Top Shelf Exotics (Inquiry)

[gmherps]

John,
I agree with most of your views, and had no trouble understanding what you meant about the topic meandering. I also thank you for this most recent post, as it serves as a summation to any new-comers as to what the prior 1600+ posts are about. Any critique that I intended to infer, and it was somewhat meant in a humorous tone, was that we should accept all the bumps in the thread, as they are inevitable. That many are not worth reading comes with the turf, but is also just a matter of opinion. We disagree on the inclusion of the het issue, as I am all for any legitimate questioning of Chris's products here.

WOW!!!!!
Many of the posts within this thread have been yours correct Jim?
Are you or have you been one of the complainant's attorney? Have you provided counsel? If so, was it fee-for service or Pro Bono? Are you the mediator? I think the over zealous posting of some individuals, usually with FREE advice on what to do is a bit old. Point a person in the right direction and then stay out of it is what I always say, but then again that's just me.

How many people have actually posted here within this rather lengthy thread that stand to actually loose cash from Chris? If the hets do not prove on the first breeding is that all that is needed to say he is a cheat?
These questions have PROBABLY all been asked and answered, but I'll be dipped if I'm going to read through 1700+ posts to find out.


My personal belief is that this thread should be stickied and locked at the top of the BOI until someone comes with FRESH info on Chris.

BTW, I bought a WC normal female BP from Chris that weighed 1900 grams when she came in about Nov 2003. She was advertised as WC, but has eaten every time on rats and is a great snake. Do I owe him some cash since I expected this snake to be a problem feeder?

 

[Chameleon Company]

Don't meant to ignore your questions Greg, they just don't seem worth answering . Never been much of a fan of those who don't do their homework. I did enjoy the irony though of complaining about the length of the thread, the many posts of dubious value, and then the choice to add some more!

 

[KNOBTAIL]

Greg

"How many people have actually posted here within this rather lengthy thread that stand to actually loose cash from Chris? "
Am I to understand that,
because people who posted here and did not loose any money to Chris should not offer any advise! So I can infer that only people who lost money should be able to participate in this thread. Is that an accurate statement of what you are saying!

Let me tell you, that the loss is felt, from everyone and the more people who know about it and participate the better off we all are. We have some smart people who get involved and are very savy to computer related histories such as emails, IPs, etc. I for one appreciate their impute, and on more than one occassion have weeded out some bad apples with nothing more than the kindness of providing time and energy to helping. And, they never lost monies to the thread involved.

"Point a person in the right direction and then stay out of it is what I always say, but then again that's just me."

Tell me Greg, what is the right direction? When one person gets taken and an attorney proves hopeless , because it costs more to hire an attorney rather than just excepting the fact of being taken, may require a variety of different options that would be provided by coming here and offered several directions on how to approach the problem. Their is no 1 direction. Their are avenues and the more choices a person has, the more intelligent his options will become.

"My personal belief is that this thread should be stickied and locked at the top of the BOI until someone comes with FRESH info on Chris."

I agree with the above personal belief, but it should only pertain to you, because the whole post just seems to border on censorship, and that I will not allow, nor should anyone else.

 

[gmherps]

I agree with the above personal belief, but it should only pertain to you, because the whole post just seems to border on censorship, and that I will not allow, nor should anyone else.

Yeah God forbid the ACLU get involved.
So how many people have posted in this thread that actually have a vested interest (cash that is) in the outcome of these hets?

I guarantee that that # is nowhere near the number of people interjecting their "should do's, could do's, you need too's, and all that jazz".

Of course, Jim you do not answer my questions they are logical.

 

[shrap]

Come on fellas. Greg, Jerry, Jim..... all 3 of you guys are good people with nothing more than a difference of opinion here. Lets not let this turn into taking snide shots at one another and making it personal. I have been guilty of it myself and felt real bad about it afterwards (hehe, I still love ya Jim). We dont have to agree with one another but we should at least respect each others right to voice their opinion without attacking one another over it.

 

[Chameleon Company]

Greg,

You ask:

Many of the posts within this thread have been yours correct Jim?
Are you or have you been one of the complainant's attorney? Have you provided counsel? If so, was it fee-for service or Pro Bono? Are you the mediator? ........ How many people have actually posted here within this rather lengthy thread that stand to actually loose cash from Chris? ........(regarding your purchase of a snake from Chris)Do I owe him some cash since I expected this snake to be a problem feeder?If the hets do not prove on the first breeding is that all that is needed to say he is a cheat?

So how many people have posted in this thread that actually have a vested interest (cash that is) in the outcome of these hets?
Of course, Jim you do not answer my questions they are logical.

Nope, not yet ! I guess Jerry and I, and possibly a few others, just don't yet grasp the logic ! I do welcome a more thorough explanation of the logic for those of us who need more enlightenment.

Agreed Sammy. This thread, and the BOI, are full of differing opinions. However, for Greg to come here, and attack others for their participation, is not a difference of opinion, although it is somewhat comedic.

BTW Greg, my work was pro-bono. Try a PM next time.

 

[KNOBTAIL]

Greg,

their have been almost 2,000 posts here. I dont know why it was even necessary to to provide that kind of a post as a contribution. Everyone is invited to participate, just as long as they pay for that priviledge through the BOI.

If it upsets you or you feel that we should not offer an opinion,or that we really dont have a right to provide some help even though we may not be directly involved, is in the minority of 1. YOU ! Shrap is correct, but let me just add that your posts really dont require a response, so I am just going to call it quits before I get anymore warning points! Jim, dont let him bait you into attempting to justify the goodness that you provide in your posts.

 

[WebSlave]

So how many people have posted in this thread that actually have a vested interest (cash that is) in the outcome of these hets?

I guarantee that that # is nowhere near the number of people interjecting their "should do's, could do's, you need too's, and all that jazz".

If you can find where what you suggest is a requirement of posting on a thread within the BOI, please point it out to me. I don't recall it myself. Probably because I purposely chose not to include such a requirement. For one reason, it would be completely unenforceable. Secondly, this whole concept of the BOI is based on peer pressure. It is hoped that someone who it leaning towards the dark side may be swayed to return to the light when they see MANY people posting their negative opinions about such person's actions. No, it's not perfect, and not everyone is going to agree with this philosophy, obviously. But I do believe that the pressure applied is sufficient to be beneficial in some instances.

 

[tejasranger]

Put your money where your mouth is!

This thread is freaking ridiculous.

Greg,
I have a vested interest in the outcome of this situation, I was scammed by Chris, He owes me $1800. I for one appreciate everyone who has taken the time to post. I haven't agreed with every post, but in a democracy, that is part of its beauty. I am interested in finding out who forced you into looking at this post? Those evil . Do you have any idea just how many people who posted in this thread, but don't have a dog in the fight, gave unselfishly to the Fraud Fund by means of cash and auction items? If you get tired of reading this "freaking ridiculous" post, why don't you spend the time putting something up for auction, or make a donation, that will benefit the whole herp community instead. Or you could just keep spending your time bitching. Your choice.

 

[gmherps]

Greg,
I have a vested interest in the outcome of this situation, I was scammed by Chris, He owes me $1800. I for one appreciate everyone who has taken the time to post. I haven't agreed with every post, but in a democracy, that is part of its beauty. I am interested in finding out who forced you into looking at this post? Those evil . Do you have any idea just how many people who posted in this thread, but don't have a dog in the fight, gave unselfishly to the Fraud Fund by means of cash and auction items? If you get tired of reading this "freaking ridiculous" post, why don't you spend the time putting something up for auction, or make a donation, that will benefit the whole herp community instead. Or you could just keep spending your time bitching. Your choice.

You have a vested interest.

Bitching? I'm not bitching my man, I have merely pointed out where unnecessary posts like Jim have been made. That's Jim's mission. He runs the same game in multiple threads.
The freaking ridiculous statement by me was NOT pointing to people who have been scammed, but to those people who claim to "help" others with their advice.

Rich, did I say anything about a requirement? I think not. I said this on the same basis as I told you yesterday in a PM; "why is the TSE thread still going"? Your answer was: "As for the TSE thread, sure, I would close it and people would want to lynch me for doing that. Thanks, but no thanks".

What happened to the supposed hardcore man that closed/locked threads because no new info had been added?

It seems that all the bitching and whining is being done by people who stand to lose NOTHING from TSE.

 

[SVT Snake]

I have a vested interest and appreciate the advice and support that has been shared here. It seems like the pot is calling the kettle black. You my friend are cluttering up the thread with alot of useless nonsense, the exact thing you come on here ridiculing others of doing. At least they were trying to help and provide advice rather than just cluttering the thread with complaints.

As far as I can tell, you do not have a vested interest so if it bothers you that much just ignore it.

 

[Chameleon Company]

Bitching? I'm not bitching my man, I have merely pointed out where unnecessary posts like Jim have been made. That's Jim's mission. He runs the same game in multiple threads.

Greg, I don't believe that you or I have ever had an exchange of views before. What I do know from the above comment is that you don't have the decency enough to address any problem you have with my comments here and elsewhere in a PM, and instead use the approach that you have here, coming to a thread and slinging the feces with the personal attacks. Considering what I now perceive of your views, I take it as a compliment that you do not care for my posts. You suggested earlier sending money to Chris at TSE because he sent you a snake that ate for you. I am sure he would take any donations you would care to so wisely make. Don't know what crawled up your rear end today, but the stage is yours. Tell me ... heck, tell us all, what jerks we are for posting here.

 

[gmherps]

I have a vested interest and appreciate the advice and support that has been shared here. It seems like the pot is calling the kettle black. You my friend are cluttering up the thread with alot of useless nonsense, the exact thing you come on here ridiculing others of doing. At least they were trying to help and provide advice rather than just cluttering the thread with complaints.
As far as I can tell, you do not have a vested interest so if it bothers you that much just ignore it.

Is that what you call advice?
I don't have avested interest, you are right. I feel sorry for those who do, BUT, before you go chirping on Jimbo's little horn and others whom have "come to defend you all with the mighty advice", take a look at the person real hard.

I have posted what, 3-4 times in this thread. A mere drop in the bucket compared to the nonsense drivel that clutters up this thread.

I hope everyone who stands to lose any cash from TSE gets their $$ and then some. You all deserve it.

I will stand back and wait for the next "big advice" certain experts give to the poor souls that ACTUALLY lost out here because of TSE.

Jim, I don't PM when I have something to say that everyone needs to see. If you can't take what I'm saying and use it to your advantage, and, or constructively, then that's your problem. Have a great day and keep that advice coming.

 

[Chameleon Company]

Greg,
Thanks for the advice, but do realize that it may be some time before your words are deemed worthy of constructive considerations by myself and others. My close friends call me Jimbo ... guess you'd be more accurately represented just referring to me as "J" eh ?

 

[WebSlave]

Rich, did I say anything about a requirement? I think not. I said this on the same basis as I told you yesterday in a PM; "why is the TSE thread still going"? Your answer was: "As for the TSE thread, sure, I would close it and people would want to lynch me for doing that. Thanks, but no thanks".

What happened to the supposed hardcore man that closed/locked threads because no new info had been added?

It seems that all the bitching and whining is being done by people who stand to lose NOTHING from TSE.

Yes, I have locked threads in the past. So? That is my choice, not yours, thank you very much. Your complaining about this thread and being so long is only making it longer and your topic matter really irrelevant to what this thread is about.

And who exactly was it that made you put a dog into this fight? Is someone out there twisting your arm to become involved in this thread, much less participating in it? It was actually dying down somewhat until you decided to jump in with both feet, and in all actuality I can't tell the difference between what you are doing here and exactly what it is you are complaining about in this thread.

 

[gmherps]

Rich, threads like these have been going on long before I ever posted on the BOI and they will remain. How they are handled is up to you. I would sincerely hope that people's "views" of you doesn't in any way play a dominating role in how you operate your site. Apparently it does though.

oh and btw, 3/4 of this thread is filled with things like I'm saying. Do you chose to recognize it or run and hide for fear of pissing off one or two fauna-career lifers?

This thread was never dying down. It may have fallen a few rungs but far from leaving even the first page on the BOI.

There are far more responsible people for bringing "the light, and or the truth" to this fantastic masterpiece that at one time down the road will be referred to simply as "The thread that should've been dead".

 

[Chameleon Company]

Greg,
I really don't care to have a urinating contest with you, as it isn't worth a pot of that urine. Before today and your posts here, I didn't know you from shinola. You seem to have come here today intent on throwing some of your home-grown disrespect my way, and its a little difficult to swallow having had no prior interactions with you ... kind of a "what's his problem"? No one is going to disagree that this thread has gotten a lot of mileage just running on the fumes and hot air of others, and I have contributed my fair share ... in fact, I had a bowl of beans tonight so as not to run out of my own version of fossil fuels. I also got a PM from a brand new member of Fauna tonight, asking how to post on the BOI, and contribute their story via a "checklist" that they have heard of, as she and her husband had a story to tell about being taken by Chris as well. Maybe its a hoax, and maybe not. But if its legit, its because this thread has had the staying power, fumes and all, to still be active here.
I take it you don't like my "style", and feel a need to warn others. Seems I've impressed myself ! Next time I can get my wife to jump in the shower with me, I'm going to have her once again check the places that I cannot see looking for the "666". And maybe some folks just need to take a step back, check their compass, take a deep breath. Any debate you have with me is not for this thread.

 

[varnyard]

gmherps: It seems that all the b ing and whining is being done by people who stand to lose NOTHING from TSE

.

With comments like this, what are you thinking?? Every breeder/seller/buyer has something to loose. Why? Because running scams like this hurts us all.
If there are dishonest sellers out there, that are running scams just like this.
Then how can you even remotely say it does not affect us all. You have people reading this thread that are now never going to buy on line again. So you are 100% wrong when you say we stand to loose nothing. You have breeders that are legit, but now have a shadow when selling their hets. Stop and think, does this not make sense?

Greg, I have never had a problem with you in the past. I have no problem with you now. But what is this topic about? Is it about a beef you have with Jim? If so take it to a PM. You are not being to good at contributing to this tread. IMO, looks like you are here just to start trouble, is this true? If so, why? I am sure I am not the only one that feels this way.

As for your comment about anyone that has been not taken by Chris has no reason to post on this thread. That is your opinion, nothing more. Were you taken by Chris? If so, than explain.

I am here to see that he gets his just rewards. Anyone that attacks our hobby signs me up to making it my business. I am a reputable seller, and would hate to see others turned away from buying on the net from a scammer like Chris. I did contribute to the auction to help these people recover some funds, or at least stick this scammer in jail. At least two of these great buyers are repeat buyers from me. I know what type of people they are. JMHO

 

[gmherps]

First Jim:

No one is going to disagree that this thread has gotten a lot of mileage just running on the fumes and hot air of others, and I have contributed my fair share

LMAO!!! Just yours right? I have posted now 7 times on this thread. Jim, I'm also glad you have the ability to impress yourself because you are about the only one that can seem to do that.
As far as disrespect being thrown at you; obviously you are blind. Jim, you have done the same exact thing to other people here on fauna (shall I dig up another thread just to show you?) Do you see other people digging your buddy Allen Belchers thread? No, Why? Because you whined and moaned so loud because Allen is your friend, and we all know the vested interest connection you and Allen has. Oh I'm sorry, you came to his defense, my bad.

Micheal:
We have to pick our battles. If you plan on going after Chris too, go for it. Take him down. What he did/doing is BAD!!!!!!
What doesn't make sense is this comment:

You have people reading this thread that are now never going to buy on line again.

Oh really, care to explain that? I have people all the time that RESPOND to my ADS ONLINE, and then CALL ME!!!! How are people not going to buy online when that's where everything is? Think about it buddy, I know you are all sorts of p.o. at Chris, but think about what you are saying.

Anyone that attacks our hobby signs me up to making it my business.

That will take a while my man!!!
My whole point to this situation and my reason for ever posting in this thread is because CERTAIN people just do not know when to shut up. I'm speaking specifically of Jim. With the type of treatment he gets from the fauna elite it seems as though he's bucking for CHIEF MODERATOR and or LEAD FAUNA ATTORNEY.
Mike, if you and other people have fallen into the pit of Jim's nonsense make believe "I'm smart" talk, then I just ask you to step back and look around.
This guy gets a pass in all the threads he posts in, with his nonsense, spite, blasphemy, and ridicule.
As far as being taken by Chris, I have not. I actually got a good deal, but Jim tried to "spin" that comment of mine as well.

You see Mike if this thread dies down then Jim has nothing to do. If he (sorry I'm not talking directly to you Jim) loses this thread to the depths of the BOI then he has to find someone/something else to whine about. This (BOI) is SOME people's lives. They live, breath, eat, sleep BOI. It's sad, really sad.

Oh, and just for the record, my business has exploded even in spite of the TSE het scandal.

 

[Chameleon Company]

Greg,
I tried being polite. It was a wasted effort. Not the only thing wasted here.