TW International Wyatt in Texas

[LakesideBoas]

Believe it or not I agree with most of your post, Randy. I'm not ripping Tosha a new one either. None of us are 'giving her a pass' (I don't think) but I personally would like her to post here again and I don't see that happening if we continue in this vane.

For what it's worth, Jen is paying the ultimate price for her inability to effectively quarantine her animals. I guess I don't feel anybody needs a good swift kick in the arse when they're down. I don't expect us to moon over her or anything like that, but have a little tact.

I would like to see her post the path results and the vet report. Perhaps she'll do that soon. Perhaps she doesn't have a scanner. I know mine just took a big doo-doo the other day.

The truth is, we don't know what the truth is. And we're not likely to find out by bashing Jen.

Jen has been a member here for a while now and I would like to think we wouldn't behave like a pack of hyenas to one of our own who's not having the greatest time right now. She didn't rip anyone off, she didn't demand anything from the seller, I had the impression that she posted here primarily as a 'heads up' and a 'What The Heck's going on-help!'.

I guess I've degenerated into rambling now, so I will let you all get back to your regularly scheduled program.

 

[Otter_23]

What free pass did Jen get?

She admitted to her quarantine practices and took responsibility for her other snakes getting sick (ultimate price to pay).

She jumped the gun on posting that the virus came from the het clown (she stated that is what the vet suspected).

She is trying to figure out where the virus came from and suspects Wyatt and is working on trying to prove it but I have no doubt that if it comes up the virus came from somewhere else or she can not prove for fact it was the het clown she will admit to that as well.

With these mistakes she made she has backed off of posting more about Wyatt she has accepted responsibility for her animals, she has asked for nothing in compensation. She didn't sweep it under the rug and is taking a lead role in finding out more about this virus and the risk of costing her much more. She has lost a significant amount of money in animals. The biggest issue it seems to many is the timeline but the timeline didn't kill her animals, the timeline didn't infect her collection it came from somewhere. She was hasty in posting that it came from Wyatt but has since backed off and Wyatt has sold other sick animals so although she may be wrong and she isn't completely shooting in the dark either. I think the biggest mistake in regards to that is she assumes it came from Wyatt which is a possibility.

 

[ToshaMc]

The only thing I am concerned with is getting to the bottom of this virus – that is why when there were discrepancies on her timeline that she presented on the BOI I went digging through her other posts. Hoping I could find out as much info as I could before discussing it further with my vet – these animals and their health and well being are very important to me so I wanted to get the facts in line. And yes the time line can be crucial to figuring out the lifecycle of the virus – which is why I pressed for accuracy. Unfortunately I found that she wasn’t exactly truthful – don’t shoot the messenger it’s certainly not my fault – I’m not going to overlook it either – if she is going to fudge on taking her animals to the vet, their treatment, their weight, etc. etc. (and there are a lot of “fudges”) then what else is there?

Whether or not you want to address the issue is up to you – perhaps it’s just easier to chalk it all up to Wyatt bad – Jen good - end of story – lets lynch him and not even consider the value of the truth! If it were only about Jen and Wyatt – then that’s the course to take. But to me this isn’t about them – it’s about the virus and figuring out what can be done to prevent or treat it. This takes priority over the other stuff.

Like I said I’ll wait for the reports to get posted and go from there.

And I understand in light of what I’ve brought forth you feel the need to defend Jen by attacking me. I guess by bringing Katie up you thought you could deflect. So here it is again – yes - I thought she (Katie) had been duped into buying bogus hets from Raymond and was reselling them – because I outed the hets she was forced to sell them as normals – yes I felt sorry for her, yes I bought some of her supposed hets - yes I purchased female normals and got male normals – this proved to me she was scamming as well. I also wanted to get my hands on the Raymond Harrison paperwork so that I could compare it to the Bearded Pets paperwork – yep they matched – that in the process I saved others from buying bad hets and helped out several people doesn’t matter quite as much as the fact that I, like a lot of others bought some of the “hets” as normals after she discounted them. I buy CH babies and aberrants in the hopes that they prove out as well - I am most certainly an unethical bad guy.

 

[HerpOly]

Why are a lot of people ready to crucify anyone that has the slightest variation in opinion other than Wyatt is total scum, and Jen is completely right? Jen's story confused me as well with information that seemed to contradict itself at times. The stress of the situation could have caused her to mix up time lines, and such, or the gang mentality could have incited her to all of a sudden to determine this new snake infected her collection. The truth may never be determined. This virus that infected Jen's collection seems very contagious. If Wyatt does have this plague, others that have bought animals from him should be losing snakes already or very soon. There are whispers that some very big ball python breeders have this plague as well and are losing considerable numbers of animals. It is devastating for a young mother like Jen to lose such a substantial part of her collection, and a truly sad event. I believe it is only the first of what may soon be a common story unfortunately.

Jumping on Tosha, and Anthony because they are uncertain that the facts are completely known is wrong. I was also confused by Jen's many posts in numerous locations. I doubt I would do a deal over the internet with Wyatt, but to say he is a COMPLETE scumbag is not proven to me 100%. I do believe he has handled some deals very poorly lately, but to not buy from others that do deal with him is really overboard. That would be like not buying from Dr Owens because he did a deal with that Ed Brateen, who has out right ripped a guy off( regardless of the victim's mental state.) Instead of being vigilantes out to lynch every one that has a questionable deal, and an arrogant attitude, look over the facts again. This whole saga did not add up for me as well.

 

[ajc]

He wasn't threatening you, he was just stating a fact. I am one of those people he speaks of that wouldn't buy from someone who knowingly supports a scumbag.

Anyone else care to add their name after mine so that this shmuck understands that we just don't talk the talk around here but that we actually walk the walk?

Anyone?

This shmuck? Wow...and you are?

I hate to break it to you big guy, but I think my business might, just maybe be able to hang on without your support. But don't let me stop you from doing your thing bro...walk the walk. lol

 

[Wilomn]

This shmuck? Wow...and you are?

I hate to break it to you big guy, but I think my business might, just maybe be able to hang on without your support. But don't let me stop you from doing your thing bro...walk the walk. lol

Your business tony, and whether or not it needs honest people to support it, is NOT the topic of this thread.

Please stay on topic here.

 

[ajc]

OK, last post here for me.

1. I didn't end up buying the snake because I saw that someone else got a snake from Wyatt with an RI. I can't take that risk.

2. Jen's posts were confusing, showed a lack of understanding and just struck me as being ill-informed. Nothing personal against Jen, though. She seems like a great person, just confused and rightfully disappointed about her situation.

3. The reason this thread is hard to follow is because of the biased and unnecessary posts of losers like "critical bill" (Chuck Kimmel).

These guys have no life, so they have nothing better to do than try to play judge and jury in matters that don't concern them. They have no facts to add, they generally have very little experience in the reptile hobby and their posts only make it difficult to discern what really happened.

Again, shame on you guys...you've turned a very valuable resource into a three ring circus and made it exceedingly difficult for legitimate herpers to utilize.

 

[ajc]

Your business tony, and whether or not it needs honest people to support it, is NOT the topic of this thread.

Please stay on topic here.

Oh give me a break. Don't try to twist my words with your "honest people" garbage and try to make it sound like my customers aren't honest. You're sick.

And secondly, who are you to tell me to keep it on topic? You have over 5,600 posts here...if anyone needs to be chastized for polluting this forum with meaningless nonsense, a look in the mirror might be in order.

Get a life.

 

[Pink Lady Exotics]

When I lived in Texas, my collection was a lot bigger than it was now. I bought and sold many snakes, and right before I moved, I sold a large chunk of my collection in order to pay for my move. So yes, I have shipped well over one hundred snakes. And yes, as previously stated, my quarantine in Texas was way better than it was here. I had 4 bedrooms there -- one was the snake room, one was the Q room (as well as the guest bedroom).

I have already taken full responsibility for this getting as bad as it has due to my improper quarantine. I'm not sure what the point is in rehashing it over and over again -- there is nothing more we can get from it. It was a costly mistake, which I am now paying for. It gets thrown in my face every single time I held one of my dead snakes' bodies, when I had to euthanize Amazon to keep her from suffering any more, and every time I have to check on the het g-stripe to make sure she is still alive. I am well aware of it, thank you. It was a damn hard lesson to learn. However, method of transmission has yet to be officially nailed down yet, so it may come out that it wouldn't have mattered where she had been kept in the beginning. From everything I have read, the rhabdovirus has to be spread via contact -- bites or touch. Considering that the het clown never touched a single other snake or shared a single surface with any other snake, and the rest have never touched each other either -- other than the breeding pairs (but Amazon, Lily, Lola and Sahara have never bred and therefore never touched another snake). No one has bitten each other either, so that leaves the answer to how it got spread wide open and unknown. It could be airborne, it could be carried on my clothes, in my hair, on my cats' fur as they go around the house -- nobody knows right now, and that is what we're trying to find out.

When I did I ever say a test was done and it wasn't? I said the het clown had a mucuous sample taken and looked at on a slide -- nothing was present. The vet could not get a big enough sample to do a culture on -- which later made sense when the necropsy revealed that the vast majority of infection fluid was outside the lung and not inside. Go look at the 2nd vet's receipt -- the charge for the slide sample is on there.

I will not have a vet report to post until all is said and done, at that point he said he will type up a summary from beginning to end that includes all analysis, necropsies, pathology, treatments, etc.

I still don't see how posts I have made on other forums contradict anything here. I have repeatedly gone back to them all and read them, and the timelines and info within those match everything here.

I also have not asked for a single thing from Wyatt. I have not said "I blame you and demand compensation for this entire mess". I said I currently feel that he is responsible, as does my vet and his associates. Right now, we are continuing to work on getting information and finishing sorting this all out with as many tests as possible. Will I ever be able to prove that it came in with the het clown? Don't know yet. But I should be able to get a better idea once we find out the incubation period on this virus. If it comes out that it came from one of my other snakes, then you're damn right I'll be posting that info and apologizing to Wyatt. Until then, my opinion remains. I have also not called him names -- I feel that is unnecessary. If others do, that is not my problem and I will not be held responsible for it.

 

[BryonsBoas]

Oh give me a break. Don't try to twist my words with your "honest people" garbage and try to make it sound like my customers aren't honest. You're sick.

And secondly, who are you to tell me to keep it on topic? You have over 5,600 posts here...if anyone needs to be chastized for polluting this forum with meaningless nonsense, a look in the mirror might be in order.

Get a life.

That would be because he's mod.

 

[LakesideBoas]

Anthony...

And secondly, who are you to tell me to keep it on topic?

Sorry, Anthony, you know I luv ya, dude, but Wes does indeed have the right to tell anyone to keep it on topic, as well as do I and many others. The privilege and responsibility comes with our membership.

I think this thread is just chock full of emotions. I'm as guilty as anyone, so don't think I'm not including myself.

I don't feel anything one way or the other about Wyatt. The way he behaved here and the fact that at least two of his customers have had/ are having animals die that came from him, leads me to believe that, for me, purchasing from him is not an option, as it was for you.

I think we should all just sit back and see how this unfolds. I would really like to know more about this virus. Regardless wether anyone believes Jen's timeline of events and whatnot the fact remains she's got something lethal running rampant with her collection. I would like to think we would all at least be curious about something so potentially devastating to our chosen hobby.

I was raised like this :"There, but for the grace of God, go I". I would like the reassurance that if, God forbid, something like this were to happen to me in the future, that I could come here with the problem without having those I trusted blaming me.

You are all good people here. I consider most of you my friends and the rest are better than acquaintances. This is a small but diverse comunity and we treat each other with respect.

Everyone wants to know what's going on here. I am sure if we are patient we will find out.

 

[Dennis Hultman]

Jen, I decided days ago when you posted that your quarantine procedures were sub par and that you are responsible for the spreed that I wouldn't rehash any of that and would try to support you uncovering the facts of what has happened. Regardless of the transaction here, I would like to see support for you so all of us can understand what has happened and to benefit the rest of the community. But, Jen, I can't help but to ask this question.

It is actually called Rhabdovirus. Sorry about the misspelling, it was a voicemail so it sounded like Raptovirus. I can do some research on it now. I just spent 20 minutes talking to Dr. Gordon about it, and the virologist couldn't tell him which collections they had it documented in or what cities they were in, but I can give him all the info on the seller and they can determine if he was one of them or near one of them. They need tissue, blood, and fluid samples from the 3 recently deceased females, and they are transferring the samples from the big girl as well. If the results come back that it is indeed the rhabdovirus and the genetics match, they can link it to the documented virus in Texas, proving that that is where it came from. Considering that I don't have a single animal from Texas other than the het clown, that pretty much nails it down. Once we confirm it, we will be taking blood samples from each one of my remaining snakes to do a titer and determine if any more have it in their systems (checking for antibodies), so they can be culled and put into quarantine for observation and separation from the rest of the collection.

When I lived in Texas, my collection was a lot bigger than it was now. I bought and sold many snakes, and right before I moved, I sold a large chunk of my collection in order to pay for my move. So yes, I have shipped well over one hundred snakes. And yes, as previously stated, my quarantine in Texas was way better than it was here. I had 4 bedrooms there -- one was the snake room, one was the Q room (as well as the guest bedroom).[/COLOR]

Thank you for any clarification.

 

[Dennis Hultman]

Jen, I decided days ago when you posted that your quarantine procedures were sub par and that you are responsible for the spread that I wouldn't rehash any of that and would try to support you uncovering the facts of what has happened. Regardless of the transaction here, I would like to see support for you so all of us can understand what has happened and to benefit the rest of the community. But, Jen, I can't help but to ask this question.

Thank you for any clarification.

I forgot to ask the question but the quotes should be sufficient to understand what I'm asking.

 

[critical bill]

Looks like I got Caponetto's panties in a knot.

Heh heh.............

 

[Wilomn]

Looks like I got Caponetto's panties in a knot.

Heh heh.............

Topic Chuck, topic.

Same as for tony.

 

[LakesideBoas]

Chuck, was that really necessary??

 

[critical bill]

Chuck, was that really necessary??

Nah, but I decide to write it anyway.

But anyway...back on topic.

So wyatt just lost Anthony's business. Thats sweet.

 

[Pink Lady Exotics]

Dennis, very valid question. I lived in Texas, but never once bought an animal from anyone down there (aside from the first snake I had gotten from Wyatt which I no longer have). All of my animals were purchased online and shipped to me. Also, among the animals I have now, only 6 of them were with me in Texas. None of those have been sick with this virus.

 

[Cat_72]

Other than the question Dennis asked (which as Jen said, was a very valid question), or if someone comes up with something else that hasn't already been asked and answered multiple times....none of this bickering is accomplishing a damn thing. Nothing more really can or will be answered until there is more vet info.

For the sake of BOTH parties involved, until there is more legitimate info to go on, why don't we just give it a rest at this point? I'm sure Wyatt doesn't want to see his name plastered at the top of the BOI any more than Jen wants to answer the same questions for the 83rd time. Jen will post path reports and whatever else is pertinent as soon as she gets them.....what else is there to say that hasn't already been said a hundred times?

 

[ravensgait]

Maggie I haven't seen anyone even suggest that they were not interested in finding out what this virus is . I have seen people ask Jen to clear up some inconsistencies that have not yet been cleared up. It's like Dennis's question above IE she says she doesn't have any snakes from Texas yet brought the animals she has up from Texas when she moved. Or she never had an animal with an RI yet had one last spring and well there are a number of other things that have been brought up here and not cleared up ETC ETC ..

She still feels the Virus came from Damion yet anyone with much experience with Virus's in snakes knows it takes longer than 24 hours, then she says the animal never came in contact with any of her others ETC ETC .. Which makes the chances of the animal from Damion being the carrier so close to nill that I'd bet money that it didn't infect the other animals, yeah there is a real remote chance I'm wrong but I wouldn't bet that way. Yet Damion is blamed and she has provided what proof of this?? Wonder how you'd feel on the subject if the animal had come from you and she was without any proof claiming your animal made hers sick. Lets not forget that this animal from Damion was stuck in transit for a few days in cold weather. We know Damion sent an animal that showed RI symptoms when it arrived ETC Heck I doubt I've sold near the number of animals he has and you guessed it I had one arrive sick at the other end, granted I keep arboreals that are touchier but I'd guess it has happened to a number of people who sell animals..

I will say this if it were my name she had thrown out here like she has Damion's I don't think I'd have taken it very well at all . Lately we've seen to many of these post where the OP jumps the gun and post here before they have their waterfowl lined up.



Mark,, when people who ask tough questions of Jen are jumped on how else does it look than trying to giver her a pass. Losing animals is no excuse for trashing someones reputation without solid proof.. Hell I lost a good friend last week(yeah I did have a horse die) who meant a lot more to me than the forty plus grand he was worth and more than every snake I've ever known. You deal with it ! and I can tell you this I can tell you what happened from the time I knew he was sick till a few hours later when I pushed down the the plunger of the needle to end his suffering and everything else that happened that day. So to me losing a snake doesn't excuse blasting someone without proof and doesn't give you a pass.

To be honest the longer this thread goes on the stronger the odor gets.. Randy