris, and also allowed some venting. I'm with Jerry in saying that this has many of the earmarks of a drug problem, as have others here. We may never know, but it would be hoped that some of our young readers (and some of the old) who dabble in that nonsense, or may have opportunity to, will see what a few of us feel is a textbook example of "speculative" drug use, and maybe stop their own personal trainwreck long before it ever happens. You put it so well a dozen or so posts back as to what Chris must now live with, and cannot escape, regardless of the legal machinations.
 
Let me make a suggestion. With the money that has been raised with the Fraud Fund. Wouldn't it be more prudent at this point to use the fund to hire a private investigator in lieu of an attorney. So far the attorney's seem to think that recovery of money isn't possible. At least with a P.I. we will be collecting data, photos, addresses, phone numbers, on Chris Johnson. Armed with this information, we can insure that he won't have such an easy time stealing from anyone again. Just my 2 cents.
 
Golden Gate Geckos said:
Hmmm... you know, $15,000 just doesn't seem like enough money to warrant the magnitude of Chris' betrayal of his friends, his business, or the community, not to mention the seriousness of what he could be facing legally. I would think that the sum of money involved to compel him to do this would be FAR greater, or he is far more desperate than imagined.

Well, I suppose there have been people sent to prison for 20 years for armed robbery that only got away from the 7-11 with a few hundred bucks.

Desperate people do desperate things...
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Marcia, you have to realize that $15,000.00 is only the figure from a partial list of people who know about this thread on Fauna. Not even all of the amounts are in from those people. I'm sure that figure could be and probably is a whole lot higher. Not that this justifies what he has done in ANY way, shape, or form......but it's really sad to see what greed can do to people.
 
Not only what Cat said.

But this only represents some of the people that are currently out of funds due to Chris not shipping. If Chris has been selling normals as hets for some time, then the figure is much greater and certainly enough for someone of low character to take a chance of getting away with it.
 
History repeats itself.

tejasranger said:
Let me make a suggestion. With the money that has been raised with the Fraud Fund. Wouldn't it be more prudent at this point to use the fund to hire a private investigator in lieu of an attorney. So far the attorney's seem to think that recovery of money isn't possible. At least with a P.I. we will be collecting data, photos, addresses, phone numbers, on Chris Johnson. Armed with this information, we can insure that he won't have such an easy time stealing from anyone again. Just my 2 cents.
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The last time that had happened on this board, it didn’t turnout so well.
 
The idea of hiring a private eye is really an overkill. What I would like to know is who is the attorney handling the case and what are the chances of forcing Chris into bankruptcy?
 
tejasranger said:
Let me make a suggestion. With the money that has been raised with the Fraud Fund. Wouldn't it be more prudent at this point to use the fund to hire a private investigator in lieu of an attorney.
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I can't speak for the others who contributed money, but I pitched in my donation to hire an attorney and legal expenses, not a PI. I'm sure you can find a lawyer in the Buffalo area that could give you a telephone consultation and offer advise on the way to proceed with this matter, as well as an idea of the costs involved.
 
I'm also against hiring a PI. I just don't foresee any real benefit from it.

I just candled the eggs really well last night, and there are none (which I can get to) that have a "tell-tale" Piebald pattern on them. Two have definite "Aliens" visible, though, which (I think) pretty much rules them out as Pieds. :shrug01:

17 days left of incubation!!!
 
shep151 said:
I'm also against hiring a PI. I just don't foresee any real benefit from it.

I just candled the eggs really well last night, and there are none (which I can get to) that have a "tell-tale" Piebald pattern on them. Two have definite "Aliens" visible, though, which (I think) pretty much rules them out as Pieds. :shrug01:

17 days left of incubation!!!
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Zach

Can you refresh my memory? What kind of background did Chris give you on these animals? Did he claim to have produced them? What was their pricetag?

Thanks
 
It was my understanding (although undocumented; it's not in the emails) that they were produced by him.

This may have come from his site, or through the research that I did on him via the BOI and/or the folks in chat, I don't recall.

The ad was for 1.2 het Pieds, and continued to run all winter, despite my purchase of 1.1 of the 1.2.

I paid $1800 shipped.
 
shep151 said:
It was my understanding (although undocumented; it's not in the emails) that they were produced by him.

This may have come from his site, or through the research that I did on him via the BOI and/or the folks in chat, I don't recall.

The ad was for 1.2 het Pieds, and continued to run all winter, despite my purchase of 1.1 of the 1.2.

I paid $1800 shipped.
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I am keeping my fingers crossed for you
 
I see... Well, given how many people have been taken by this charade, I think it deserves time on the top of the BOI for a while still.

I agree however, that the facts need to stay the facts for this to work well for the whole group. Speculation aside, we just need to stay strong together and work together to find a suitable solution.
 
Heather,
Length, width, girth, depth, is what I was referring to. Some people who have posted within this thread, and no personal stake in the outcome could write a short, well, rather long novel. Take those posts out and the thread actually has some substance to it.
 
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