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TW International Wyatt in Texas

Wyatt said:
Hey Chuck, sorry I do not pay attention to crap until I step in it!!! LOL Have fun talking to yourself.
Click to expand...

Oh I'm not talking to you, I'm talking about you. And I know you don't pay attention. Thats half your problem also. You're not just a scumbag, you're a dumb scumbag.

There might be a third problem also. Its quite obvious you are reading my posts if you take time to respond to me. So you're lying about that.

Therefore you are a dishonest dumb scumbag.

But thanks for saying you're sorry. You seem like a real sorry sort of guy.
 
lanceheads said:
Jen,
Well, virus' can be dormant for a long period of time and also it may take months for it to manifest in a snake.
However, you have no quarantine procedure. Bringing in any newly purchased snake from outside of your established collection is asking for trouble.

If you "have" to bring newly acquired snakes into your bedroom, don't crank the heat up to 80! Use heat tape underneath the cages to the desired temps and they and you will be fine.

Randal Berry
Click to expand...

My house is kept at 70 degrees. Even if the heat cable in the rack is at 95, it will still keep things very cool in the rest of the tub not over the hot spot -- leaving things open to bacterial RI's (what I am always trying to avoid).
 
I forgot to add that I'm keeping my room at 80 degrees right now because the het clown and the other 2 sick females are in there and they need to be kept entirely warm if they're going to get through this.

And since Wyatt likes links to my posts over at TSK, here's one about the big female that is now basically dying:

http://ballpython.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=5007

She was doing fantastic and breeding like a champ on November 13th -- now she's hardly moving and just laying in her tub wheezing.
 
Also forgot this:

Yes, my quarantine procedures aren't great -- not like some of you who have the benefit of an extra room, an extra house level, or an extra building. But I do the best I can with what I've got, and in the past it has never proven to be a problem. That WC female that came in sick 9 months ago was quarantined in the exact same way -- yet her partner that came in with her never got sick and neither did any other animals in my collection. Maybe that was luck, and maybe I just was unlucky this time. Who knows. The fact is, this all came down when I recieved the het clown from Wyatt, and now I'm dealing with a massive problem. My vet did a necropsy on my dead female and got results from the labs he sent out. He told me that it was a virus, that it was airborne, that the het had to have been sick before she was shipped, and the cold shipping delay was the catalyst. So that's what I am going by -- I'm not making all of this up or speculating here.
 
Looks like Wyatt's BIG plan to nail Jen with her own posts didn't work.

Why do you think he stipulated to Jen that she correspond with him privately in emails if anything was going to be done to make this right?

Because he is a manipulating conman and a coward. A TRUE SCUMBAG.

Does it bother you when I call you a scumbag, Wyatt? Scumbag.
 
It's a tough lesson Jen but if you can't quarentine in separate quarters, rooms at the least, you really aren't doing a complete quarentine.

There are airborn viruses. We all know of them and we all hope to never run into them. You were unlucky this time and got one in your room. You are partly at fault for this as you should know the only way to REALLY quarentine animals is to have them totally separate, not just across the room from eachother.

I DO have a tough time thinking wyatt didn't know there was a possibility of disease being present in that female. I find it VERY difficult to believe that she was the first to come down with it. I would be VERY surprised in he had not others die in the recent past.

What do you say wyatt? Have you had ANY deaths in the last few months?
 
a little advice i would give, and i am no pro but work with fairly large collections. but if you have a virus the only way for the snake to defeat it is to bring the temps up well above 80 with a hotter area around 92+. you are going to have to make the hosts environment unsuitable. you have to look at it like this your breeding season is over, and concentrate on saving your animals. i know it sounds harsh, but i am sure your collection means more to you than babies from a few

85 ambient minimum and start shooting them sub q with saline if they will not drink.
not picking sides. i think you are facing tough conditions based on where you live. they are going to need humidity to counter the high temps.
i know you are spending a ton on vets, but how many of them have real world practice in this matter. if you have another one die send it to dr stahl.
i hope this is not garbled i am on pain meds from a car wreck
 
What a Mess!

Well,
The good news is I returned from my cruise to the Caribean with no problems. I just checked my reptile room a while ago and the pastel male is healthy breathing normal. However another snake that was caged near bye now has the URI. I am glad the carrier snake is now healthy. It took six treatments of the Baytril and Fortaz that Stahl gave me and had recommended. He told me humidity was very good for the URI jen so I would suggest doing something to get the moisture in the cage up. I actually put my guy in a Vision cage with an undercage heat pad. Then stuck a good size waterbowl in the center and checked the water regularly. Plus I was soaking him every night in warm water. The snake I believe weighed around 900 grams was getting .4 cc Baytril and like .15 cc Fortaz. I just started the other guy with the left over meds. I am going to soak him shortly and see if I can knock this one out. Jen I still believe this all came from Wyatt. I see there are a crap load of posts and I have yet to read all of them. Later Mike
 
wes i dont know if wyatt has had any problems in the last couple months, but i had done a deal with him years ago. and i did one with him a couple of months ago for 6k or so in animals. they are still seperated from my main collection , but are seemingly of the best health. growing great and all around some of the best looking balls i have brought in this year.

of course i am interested in what is happening to her collection. god knows i do not want it in mine, but if it was as deadly as claimed i should have lost something in my quarintine room. i did have animals in there i bought from another breeder with light ri's. they would have been very easily killed by such a virus. granted the virus could have come later, but i tend to believe that the animals i have would have been exposed to the same time frame.
just my experience. i hope the best for everyone
howard
 
HRoss said:
wes i dont know if wyatt has had any problems in the last couple months, but i had done a deal with him years ago. and i did one with him a couple of months ago for 6k or so in animals. they are still seperated from my main collection , but are seemingly of the best health. growing great and all around some of the best looking balls i have brought in this year.

of course i am interested in what is happening to her collection. god knows i do not want it in mine, but if it was as deadly as claimed i should have lost something in my quarintine room. i did have animals in there i bought from another breeder with light ri's. they would have been very easily killed by such a virus. granted the virus could have come later, but i tend to believe that the animals i have would have been exposed to the same time frame.
just my experience. i hope the best for everyone
howard
Click to expand...
Nailing down the time is what I'm after here. Determining when it first showed up will help a lot. It's a shame wyatt can't really be trusted. We'll just have to hope he does the right thing.
 
First off Wes, everything is doing great here at my facility.. Been selling a lot of female adults and babies. One person of which Greg Powers talked about earlier still has a 3000 gram adult female pastel that he has on a breeders loan to from the original buyer and has now been with him for over 6 months. In fact he offered her $2000 to buy her just the other day.

Mike,
Good to here about your male. But I still can't relate the two in the fact that Jen stated that after an in depth necropsy that it was sure enough a virus that was incurable by strong antibiotics and yours was treated and cured with Baytril and Fortaz which are well known antibiotics. So when you find the hidden link between your bacterial infection known as an RI and the highly contagious VIRUS that I obviously sent Jennifer that wipped out all those snakes, including the ones that died before mine even arrived then please let me know.

Howard,
Glad to here those snakes are doing great. I really miss that pastel ghost, he was killer. Hope to see those Super Pastel Ghost this year and get a crack at one back.

Thanks,
Wyatt
 
I'm a bit lost on the time line~

JenHarrison said:
The WC snakes were bought back in FEBRUARY -- 7 months prior to your het clown arriving. The one arrived sick and died 6 days after showing up, before I could do anything -- hence why I said I have never had to deal with an RI. The second one is no longer in my collection and hasn't been for many months -- she laid her eggs, fed, and was just fine, then I sold her.
Click to expand...

Do you have contact with that buyer? Is that snake still okay?


JenHarrison said:
The post regarding Dizzy developing her RI was October 2nd -- your het clown arrived to me on September 28th. Last I checked, September 28th comes before October 2nd. Dizzy developed her RI symptoms on September 29th -- I started her on Tylan, and Kari had told me that she should have shown improvment within 24-48 hours. By October 2nd, she was getting worse, which is when I started her on Baytril. That is the same day your het clown female exploded with a full blown respiratory problem.
Click to expand...

Okay~ so Dizzy was YOUR snake in YOUR collection~ and she came down with symptom of a disease she caught from the new snake ONE day after the new snake arrived? But the new snake that was subjected to the stress of poor shipping did not develop symptoms of the disease she was carrying and infecting others with for another week?

I'm missing something here
 
Wes,
What time do you want to know about?? What right thing are you hoping that I do? I am not going to take any responsibility for this at all. I have sold hundreds of snakes from the same collection and as you just read and also that was posted earlier that they are all doing healthy and fine. Even Howards post of having some from me from years ago. Sorry, but I showed you the proof I need to be convinced that this so called virus evolved in a collection of WC Adults that obviously have died and the plain fact that I don't think you can quite say that you believe all of this from someone that state clearly that she had never seen this before and yet lied because it just happened to one of her WC adults and also to the fact that on Oct 26, 200 tried to purchase more snakes from me that I posted and shown here. So I feel better about mysel and Howard Ross has just purchased another breeder male from me so I am going to focus on my other satisfied customers at this time and leave all of this fun BOI stuff to the proffessional.

Thanks,
Wyatt
 
Howard,
Your tracking number is 30961517440 via DHL and should arrive by 10:30 AM. PLease call me as soon as they arrive and I shall do the same.


Thanks,
Wyatt

sept 19, 2007 is from the email header. it was the fastest way i could get you my timeline

there is your time line on my transaction.
and as i mentioned perfect health. obviously things could have changed but you asked for a time line and this is mine. i do not know how many others would get on here and even admit to taking in animals with this thread going, but i have no reason to believe them to be infected. i will be dropping there temps in the quarintine room instead of my breeding room as a precaution. but i really have no worries
 
Jen -

Just to weed out some possibilities ...

1. The WC girl that died - was it definitely and RI and was she necropsied - what were the results?

2. Is it safe to assume that the new animals you recently got were quarantined in the same rack as those WCs? How many of your animals since the WCs have been safely quarantined in that racks?

3. When did you start dropping temps for breeding?

4. Can you have the labs that have been working with this virus test it to see how long it will remain viable on a standard surface?
 
Cheryl,
Hey girl how is it going? How are those babies you got from me ( what has it been 5 years ago )? I do beleive you raised them up and bred them did'nt you? There are more holes in this story than a slice of swiss cheese and I have been asking the same questions since the begining, and all this stuff just backs up what I said when I stated that Jen had told me about the snake that was sick even before she got my het. Now finding the post in TSK forums and the time line from all of that sick Dizzy stuff and her going through the Tylan regimen and then buying Baytril on Oct 2 just confirms what I said at first. Your right, I like how my snake got hers sick and killed it in one day but yet mine fed fine and did not show S/S for several days to weeks. In fact the vet said that the cold weather exacerbated this so called virus and that the snakes in her colletions immune systems were just shocked by it must have came in with the virus. But yet mine was so cold that she fed from the get go and killed all of the other well established balls, right??

Wyatt
 
Snakes are doing well wyatt~ and yes it's been 5 years ago now. I've not proved either girl to be a het or not yet. The Poss het axanthic did not prove to the male~ but her and her daughters are now on loan to a 100% het VPI so hopefully we will prove something soon. The poss het albino has not laid a viable clutch yet (MY fault~ she laid a clutch two years ago but I had a malfunction in a rack and chilled her too much while gravid so the eggs were bad). Hopefully prove her this year~ she is breeding my albino male.

The animals I got from you were and still are perfectly healthy. That was 5 years ago so I didn't feel right weighing in on this issue. I am sorry to see it and hope you can work this out. I think your onto a timeline issue that is mighty suspicious......but I also think you need to be a bit more carefull not to rise to some of the bait. Just stick to the facts as you know them.
 
The post regarding Dizzy developing her RI was October 2nd -- your het clown arrived to me on September 28th.
Last I checked, September 28th comes before October 2nd.
Click to expand...
Dizzy developed her RI symptoms on September 29th -- I started her on Tylan, and Kari had told me that she should have shown improvment within 24-48 hours. By October 2nd, she was getting worse, which is when I started her on Baytril. That is the same day your het clown female exploded with a full blown respiratory problem.
Click to expand...

Jen,

Regrettably and in biological terms it doesn't work that way. Depending on her build-up immunity and thus the resistance to infection a given snake can be infected before but show the symptoms later than a recent arrival, particulalry if we are talking about 4-5 days time span. By the same token contracting a URI in 24-h by a healthy animal that has been in "relatively" close contact with an infected animal is also unlikely; it will take more time. While you can't rule out that the problem came from Wyatt's animal you can't be absolutely certain that it did either. Sorry the Tylan did not work for you this time.

Regards
 
Jen -

I was really trying to figure a time line on the arrival of the animals and the illness - so I went back to check some of your posts to see about some of this stuff - and on the TSK forum you stated after Dizzy died:

Posted: Fri Oct 19, 2007 7:56 pm
I'm really not happy about it. I was contacted by a guy that bought another female from the same kid I bought Dizzy from, and his girl developed an RI out of nowhere and died too. I find it odd...


Am I missing something here? :eek:

I'm trying to help you out girl - but it's not adding up??
 
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